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Tell Ralph Nader Not To Run (DC Rally)

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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 07:40 PM
Original message
Tell Ralph Nader Not To Run (DC Rally)
Just received an email from the Progressive Majority

Two things:

1) Tell Ralph not to run. Send him an email. Be respectful and polite.

info@naderexplore04.org <info@naderexplore04.org>


2) There is a rally in DC on Sunday.

Zap Action at NBC this Sunday, February 22, 2004

Place: In front of the gates of NBC Studios, as Ralph Nader enters for the Meet the Press taping

Address: 4001 Nebraska Avenue, NW, Washington, DC

Time: 8:15 AM arrival, the show starts taping at 9:00 AM

Who: YOU and everyone you know who cares about kicking Bush out of the White House. Bring your friends, forward this email, get on the phone, do everything you can to get people to Nebraska Avenue on Sunday morning weve got 36 hours to make this zap action a huge success.

What: Make Just Say No, Ralph! signs, Dont Do it Ralph! signs. Be creative, be respectful.

PASS THE WORD!!!!!
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. Do you think a multi-party system is a threat to the Democratic party?

If you do, and if you're right, isn't that something that would be more effectively addressed by changing the Democratic party as opposed to seeking to further limit what illusory shreds remain of the democratic process?
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. No, I do not.
George W. Bush's policies are a threat to my family, however.

I dig where you are coming from.

But I'll repeat: I am a Democrat.
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Then use the opportunity afforded by Nader to be a good Democrat

Listen to the message that is being sent.

If both Democrats and Republicans have excluded and ignored and demonized, trivialized, disenfranchised and generally dismissed so many voters that they are starting other parties, the Democratic party has two choices: either kiss those folks good-by, and send your own message that in America, your choice consists of status quo or status quo with extra hair mousse, or engage them. Clean your house and make your party one that does NOT exclude people who don't want the status quo.

Because the status quo is only helping a fraction of the fraction of the population who votes in the first place, and one of the reasons most people don't vote is because there is seldom a real choice.

Give them one, or watch them make one without you.
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. Where's Choice #2 ?
Edited on Fri Feb-20-04 10:37 PM by BeatleBoot
You said...

the Democratic party has two choices: either kiss those folks good-by, and send your own message that in America, your choice consists of status quo or status quo with extra hair mousse, or engage them.


There's like 2 "or"'s there. I got lost. Sorry. I don't understand.

on edit: I see choice #2 now - "or engage them"

Why do you feel like "you are not engaged"?
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. The choices are, give them a choice, or kiss them good-bye

Don't worry about them. They want a choice, they want deviation from the status quo.

Just dismiss them. They are mostly poor people anyway.

Bottom of the food chain. Voters are the largely the top 25% income tier.

These people who want change, who want a choice, are mostly too poor to make campaign contributions.

Just let them go.
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anti-NAFTA Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. No one hates the two-party system more than I do.
I even understand where the "worse is better" argument comes from, but do NOT waste your vote on Nader. The man is controlled by the right. He's not even officially a Green. I dislike both major parties, but Nader is a slime. Vote Socialist or something if you feel like wasting a vote (which I don't recommend). Just not Nader, please.
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. There is little evidence to support the theory of a causal relationship

between who gets the most votes and who takes office.

If voting will make you feel good, voting your conscience will make you feel better.

I have no idea what Nader is doing. If his decision to seek office or not is contingent on negotiations with political executives of a party with whom he is not affiliated, it is unlikely that he is relevant to any discussion of a multi-party system.
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absyntheNsugar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. Math lesson
OK...what happens if you take 100% and split that in two? 50% and 50%! Good!

Now, if you take that 50% and split it in two? Riiiight! 25% and 25%!

Now here's the kicker - How much is a majority if you have 50%, 25% and 25%? Right again, 50%!

The moral: The right is united against us. If we fragment like the Social Democrats and Labor factions did in Weimar Germany did in the 20's, we will find a Hitler of our own to contend with. And in that camp, I get bottom bunk.
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. Here's some more math

About half of those eligible register to vote.

About half of those registered vote.

Those who do vote are generally the top 25% income tier.

Both the Republican and Democratic parties have dismissed the non-voting majority.

One of the reasons that the non-voting majority doesn't vote is because they don't feel there is a real choice.

They are right.

The Democratic party consistently makes the decisions it feels are in its best interests.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Zookeeper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. I hope you're kidding!
Although I can appreciate your idealism (I voted third party until I hit my late 20's), you may want to contemplate the reality of the Bush regime.

Two personal realities of mine:

I have three children in overcrowded public schools, with the constant threat of even larger class sizes and the elimination of art, language and music programs.

I also have a daughter who was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes on her fourth birthday. She is now eleven and a half. To live, she needs 3 or 4 insulin injections daily. She also pricks her finger and draws blood to check her blood sugar 4 or 5 times a day. That's roughly 3,000 encounters with a needle every year or 22,000 since she was diagnosed. She also has to count the carbs of everything she eats and calculate the correct amount of insulin to inject. I could also make a list of future complications she may suffer. But, my point is that a possible cure for diabetes (and Parkinson's, MS, spinal cord injuries and maybe even cancer) is being held hostage by Bush pandering to right-wing "pro-lifers." There is a huge supply of embryos from fertility clinics that could be used in stem cell research, but Bush is determined to "save" them until they are poured down a drain or thrown in the trash anyway.

We need to defeat George W. Bush. I would vote for a trained monkey if I thought he/she would win. (Although, I'm happy to say that I'm actually excited about John Edwards, even if I'm most in agreement with Dennis Kucinch.)

Please consider how serious this election really is, it's not time to make a statement.
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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Who's making the statement
Hi! And welcome to DU.

You cite some serious concerns. Which way of voting addresses your concersn and which simply makes a statement? The way I see it, voting for a candidate who has the best record and the best ideas for addressing the problems of our time is the responsible way to vote. Voting for someone because he's not George Bush, is making a statement.

(P.S. You might want to clarify where JE stands on embryonic stem cell research
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Zookeeper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Good point, but...
we know we would have a better chance of this research happening with Democrats in office. We will never have a chance with a right-wing Republican administration.

Thanks for greeting! I'm happy to have found the site.
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iamjoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
4. Nader is Doing the Devil's Work
He may be an egotistical creep, he may mean well.

Either way, if Nader runs or attacks the Democratic candidate he is (unwittingly or not) helping Karl Rove with his diabolical plot to turn America into a one-party system.

Think I'm paranoid? In "Bush's Brain" a book about Karl Rove, the authors detailed some of Karl's dirty tricks to gain Repugnantcan dominance. One of them was to send money to Green party candidates when there was a tight race between the two major parties.
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drthais Donating Member (771 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
5. naderexplore site
..this has been out for a couple of months it seems
I went to it immediately () when I saw it
and put in my two cents
asking him to stay out of it please....

on the other hand, the word on the media today
is that Nader wants a voice in the dialogue
and wants it soon
surely he should have that
so he will run as an Independant
because he cannot get a Green Party go ahead until June
and he considers that too late
to participate in the message

so if this is what it is all about, thats fine
you have to admit, the guy is a genius

and I'm not worried at all that his candidacy
would help to re-elect B*
unless of course the voters in this country are that stupid
..IMO, anyone who cannot see the forest for the trees at this point
there's no help for

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absyntheNsugar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
6. If I only lived in DC....
I'd be there in a heartbeat!
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
8. If you write, include your full-name and address.
If you write, include your full-name and address.

The website says it will only pay attention to emails which do so.
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maxanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
10. instead of carping at Ralph
we ought to be thinking about ways to get the huge sithomeontheirass voter population into the voting booths come November. We could also lean on Kerry to be a better candidate. If those sorry assed DNC wads think there could be a lot of protest votes, they'd start paying attention, and forcing Kerry to stop his waffling and act like a person with some principles.

Ralph has the right to do this - and I am apalled that there are those who would deny him. What happened in 2000 is NOT his fault.

Go after the sofa spuds - they're the culprits. Every apathetic dillweed that sat out that election is responsible. As well as the entire state of Florida, the Democratic party for being so wussy about it, and of course the Supreme Court.
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iamjoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Blaming Ralph
Ralph has a right to run for President, and we have a right to voice our opinions of why his run would be disastrous for the Democratic Party and America.

Don't blame the entire state of Florida, although there was the issue of Harris and Bush using the power of office to influence the outcome.

Even taking in all the other factors, Nader was largely the straw that broke the camel's back with the election. If one-half of one percent of the people who voted for Ralph in Florida chose him simply because they liked him better than Gore (a statistical probability) then it is fair to blame Nader's candidacy for the Bush presidency.
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maxanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. and if the 50%
of the voter population had turned out, the ending might have been different.

Easier to blame Nader than to shoulder responsibility for the truth, people stay home because they have crappy candidates to choose from. Al Gore was a lousy candidate, who ran a lousy campaign. That is hardly Nader's fault.
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. 535 Florida votes + 1
And 9-11 probably wouldn't have happened...

Iraq definitely wouldn't have happened... 540 kids would be alive today.
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GreenNADER Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
14. Dean is done and we need a REAL change
If the GREEN PARTY can get just a few percent in each state, it can be a real party in all future elections.

I hate the chimp, but we need real change in this world and Kerry is just another Washington Fat-Cat. Kerry will not be effective with all the re-pugs in congress.

Sorry but we all must face the truth
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Zookeeper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Please take a closer look at Edwards
If we can get him more media attention, he will be a much more viable candidate than Kerry. I'm attending his rally tomorrow in St. Paul and am working to win Edward delegates in our March 2nd caucuses.

I have another message on this thread that expresses my personal concerns about a Bush win in 2004. My kids are in school NOW, my daughter has diabetes NOW, our civil liberties are being eroded NOW, people are dying in Iraq NOW. Jobs are being outsourced NOW. The Green Party is really groovy, man, but as you say, we must all face the truth (and reality) eventually.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #14
24.  You're wrong. Truth is Ralph Nader is a loser, an egomaniacal bastard.
Ralph Nader himself said last year that he liked John Kerry and Dennis Kucinich, both of whom have very liberal voting records and are members of the Democratic party. There are no new ideas Nader can bring to the table that are not already being discussed by our own Democratic nominees. This is disingenuous of Nader, at best.

Dean, himself, warned in his farewell speech, of the danger of voting for third parties and that we must keep our eyes on the prize--voting Bush and his crony capitalists out of office!

Voting for Nader would be like cutting off your nose, to spite your face.
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