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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-11 07:17 PM
Original message
Israel ranks 145 on Global Peace Index
The Global Peace Index issued its annual report Thursday, and according to its authors, its results reflect the dramatic changes sweeping through the Middle East.

Published by the Institute for Economics and Peace and Vision of Humanity, the index noted an overall drop in world peace for the third consecutive year.

---

Global Peace Index data indicated that 29 countries are now under bigger threat of terror, and 33 countries found themselves prone to violent riots over the past year.

The Global Peace Index crowned Iceland the world's most peaceful country, while the dubious honor of being named the world's most violent and chaotic country went to Somalia which ranked at the bottom of the list 153.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4074614,00.html
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-11 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. Israeli is lower than Libya? I guess this index is BS.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-11 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Above Pakistan and Russia, and Somalia of course, but below Libya and Chad.
"Israel did not fare so well and was ranked 145 above Pakistan and Russia, but below Libya and Chad. Israel was ranked 144 in the 2010 GPI, and 119 in 2007."
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JonScholar Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-11 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. It depends on if the index accounts for the Arab Spring n/t
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JonScholar Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-11 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. Reminder: Israel ranks 86 of 178 on the Reporters Without Borders Press Freedom Index
http://en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2010,1034.html

That's behind virtually every other civilized nation.
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Purveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-11 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. 145? That high, eh? I'll be damned. eom
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-11 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Well, Pelton, in 2003, put it in the same range, I think.
Edited on Thu May-26-11 07:52 PM by bemildred
And if anything it's safer now then back then (for the moment).

http://www.amazon.com/Robert-Peltons-Worlds-Dangerous-Places/dp/0060011602
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-11 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
7. Comparison to recent years are interesting too, especially when
you look at some of the commentary from a U.S. official at the time.

From 2008: The United States slipped from 96th last year, but was still ahead of foe Iran which ranked 105th. It, however, lagged Belarus, Cuba, South Korea, Chile, Libya and others which were listed as more peaceful.

Iraq, which the United States invaded in 2003, leading to the toppling of Saddam Hussein, ranked lowest on the index. Afghanistan was also in the bottom five, along with Sudan, Somalia and Israel.

The bright light Sean McCormick: ..to realize a more peaceful and prosperous world, "often times, you have to do difficult things and a lot of times, people don't agree with them. They don't like them." in full: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3545840,00.html


He was actually on the payroll for this insightful excuse.





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King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-11 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. As with most things,


Israel ranks at the bottom:
Peace
War
Most despised Nation
Worst nation
Most resolutions against it.
Most rude nation
Most hated nation
Most uncivilized nation
Most greedy nation
Most money Grubbing nation

been like that for its whole life,and most of the ancestors and cousins abroad would say its been for 1000's of years for Bnei Israel !


My favorite quote from that Jewish Genius from South Africa (UK and Israel too )


If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.
Abba Eban

(Born: February 2, 1915 )

Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/a/abba_eban.html#ixzz1NW01wUV3
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here_is_to_hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-11 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Its sad isnt it?
Hmmm, poor little Israel, all alone with her advanced fighter jets and nukes galore....
Such a victim.






Free Palestine.
Now.
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King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-11 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
29. The price of Chedder Cheese dropped by 5c / lb in China last week


Which has about the same amount of relevance

to what I posted as what your reply had.
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JonScholar Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-11 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. What's that old saying? If one person calls you an ass ignore him. If 100 people call you an ass...
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King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-11 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. yea throughout history


its been way more than 100 people.

There is nothing new under the sun.
Prov. Everything that is happening now has happened before. (Biblical.) Jill: The newspaper today is shocking. Three prominent politicians have been convicted of fraud. Jane: That's not shocking. It only proves that there's nothing new under the sun.


http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/There+Is+Nothing+New+Under+the+Sun
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JonScholar Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-11 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Stop conflating Israel with Judaism
Because Israel's war crimes are an embarrassment to Judaism and the Jewish community. And stop insulting those who were massacred during the holocaust by using them as rhetorical human shields for Israel's war crimes
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-11 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. You just did
In the same post you tell another poster to stop conflating Israel with Judaism and then you do so immediately in the next sentence by saying that the actions of Israel are an embarrassment to the Jewish community.
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JonScholar Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-11 03:22 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. *yawn* over your head.
Edited on Fri May-27-11 03:30 AM by JonScholar
First of all, saying Israel is an embarrassment to the Jewish community Isn't conflating Israel and Judaism, Secondly, Israel is an embarrassment to the Jewish community specifically because it's repeatedly made up to be a representation of Judaism. Why don't you stop trying for "gotcha" moments and contribute something useful to the discussion?
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-11 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Okay, with that said then every Muslim state is an embarassment to Muslims....
Edited on Fri May-27-11 07:54 AM by shira
You don't have a problem with that statement, do you?

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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-11 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #14
22. Wrong on all counts
Edited on Fri May-27-11 09:41 AM by oberliner
Of course saying Israel is "an embarrassment to the Jewish community" is conflating Israel and Judaism.

There is no "gotcha" moment happening here - just trying to make you aware of the contradictions you might not even realize you are making.

If you actually do believe that Israel is "repeatedly made up to be a representation of Judaism." then surely you could understand why some of the animosity directed at Israel by some folks may have something to do with their feelings toward Judaism.

I would strongly encourage you to take some time to look at these questions through an alternate lens.

It could go a long way towards encouraging a useful discussion with those who may disagree with you.

Up to this point, during your very brief but active tenure here on DU and in this forum, that does not appear to be something you are interested in.

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JonScholar Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-11 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. I'm fine with looking at things through an alternate lense
But I will not bend backwards, as some have, to shoehorn Israel into the role of a polish Jew and it's critics into the role of some nasty Germans. Yes there is some level of anti-semetism involved in the conflict. There are two points to be made about this:

1. Israel and it's supporters confuse the issue by claiming Israel represents Judaism. So while a anti-semetic reaction is unjustifiable, it isn't unpredictable.

2. Even if we operate on the assumption that Israel critics are largely anti-semetic (which I would argue the opposite, that the vast majority have no particular animosity towards Judaism), there really is only one relevant factor: are the criticisms correct? Are they factually accurate? And a great many are. The alleged motivations of those putting forth the criticisms, don't have much bearing on the legitimacy of the criticisms themselves
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-11 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. Let's try to have a reasonable discussion
I am completely in favor of that and would love to discuss any issues with you in a respectful and polite manner.

I don't think I understand what you mean by "shoehorn(ing) Israel into the role of a polish (Polish?) Jew and it's critics into the role of some nasty Germans"

If I am understanding correctly, you are suggesting that those who are critical of Israel are described as being sympathetic to the Nazis. If anyone makes such comparisons, I would strongly oppose those statements.

In my experience, however, I have noticed that Israel itself has been compared by some (even on this site) to Nazi Germany - I would hope you would find such comparisons to be objectionable as well.

With respect to your other points, there is obviously a relationship of sorts between Israel and Judaism; however, it is ridiculous, in my view, to suggest that a Jewish person living in Paris or New Jersey ought to in any way feel personally responsible (to the point that they would be ashamed) for the actions of the Israeli government.

Too many times, I have read of people attacking (or planning to attack) Jewish institutions and locations outside of Israel as a means of protesting actions of the Israeli government. This puts Jewish people outside of Israel in a difficult position - that forces many of them, in a sense, to reap the consequences of actions that they are in no way responsible for.

With regard to your other point, I think it is important to separate those who criticise Israel for legitimate reasons and those who do so because they are anti-semitic. I do not think the test ought to be whether the criticisms are true or not. An anti-semite like David Duke leveling charges against Israel, some of which might be true, ought to be looked at askance considering his positions on other issues and where his criticism is coming from.

As to what constitutes "true" criticism - I think it is important to note tone and context when reviewing comments made with respect to this conflict. The truth is there is a lot about the Israeli government (especially, in my mind, the current one) worth criticizing. Too often, however, there are elements of that criticism that cross over into something else.

Anyway, those are my views on these subjects. Thanks for taking the time to consider them.

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JonScholar Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-11 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Alright, lets do that
There's a common tendency among Israel's supporters, to portray the state as a "Jew among nations." That much like the Jews of Europe in the early 20th century, Israel faces tremendous criticisms, not because they are earned, but because Israel is subject to prejudice beyond its control. That's what I take issue with. Israel comes under criticism because it is deserving of criticism, because it commits terrible crimes, not because it's a Jewish nation.

Now you're arguing that Israel should not be so attached to the Jewish community that Jews should feel ashamed of Israel's actions. I completely agree. I'm not saying that it should be. The reality, however, is that Israel has connected itself to the Jewish community. It claims to represent the Jewish people in particularly sensitive ways (claiming itself to be god's promised land for Jews). If you're opposed to that, you should direct that criticism at people like King_David, who are deliberately conflating what should be two different groups. As for people who attack groups unrelated to Israel, for Israel's actions: that's unjustifiable, as I said before. But it is also a predictable phenomena, and will remain one as long as the connection between Israel and Judaism remains commonly accepted.

Regarding David Duke: I don't know the man. But my position is that arguments stand on their own, regardless of the source. If the logic is correct; if the citations are reliable then the arguments should be considered. That doesn't mean Duke isn't a tumbling, tumbling dickweed, but arguments of any kind should always be evaluated independent of their authors. Next, you say that too often, criticisms of Israel cross over into something else. Presumably that "something else" is racism. I can't say I've made the same observation, most criticisms I've read seem to be legitimately addressed against Israel as a state, not against the ethnic group it claims to represent.

That doesn't mean they're not sometimes off mark. You mentioned Nazi analogies. If someone says Israel is as bad as Nazi Germany, that certainly is objectionable. Israel isn't Nazi Germany. That doesn't mean that Nazi Germany is completely off limits as a case study into the behavior of powerful states. So take for example, the preventative war doctrine used to justify the German invasion of Denmark and Norway. We should examine these things and learn from them, and comparisons should be made when they are real. That doesn't mean Israel is committing a Holocaust, but Israel's actions do fall tidily into a common behavior practiced by all powerful, militant states both former and current.
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-11 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Great post
Lots to think about.

Thanks.
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tootrueleft Donating Member (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-11 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. A very appropriate sentence.....
"And stop insulting those who were massacred during the holocaust by using them as rhetorical human shields for Israel's war crimes"

:applause:
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-11 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Read here about Israel's "war crimes"...
Edited on Fri May-27-11 07:40 AM by shira
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tootrueleft Donating Member (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-11 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. I can do my own reading, thank you.
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King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-11 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Must tear you up
That Israel is The Jewish State ?
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JonScholar Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-11 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. Not really. I think it's as stupid a concept as all the world's Muslim and/or Christian states. nt
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-11 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. There are over 2 billion Christians and 1.5 billion Muslims in the world
Apples and oranges.
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JonScholar Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-11 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. The point is that they're all states that proclaim to be representing only a certain kind of citizen
It's simply bigoted declare yourself a Muslim/Jewish/Christian state. If anything, states should represent their citizenry, not some favored ethno-religious group
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-11 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. So are Muslim states an embarassment to Muslims? n/t
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JonScholar Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-11 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Piss off with your attack questions
Yes, the same criticisms apply to the actions of Muslims states. I feel I've already made that exceptionally clear
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-11 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Then why don't we see any "progressives" or liberals routinely making this argument?
Edited on Fri May-27-11 10:56 AM by shira
To call any Muslim state an embarassment to Muslims is an ugly, bigoted rightwing attack.

Applying the same to Israel is no less bigoted.

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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-11 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. No they are not the same because you rarely see
Muslim and Saudi Arabia or Muslim and Syria or Muslim and Egypt being used interchangeably as you frequently do Israel and Jew
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-11 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #23
33. The Partition Plan was designed to divide Palestine into an Arab state and a Jewish state
The name that was selected for the Jewish state was Israel.

I would note that these were not religious delineations (Arab, obviously, is not a religion).

Israel is a state that represents its citizens but also serves as a homeland for the Jewish people who had been stateless for a long time and subjected to a great deal of persecution as a result.
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Shaktimaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #23
34. Isn't that a utopian vision?
Don't most states identify with a particular ethnicity that forms the basis of its nationality? Sure, they represent all of their citizens, as Israel also does, but that doesn't mean there isn't an ethnic component.

You are making the mistake of assuming that Judaism is merely a religion. It is also a nationality, albeit a stateless one until recently.
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