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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 08:02 AM
Original message
Poll question: Dean supporters: How many of you will support Edwards?
If Howard leaves the race after Wisconsin, I plan on joining the Edwards campaign, and I'm curious how many plan on doing the same.

:hi:
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onebigbadwulf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. If it came down to edwards and kerry
no question edwards
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yes.
Basically, if Howard drops out, it HAS come down to that, for me. :)
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BuelahWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 03:55 PM
Original message
Me too n/t
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EXE619K Donating Member (717 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
3. What's the difference?
Edwards vs. Kerry?

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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. A populist agenda, for one.
Edited on Sat Feb-14-04 08:11 AM by Padraig18
And the only realistic chance of stopping the nomination from going to Kerry, for another.
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EXE619K Donating Member (717 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Well, one could always vote for Kerry.
If I wanted to vote for Edwards, why not vote for Kerry?

Edwards is only waiting for the assimilation anyways....and that's my opinion.

One of the major reasons why I supported Dean was because he was the only one who "went after" the Democratic establishment from the start.

Do you remember after 9/11?

"If you don't stand with the president, you stand with the terrorist."?

sounds familiar.
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I don't agree with everything he's done, obviously.
Edited on Sat Feb-14-04 08:22 AM by Padraig18
One huge difference between him and Sen. Kerry, though, is that Sen. Edwards did what he did out of a true belief in the rightness of his acts, whereas Sen. Kerry did what HE did with a cold, calculating eye cast upon the presidency. There's a basic consistency in Edwards that is lacking in Sen. Kerry, IMO. As I said previously, Edwards is MUCH more of a genuine populist than is Sen. Kerry.
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EXE619K Donating Member (717 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Well, I'm not trying to change your mind regarding your preference.
But, In my opinion, trying to de-rail the front-runner out of spite....I'm not going there.

Hey, I supported Dean because of what he stood for.

If I wanted to support the "same ole', politics as usual" candidate, I would have started supporting Kerry or Edwards.

In my opinion, Edwards have benefitted a lot from the clashes of the other camps more than anyone else in 2004. I don't believe that he's a populist....he just played his "hand" well, while the others took the "punishment".

Edwards just don't appeal to me much.

The only other choice that I had was Clark.

But, now that he handed-in his "outsider" credentials to the assimilation.....I'm sticking with Dean.
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Clark was my second choice, too, until he dropped out.
The question for me is very simple, really: Kerry, or not Kerry, among those remaining candidates with a realistic chace of winning both the nomination and the GE.

When life gives you lemons, you make lemonade. :shrug:
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EXE619K Donating Member (717 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. I respect your judgement.
I guess, the difference is whether you are a Democrat or..."other".

I'm assuming that you are a long time Democrat.

I'm an Independent who leans Democratic.

Like I've stated, If I really wanted to vote for a "Democrat", I'd drop my Dean avatar to Kerry or Edwards avatar right now.

ABB might be a fine choice, but after all the "he's not electable" shit thrown by the party establishment towards our camp.....

I'm not sure anymore.

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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Good point!
To answer your question, yes, I am a 'yellow dog' Democrat. I'm not TOO surprised at the way the poll is running (although there are obviously going to be SOME dishonest votes, like there are in every other DU poll), because many of Howard's supporters aren't hard-core Dems. :)
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. Yeah, and one other thing
On those rare days when something has gone well in Iraq, like the Saddam capture, Edwards hasn't run out like some other candidates screaming about how he was right and everyone else was wrong. When asked about it, he says he believed it was the right thing to do. I disagree but I respect him for sticking with it.
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Yes, he has a fundamental honesty that I admire.
:)
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #6
20. I have no idea
I have the same problems with Kerry that you do but I have this problem with Edwards.

Edwards for President; PO Box 300034; Raleigh, NC 27622; 919-785-1900
http://www.johnedwards2004.com /
Local contact: Christopher Smith; 614.268.4502; csmith1086@msn.com]

Freshman senator John Edwards of North Carolina has little record with the
lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community, and has taken few public
positions on LGBT issues.

Following an initial e-mail saying that the Gay Peoples Chronicles request
for information was forwarded to the appropriate people, the Edwards
campaign did not respond to additional e-mail or phone requests.

Edwards has been critical of other Democrats who, he says, want to duck the
values debate that is important to Southern voters. He says they are trying
to force the political debate beyond the guns, God, and gays rhetoric that
resonates among conservatives.

Political observers have said that a loss in Southern primaries would end
Edwards campaign.

Edwards web site has little on LGBT issues, and to find that requires an
extensive search. The most prominent item is a statement denouncing the
anti-gay Rev. Fred Phelps for trying to erect monuments in public places
declaring that Matthew Shepard had gone to hell.

Edwards was absent from a July candidate forum sponsored by the Human Rights
Campaign.

His HRC legislative score has improved from 71 percent in 2000 to 100
percent in 2002. The lower score resulted from Edwards avoiding
co-sponsorship of the gay and lesbian Employment Non-Discrimination Act and
the Hate Crimes Prevention Act.

As a presidential candidate, Edwards has said he supports laws ending
workplace discrimination based on sexual orientation and hate crimes.

Edwards was the keynote speaker of the Atlanta HRC dinner last May.

I want to be very clear, he told the audience there. I will listen to
you. I will work with you and I will fight to protect your rights and to end
discrimination against gays and lesbians.

Gay.com noted that Edwards Atlanta appearance was an improvement over the
response he got in Los Angeles last year <2002> at a gay political
breakfast where he was uninformed and uneducated.

According to the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, Edwards strongly
opposes same-sex marriage, but also opposes an anti-marriage amendment to
the Constitution.

Edwards, however, has no position on the federal defense of marriage act
and is unclear on whether or not he supports civil unions.

In a response to an NGLTF survey, Edwards said, I believe gay and lesbian
relationships should be treated with respect and should be extended benefits
under the law.

Then, Edwards told the Boston Globe that the issue should be left to
individual states.

CNN has reported that Edwards favors gay men and women serving openly in the
military.

end of quote.

In that list the lack of sponsorship of either ENDA or hate crimes prior to 2000 is appalling. I will have a lot of thinking to do.
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BL_Zebub Donating Member (473 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #20
38. Memo to Fred Phelps
Matthew Shepard's not down here. But I got a nice warm spot reserved for you and the rest of your so called "church" :evilgrin:
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
7. Edwards. Clinton redux?
Another charming southern populist willing to move right and endlessly compromise?

No thanks.
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. I don't think so
He's anti-NAFTA. Ant-gun. Pro-Choice. He's much more liberal than Clinton.
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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
10. I said I wouldn't
But realistically I would have to see how things actually looked in March. If we really are out of the running but Edwards isn't, perhaps I could be persuaded. Most likely I'm still voting and caucusing for Dean.

I have to admit that there's a part of me that would like to see Edwards debate Busholini. I think he'd cut * to ribbons.
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Yes.
I'm going to take Howard at his word, so if he says 'I'm out', then I won't cast a 'protest vote' when I can cast one that could actually help deny Sen. Kerry the nomination. I also think Edwards would rip * to shreds in any debate, because he's shown himself to a VERY skilled debater. :)
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
17. undecided
Edited on Sat Feb-14-04 09:09 AM by quaker bill
I know that I will not support John Kerry though. I need to read more about Edwards before March 9. I don't like the fact that he voted for IWR, but if he hasn't signed on to "Progressive Internationalism" like Kerry, I will consider voting for him.

If he has signed on to PI, then I will vote for Dean regardless.

I have had quite enough "muscular foriegn policy" thanks.
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
18. Edwards still - STILL - supports invading Iraq, how could I support him?
I don't know how any Dean supporter can support Edwards, yes, based on this one issue alone.

Let's hope Edwards is out before Dean.
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DjTj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. What's he going to do? Invade Iraq again?
He believes it was the right decision at the time based on the information he was presented.

John Edwards believes it is completely meaningless to second-guess a decision that happenned in the past. It's not like we can get in a time machine and undo what has already happenned. He supports an investigation into our pre-war intelligence and the Bush administration's claims and he supports bringing in NATO and the UN and moving towards withdrawal.

This isn't the 2002 election, this is the 2004 election. Nobody is invading Iraq anytime soon.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Edwards supports the Occupation of Iraq
Kucinich supports bringing the troops home ASAP!
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. That ignores the obvious
As Kucinich admitted at the NH debate, even his plan would only BEGIN to bring the troops home in 90 days, and that's assuming the rosiest of scenarios vis a vis getting UN support. EVERY candidate supports the 'ocuupation of Iraq', if by that you mean they do not favor unilaterally withdrawing from Iraq and abandoning it to internal strife and civil. war.

Get over it--- Kucinich's plan is not fundamentally superior to anyone else's!
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. "meaningless to second-guess a decision that happenned in the past"
g.w.moron thanks you for that mindset

if it is meaningless to second-guess decisions of the past, where does that leave us? what's done is done? If someone broke into your home and murdered your family, all for baseless reasons, and then said, "well, can't undo it, and no reason to say it was wrong" would that be ok with you?

rediculous
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DjTj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. I would support a fair investigation and trial...
...as Howard Dean said about Saddam.

The difference here is that there WILL be other opportunities for this murderer to to kill again, but there will NEVER be an opportunity for Kerry or Edwards, as President of the United States, to vote again on a Bush proposal to invade Iraq.

The IWR situation was unique and it's completely meaningless to go back over it if your goal is to choose a President. I could see it being a consideration if you're electing a Senator to serve under another 4 years of Bush, but when we're trying to replace Bush it is a moot point.

Bush led the country into Iraq and he is running his campaign on the claim that it is an example to follow in their foreign policy. This is a far cry from Edwards or Kerry, who are not going to be invading Iran, Syria, or North Korea.
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
19. Kick
:dem:
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
21. kick
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
22. No more split loyalties from me. I am going Kucinich to the bitter end.
There are no nuances or qualifiers from Dennis when it comes to the war and PATRIOT Act.

Dennis will bring the troops home.

Dennis will repeal PATRIOT.

Dennis will pull out of NAFTA.

The front runner will keep the troops in Iraq for years to come, hoping against hope that an Iraq version of Vietnamization will work. It won't!
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Fine. Just try to keep the bitterness to a sociable level
The Kucinich supporters, as a lot, have been the most decent partisans on the board.

In your quieter moments, though, try to chew over all of the votes made by Edwards and his general stances. I know you have a bee in your bonnet about the guy, but he's formidable, honorable, courageous and a person who could be a true rallying leader. Let not your enmity poison you on the man; he is one of our shining hopes for the future.

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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. I have no emnity towards Edwards
He has run a decent campaign, and he did take a stance against legacy admissions, a pet peeve of mine.

I won't support people that supported the war in Iraq and are still unrepentant about it.
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. How about in November?
Will you go 3rd party, if a pro-IWR candidate gets the Democratic nomination?
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Indiana is going Republican no matter how many times I vote
for the Democratic candidate.
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ozone_man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #22
39. I am going Dean to the bitter end.
I wish you luck, may the best write-in candidate win. ;)
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Woodstock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
23. I spent way too much time and money on the primaries
No more.

I'll save up for one nice juicy donation in July to the nominee.
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King of New Orleans Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #23
35. On behalf of the nominee, thank-you
I haven't given any money to any candidate ever, but I've got at least 200 bucks in my change bucket that's going to the nominee, whoever that may be, and I'm still saving my change.

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BL_Zebub Donating Member (473 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
34. ABK
'Nuff said :evilgrin:
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Hehe.
:evilgrin:
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
37. At this point, I am ready to wait it out and see who survives.
If Dean does drop out, I won't be ready to support anyone else. Clark was my second choice, and though I disagreed with Kucinich on some of his issues, he'd be the last one I'd have any positive feelings about, and with his numbers, I doubt he'll still be in the running by then either.

I will join the campaign of whoever gets the nomination, but I can't say I'd join anyone before it's decided.
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