Kerry in Commanding Lead Among Democratic Primary Voters in Wisconsin

[Feanorcurufinwe]

Likely Democratic primary voters 	
               Feb 6 	Feb 12
Wesley Clark 	15% 	NI
Howard Dean 	9% 	11%
John Edwards 	10% 	16%
John Kerry 	41% 	53%
Dennis Kucinich 2% 	2%
Al Sharpton 	2% 	2%
Undecided 	21% 	16%

A total of 44% of likely Democratic primary voters are aware
of John Edwards but do not know enough about him to form an
opinion. A total of 43% of likely Democratic primary voters
now say they have an unfavorable opinion of Howard Dean.

Awareness and favorability 	
              Aware Favorable Unfavorable Undecided
Howard Dean: 				
Feb 12 2004 	99% 	19% 	43% 	37%
Feb 6 2004 	98% 	20% 	37% 	41%
John Edwards: 				
Feb 12 2004 	89% 	29% 	16% 	44%
Feb 6 2004 	91% 	21% 	15% 	55%
John Kerry: 				
Feb 12 2004 	98% 	65% 	19% 	14%
Feb 6 2004 	98% 	53% 	21% 	24%
Dennis Kucinich: 				
Feb 12 2004 	51% 	8% 	36% 	7%
Feb 6 2004 	53% 	5% 	32% 	16%
Al Sharpton: 				
Feb 12 2004 	61% 	5% 	52% 	4%
Feb 6 2004 	64% 	6% 	49% 	9%

Of the 16% undecided in ballot preference, 60% have a
favorable opinion of Kerry. 

http://www.americanresearchgroup.com/wi/  

Note Dean's unfavorable is climbing, his favorable is
declining.  Apparently his strident attacks on Kerry aren't
working, since Kerry's favorable is climbing, his unfavorable
declining.

[XanaDUer]

1. Thank you so much for this information...

;)

[polpilot]

51. Pro-war candidates (Kerry/Edwards) High Favs Anti-War-Low Favs

Complicated ain't it!

Dean '04..The Anti-Iraq War...Anti-DLC..Anti-Establishment candidate with low favs!!!

[molly]

53. Dean supported the Biden-Lugar amendment - was that

anti-war? Dean was a corporate enabler when he was Gov of Vermont - is that anti-establishment? Am I repeating myself?

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zomby Woof]

3. Dean's unfavorables

Second only to Sharpton's, lol. Yeeeeargh, or something.

[RedDawnRising]

14. Why would you pay attention to a poll giving Dennis 36% unfavorable

and only 8% favorable ?

What a crock

[Feanorcurufinwe]

25. Do you ignore any data you find unpleasant?

[stickdog]

38. Please explain how DK's unfavorables outnumber his favorables more than

4 to 1?

Is somebody push polling against him or something?

What could explain this?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

39. What could explain people not liking him?

What am I, a pop psychologist? I have no idea. Too much late night TV ridicule? Anti-vegan bias? We are talking Wisconsin, they love their cheese...

[polpilot]

49. Typical for anti-establishment outsiders.

Dean '04...

[molly]

58. We have very good memories

Dean's schmoozing with corporations revealed in Boston Globe

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=887431&mesg_id=887431

Howard Dean is fond of criticizing politicians who provide tax breaks to "large corporate interests," and one of his favorite campaign lines is a blast at the Bush administration for doling out tax cuts to top executives of Enron Corp.

But during Dean's 11 years as Vermont governor, he enacted tax breaks that attracted to the state a "Who's Who" of corporate America -- including Enron -- to set up insurance businesses. Indeed, Dean said in 2001 that he wanted Vermont to "overtake Bermuda" as the "world's largest" haven for a segment of the insurance industry known as "captives," which refers to firms that help insure their parent companies.

With little notice then -- and barely any mention now in the Democratic presidential campaign -- Dean succeeded in turning Vermont into the kingdom of captives. Vermont has more of these companies than the other 49 states combined. As part of the enticement, Dean led efforts to cut state taxes of such companies, and he helped defeat a Clinton administration effort that would have eliminated $100 million worth of federal tax deductions given to the industry.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/dean/articles/2003/12/12... /

[The Magistrate]

60. Fellows Elected To Govern A State, Sir

Are by definition establishment insiders; one does not secure such office otherwise.

The continual clamor for amatuer politicians in certain cvircles is a source of great amusement to me. It is a trade like any other, requiring a great body of specialized craft and practiced skill. Who calls for an amatuer plumber to tend to their hot water pipes, or an amatuer cardiologist to crack their chest for a coronary by-pass?

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Zomby Woof]

46. yeah I noticed

But DK didn't say he was going to quit after Wisconsin, then renege on that promise. So I just wanted to alert Dean supporters to the writing on the wall. ;-)

DK will stay in no matter which way Wisconsin goes, because he is the only progressive running, and we need his voice and his platform.

Meanwhile, Dean is more irrelevant by the day...

[stickdog]

62. Dean is irrelevant, but some guy he's still beating the crap out of by

every possible measure is relevant.

:eyes:

[oasis]

4. lovely.

[Old and In the Way]

5. Edwards numbers are interesting.

Least unfavorable, but not exactly getting the base excited.

And look at poor Howard. This won't make our Deaniacs very happy. If nothing else, I hope they confront their collective meme that only Howard is electable.

[MurikanDemocrat]

6. Clear evidence that Dean's divisive rhetoric is hurting him, isn't it.

[The Magistrate]

8. Gov. Dean Is A Spent Force, Ma'amm

This is why some among his supporters express themselves so strenuously: sound and fury drowns the doubts.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[polpilot]

54. "Let's go get those Bush bastards (with OUR pro-war team)!!! Good luck!

Dean '04...

[The Magistrate]

59. You Badly Mis-Read The People, Sir

The great majority of the people in our country supported the invasion of Iraq. A large number of these have since come to see it was a terrible folly, and that they were deceived by deliberate lies into the support they gave. These people will be quite amenable to a candidate who says the criminals of the '00 Coup deceived you, as they deceived me, and must be punished for their lies. Electoral politics is an exercise in bulding group identities, and this is a powerful one, for it validates the people who resent being deceived in their self-image.

"Can'y nobody here play this game?"

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[ShaneGR]

11. OOPS, thought you were talking about Edwards

I was like, divisive rhetoric? Edwards hasn't attacked anyone but Bush!

[The Magistrate]

12. It Seemed To Me, Sir

That Ms. Murican was refering to Gov. Dean, not Sen. Edwards, and responding to the closing line of the comment she replied to.

Sen. Edwards has run to date an exemplary campaign, cioncentrating his fire on the common enemy, and not against fellow Democrats.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[ShaneGR]

13. Sorry, see above edit

I freaked, cuz I heard divisive rhetoric in a thread about Edwards. Just about blew a gasket, almost called Triple-A.

[The Magistrate]

16. You Are A Good Fellow, Sir

And so is your candidate. His "two Americas" line is an excellent one.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[ochazuke]

20. Just saw Edwards on Leno

And I'm so high on him that I think he would beat Bush in Texas. It would be like McGovern in reverse. Shrub would take Utah and Idaho. Everything else: Edwards.

But Democrats are thinking Kerry is the electable one. And why? Because he got more votes in last week's primary or caucus. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, or vicious circle. Whatever. It'll be over when the primaries end and I Guar-un-tee nobody will be thinking that way in November.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

31. Kerry is the most qualified, so he is seen as the most electable,

so he wins, so he looks more electable.

[polpilot]

55. So the pro-war DLC site has been saying for months!!! (See DLC site)

Nothing wrong with espousing pro-war DLC, pro-establishment candidates!!!

Dean '04...The anti-establishment, anti-Iraqi War candidate for 2004!

[MurikanDemocrat]

24. Yes, I meant Dean. I still had time to edit to make that more clear.

[Darth_Kitten]

42. Divisive rhethoric?

Where does Kerry stand on the purity in politics test? :eyes:

[polpilot]

52. No. Just that pro-war candidates enjoy higher favorables. Check the chart!

Pro-war demos v. pro-war repubs in Nov. '04...

Dean '04..The Anti-Iraqi War candidate

[Feanorcurufinwe]

7. Edwards did get the second biggest jump in support though.

[King of New Orleans]

9. Well that's sort of like

winning Miss Congeniality at a beauty pageant though.

[ochazuke]

10. THANK YOU for noticing that!

The more of Edwards people see, the more they like him. And he has the political skills to keep his favorables high. I think he would be the most popular president since Eisenhower. And he wouldn't turn the congress Republican like Clinton did (THANKS BILL!)

[BidMarx]

15. Great numbers!

Reminds me so strongly why I would never register as a member of this part. Baahahahaa.


We need a true progressive alternative quick that is viable. Im sick of staying home on election day.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BidMarx]

18. Allready imploded...

The democratic party that is. Dean destroying it is the last of your worries. It may stand still, but for absolutely nothing.


If Dean destroyed what was left Id hardley blame him, as there was little there. At least he would of made room to rebuild soething worth voting for. Hey now...your almost convincing me to be a Dean supporter now I think about it.

[slinkerwink]

19. and with that kind of attitude.....do you think it's going to

help us vote for Kerry? NO!

[The Magistrate]

A Simple Question, Ma'am

Do you want the criminals of the '00 Coup out of office, or ruling the country for the next four years?

If you want them out of office, you will, in November, vote for the Party's nominee, whoever that might be.

If you want them in office for four more years, you will do otherwise.

Your choice....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[indigo32]

22. Sir

I appreciate your enthusiasm for ABB,
but perhaps in your efforts to further that goal you could understand the feelings a post like the one Slinker was responding to engenders. A little empathy, and I try to practice what I preach, goes a long way.

[The Magistrate]

28. The Point Remains, Ma'am

People will have to face up to it, sooner or later, and the sooner the better.

The attempt to blackmail embodied by the continual refrain of some supporters of Gov. Dean that if they do not get their way they will in effect go over to the other side needs to stop. Gov. Dean has never had my support, but were he positioned to win the nomination, you would not see me threatening to withhold my hand from action against the common enemy.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Darth_Kitten]

43. So the only good candidate is the so called "electable" one.

I'll believe in my ideals and support those who have the guts, integrity, and class to stand up for them, thank you.

Go DEAN!!! :)

[The Magistrate]

47. Of Course, Ma'am

A candidate who likely to be defeated is useless, and it really ought not to be necessary to point this out to anyone old enough to go to the polls.

Moral victory is a synonym for defeat.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[slinkerwink]

26. I want Bush out as badly as you do, but I also want a REAL

Democratic party----not the one that didn't listen to the 300,000 in New York City that marched against the war in Iraq, and the 200,000 in San Francisco that marched against the war in Iraq.......

[The Magistrate]

33. So If Sen. Kerry is The Nominee, Ma'am

You will vote for him?

That is all that is at issue here. Although it is worth pointing out that the rank and file of the Democratic Party has overwhelmingly voted thus far against Gov. Dean, and shows every side of continuing to do so. Why that should not be considered the expression of the "real" Democratic Party is beyond me.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[BidMarx]

40. I wont...

But Im not bound to a party Im not a part of, and hence, free to not compromise my morals and ideals by conforming to the lesser of two evils.

A lot of people like me wont even get to the polls this year because of this. And we never will until there is a viable alternative. You wont understand, so feel free to sling the rhetoric, as I am ready for such.

Most democrats are so because the people who lead the party can state anything, but use language which appeals to the left. Whereas, on the right, any policy can be promoted depending entirely on how it is said, ussually playing on fear, etc. But regardless, the languages may differ, but not the policies. The sheep follow where they may, and parties consist mostly of people voting on their gut regarding how a message is delivered, not what that message is. People want a warm fuzzy feeling, on the left or right, and will vote for that feeling, but rarely the actual message.

An example of the difference between a democrat and a republican is one makes war a scary terror issue and the other makes it a feel-good fuzzy help the world issue. Whereas, the progressive draws a line in the sand and invites neither to dinner.

[The Magistrate]

48. Then You Collaborate With the Greater Evil, Mr. Marx

This "lesser of two evils" tripe is one of most nonsensical chants of this discussion overall. Those who maintain the line that the lesser evil is still evil and cannot be collaborated with quite ignore that the greater evil is still the greater evil, and will do more evil if maintained in position to do so. By refusing to act effectively against the greater evil, you assist it in the triumph of its work. To do this for so flimsy and self-serving a reason as to "not compromise my morals and ideals" is the height of frivolous moral bankruptcy: what is your personal sense of moral worth, Sir, set against the havoc wreaked on the people and our country and the world by the criminals of the '00 Coup? You set a feather against a pound of lead, and only an extraordinarily crooked balance could showing the latter less than the former.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[polpilot]

56. Ahhh. 'The simple world'...I've heard of that place and its inhabitants.

Dean '04...

[The Magistrate]

57. Do, Please, Sir, Enlighten Me On The Complexities Of Life

Enquiring minds want to know....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Spider Jerusalem]

23. One must say...

that it is neither productive nor intelligent to blame a candidate for the actions of his supporters, for instance the above poster's wish that Dean be "totally destroyed" in the Wisconsin primary balloting. I shall state, for the record, that I have never supported Governor Dean. I have also had disagreements with his supporters in these forums. However, such disagreements do not markedly influence my opinion of Dean, as that opinion was formed through an analysis of Dean himself, his actions as Governor of Vermont, his public statements and speeches, and much else besides. Disagreements with his supporters, while frequently grating, as I'm sure Mister "Total Destruction" above is to you, have nothing to do with Dean himself; you may rest assured that Kerry has not told his supporters "go forth and behave obnoxiously in as many public fora as possible", as Dr. Dean hasn't.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[indigo32]

21. Ummm

what the hell are you talking about?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

27. It can't be for real can it?

I mean there must be some missing </sarcasm> or </irony> tag or something... no?

[Spider Jerusalem]

29. You should look at "Response to: " in upper-right corner of post.

That wasn't referencing the poll...

[Feanorcurufinwe]

34. Yeah I know,

I'm talking about the bizarre, 'Dean must be humiliated post' -- doesn't it seem like a bad attempt at satire?

[Spider Jerusalem]

37. Very badly done...

if it is an attempt at satire. "Dean must be humiliated. Broken. Crushed. We will march on a road of bones." Very over-the-top, anyway.

[indigo32]

35. Thats right

people here need to grow up. And that goes for the Dean supporters who act like 2 year olds as well.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Darth_Kitten]

44. Oh, right,.

So no smearing from Dean's opponents, huh? Dean is out to get us, vote for the establishment nominee or BUSH gets reelected. OOOO.

There is this mindset that only Kerry can beat Bush, that hasn't been the case for a while now. It's rather sad that this is allegedly the only reason Kerry has been doing very well until now. He can beat Bush! (but, but, but...where does he stand? where DID he stand on the issues. Issues?) ;)

[The Magistrate]

61. Issues, Ma'am, Are Highly Over-Rated

The great mass of people do not decide their vote on issues; they vote for a candidate they come to identify with. Most people feel they are not too well informed about specific matters of governance, and so they want a candidate who makes them feel he or she would do about what they would themselves, if they were in office, and well versed in the ins and outs of the matter being decided.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

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[George_Bonanza]

32. Dean's desperado rhetoric doesn't inspire anybody

It may fire up his hardcore base, but that's it. People who left Dean for Kerry or Edwards won't suddenly be inspired to back a long-shot candidate because he regurgitates predictable and rehashed attacks from months ago, amidst much more graceful and classy ex-candidates like Gephardt and Clark. If anything, he may potentially cause an even further rift from the hardcore Dean supporters with the Kerry camp, and when November comes, there may be a lot of bitter voters who might've been much more enthusiastic.

[molly]

45. You are correct - I think he should bow out gracefully

and try to do something POSITIVE for our fight.

[TheDonkey]

50. Will this be a wake up call on Dean like in Iowa? Nope

He'll continue to sling the mud and cry until he drops.