Difference between Kerry and Edwards - Edwards is FOR DEATH PENALTY

[kerryistheanswer]

and John Kerry has consistently been opposed. He is now in favor of using the act for terrorism-related crimes.

I'm not sure about all out there, but the death penalty has proven to be an INEFFECTIVE deterrant. The entire world laughs at us for having such a inhumane policy. We need to put an end to it.

[Superfly]

1. Well, that's something we have in common, then

[Superfly]

2. Edwards and I, that is...

[DaisyUCSB]

3. So am I and about 70-75 percent of the electorate

On this issue like a few others, I think "the rest of the world" that has another stance can laugh all they want, because I think they're wrong.

And the fact that a candidate who favored the death penalty would therefor NOT LOSE an election based on many issues more important than 100 thousand dollars a year of taxpayer money being spent on Murdurers and rapists, is also pretty compelling as well

BTW latest Harris poll 69/22 support/don't support

[Lex]

4. Clinton was for the death penalty.

And he was a Dem that got elected twice.

Sad as it may be to you (and me too), many Dem voters in this country are not opposed to the death penalty.

[AP]

5. There were no executions of Federal prisoners during Clinton years.

Bush started up the executions.

I would be very surprised if Edwards didn't stop them again.

(This is from memore -- Clinton did stop Fed executions, right?)

[DaisyUCSB]

6. And Dukakis was against it

red Dukakis, blue Bush

[kerryistheanswer]

8. this is not an election issue, its a moral issue

you are the same people that criticize kerry for taking the politically popular stance on wedge issues.

last time i checked, killing people was a bad thing. isn't that why the war was a dismal idea?

[AP]

11. Then why's Kerry for it when it comes to terrorists? That sounds like

a political choice.

[DaisyUCSB]

13. "the same people" no I don't have any problem with pragmatism

and I'm always fair to Kerry I think, although I will say Kerry is very obvious about being political and safe to the point that it really would hurt him.

And if I was against the death penalty, I still would prefur a presidential candidate in this important an election with so many other important issues that wasn't anti-death penalty. But, alas, as I stated I'm very comfortably pro-capital punishment

[ibegurpard]

7. I have no doubt that Kerry will modify his stance

if he perceives it to be a hindrance for him.

[poskonig]

9. I'm not a fan of the death penalty either.

It does not function as deterrent, and I question the appropriateness of it. The death penalty is an atavism from the good'ol days where witches, and later blacks, were lynched.

Capital punishment is not a make-or-break issue for me. I earlier backed Dean, who did support the policy, and now support Kerry, who is against it in most cases.

[Walt Starr]

10. That is definitely another tick in the Edwards electability column

Most of the country, me included, supports the death penalty.

[DaisyUCSB]

15. 69/22/9 for/against/undecided in the latest poll to be precise

www.pollingreport.com

[kerryistheanswer]

16. source??

[DaisyUCSB]

18. edited into post

http://www.pollingreport.com/

[kerryistheanswer]

20. the numbers are strange

why do majority of americans support the death penalty even though over 50% don't believe that it deters crime?

what other use does the death penalty serve?

also, they asked if innocent people ever get the death penalty, and over 90% said yes.

this country freaks me out sometimes.

[DaisyUCSB]

21. because spending millions if not billions in tax payer money

on people who will never contribute anything to society when the families of the victims of those peoples crimes would prefur to see them offed is what is not common sensical to us.

Think of what that money could be spent on to help prevent the kind of conditions that shape the committers of those crimes

[kerryistheanswer]

27. Well, those millions should be spent on education

Not on prisons or capital punishment.

You do realize that minorities disproportionately get the DP compared to whites? And you are aware of the innocent victims that came out in Texas last year?

What if you fry the wrong person?

[DaisyUCSB]

30. If you fry the wrong person, heads should roll, but that doesn't make

the entire practice any less practical and justified.

And you don't ban it because reform of it is necessary. The same argument on comes from the other side about affirmative action. There are alot of Theo Huckstables coming from rich parents who and rich grandparents who happen to be brown or black who get into a college over a poor white kid with better qualifications. Is that right? No. Does that mean all affirmative action should be denounced by people who think that Theo Huckstable doesn't deserve an advantage? No

Amend it, don't end it

[kerryistheanswer]

33. how do you amend it?

i've never heard of arguments to amend it. what can you do? there is always going to be a chance that you killed an innocent victim. how do guarantee 0%?

[DaisyUCSB]

37. If you've never heard of ways to change the death penalty system

then clearly you haven't bothered to want to learn. I haven't either, but just passivly I've heard of many things like garenteed DNA evidence etc.

[Walt Starr]

22. I have a one word answer for yout question

what other use does the death penalty serve?

Vengeance.

[DaisyUCSB]

24. that too

.

[GreenArrow]

31. vengeance -- a childlike emotional concept

.

[DaisyUCSB]

38. Yeah, those childish families of murder victims

.

[Iris]

43. Actually, many family members of murder victims who have

witnessed the execution of the murderer say they found no peace or did not find the peace they expected.

[DaisyUCSB]

48. And thankfully we don't base laws based on "PLENTY" rule

we base it on majority, at least in a democracy

[GreenArrow]

58. what we really should do as a society is make the relatives

of victims kill the perpetrators themselves. Eye for an eye! Blood for blood! Revenge! Kill! Death! Pay!

[Frodo]

41. Plenty of reasons.

Punishment for the criminals

Comfort/"closure"/Justice for the families and friends of the victim(s)

Even if it isn't a deterent for future criminals (debatable), it sure as heck "deters" the criminal from ever killing again.

We live in a country where (at least in theory) we are more willing to see ten guilty men go free than punish one innocent man, but it's at least POSSIBLE that innocent people have been put to death (never proven to my satisfaction). But I'm certain there have been far MORE innocent people killed by guilty people released from prison in one state for crimes they would have been executed for in another.

[roguevalley]

61. its about revenge.

[Leilani]

47. I agree with you on this

Also, Kerry's gun policy will not play well outside of liberal circles.

What is Edward's position on guns?

[Cocoa]

49. another tick in Kerry's leadership column

taking an unpopular position. That's how social progress happens, the U.S. will be that much more civilized with a Kerry presidency.

[Frodo]

50. "Taking an unpopular position"

AFTER getting elected is leadership.

Taking it at this point just allows him to continue to lead from the Senate.

[roguevalley]

60. most of the country supported slavery

I hate this issue and I don't respect politicians who support it. I may have to vote for them but I won't respect them. The policy is politically and racially driven and the poor pay the price of the class divide in the issue.

Just because the majority of the country support it doesn't make it right. As for the rest of the world, we rank with China and Iraq and Iran on the death penalty. GOod company.

Bush cheerfully signed his name on the death warrants of 150 people. He's a cold-blooded murderer for doing it, a serial killer. I don't align myself with those types ever.

This is not a plus for Edwards in my opinion. It might be a politically expedient position to take but it doesn't get me on his side. God, I've been searching for threads about Edwards that will help me find him a candidate worth voting for and this is getting to be too hard.

[sweetcee]

12. Difference between Kerry and Edwards - Kerry is PRO NAFTA

[kerryistheanswer]

14. Kerry and Edwards have the same voting record on trade

Edwards wasn't in the Senate in 1994. He didn't have to vote, which makes it easy to play monday morning quarterback.

The NAFTA issue is tricky because there's quite a bit of data out there, published by the non-partisan Brookings Institution, that shows that NAFTA created over 8 million new jobs in America.

This is a really tough thing to explain to people - its easier to illustrate job loss than job growth. That's why free trade is such a complicated issue - the politics around it makes it difficult to pursue solid policies - both ways.

[AP]

23. Not true:

Trade Differences
Thursday February 19, @11:38AM
http://blog.johnedwards2004.com/

Posted by Chris Winn

James Kuhnhenn writes about the differences Senator Edwards has with Sen. Kerry on trade:
Edwards, who came in a surprisingly close second in Wisconsin's primary on Tuesday, emphasized the nation's 5.6 percent unemployment rate in his campaign and blamed it on trade policy.

The loss of manufacturing jobs has been a key issue for Democratic presidential candidates. . . . In a conference call with reporters Wednesday, the N.C. senator insisted that "it's clear that Senator Kerry and I have a very different record on trade."

. . . the two split on a May 11, 2000, Senate vote on a trade pact for Africa and the Caribbean. Kerry supported it; Edwards opposed it.

Edwards also voted against two trade agreements last year, one with Singapore, the other with Chile. Kerry didn't vote on either.

[poskonig]

17. Edwards voted yes on the China bill,

the Vietnam bill, and the South American bill. Kerry nor Edwards have the moral high ground on this issue.

[AP]

25. And Edwards voted N on at least 4 others which Kerry voted Y(2) or NV(2).

see my last post.

[kerryistheanswer]

26. Explain to me how the Africa and Caribbean trade pact was bad

I'm not familiar with it but I assume that it opened relations with the U.S. and that region - a region that has been shut out of U.S. trade agreements for decades.

Have you scene life and debt? Are you aware of the conditions in Jamaica, Haiti, and Ethiopia?

Again, it could have been a bad bill - I'm not familiar with it.

Thanks.

[AP]

29. Probably because they were particularly bad for American jobs, or were

particularly exploitative of Africa and the Carribean.

I'm not an expert, but I heard Dan Schorr say on NPR that the DLC doesn't like Edwards because he has voted against free trade bills when the compromised the jobs of NC'ians.

But that was all he said.

[MrSlayer]

19. I'm for the Death Penalty too.

So this is not going to turn me off to Edwards if he were to get the nomination.

[Nicholas_J]

28. Kerry makes the best case against the Death Penalty

THe very large number of people who have been innocently sitting on death row because of the public lust for blood resulting in prosecutors and police picking up any likely suspect and making the evidence fit is a travesty of justice. In the last 10 years a full 25 percent of all people on death row have been found innocent on the base of new evidence,basically DNA evidence, and it is likely that another 25 percent or more are still on death row, but would not be if the evidence were available. The United States is the last of the first world industrialized nations who still engage in this rather barbarous practice, as most nations are well aware of the fact that it is very possible to put an innocent person to death. It is more possible in the United States. In fact given the statistics, is is more likely that an innocent person will be executed than a guilty one.

Kerry is the only candidate who has actively and closely watched the process in action, and so much more likely to be cognizant of the misuse of evidence, and the misbehavior of prosecutors and police.

As somone who has had their brother beeaten to death by the police (on a drunk and disorderly charge) and having the police, the prosecutors and the judges do everything possible to cover up the events, even threaten witnesses not to testify, I am well aware of the abuses of the legal system.

Perhaps if the judges, the juries, the police, and all involved in applying the death penalty were subject to it themselves if in any case they put an innocent to death through the abuses of their position, there would be some justice to the system. The fact that there are no unbiased jurors, and police or prosectors, the collective guilt of those who might put an innocent person to death would be the only just means of making sure that it is applied as equitably as possible. If you are not so certain of your beleif in the death penalty that if you served on a jury and found someone guilty, who was later determined to be innocent, and you do not beleive that at that point you yourself are not guilty of murder, then I find a bleeif in the death penalty just a bit too convenient.

[kerryistheanswer]

32. thanks for sharing your story

it's another example of how the legal system isn't entirely fair under certain circumstances. its easy to be for something unless you are truly affected.

[Xanth]

39. I am for the death penalty too

I do believe that people who have had someone they know get murdered, have alot of anger and helplessness. In this case the death penalty should be carried out for those families.

I also believe with all the new technology there should be very few physical evidence mistakes anymore. The better this technology gets the less time people spend in prison. They are either put to death or get out because they are innocent. In the end it's less money to the prison systems. And this leaves more money for programs to help fight crime and neighborhood development.

Edwards for the death penalty is a feather in the hat. He is not going to have to find the middle for votes.

[Iris]

44. "In this case the death penalty should be carried out for those families."

It has been found that most families in this situation do not find the comfort they expected to have after the murderer was put to death.

[GreenArrow]

34. If Kerry and Edwards are for the death penalty

then they should be willing to inject the needle, pull the trap, flip the switch. Oh, yeah, they can pay some poor slob to dehumaize himself while doing it for them.

[kerryistheanswer]

35. Kerry has voted against the death penalty

[GreenArrow]

36. unless one is accused of being a "terrorist"

whatever that is...I think it can be whatever the one doing the accusing wants it to be.

[MoonRiver]

40. That's a huge difference in policy. I'm against the death penalty.

If we could prove with 100% certainty that the perpetrators of particularly horrific crimes were guilty I might re-consider. But that absolute certainty will never be possible, so I'm agin society taking on the roll of God.

[tobius]

42. Name 2 countries in the rest of the world that allow gay marriage?

Americans don't respond well to other counties telling us what to do.

By the way, if people are laughing about the death penalty, I would not put much stock in their opinion.

[Iris]

45. why wouldn't you

take stock in their opinions because they are laughing at us? They are laughing about how impotent and barbaric we are. The death penalty is not solving our crime problem.

[GreenArrow]

57. they aren't laughing because we're funny

they're laughing because we're backwards and pitiable.

[mvd]

46. While I think some deserve it, I am against it in all cases

I want the system to be completely fair, so I must be consistent. We also have laws against murder, so I don't think it is the government's business. I've read in the newspapers about a shift towards support for the death penalty for very bad crimes - former opponents and also supporters are changing in the post 9/11 world. Kerry may not be hurt too badly for his view. Kerry earns my support here, and it's an important issue for me, but there are more important.

[Frodo]

51. "a shift towards support for the death penalty for very bad crimes "

Support MAY be increasing, but it wouldn't be right to call it a "shift in support" (implying that it has recently been close or even fall the other way).

Even Clinton knew where the American people were on this. He had to rush back to AK so he could kill some poor retarded kid and look "tough on crime".

This is not an issue that breaks our way. 9/11 just makes it worse.

[mvd]

52. There has been a shift

And I look at it like there's been a decrease in support actually. Considering where the country was. And, it's an issue that should be talked about. 9/11 has given people perspective. I happen to be one who has stuck to my complete opposition.

[Frodo]

53. But wishing doesn't make it so.

Kerry's "shift" on the issue should be proof enough. Politicians know how to stick their finger in the wind and see which way it is blowing.



The Gallup people show about a ten point jump in support for the death penalty since 9/11 - putting it back to about the level it was in 1990.

[mvd]

54. But that doesn't talk about degrees of support

That's what I'm saying.

[mvd]

56. Also, this link has various polls

That show varying degrees of support based on how the question is asked. This makes me believe that there's truth in that Philly Inquirer article I saw:

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=23&did=210#Gallup-5/03

[Frodo]

62. Sure it depends on how the question is asked (it's a push poll)

But even the link you gave which is adamantly ANTI DP and showed things in the best light possible STILL reflected overwhelming public support for the death penalty (not "in general", or "as applied", but as the appropriate punishment for horrible crimes)

When you get to pick the polling questions and STILL can't break the 50% mark you know you have a problem. Look at the 53%/44% split when "offered life without the possibility of parole".

They show plenty of questions calling the justice system into doubt, but never follow this one up with "do you trust the justice system to actually KEEP all of those murderers behind bars until they die?"

They show lots of "do you think innocent people have ever been convicted of murder?" which obviously slants further than "put to death", but they never ask "have any people sentenced to life in prison ever been released (for reasons other than innocence)?" "Have any of them gone on to kill others?"


When you drive the push poll and STILL lose 53/44 you know this is an issue you do NOT want to come up in an election.


You've got to love this party. You start reading about the religious right staying home because they're ticked at Bush so we go out and add "death penalty" and "gay marriages" to the issue pile. :eyes:

[Slice]

55. I disagree

I am now for Kerry and I am very much for the death penalty.

I think that we need DNA testing on all cases, but the death penalty is not used enough.

I disagree with Kerry on this issue. Murderers deserve to die, and I am a big victims' rights advocate.

[Rooktoven]

59. Count me in as for the Death Penalty too.

It's a plus for me in terms of philosophy AND electability.