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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
DianeK Donating Member (612 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 08:54 PM
Original message
not so fast folks....
dean is not an also ran by any means...if you all think that we are all going to just fall in line with the establishment democratic party you are sorely mistaken...both edwards and kerry are salivating for our support....guess what? they don't get it until they work very closely now with our movement to change this idiotic system..we are a force to be reckoned with and we are united
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. I agree. We still have our own agenda to promote.
I think the best way to do that is to vote for Dean in the primary. We need to let the convention know that it's a movement, not a man. Dean was the catalyst, not the message.
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DianeK Donating Member (612 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. absolutely
we will stand united in voting for dean in our primary and we will work together with the delegates that we accumulate to steer this sick crazy system..to hell with the media and the DNC!
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JasonBerry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. Movement?
What issues does this movement want addressed that aren't already being addressed?
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DebJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. not being addressed by people who will actually DO something
instead of just 'address' the issue then fall down in front of the repukes.
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JasonBerry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Funny
I don't remember Dean "addressing" any of these issues when he was a DLC member and governor of Vermont. Am I missing something?
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Like healthcare? Like intervention programs for high-risk kids?
THOSE issues?

Dean also didn't vote for the IWR, the Patriot Act or NCLB. Granted, he didn't have the opportunity, but our two "frontrunners" DID have a choice and voted on the side of political gain, not principle.

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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #12
40. It's really silly to claim that he didn't vote for something
that he couldn't vote for. Did Welstone vote for the Patriot Act for political gain?
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
25. You realize people CAN change, right?
NT!

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Polemonium Donating Member (660 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #7
46. Your missing the bigest part
Dean's platform was formed in large part by the people, not his record. A strange idea I know.
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Nazgul35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #2
44. oh I don't know...maybe
all the money washing around in the pockets of our elected officials by special interest groups who have shut out the rank and file Dems...

Why else do you think they ignored us with such impunity over the last three years....they figured that since we don't give them the cash they need, we don't matter...

OOOPPPPPSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Along comes the good Doctor from Vermont who showed the rank and file what they are capable of....now the grass roots of the party, which was destroyed by the pursuit of soft money over organization, is resurgent....

We're baaaacccckkkk!!!!! And this time we're pissed!

They want support, they'll have to earn it....

And they will of course, because one thing we know about politicos is that they bow down to whomever has the mighty dollar....except now it is the rank and file Dems who are going to be holding the strings....the way it use to be, when we were a Party with principles and values!!! And a backbone....
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Polemonium Donating Member (660 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
45. well so far we're talking about
reform of the DNC, getting corporate special interests the hell out of the beltway, advocating for breaking up media conglomerates, and generally holding the anointed ones to the rhetoric that gets them elected. These things have not been addressed to my knowledge by either Kerry or Edwards.
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. And you've got support in MANY places
NOT just among Dean supporters. There's an awful lot of DK, Clark, Sharpton and CMB supporters who agree with you on the issues, too, and we'll keep on fighting.

We got your back :)
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DianeK Donating Member (612 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. thankyou
we appreciate it so much
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mandyky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. Amen, sister!!
If the spine implants start softening, I'll just stay home in Nov. But I will work with the Dean movement to take back Congress and whatever else we decide to work on...
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
9. I watched his speech today, and he looked peaceful and liberated.
He is gonna give em all hell! as Harry Truman used to do.
He and we will have more power this way.

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avb7 Donating Member (95 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
10. Fight bush not each other
In a perfect world I couldn't agree with you more, issues are important and should be debated freely and openly but this is a whole new ballgame. Taking down the right-wing is a very ambitious goal and needs all the help it can get. No candidate is perfect and the Democratic nominee will need all the help he can get from all of us. The process will provide the candidate we must provide the support.
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DianeK Donating Member (612 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. i really want to be careful with my response to you but...
it was obvious to me and many others that this system sucks pretty much big time....the republican party only had to lift their feet onto their ottomans and watch..it WAS the DNC, the DLC and the media that did this..and oh...they did it SO well...but you know what? it ain't going to work because we are going to prove that it will be the people that decide in whatever capacity...if we can not have the president of our choice we will choose the issues that must be at the forefront...this country has no clue the force they are dealing with
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #10
39. Hi avb7!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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SangamonTaylor Donating Member (537 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
11. Your movement should continue by supporting the local candidates
I know the Dean rally I attended here in Houston had several local democratic candidates that were being promoted. Those candidates must still really need the help in their respective elections, and the grassroots movement should still support those people.

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John_H Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
14. I'll begin my pleasing the "Movement" by following Dr. Dean's example.
Tomorrow I will solicit donations from Pfizer, the NRA, and Phillip Morris. Now, as Governor Dr. Dean provided access to himself and other governors. Are there any Movement figures with whom I can promise a meeting?
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revcarol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
15. I'm tempted..we've got this slug repug Congressman...
Only half kidding...

Actually one of the greatest things to be done is to get us a Democratic Congress back!!We've seen how the national party just says,"You're on your own," or "You're not a key district so go stuff it," or "Unless you can raise xxx amount of $$, national won't commit money!!"

Our Congressional candidates are going to need MAJOR support because we know that most of them will be outspent by 4:1, or 10:1 or whatever.GRASS ROOTS IS WHAT WE NEED, AND THE DEAN CAMPAIGN ALREADY HAS THE ORGANIZATION.

What do you think?
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DianeK Donating Member (612 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. absolutely
that is the very change we are looking for..we must support those who are for the least of us..remember folks, if we do not strengthen the weakest link the whole chain is broken
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mandyky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
16. Dean grassroots still have the power!
Dean has stopped campaigning (for now) but if we write letters to editors and crow those grassroots, Dean can make a comeback! Wouldn't you all love to watch Judy Woodruff and Ironman Wolfie have to do some major mea culpas?? That alone makes me even more adamant for Dean.
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cosmicdot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
17. I believe Dennis K speaks for all of us ...
Edited on Wed Feb-18-04 09:33 PM by cosmicdot
I ask Democrats in yet-to-be-held primaries/caucuses to please consider him as someone we can, also, trust completely.

This may yet to turn out to be the most important election in American history. Everything is on the line, and the Republicans aren't leaving room for any compromises ... as Arianna suggested in "Bush Rouses The Sleeping Dogs Of The Culture War", filed February 18, 2004 http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=35487 , * is the Culture War President ... it's their way or nothing on the table. Edited to change from "nothing" to: it will be something ... and, it may impede our freedoms even more ... I think Ashcroft is just waiting in the wings to enforce the neo-con culture ... so, it'll be something ... just what is not exactly clear.

I find this Culture War line-in-the-sand a bit scary. There's enough Corporate Angst is this country alone is enough to propel someone to The White House, if they knew how to sing and dance the message at the same time ... or even acted as if they 'get it' ... and, start exposing the stress factors most non-have Americans face daily ...

Dennis gets it; and has put forth a platform which addresses such issues.

It's scary to me because it gives us a take it or leave it election. When we take it, I do want it to be in trustworthy and honest hands.

http://www.kucinich.us/issues/
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
19. the Dean people can name their terms
Really, the DLC has the corporate media, but the Dean fans have a solid 10%. Democrats cannot win without them, not even close. If the Dean fans can envelop the few percents of Kucinich, Sharpton, and disaffected and new Democrats, they can continue to set the terms of the debate.

Dean could sink Kerry in one day.
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DianeK Donating Member (612 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. in a heartbeat
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arewethereyet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. I don't think I get the point
are you threatening to not vote if you don't get your way or to vote against whoever you feel more slighted by ?

Failing to vote only negates your stance completely. If both candidates ignore you equally the same effect is achieved.

Perhaps its smething else you're talking about.
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Beaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #19
47. "Dean could sink Kerry in one day"????????????
r-r-r-r-r-r-ight....
unfortunately for the Dr., none of the primaries were held on that day.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
21. Really?
I tend to think of most Dean supporters as strong, levelheaded Democrats who will do as Dean asked and support the eventual nominee. Counterpoint that with a few shouters on an internet forum who mistake posting here for making a difference in the world.

DU is not America, and I have great faith in Dean supporters to stand up for their country without leveling threats.
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DianeK Donating Member (612 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. forget that fantasy...
this is a threat
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Well, since I'm totally not intimidated,
Edited on Wed Feb-18-04 11:23 PM by WilliamPitt
because I don't think you are representative of the whole, I suppose you should go peddle your threats somewhere else. I've met thousands of Dean supporters in 20 states - red and blue - across 40,000 miles in the last several months, and they are all united behind getting rid of Bush. You are in the minute minority within your crew, and you do your candidate a disservice.
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DianeK Donating Member (612 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. you are pretty much wrong, dude
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. I don't think so
I have a lot of personal empirical evidence to support my view, and all you have is your pissed-off word for it. So I'll take what I've got in hand, thanks.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. You're a base unto yourself
and not representative of the whole. Go be angry all you want. Fight the DLC until your face falls off. You'll be doing all of us a favor, but please don't try to pass yourself off as some kind of vanguard for an impending revolution. Dean supporters want Bush out, and they will get what they want whether you're on board for the ride or not.

As for me being 'media,' that's funny. I write for an alternative website. Do your homework before you sling silly insults.

P.S. Telling people to 'stuff it' is rude.
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DianeK Donating Member (612 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. i have read your stuff
it is obvious to me that you are pretty much status quo...
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Hee hee hee hee
Well, I'll let you have the last word with that one. Have fun storming the castle!
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Ficus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #30
41. HAHAHHAHAHAHHA!
Edited on Thu Feb-19-04 10:19 AM by Ficus
riiiiigggghhhttt.

sorry to interrupt. Go on, Will is making you look silly. I was entertained.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #29
49. Since when do you speak for Dean voters?
I thought that you spoke for Ke, er, ah, I mean Kuc, er, ah, Ker, yeah, Kerry. pretty sure that is the one. Whatever, through it all, pretty consistantly dissing Dean supporters, who you now claim to speak for. DianeK is closer to the truth than you know.
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Nazgul35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #27
48. there's no such thing as "personal empirical evidence"
Edited on Thu Feb-19-04 10:38 AM by Nazgul35
nice try though....

Out in real life that is what we call anecdotal evidence....same as the person you were responding to....

One's anecdotal evidence can never trump another....they are both they same thing....anecdotal....

edited for typo
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #23
42. Now that's a sure way to win support for your cause.
Edited on Thu Feb-19-04 10:26 AM by bowens43
Let's keep in mind that this so called 'force' wasn't able to win even a single primary. Threaten all you like, it just makes you look petty and most Dean supporters will follow Deans lead and support the eventual nominee.

On Edit:

I don't want to minimize the importance of the Dean campaign. He changed the dynamics of the Democratic party for the better. It's just this 'do what we say or else' crap gets a little annoying, especially when Dean has said in no uncertain terms that he supports the nominee and wants his supporters to do the same.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
31. I think Kerry recognizes this fact.
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revcarol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
33. Whew!! Have I misunderstood what Dean wanted?
I thought he pretty much wanted to keep his grass roots organization intact and use it for the benefit of the DEMOCRATIC party and to help individual candidates in a grass roots way.Correctamundo or no?

I didn't hear anything about reviving his candidacy by eating Kucinich and Sharpton supporters alive or fomenting a revolution.

Am I out in left field?
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arewethereyet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. sorta right
to the Dr's credit, he wouldn't give the DNC his email list.
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revcarol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. That's good.
And McAuliffe is probably steaming right now. HAH!!
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cavebat2000 Donating Member (347 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
34. Kerry's the worst....
YACK! IM supposed to vote for him!??
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John_H Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #34
38. No, you're supposed to enable chimp by witholding a vote from the nominee
So that 3 anti-choice supreme court justices will be appointed by chimp; so the logging, mining, oil, and coal executives running the EPA and DOE can keep their jobs; so Bush can keep appointing his wingnut zealots to the hundred or so commissions that make rules for everything from the media to health insurance; so the tax cuts to the rich become permanent; so Tom Delay doesn't have to worry about getting his legislation vetoed; and so the PNAC guys can continue setting American foreign policy.

Didn't you get Roves memo?
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funky_bug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
37. I think all three (maybe Al too, but I haven't seen it) issued statements
I think Kerry, Edwards and Kucinich all issued statements today, welcoming Dean supporters to their camps. It's not exactly Edwards and Kerry salivating. It's politics.

Support whom YOU choose, based on ideology and issues. From a Clark supporter to a Dean supporter, I know exactly how you feel. You can feel the breeze of the vultures. Just remember, GD is a strange little world, and not entirely representative of the entire party. Some are being quite rabid in trying to garner your support. You've got you tinfoil hat on, and you're ready to press forward. That's very cool... but try not to take it to heart.
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
43. it's far too late
Come November there will be many ex-Deaniacs sitting at home watching Friends reruns because the DNC and DLC pissed them off.
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