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diamondsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 03:21 PM
Original message
Hey! How about we have an ISSUE discussion?
What say you all?

I don't know about anyone else but all this natter about who should quit, who had or may have had an affair, what Coulter the toothpick bimbo said about who or what, etc. is really beginning to bore me.

In another of the so-and-so should drop threads someone keeps bringing up the deficit in relation to Howard Dean, which got me to thinking I haven't yet seen a rational explanation about reducing the deficit from all the candidates.

I'm personally inclined to agree with my own candidate, obviously. The deficit won't be reduced simply by repealing Bush's tax cuts. That's just assinine to even assume given that we're currently waging wars in two different countries with massive casualties on both sides. Social needs are already underfunded to the point of complete overload and ineffectiveness, jobs are disappearing faster than we can blink, and to date only one man has given me a plan that makes any semblance of sense to me.

Ditch the tax cuts, provide some relief to middle and low income families, cut the Pentagon budget by 15%, get out of Iraq ASAFP, renegotiate trade to stop the outflow of US jobs, and create a new WPA system to address two problems simultaneously. Now THAT could actually lead to a deficit reduction and even potentially a balancing of the Federal budget.

Anyone else got something to offer me?
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MidwestMomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. How about a government health insurance program for all citizens
Instead of the government, taxpayors and the elderly footing the bill for just Medicare, why not bring all Americans into the system so that it can be cost efficient. Insurance companies can only afford to insure the sickest of their members because the healthiest are also paying premiums. If it works for private corp, it should work for the government.

Medicare is too costly to the government, the elderly and the taxpayors because the population it insures are by age at greater risk of health care problems. You have to have a healthy population of adults in your system to pay premiums while not receiving as many bemefits in order to keep the system solvent.

Does this make sense to anyone else?
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DjTj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I agree.
...it seems ridiculous to give the hugely unprofitable segment of the population to the government while propping up the more profitable segment.

Health insurance just makes so much sense for the government to run.

However, there would still have to be some way people can pay for better care if they want it.

I have been thinking that national single-payer would be too big of a step, and there's no reason to believe would be able to do it right on the first try. Perhaps the governor of some state could try to implement a state-wide state-run program. Neighboring states may be forced to provide similar plans and eventually we would get national health care...Is this happenning to any extent up in New England nowadays?

just my two cents.
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tobius Donating Member (947 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. the issues are not driving the primaries- fear and
'electability' are.
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diamondsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Sounds a lot like Kucinich's plan.
Except it extends Medicare to cover everyone in the country.

Consider this, Universal Single-payer can be passed if the President issues an order to continue debating the provision until an agreement is reached. If the President isn't inclined to push for Universal Single-payer it won't happen because noboy will put any pressure on Congress. Most of the population wants it, and even WE won't put the pressure on the rats on the Hill to get it done!

That's why I support Kucinich. It's my way of telling them up there "Look I want everything THIS guy is telling you I want! Either you get it done or we'll vote you out and put someone like him in your place!"

The problem with insurance in the private sector is that they get to control the bottom line. In this case the Government would set the bottom line and there wouldn't be the concern about overhead and such.
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MidwestMomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. I pay health claims in the private sector and I've been trying to
sell this idea to my coworkers. I'm like, hey, everyone gets health insurance and we still have jobs. The only ones that would lose their jobs would be the CEOs. The 'workers' in the insurance industry would still be employable. Of course, the insurance industry will spend whatever it takes to keep insurance private. Insurance is very profitable if your not running Medicare.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. Shhhhhh! Discussion is no longer allowed!
The Iowa caucus was less than a month ago, but Kerry is our nominee!

If you know what's good for you, you'll get behind him!
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DjTj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. I believe Edwards has a good plan for taxes and the budget...
...We need to go back to providing incentives for production, and that means we need to stop taxing work over wealth.

The Reagan/Bush philosophy is to create a tax structure that encourages investment, but that trickle-down economics doesn't work; we should simply be encouraging production by lowering taxes on wage earners and increasing it on those living off of their assets.

Edwards also has some common sense proposals to cut the budget:

Reinstate real budget caps and permanently restore pay- as-you-go budget enforcement rules.

Use attrition to reduce the number of government employees and contractors, excluding defense and homeland security, by 10 percent over 10 years.

Close government agencies that have outlived their usefulness, such as the Office of Thrift Supervision.

Open more government procurement to competitive bidding.

End the excessive profits that banks earn on student loans.

Stand up to insurance companies, drug companies, and HMOs to reduce health care costs while improving the quality of health care.

Cut federal subsidies for major oil companies, mining on public lands, and millionaires operating farms.

Create a commission to examine and eliminate unneeded corporate subsidies.

Eliminate tax loopholes that allow companies to avoid taxes by renouncing their U.S. citizenship.

End corporate tax deductions for companies that buy "janitor's insurance"life-insurance policies on rank-and-file employees whose families never see a dime in benefits from those policies.

Require companies to explain the differences between the profits they report to investors and those they report to the IRS, and crack down on peddlers of abusive tax shelters.

Enforce our tax laws to collect from wealthy corporations and individuals who do not pay.


http://www.johnedwards2004.com/budget-and-taxes.asp
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diamondsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. I think under any other
conditions I'd like Edwards' plans. My thinking now is pretty well panic at the rate the deficit is climbing.

Edwards' plans are methodic and cautious, and I don't think we have time for methodic and cuatious if we want to save the country for our kids. It's time for drastic now.
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DjTj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. The American government is designed to be methodic...
...and cautious.

That's why we have so many checks and balances. We have always been afraid of rapid change in government a la English monarchs...

Although many of us here feel a growing sense of panic, it hasn't really hit the American public yet with full force and I can't see Congress passing the kind of sweeping plans Kucinich is pushing.

Our Republic is probably the most conservative and slowest-moving of any of the modern Democracies - it protects us from fascism but also keeps us from rapid progressivism.
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revcarol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. Wow, budget caps and pay-as-you-go, gotta be kidding!!
Budget caps and pay as you go budgeting, after Bush DESTROYED THE ECONOMY?

And where exactly will the money come from to pay for the now almost dead social programs, the social programs that people need because there are few jobs and those are low paying?

Don't see that he is going to reduce the defense budget. Closing the loopholes he describes above won't even bring the nation's head our of the water.

the Edwards plan needs revision.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. Because any DUer worth his/her salt knows the issues back-and-forwards
Now it's all innuendo and viciousness to convince people who they should vote for. :D
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Indiana_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
6. We also need to worry about peak oil and what
we're going to do about alternative energy sources to lessen the blow! Kucinich is the only one who has said anything about this!
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ShimokitaJer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Actually...
All the major candidates have endoresed the "New Apollo Project" for energy independence.

Check out apolloalliance.org
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. Fuck your candidate
:)
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diamondsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I am SO not going to say what
my first thought was! *ROTFL*

I'd either get a lot of EEEEEWWWW's or a lot of Whoah, now that's outspoken support!
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chocolateeater Donating Member (685 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. That's a nice thing for the candidate's
Press Secratary to say. ;-)
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diamondsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I'm taking it as a compliment-
and a damned nice thing to wish for the candidate.:evilgrin:
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GreenInNC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. I believe the
intern already did
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genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-04 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
18. Thank you for getting us on track. I notice it takes a Kucinich supporter
to start a discussion of the issues. I was beginning to think that election was about Botox and whether Dennis scored with Jennifer Tilly.

I think we need to kill NAFTA and the WTO and make an investment in the health and education of the American people while taxing the super-rich and the corporations who take advantage of their workers. We ought to fine Safeway in the amount of it's profits for the last year and give the money to the workers.

Pulling us out of Iraq will save America a ton of money that it could put to better use.

Dennis is right about the economy, Iraq and the death penalty and all other issues as far as I can tell.

I want our candidates to stand up for Kevin Cooper. He's innocent and he needs an independent investigation as the police were caught destroying evidence of his innocence. The state doesn't have a right to kill him.

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