DEMS: TAKE BACK THE FLAG.

[LandOLincoln]

This post was inspired primarily by an earlier post, by someone who says he turns his back on the flag during the Pledge of Allegiance.

Don't do it. Don't walk into their trap.

TAKE IT BACK. TAKE IT BACK. TAKE IT BACK.

Fly it proudly. Fly it often. Fly it everywhere.

Find a U.S. manufacturer of flags and buy as many as you can afford. If you can't find a U.S. manufacturer, make them yourself, or have your wife or girlfriend or anyone who can sew, make them for you.

TAKE IT BACK. TAKE IT BACK. TAKE IT BACK.

No matter what evil you think it's stood for in the past, TAKE IT BACK NOW.

Make it stand for what YOU want it to stand for.

FLY IT, AND FLY IT PROUDLY.

TAKE IT BACK. DO IT NOW.

[SpiralHawk]

1. Giga dittoes

Ain't nobody wreaking the Ultimate Perversion on my Flag. Flying it with Independent Pride

[LandOLincoln]

3. Thanks...

and hate to whore my own post, but rate it up for Greatest if you think it's worthy. Naturally I do. I think it's one of the smartest things we Dems could do right now.

[Politically_Wrong]

2. In my opinion...

Let me say that again...IN MY OPINION...the flag is nothing more than a form of Aggressive Patriotism...but once again...thats just MY OPINION...

[FrenchieCat]

4. The flag is a symbol, and for the Masses, its represents

America in a nutshell!

Whether that is good or bad is up to individual judgement...which is why for me the flag stands for what we could be....

I think that the flag is a decisive symbol at the moment that the Right USES to make their "points" about the Left...

We would be much better off not playing into their hands.....while we work to have the flag mean what we know that it could mean.

Anyways...that's my .02cents!

[LandOLincoln]

6. I understand and appreciate your opinion, and shared it

until recently (and still do to some extent.)

But surely you can see how RoveCo are using that against us? Please note that I said the Flag should stand for what YOU want it to stand for, not what you think someone else thinks it should or does stand for.

DON'T LET THEM GET BY WITH FRAMING IT AGAINST US. TAKE IT BACK.

Surely you can see the power in taking it back? It's all about symbolism.

We need to take it back, and we need to do it NOW.

[dogman]

14. Only if you turn your back and allow it.

I hate to surrender my country to those who would pervert it and destroy it from within. I am not personally attached to a symbol, but if they want to claim it as theirs, they are wrong, and I am motivated to defend what I feel is its true meaning. I don't feel that Patriotism is wrong and I won't allow it to be misrepresented.

[Donna Zen]

16. Symbolism: the map and territory

Human communications are language maps of actual territory. An example might be the word "dog" is a map of a living animal that we like to call a dog. It is not the actual dog. Similarly, the "flag" is just a piece of cloth, it is not a form of anything else.

Admittedly, and increasingly, the map-symbol of the US flag refers to religious zealots, xenophobes, anti-democratic attitudes, criminal international behaviors, corporate whores, and corrupt politicians. But, it didn't always serve as their symbol. There was a time when it stood for an enlightened people who embraced science, cared about the future, and wanted the territory that the flag represented to strive for the "more perfect union." (note: I realize that this is an idyllic statement, and yet, there was a time when America was a better territory.)

Each time we turn our back on the symbol, we relinquish our fight to define that symbol, and thus, the territory. The flag is not going away; it will continue to fly over our post offices and grace the sides of our ships. It is time that we restored its original meaning, and that means, we take it back. The joy mongering would commence when regressives in our country cringed when that piece of cloth symbolized our values and rejected theirs.

Raise that flag, it is our country and we need to change it.

[July]

64. Somewhat agree.

It has been used that way very often, and particularly since 9/11/01.

Personally, I'm not comfortable with any kind of flag-waving or other "patriotic" displays. But I'm not a big fan of excessive use of rituals and symbols, anyway.

EXCEPT for the Bills' logo. GO BILLS!!!

[Cassandra]

5. During the "anti-RNC" march last summer...

I had a flag scarf around my hat, a flag stuck in my belt and a few more flag stickers floating around on my sign. I still had idiot freepers yelling at me.

[LandOLincoln]

9. So? Surely you didn't let those assholes intimidate you?

I can't say it enough:

Make it stand for what YOU want it to stand for, not for what you think they think it stands for.

TAKE IT BACK. TAKE IT BACK. TAKE IT BACK.

[Cassandra]

18. No, I yelled back at them.

[LandOLincoln]

46. Good for you. Blast those morons whenever you can. n/t

[firefox]

7. There is no shortage of flag flying.

People should fly the Constitution.

[FrenchieCat]

8. Well, they should at least read it! LOL!

[LandOLincoln]

11. I like your optimism, Frenchie.

Do you really think the Great Unwashed would have the faintest fucking idea what the Constitution says? They wouldn't make it past the first sentence or two.

The flag, OTOH, everyone understands...or thinks they do.

I'm just saying what Wes has been saying for years now:

We need to take it back. We need to do it NOW.

[frankly_fedup2]

19. Amen on that one.. (lol, I said Amen and bitch about the separation of

church and state regarding the Constitution). No pun intended.

[blondeatlast]

10. We love our country, that's why we care.

Absolute dittoes to this.

[AX10]

12. I agree!

:kick:

The American Flag belongs to us!

[WePurrsevere]

13. Darn straight! It's OUR Flag too! I'm so sick of RW twits making out like

they have more of a right to fly it then we do. They don't... the Flag represents EVERY American, it represents the principles that OUR country was founded on, it represents OUR mothers, OUR fathers, OUR children, OUR friends, etc that have fought and even died for the rights we hold dear and that even now and even more so we must constantly be vigilant to keep and hold.

So raise our flag... raise it high.. tie a light blue ribbon around the pole for PEACE. Put it next to the yard sign saying Peace *IS* Patriotic. Abso-freakin-lutely take BACK *our* Flag as we take back OUR country. Take back all that Flag TRULY means. Fight for having it MEAN something REAL for ALL Americans. We Democrats and Liberals ARE PATRIOTS TOO. No I sure as heck don't love what BUSHCo and the neo-CONs have done to America but you don't have to love or even vaguely like what is done by these BushCo Neo-CON TRAITORS to love our country, to love what it was founded in 1776 to be and to "hold these truths to be self evident" just as our fore parents did before us.

Although I can understand that some see it as a symbol of all that is wrong but for some of us it's a symbol of hope... of a dream... of Freedom... of all America CAN and SHOULD be.

Thank you for saying what both my DH and I have felt for so long. :patriot:

[LandOLincoln]

15. Uhhh.... almost everyone agrees with me, but

no one thinks this post is worthy of the Greatest page?

Mind you, I'm not so attention-starved that I want this for my own ego, but because I think it's an enormously important issue and think it should be front and center for as long and as often as possible.

Just sayin'... :evilgrin:

[LandOLincoln]

17. All RIIIIGHT! Now we're cookin'. Keep those votes coming,

everybody.

Like I said, IMO this is a vital issue that has nothing to do with my own ego.

So--anyone know of a U.S. manufacturer of flags we can rally around? I'll make my own if necessary, but I'd really rather not.

In any case, I'll be flying the flag proudly as soon as I can buy or sew my own. Thanks, everyone, for your support. Let's do this. Let's make U.S. flag manufacturers RICH.

[VPStoltz]

20. I had made this same suggestion some time ago on this blog.

The flag, however you feel about it as a symbol, IS the symbol of this country; it's not going to go away. I say, beat (or at least match) them at their own game. Every communication on this site should be accompanied by the flag and for those who feel comfortable with it, the symbol of their faith. This country belongs to us, the people, not The Chimp's filthy rich hacks. I proudly have a flag sticker right above the "Bush Lied, People Died" sticker on my car.

[LandOLincoln]

21. Thank you. That's exactly what I've been trying to say,

however badly. Thanks for understanding me.

[VPStoltz]

37. You're so welcome.

[jhain]

22. one flying here every single day! /nt

[Kurovski]

33. same here! And the big flag comes out on the days

designated on my VFW "Fly The Flag" calendar .

[LandOLincoln]

23. Thanks for your votes, everyone. We made it.

Now I'd like to bore you with a little story:

I was 11 years old in 1954 when "under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance. I was too young to grasp what was going on, but trusted my mom--a staunch Liberal from a staunch Liberal family of educators from Lincolnshire by way of New England--and so from then on I simply kept my mouth shut when we got to the "under God" part, but recited the rest faithfully as I'd always done.

Then I went on to high school and university and no longer had to recite the Pledge at all.

In January 2004 I went to my first rally for General Wesley Clark. (Actually Wes wound up staying in New Hampshire, and it was future First Lady Gert Clark who showed up at the Sheraton Old Town for that rally.) And for the first time in nearly 50 years I found myself reciting the Pledge. I put my hand over my heart, and with tears in my eyes I did it--omitting the "under God" as usual. That was January 11, 2004, IIRC.

On January 28th the man himself showed up. We recited the Pledge again, and again I recited it, keeping my mouth shut for the "under God" part.

When we were done Wes strode over to the flag at the back of the stage, took it into his hands, and TOOK IT BACK. Said it belonged to We, The People, not to the lying crooks in W's misadministration. (Wes didn't put it exactly that way, but no one could mistake his true meaning.)

It jolted me awake, me the 60s radical, me, who had my phone tapped in the mid 70s--but I'll still never say "under God" because I remember the Pledge before McCarthy and his wacko "Commie" obsessions got it altered in '54.

But the thing is, Wesley Kanne Clark gave me back the flag of my country--the flag that I would just as soon have burned, back in the day (although I really thought that was an unbelievably stupid thing to do)--and by all that's holy, no one will ever take that flag away from me again.

So hear me, you creepy, crawly traitors to this great country and everything it stands for (and everyone else forget for the time being how often our governments have betrayed the very ideals upon which the country was founded).

Just remember those ideals, and the men who put their lives on the line for them. Remember what this country is supposed to be, not what it has been too often, and particularly what is is now.

Stand up, dammit. TAKE IT BACK. Stand with the patriots. Stand with Wes Clark, and Charlie Rangel, and Cindy Sheehan, and Russ Feingold and John Kerry and John Edwards and Barack Obama and Paul Hackett and all the rest of us--all the good, strong men and women to whom this country and its flag really belong.

STAND UP. TAKE IT BACK. IT'S OURS.

TAKE IT BACK, DAMMIT. DO IT NOW.

[phillysuse]

24. It's OUR FLAG1

I absolutely agree with you and with Wes Clark.

It's OUR FLAG. It is our proud men and women who fought
and died for that flag.

People like Charlie Rangel and John F Kennedy, John Kerry and
Wesley Clark, Lori Pistawa and Casey Sheehan.

It is not the flag of the ChickenHawks - Bush hiding out in
the National Guard, Cheney who had other things to do and 7 deferments
, Rush Limpballs with his anal cyst....

It's OUR FLAG! Get over it.

You freepers want this flag - sign up and fight for it!!

[LandOLincoln]

25. You tell 'em, patriot. Thanks for that. N/T

[Clarkie1]

26. "That flag is our flag," Clark said as applause swelled up and eyes grew

teary.

http://www.salon.com/news/lotp/2005/06/20/wes_clark/index_np.html

From DNC speech:

And this soldier has news for you tonight. Anyone who tells you that one political party has a monopoly on the best defense of our nation is committing a fraud on the American people.

Franklin Roosevelt said it best. Franklin Roosevelt said: "Repetition does not transform a lie into the truth."

This hall, this Democratic Party are filled with veterans who have served under the American flag. And this is our flag. Right there, that flag, we saluted this flag. We rose up in the morning and stood reveille to this flag. We fought for that flag. We've seen brave men and women buried under that flag. That flag is ours, and nobody, nobody will take it away from us.

We are the party that America can trust.

But we've got to tell the truth. And the truth is this: The safety of our country demands urgent and innovative measures to strengthen our armed forces. The safety of our country demands credible intelligence. The safety of our country demands cooperation with our allies. The safety of our country demands making more friends and fewer enemies.

The safety of our country demands an end to the doctrinaire, ineffective policies that currently grip Washington.

Enough is enough.

http://securingamerica.com/speeches/2004-07-29

[LandOLincoln]

27. God (or whoever) bless and protect Wesley Kanne Clark.

As for the rest of us?

TAKE IT BACK. IT'S OURS. DO IT NOW. TAKE IT BACK.

[Stinky The Clown]

28. I wore the uniform for that flag. I give it back to each of you

Fly it

Own it

Show it

Wear it

Burn it if you must (but you will do that wihout my blessing or support)

But NEVER ... NEVER .... EVER give it away or give it up.

That is OUR flag.

[ourbluenation]

29. I agree - don't EVER forget what our country means to us...ever! eom

[Sparkly]

30. Couldn't agree more, LandOLincoln!!!

We can NOT let the American Flag stand for the Republican Party -- and they are working hard to usurp it that way.

:patriot:

[Kurovski]

31. Agreed.

Wear a flag pin, it freaks 'em out when someone assumes they can safely spew the Bush line and you say, "Oh, I disagree..."

Keep 'em guessing folks! Give them something to think about.

And I just plain love the flag anyway. Omit one letter and I even have one of my favorite words that I also took back twenty years ago.

[Stinky The Clown]

32. If you bumper sticker your car ........ be sure you have flags there, too

The flag is YOURS

[Kurovski]

36. No car. just a fleet of buses...n/t

[VPStoltz]

38. Got one right above the "Bush Lied, People Died" sticker.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sparkly]

35. I'm still waiting for your response to your earlier "ask me..."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2108329#2111988

(Did Jim Morrison also increase homosexuality, by the way?)

[LandOLincoln]

41. Okay, what did I miss?

Not to hijack my own thread, but what do Limpballs and Dr. Fate have to do with Jim? (who wasn't gay or bi, but had no problem with either as long as they didn't try to "compromise" him.)

[Sparkly]

42. Well...

I hope I'm allowed to say it -- we'll see. "It" didn't like your Jim Morrison avatar, claiming Morrison supported slavery or some such. I was trying to get It to reply about an earlier post It made, claiming that "The Rich" had promoted and increased homosexuality to control the population, and then created AIDs to kill them off. (No, I'm not kidding.)

[LandOLincoln]

44. Oh Jeez Louise, I wish I'd seen that. I could use a good

laugh about now. Wackos like that show up on the Doors' own board from time to time, but the mods nuke 'em pretty quickly, thanks be.

Appreciate the explanation, Sparkly.

[IndyOp]

39. Respectfully, strongly, strongly disagree!

Flags stir emotion, they hypnotize, they shut down thought. By associating a flag with powerful emotions (love, pride, hope, community, safety, family) -- the flag comes to elicit those emotions so that each time it is shown it SHUTS DOWN THOUGHT.

The American flag is merely a brand logo for a country and does not, and never did exist.

The only flag I will fly is one that makes people THINK:

<>

Ad aired on CNN for AdBusters.org

[LandOLincoln]

43. I agree with you, to a large degree, but this is no time

for our notorious "nuance," IMO. (BTW, I have a sister who would probably argue your point for hours, if she could. Fortunately she's in Macao, and will never see this thread...I hope :toast: )

Further to the point, when I--a newly minted Clarkie--found out in the fall of 2003 that Wes "would support" a flag burning amendment, I dumped him. I called a friend of mine with impeccable Liberal credentials--she's cousin to Adlai--and told her of my decision.

She talked me out of it. She brought up the example of one of her brothers--also an otherwise spotless Liberal--who'd served in Vietnam just as Wes had done, and who shared his touchiness about that symbol for which they'd both put their lives on the line. Gave me a whole new perspective.

So I took Wes back, and have never once regretted my decision.

So the point of this ramble (you were wondering when I was going to get to the point, right?) is simply what I said before:

This is no time for nuance. We simply need to OWN that most potent of American symbols, and we need to do it NOW.

[July]

66. I understand where you're coming from.

But it makes me uncomfortable when people say that someone "fought for the flag." I know we all understand it is a symbol of the United States, but it is much more important to me that we respect and represent the Constitution, a rich document that can't be used the same way a flag is. To me, no-one is fighting for the flag; they are fighting for the American system of democracy represented in the Constitution.

I do see the utility of not letting Republicans claim the symbol that gets people's emotions about this country stirred up, and I'm all for anyone who wants to fly it doing so. I think I don't understand why people let it become such an emotional trigger for them, and I know that many (I don't mean you by any means) use flag-waving as a shortcut to thinking about what this country is about.

Because symbols are so potent sometimes, it's a tough issue.

[OzarkDem]

40. Always have flown the flag

Many of my ancestors died defending it. It always seems to confound conservatives when confronted with patriotic Dems.

Its our history, the symbol of our country, its citizens and our Constitution.

:patriot:

[formernaderite]

45. I find our flag and all flags offensive...

they are nationalistic and promote a jingoistic stance towards others on this planet.
In fact, I can't stand flag wavers. There is one law in my house....NO FLAG STAMPS....ever. Fuck the flag!

[Sparkly]

47. Do you feel that way about all symbols?

The flag is a symbol. Like crosses, Buddhas, candles, wedding rings, graduation caps, academic regalia, diplomas, etc... Are they all jingoistic?

[formernaderite]

52. No, not universal symbols....

but a flags purpose is to differentiate between...and as a citizen of the world I disagree with them. I also happen to be an atheist, so I tend to have a little respect for religious symbols in general.

[LandOLincoln]

48. Fine. Let the wingnuts own the symbol. Your own purity

of word and deed is paramount, after all.
*****
Okay, ignore the snark. I can't help it...it's my nature.

I can even understand your insistance on purity above politics.

Here's the thing: I just re-read The Godfather for the first time since it was published in 1969. It reminded me of some very important principals I'd forgotten, to wit:

1. Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.

2. Never ever let anyone know that you're really thinking or feeling.

3. Read No. 1 and No. 2 again. And again, and again, and again.

So, today's lesson? Own that flag, that symbol, no matter what you really think or feel about it and/or the country it stands for.

Own it, smile, and wave it at every opportunity. Make no mistake, it's your life, and that of your children, that's at stake.

[formernaderite]

53. You may think that I'm in the minority, but there are many people

who feel this way..and don't worry I have extremely thick skin....snarkiness has never bothered me :)

[zara]

49. Wave a flage that says US OUT OF IRAQ?

[LandOLincoln]

50. First of all, that would be "flag," not "flage." Second,

yes, that would be US OUT OF IRAQ, but on our terms and by our timetable. Please see Wes Clark's many op eds and other writings on the subject (and please, everyone, provide the links I'm too tired/drunk to Google on me own...)

[LandOLincoln]

51. So this thread has sunk to the bottom of the Greatest page,

while the High school HotHead's thread is at the top??

Typical, typical, typical...

[zara]

55. apology for my bad spelling land o lincoln, but you miss the irony

because you are a Clark supporter. I respect General Clark a great deal by the way. At any rate, the flag Cindy Sheehan waves says Out of Iraq. But no leading Dems wave that flag. Their flag says what Gen Clark says, or it implicitly says, we can't develop an internal position as a party. As our budget woes increase and Iraq fortunes falter further, I think Cindy's position will win out. But I fear that the Resmuglicans will leverage this to paint a party weak on security and win the 2008 presidency. Cindy is right. But the American people are easily manipulated. IMO.

[jonnyblitz]

54. I will salute a flag when it represents ALL of humankind. I don't

care to salute symbols of nationalism, particulary a symbol of a country that is behaving POORLY on the world stage. I find nationialism to be a very ugly and chaunistic emotion and it's just not for me. :shrug:

[TriMetFan]

56. I have been flying the flag at my home for over 10 yrs now

and now that we bought a new home I made sure to have a pole put up so I could have the flag flying there too. I also wear the flag on my uniform everyday and it is something we don't have to do at my job but I what every one to know that this liberal dyke is proud of our flag.

[proud patriot]

57. I've been holding on to the flag for 4 and half years

:thumbsup:

[Adelante]

58. I'm pretty mixed on the flag, personally

But Democrats have got to say to Republicans, "Fuck you. That is OUR flag." We have to hold it for the country, just as we do the Constitution. It means too much to too many.

Like I said, not me, especially, but I'll wave it for the point of it :patriot:

[OnionPatch]

59. I have also mixed feelings

toward the flag. I used to feel a swell of pride when I saw it but that was before it was pasted everywhere in the attempt to support an immoral war and right-wing policy. I fly the flag when I'm proud of my country and flying the flag now, for me, would almost seem like I was saying I condoned the things our country is doing. There's no way in the world I want anyone to think I support this fascist crap that's going on right now. So I have not flown the flag for years. It does suck that they've hijacked it, though, and I would like to have it back!

So, I've been thinking that while I'm not proud of what Bush and the GOP have been doing, I proud of one part of America.....the BLUE part of America. I'm actually extremely proud of all my fellow lefties and the way they've been sticking up for our democracy and the true values of America. Maybe the answer for me (and people like me) is to fly the flag along with a symbol of the left, like a peace sign flag, underneath it. Yeah!

[Adelante]

61. That's a great solution

:)

[western mass]

60. Step 2: Take back the Bible

[jonnyblitz]

65. no, they can have that crap. nt

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LandOLincoln]

63. Eat my shorts, you Che wanna-be. N/T

[janx]

67. How can I take back something I never lost?

Dems haven't had the flag taken from them, LoL. The flag belongs to all Americans, as Dean pointed out in 2003.