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'After all, Obama needs to get elected and he will stand with anyone who can help him do it.'

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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-08-07 06:14 PM
Original message
'After all, Obama needs to get elected and he will stand with anyone who can help him do it.'
by Taylor Marsh

...Barack Obama has no intuitive passion on policy. He doesn't react reflexively. He only reacts after it's found to be politically advantageous or when his own image is in question. Look what he did with the Robert Novak rumor column. Obama turned, repeating Novak's swill, attacking a Democrat, even after the Clinton campaign emphatically denied any involvement. The truth didn't matter. It also didn't matter that there was no sourcing whatsoever on his column. The fact that it was Robert Novak didn't phase Mr. Obama. The reality that Robert Novak does nothing unless it benefits Republicans eluded Obama. If he could help himself by parroting the Plamegate traitor it was a no brainer for him.

It's like Obama's Donnie McClurkin politics of convenience. It didn't matter that the reverend believes in "conversion" therapy for gays and lesbians. Obama can simply make a statement about his support for the gay and lesbian community. Actions don't matter. After all, Obama needs to get elected and he will stand with anyone who can help him do it.

It doesn't matter that in the Illinois state senate, when votes on choice came up, instead of voting on principle, Mr. Obama voted to give others cover, because he was afraid a no vote might be too harsh for colleagues. Voting "present" on matters of choice instead of standing up was his out. It helped that Planned Parenthood and NOW got his back. But giving cover for conservatives on choice, while not standing up on principle for women voting no on legislation that basically gives fetuses more rights than a woman isn't a profile in courage. It's the politics of convenience. That it is a slap to a woman's civil rights to vote "present" on an important policy matter on principle never occurred to Mr. Obama.

So why not bring Oprah into a non-union house in New Hampshire? As an aside, Oprah runs a completely non union house herself through her television show. Do unions matter anymore to Democrats? It depends which Democrat your eyeing. The AFL-CIO has his back on that one too, obviously taking his word that he supports them, even though his actions belie the fact. Again, like McClurkin and his "present" vote on choice and civil rights matters for women, as well as his "market-based" ideas that include Republican plans, even on Social Security, he can always just make a statement, and his charm will mollify the masses....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/taylor-marsh/barack-obamas-progressiv_b_75933.html
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-08-07 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oprah introduced Obama to McClurkin, according to an earlier DU thread.
Edited on Sat Dec-08-07 06:17 PM by MethuenProgressive
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-08-07 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. He's done as little as possible to establish a record while doing as much as possible
to promote his image.

I really fear for our party if he gets the nomination.
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-08-07 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. That would make a great sound bite, because it is so true
:applause: Bravo
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-08-07 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Kennedy did similar things.
He wanted to be President, so he avoided some controversies.

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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-08-07 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Obama avoids every controversy
The only time I can think of that he took a controversial position was on IWR and that was because an important backer told him to oppose it
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 04:04 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. Like going to Detroit to introduce his agressive clean car proposals?
That was controversial and he had the guts to do it in the home town of those who oppose it the most.
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Progress And Change Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. bull. he knew that would be very popular with Dem primary voters
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. So Detroit, Michigan voters are pissed off at a senator from Illinois.
:shrug:
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Obama stands with the voters.
Its the industry he'll piss off.
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Progress And Change Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-10-07 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. it was so "controversial" it was popular with the voters!
;)
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Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-08-07 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
3. Bookmarking to read when I come back. Thanks for the post!
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-08-07 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. That is what is upsetting about Obama.
He is too immature to understand what he is doing. He is ruining any chances of another run at the presidency. I think that is exactly what is wrong with Edwards. People like him but just can't get around the fact he didn't win the last time.
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Amerigo Vespucci Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-08-07 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I thought the whole "disingenuous" thing was very immature
Sounded more like George W. Bush than Barack Obama. And I don;t say that as a Hillary supporter. I say that as someone who thought Obama was being immature.

All of the Oprah rallies in the world aren't going to get me excited about President Obama.

REPORT FROM THE FRONT
What She Cant Do Is Have It Both Ways

In an interview with NEWSWEEK, Barack Obama says the Democratic front runner is 'disingenuous.'
By Howard Fineman and Richard Wolffe | NEWSWEEK
Nov 12, 2007 Issue

http://www.newsweek.com/id/67934

NEWSWEEK: Hillary's team says she was ganged up on by men in last week's debate. Does she get or deserve special treatment because she is a woman?
OBAMA: I don't think that Senator Clinton would ever suggest that she should be treated differently because she's a woman. And I actually thought that everybody was very courteous in their disagreements with her. We had a debate in Iowa which George Stephanopoulos presided over, and for the first 10, 15 minutes people were questioning my qualifications for the presidency. I don't remember anybody worrying too much about that We're not running for student council president, we're running for leader of the free world.

How would you describe her response on the question of her First Lady papers?
Her response was certainly inadequate. When she suggested somehow she didn't have control over whether or not these papers were being releasedwhat we're talking about here is her husband's presidential library. And when she is making a suggestion that part of the experience that she brings to this office is her experience as First Lady, people have a right to ask some tough questions. She can release these papers.

So is she being honest?
I think she was being disingenuous.

What's the difference between disingenuous and dishonest?
You'll have to ask her.

Is she entitled to any credit for her years as First Lady as she argues her case to be president?
On those areas where there is a record of her having done work, she certainly deserves credit for it. What she can't do is have it both ways. She can't embrace every success of Bill Clinton's presidency and distance herself from every failure of Bill Clinton's presidency.
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laureloak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Pot - Meet Kettle
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-08-07 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
7. IOW
It doesn't matter what it takes, or who it hurts along the way, as long as it gets him votes.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 03:52 AM
Response to Original message
11. That's one reason that I won't vote for him.
I see a guy who has little substance and who is arrogant enough to think that with his tiny national and international experience he is worthy of the presidency. I do hope that people see beyond the facade, but then again, they didn't see through Bush either.........
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 03:58 AM
Response to Original message
12. Yes, actions matter and this article is deceptive.
Edited on Sun Dec-09-07 04:02 AM by Radical Activist
Obama's actions mattered when he co-sponsored a bill to add sexual orientation to the Illinois human rights code. He has a record of taking action to defend civil rights for everyone.

Actions mattered when Obama took a principled stand against the Iraq war when few others did.

Actions matter when Obama compiled a 100% NARAL rating for his pro-choice voting record.

Actions mattered when Obama compiled a strong record of voting with labor and won the support of the AFL-CIO over and over again because he stood by them.

I don't know who this taylor marsh idiot is but someone needs to tell him that Obama didn't magically appear out of thin air when he gave the '04 convention speech.

As usual the people painting Obama as a conservative make all kinds of strained arguments and spin, but don't point to his actual record. That's because his long record is a consistent progressive one. Looking at the fats doesn't support their argument.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. 'I don't know who this taylor marsh idiot is' - here's the "idiot's" bio:
Taylor Marsh has been writing on the web for 10 years, shifting to blogging and blog reporting in late 2005. Shes done years of investigative work that includes pieces like the bogus Iranian badge story, which she helped break open. Marsh was also one of the first to question Deadeye Dick's 30 yard canard, and has years of research into the sex trade business. Taylors book on that subject was excerpted in Net.SeXXX: Investigating Sex, Pornography, and the Internet. Dennis Waskul, a Utah professor and editor of the book, calls Taylor's book a great gutsy story about something that is normally written about from a distance. Marsh does comprehensive stories for The Patriot Project, including The Swiftboating of John Murtha, which was also seen on HP, and has blogged on firedoglake and Crooks and Liars.

In addition to politics and national security, Marsh covers religion, culture and relationship issues. Her experience was gathered through investigating and interviewing real desperate housewives, single, married and divorced women, religious of all stripes and lots and lots and lots of men (well over 1,500). She also had a stint as relationship consultant to the LA Weekly.

Marsh is a political commentator for TV and radio, seen on C-SPANs Washington Journal, and has been bombarding right-wing radio and its hosts since the late '90s. She first launched her own radio show in 2002 and re-launches it from her blog in September 2006.
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Alamom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Thank you. Very impressive. "Bombarding right-wing rado & host for over 10 years."nm
Edited on Sun Dec-09-07 07:59 AM by Alamom




edsp



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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. Sirota damaged his credibility severely with his articles about Obama
It looks like Marsh is going down the same path. People notice when you throw out too much deceptive spin.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Obama isn't a conservative...but he is using conservative attack techniques...
Edited on Sun Dec-09-07 08:45 AM by SaveElmer
What some might call derisively.."triangulating"

Appeasing the anti-homosexual Democrats by headlining Donnie McClurkin...

Using right wing scare rhetoric on Social Security...

Criticizing Hillary's health care plan from the right

Calling out well known and respected progressive journalists as liars because they pointed out the flaws in his health care plan...


And you are correct...actions matter...as does the lack of action...

Like not voting on Kyl/Lieberman while claiming it is of vital importance...

Like not standing up to the right wing sleaze machine in Congress by skipping out on the moveon.org vote

Like voting present 10 times as a part time state senator on the crucial issues of choice and gun control...

Obama has a history...when it is time to go on the record on the tough issues...he is nowhere to be found...

And his history certainly indicates he will use whoever he needs to to further his political career...whether they be sleazy lawyers and land developers, anti-gay preachers, or union busting celebrities...

And you know every politician does some of that...if you only associated with those pure as the driven snow, well you would be running alone...but when you are going to campaign on a "new kind of politics" or a "politics of hope" yet continue to use the same insider, "gaming the system" techniques that you not only promised you would not use, but criticize others for...it makes you a hypocrite...








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Progress And Change Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. great post. that should be a thread of its own!
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. If Obama starts to change his positions on issues
to be more conservative (as Bill Clinton did) THEN you can call it triangulation. As long as he stays progressive then I'm fine with a progressive who knows how to appeal to moderate and conservative voters. That's called winning an election.

I don't think there's anything conservative about facing the reality that some poor people don't want the extra expense of having to pay for health insurance and maybe they shouldn't have to.

Planned Parenthood in Illinois asked Obama to vote present on some of those abortion votes as part of their own strategy and his high rating with them year after year is proof of his good record.

Obama deals with the right wing spin machine just as much as every other candidate. Your arguments are nothing but spin. Don't project Clinton's flaws onto Obama.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. I agree with Progress and Change. This is a great post, Elmer. nt
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-10-07 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Thanks!
:hi:
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
17. "Barack Obama has no intuitive passion on policy" - Duh
That's the sorry state of our party these days. The GOP is the party of passion. Only problem is they are passionate about fucked up stuff. On our side, there isn't any passion about ideas or principles. Its about winning, strategy and numbers.

I know you are upset about this McClurkin thing. But selling out constituent groups is not a new thing in our party. We need to take our party back and start supporting candidates who have real beliefs and will stick to them. That's the answer.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. That's why he was organizing around issues in his 20's.
Yep, he took a low wage job organizing communities around political issues in his 20's because he has no passion about issue. Riiiiiiight. :rofl:
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. He's not in his 20s anymore
I can see that you are passionate about your guy, and that's great. But a lot of people go into politics to make a difference. Then 20 or 30 years later things look a little different.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. How dare you interrupt their Obama-phobic spewfest with some kernels of common sense.
:eyes:
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
28. Thanks for posting this, Bluebear.
It doesn't matter that in the Illinois state senate, when votes on choice came up, instead of voting on principle, Mr. Obama voted to give others cover, because he was afraid a no vote might be too harsh for colleagues.


I guess old habits die hard. Now that he's a US Senator he simply takes cover, period, and doesn't show up for many of the hard votes.
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