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With Nader back in it feels like we're back in a Flaming Hell

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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 07:53 AM
Original message
With Nader back in it feels like we're back in a Flaming Hell
Edited on Sat Feb-21-04 08:01 AM by Armstead
Being a veteran of many Green/Dem/Nader arguments here, it feels like DU is going to be like Sisyphus if Nader actually decides to run. Same old unresolvable arguments over and over again.

As bad as the primaries have been, at least it was new names, and there was some possibility the Democratic Party might change for the better as a result.

Now, with Dean out, Kucinich marginalized and Sharpton discredited, it'll be back to the same old circular arguments.

For the record, I am ABB but I also defended Nader's role in 2000, as a necessary antidote to the Centrist Pablum infecting the Democrats.At least Nader brought some real issues into the campaigns, and I hoped the Democrats would listen.

This year I think Nader should stay out of it because we REALLY need to Boot Bush. I even sent an e-mail to his organization begging him not to run.

But I also think if Nader runs it'll be a case of the DLC's bad Karma coming round to bite the Democrats in the butt.

Oh if only the Democrats would "get it," and accept that there is a message and progressive agenda out there that the party ought to take up and bring to the mainstream in a clear way. That'd be how Dems could beat Bush, and make it possible to be both ABB and enthusiastic about the Democrats in a positive way again.

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patricia92243 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. Is Nadar definately going to run? I wish somebody would kidnap him til...
after the elections.
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maxanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. you are so afraid
of Nader that you would advocate a crime against him?
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
2. enthusiasm's not wanted, Armstead, only obedience.
Welcome home, I guess...
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Yep, gotta housebreak that ol Green Dog
Keep him from pooping on the DLC Corporatist carpet
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. it's harder to ignore a dog once you've been friendly to it.
Damn things want to go for walks all the time.

I dunno, my friend. The vision a lot of folks seem to have of the ideal DU - no pesky progressives hanging around to double-dip in the (mild) salsa, any damaging enthusiasm for issues frowned upon in favor of a cold electoral reality - has never appealed to me.
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Boy, you guys are chipper and cheeky
Props to you both :thumbsup:

Me, I'm annoyed with the stampede to splatter inane vanity threads showboating their purity of Nader hate. I'm on the other side of the world, so it's all I've had to look at for most of the day. It was like being invited to an all-you-can-eat Spam buffet. ***yechhh***
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. All you can eat Spam buffet
Arrgh. The image makes the stomach turn.

Roast spam. Curried spam. Cream spam. mashed spam....And for dessert Choclate Spam.

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Guava Jelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
3. I have only been here for a few weeks now
I used to argue with republicans on Aol..That felt great fyi.
But here It saddens me Because There is this sickening civil war here between my own people.I Agree with Nader on almost everything As i do with Kucinich.I disagree with certain issues regaurding Kerry and Edwards.But not so much as to risk having bush destroy my America for 4 more years.

I know argueing never converts anyone but my cats are getting tired of hearing me go ballistic reading some of these self destructive post/
Who was it that said "I am not part of any organized party i am a democrat"...I wish that was untrue
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buddhamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
8. The DLC 'getting it'
is definitely wishful thinking.

i am feeling right at home here today, just like old times.


Nader running is not the problem.
Before the news of Nader going Independent even broke,
people here were making declarations of note voting for the 'nominee' if that 'nominee' should turn out to be Skull and Bones; they still are btw, there's been a lot of talk by DUers of writing in their prefered Democratic candidate.
How is that Nader's fault? All he'll be doing is adding another "official" Name to the ballot, and possibly offering an alternative.

And let's not forget, Nader is only one factor. Has anyone writtn the Greens?



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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. like an old shoe, isn't it?
:puke:

Love the Roy avatar, 'mama. Is that new?
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buddhamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. being anti-materialism/consumerism
all i've got is old shoes, John.

gonna need new pair soon though, mine are starting to split apart.
brother can ya spare a dime?

I've had the avatar for about as long as you've had your green dog.
love the dog btw, and you know how much i love 'green'!

we've been here before, heh.




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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Four candidate race?
>>>And let's not forget, Nader is only one factor. Has anyone writtn the Greens? <<<

I was wondering about that. If Nader runs independently, and the Greens also run a candiate....Boy this place could become a bonfire if that happens.
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buddhamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. will you be wearing flame retardant suits, Armstead ?
i, for one, refuse to be slide into hypocrisy.
we at a major crossroads here with this election, but, i'll be damned if i'll hound and disparage people for voting their conscience.

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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. I'm going to try and avoid the whole thing...
But, like my bad habit of smoking cigarettes, I'm sure I'll get sucked in once again.

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Guava Jelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. I just hope people consider their head as their heart makes
the decision.
vote to prove a point or vote to deselect the chimp.
these are the only two options in my book
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-04 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Well as I said above...
The real answer would be if we could be able to support with both head AND heart.

That's not impossible. The Republicans accomplished that for their side. Seems foolish that we are unable to do the same.
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