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I think we should place the blame where it really belongs

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dansolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 12:30 PM
Original message
I think we should place the blame where it really belongs
On the DLC, for forcing Gore out of the race. Al Gore, once he realized that the DLC was not his friend, finally started telling the truth, forcefully and eloquently. He would have been the ideal candidate in 2004. Howard Dean was a wonderful proxy for Gore, which is why I ended up supporting him when Gore decided not to run. Both of them are honorable men, who spoke for a lot of us when our party wouldn't.
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eileen_d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. The blame for what, exactly? (nt)
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. heheh...
good question.

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eileen_d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. I guess it doesn't matter, as long as someone gets blamed.
"I, for one, welcome our new blaming overlords..."
http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/000399.html
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boxster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
24. Someone other than Dean or his campaign, that is.
Right?
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boxster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. I was kind of wondering that myself.
Perhaps Dean's failure to run away with the nomination?
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democratreformed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. Who do I blame for not getting what I want?
Of course, what I wanted was Clark. I blame many - not the least of which are my fellow Americans who did not vote for him. Does that mean I have something against them? No. Just that I am disappointed.
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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
4. Gore/Dean
as an independent ticket?
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. Yes, if they did that
They could render this country an incalculable service by absolutely guaranteeing another four years of Bush along with the possible solidification of a one party fascist system here. They would also confer upon our country the wonderful blessing of 3 or 4 more Scalias sitting on the Supreme court and many other wonderful things that we probably can't even imagine at this point.

If that is what you want, then I suggest that you strongly urge them to run on a 3rd party ticket this year.
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sadiesworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. I remember the response to a possible Gore run in '04 as mixed...
If anything , I saw and heard disappointment that he would not run.
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sadiesworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
6. Sure a Gore/Dean independent ticket, a Nader green ticket...
and 4 more years of Bush.
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molly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
7. Did you say forcing him out?
I thought it was his decision. :shrug:
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
8. The blame for what? Dean's implosion?
Did the DLC make Dean go out yelling in Iowa? That was the final nail.
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. eh, ok. n/t
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retyred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
9. Why is it "ALWAYS" someone elses fault?

retyred in fla
Good-Night Paul, Wherever You Are

So I read this book
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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. It's always someone's mother's fault!
LOL!
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. It's always someone's
penis's fault.:evilgrin:

Everyone knows that it was really Clinton's penis that caused Gore to fail at winning the White House.
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WatchWhatISay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
12. I have to agree with you dansolo
And I think anyone who doesnt realize that no candidate will get the nomination without the DLC's OK is pretty naive.

And I do blame the media for Dean's implosion. Compare his gaffes (some of which were not even gaffes, but just what a real candidate sounds like when he is not being handled) with all the unbelievable stuff that came out of Bush's mouth in 2000. They turned his mistakes into loveable signs of humanity. I am most disappointed that even Democrats let the media tell them who to vote for.
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Edwards4President Donating Member (339 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. How did the DLC get into the heads and the voting booths
of the millions of Democratic primary voters who are voting for candidates other than Dean? Did they put something in our food? Or did they send out subliminal messages through the media? And how did all of the Dean supporters manage to escape being infected? Were you guys born with some some special kind of DLC immunity that the rest of us don't have? Or is every non-Dean supporter just too stupid or clueless to avoid being taken in by DLC brainwashing?
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WatchWhatISay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Because the DLC is the corporate sector of the Democratic party
And the idea that they would collaborate with big corporate media doesn't take a leap of faith. Or subliminal messages. How else to you explain Dean going from about a 30 point lead to a Kerry running away with it in a matter of 2 or 3 weeks. And what was going on during those few weeks. The media constantly running stories of "Who can stop Dean?", Al From, President of the DLC coming on TV to criticize Dean supporters and "activists". The media took it that far because they knew the party wouldn't interfere.

And why is there so much hostility to Dean supporters? Don't most people here agree that our Party has failed to stand up and show a spine in the last 10 years. Do you really think doing the same old things and voting for the same people who have already show a tendency to capitulate too often, will get different results?
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Edwards4President Donating Member (339 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. You have yet to explain why only Dean supporters have escaped
being fooled by the DLC and media while the rest of us are just too blind to see the truth.

And why is there so much hostility to Dean supporters?

Perhaps it's because we're weary of you guys telling us that there is only one true faith - Howard Dean - and that this faith can only be manifested by slavishly following the infallible yet irreparably victimized Dr. Dean, not to mention the ongoing implication that anyone who does not worship at the feet of Dr. Dean (especially those of us who genuinely believe that someone else might make a better president) are incapable of thinking for ourselves but are ignorant sheep who have been brainwashed by the DLC and media, unlike certain Dean supporters who have perfect knowledge and insight into all things political.

That may be one of the reasons.
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boxster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Thanks E4P.
I'd say that you just voiced the feelings of a great many people.
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KFC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
13. I blame the DLC, the MEDIA, skull and bones, AND my ex-wife
Better watch out before I blame you.
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Edwards4President Donating Member (339 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Actually, you DO look kind of suspicious
After all, you didn't back Dean, therefore you are either a perpetrator or a victim of the conspiracy. And you seem too intelligent to be a victim, so you must be part of the problem.

And you thought you'd gotten away with something.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
17. I, for one was very relieved
when Al Gore decided not to run. For various reasons that I won't go into here, I found myself unable to stomach voting for him in 2000, and ended up going with Nader.

I believe that he should have been a shoe in, and have won so overwhelmingly that the election couldn't have been stolen, but that he ran such a poor campaign, and displayed such poor political judgement, that GWB was able do get close enough to steal the election. I also felt that he handled the recount situation extremely poorly.

I never really felt that he found a voice, or managed to articulate a coherent and compelling vision for this country that provided the kind of strong and stark contrast to Bush that was necessary to win with a strong enough margin that year.

I hated that I felt that way, because at one time I greatly admired him, and really wanted him to be our President. By the time of the 2000 election however, I had come to believe that he would be a very weak President, and would not be able to stand up to the right wing onslaughts in the same way that Clinton did. I feared that this would cause incalculable long term damage to the Democratic party. I kind of felt like we were in a damned if we do damned if we don't type of situation.

If the foreceful and elequent man that I have seen recently had run in 2000, I am convinced that he would have won handily, and with such a margin that the election couldn't have been stolen. He certainly would have had my vote.

I don't believe that he can blame the DLC for anything (and I have as low of an opinion of that organization as most here do). He was the one who was ultimately responsible for how he chose to run his campaign. I also don't believe that anyone "forced him out of the race", it was his decision to make. I believe that anyone who will not take personal responsibility for their own choices has no business trying to be President of the United States. We are seeing the consequences of that type of attitude in the White House right now.

I'm very sorry if I offended anyone by expressing this opinion, but it is what I truly, and with great sadness and regret, believe.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
22. I was crushed when Gore decided not to run.
He had already unified the party, why break it all apart again?
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