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John Edwards doesn't own any guns.

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DjTj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 02:07 AM
Original message
John Edwards doesn't own any guns.
I was at an event with Elizabeth Edwards today, and an animal rights activist asked whether or not John Edwards was a hunter. Elizabeth said that they do not keep any guns in their home and John has never hunted. The woman who asked the question felt like that was a good reason to support Edwards over Kerry.

Kerry is a hunter. Edwards does not own any guns. Kucinich refuses to eat any animal products. Has this played into anybody's choice of candidate?
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. does edwards eat meat ?
kerry eats what he hunts.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
2. Most "Lifestyle Issues" are crap
There may be a few that are important, like whether or not a candidate is an out-of-control alcoholic or a Nazi, but things like hunting, diet, hairstyle, sex habits, etc., are nonsense.

This isn't to flame you, DjTj -- I see it all the time here on DU, often concerning vegetarianism, the precise meaning of "Christianity", and even about hunting and firearms ownership. And who does it help?

The right wing uses lifestyle issues as wedge issues. We on the left ought not to play into them. Divide and Conquer is still an active strategy and we shouldn't forget that for a moment!

--bkl
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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. Well the lifestyle issue works so well. Why else would we have Bush.
I mean the man would steal us all blind but with a Bible in his hand. That he has no brain does not count.It has been done before in many countries and who knows if this country will wake up. It also worked for Carter.He seemed to be a good man but did not do well as President.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 06:39 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Right, but ...
... lifestyle issues mainly work with people who are hostile and fearful of "outsiders". History bears this out. Progressive movements have traditionally been inclusive; conservative or fascistic ones have been exclusive, segregationist, and based on worship of one's own "tribe".

Carter only did well with the fundamentalist "tribe" because he is a fundamentalist. But even within Fundamentalism, there is a clear-cut split between the Dominionists and the Evangelicals -- and Carter eschewed Dominionism. (To clarify, Dominionists want to take over the world in the name of Jesus, and Evangelicals usually distrust political power and mainly want to spread the Gospel.)

Personally, I think that the Dominionists have just about shot their theonomic wad. But that's another thread.

--bkl
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. Well said. nt
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truhavoc Donating Member (820 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 02:15 AM
Response to Original message
3. Makes me less favorable to Kerry
I've never seen the point of hunting, I think that killing animals for sport with a gun isn't exactly fair. I'd support bow and arrow hunting, or spear hunting, or hell something like slingshot hunting, but nothing with guns.

I support Edwards in not having a gun in his home, it seems like a good idea. Personally the people that feel they need a gun for protection either are deluded in thinking that the gun would actually protect them against someone who meant to kill them, otherwise they just kill those who were not a direct threat (say an unarmed thief).

As for Kucinich, I have the utmost respect for vegetarians. Its a much healthier way to eat, and I am especially impressed he can maintain this lifestyle in Ohio. I live here and I think there are maybe three vegetarian restaurants! Maybe if I lived in Cali I'd have the willpower.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. kerry eats what he hunts
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truhavoc Donating Member (820 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Does not really matter
The last thing necessary is for a Senator or to have to hunt for his own food. lol
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. he doesn't "have" to do it
but i say this because if the issue is killing animals , then unless john edwards is a vegetarian or vegan as kucinich i don't see much difference. since kerry eats what he hunts, and if edwards eats meat it involves k illing animals also.
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atre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 03:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. The antlers, too?
Edited on Sun Feb-29-04 03:28 AM by atre
Let's not pretend that Kerry is some Native American living off the land. This a man who throws away more caviar each year than most people will ever see their entire lives.
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tameszu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
31. LOL
Hey, I eat the antlers.
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. In defense of gun hunting,
I don't hunt but just from what I know, the gun is most humane because it is the most likely to wound the animal mortally. If you stab it with a spear, or shoot it with a sling or an arrow you are more likely to wound the animal and leave it in pain or to die of an infection.
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mobuto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
27. Guns are better
To be honest, I don't see the "point" of hunting either. I've never done it and I don't think I'd enjoy it. But in defense of gun-hunting,

1. Guns are far more humane than the alternative. Bows or spears tend only to wound animals, which then die of loss of blood after experiencing extreme pain. That's not an improvement.

2. Hunters support the preservation of open lands and are thus allied with environmentalists, and opposed to unrestrained development, logging, etc.

3. Hunters manage the severe overpopulation of select species, such as white-tail deer which are a real environmental scourge.

4. Hunting is popular in poor, rural areas that have been hurt badly by the Bush recession and should, by any rational analysis, vote Democratic. But in many cases they haven't been, in recent elections. Why? Because for a variety of reasons, they've come to the conclusion that Democrats are anti-hunting. That's a big reason for why Gore lost West Virginia, Virginia, Tennesee, Georgia, New Hampshire, Arkansas, Louisiana and Kentucky. All of those states could have gone Democratic in 2000, and all of those states routinely elect local Democrats who support hunting.
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Xanth Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
29. I've never seen the point of hunting
There is a bow season before gun hunting. I don't like killing just to kill either. I've been deer hunting with friends and can never shoot the deer. I actually enjoy watching the deer play around the feeder. When I do dove hunt I usually give the dove to the other hunters. I am really just too lazy to clean the animals. I do eat meat though and own guns.

"Personally the people that feel they need a gun for protection either are deluded in thinking that the gun would actually protect them against someone who meant to kill them, otherwise they just kill those who were not a direct threat (say an unarmed thief)."

I do own a handgun and a license to carry. The gun will only protect me if I am ready to defend myself. And if an unarmed thief breaks into my house and threatens my family he will die. You can throw a toothbrush if you want.

I don't actually believe that Edwards doesn't have a gun somewhere. It may be in his Mercedes. He is from the south. Don't you think his son Jack is going to want a red rider BB gun someday. That where the father and son bond will take off.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
5. Charlton Heston, who flaunts gun ownership --
-- would definitely repel me. Edwards is a candidate who does not flaunt gun non-ownership. He's several steps removed from the controversy and keeps a cool head to boot.

My uncle hunted and fished. I grew up fishing but don't fish anymore. Kerry hunts. Teddy Roosevelt hunted.

A candidate's gun or no-gun position won't switch my vote unless it's to vote against a Heston-like clone.
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 03:15 AM
Response to Original message
9. The "I'm just as much of a man as you" approach is annoying
Edited on Sun Feb-29-04 03:18 AM by PurityOfEssence
Paul Begala always has to "out-male" the righties and revel in how he does sportkilling too. I don't buy John Kerry's butch hunter posturing any more than I do the various costumes he wears to different types of events. To his credit, I'll bet Kerry doesn't really like sportkilling, I just think he's doing some bad acting. The guy's got his heart in the right place, but man, is he a stiff, and if he's going to go on with the all things to all people crap to get elected, he'd better improve his schtick.

Yes, sportkilling is an ethical failing. Eating meat while not hunting is certainly a version of denial or avoidance--count me in that group--but actively going out for enjoyment to destroy a life is not enlightened, to say the least. I can't even understand it. I still remember seeing two kids shoot a rabbit with an air rifle when I was in grade school, and it was just hideous.

Sportkilling comes in degrees, like everything else; Cheney killing 400 birds in one outing is pathological, and betrays a feeling of superiority. The people who are hunters are a fine lot to join with: Bush 1, Cheney and Scalia. Whenever I hear that someone's a hunter, it's like a light switch for me.

This is precisely what I'd have expected from Edwards; the way he expressed his gun control stance is that he grew up in a part of the country where everyone had guns. I presumed that meant he wasn't one of them at the time, and this is yet another example of his finesse.

It's endlessly sickening how every male candidate has to be one of the boys. For once, I'd like to see a candidate who had no interest in sports, but to betray that would be like saying that you weren't married, or didn't have a pet or a religion.

Edwards is his own person; for those who are rankled by his attitude about Gay Marriage, a little reflection on what growing up a Methodist kid in a small town in the South is like will show how far he's come.

The Democratic Party is poised on it's traditional leitmotif of idiocy: they seem hellbent to throw away the best candidate they've had in forty years, and for a collection of non-reasons: bandwagon frenzy, war hero infatuation, fear of uncertainty and stultifying party insider meddling. It's a fine sport: shooting ones own foot with skill and precision. Pull.
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Columbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 04:25 AM
Response to Original message
11. Edwards on guns
http://www.ontheissues.org/2004/John_Edwards_Gun_Control.htm

"I grew up in the rural South. Everyone around me hunted, everyone had guns. I respect and believe in people's Second Amendment rights. That does not, however, mean that somebody needs an AK-47 to hunt. It does not mean that somebody who's been convicted of a violent crime should be able to walk out of prison, walk across the street and buy a gun. It does not mean that we shouldn't take every step that we can take to keep guns safe and keep guns out of the hands of kids. So, my belief is, first, I defend people's Second Amendment rights, but I don't think it's without limit."

"It's very important for us as Democrats to understand that where I come from guns are about a lot more than guns themselves," said John Edwards. "They are about independence. For a lot of people who work hard for a living, one of the few things they feel they have any control over is whether they can buy a gun and hunt. They don't want people messing with that, which I understand."
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Mr.Green93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. it is not about hunting
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Columbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #18
34. I agree
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 04:34 AM
Response to Original message
12. Yea, well Edwards is for death penalty and Kerry isn't
Which position is more progressive.

I agree with post #2 in this thread.
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 05:56 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Maybe he can have Kerry shoot them for him
Just a thought...

Don't forget, there are lefties like me who are on the fence about the Death Penalty. I've come around with time to be against it because of the finality--hence irreversibility--of it, the unfair application and so on, but in essence, it's still not an easy question. The only way you can assure that someone who likes killing never kills again is to make sure they don't exist. Do we have the right? Think of it as group self-defense. They've crossed an extremely important line, and doing so have essentially declared themselves at war with the human race; at that point, does society owe them anything, or does society owe its innocents a guarantee of protection.

A lot of my personal feelings on this stem from an extreme intolerance for violence and personal Agnosticism. Not believing in an afterlife makes life itself indescribably precious, and there's no "out" of some ultimate whatever. Much as those for the Death Penalty are tarred as unthinking vengeful primitives, there are arguments for it, and it's one of the "big questions" in life. Is it doing us a favor to preserve the existence of a thrill killer? 50 years in prison offers lots of opportunities to kill again, and for those who really dig it, a way can be found.

Personally, I'd say that anyone with a glib answer about the Death Penalty is missing the point.

Hey, maybe Kerry can just shoot the Terrorists; he HAS said that he's for the Death Penalty for them.

My Mom (a Presbyterian) was always against the Death Penalty, except for cases of treason; deliberate mass murder didn't warrant it for her, but betrayal of the nation did. My Dad (a Scientist and dabbler in religion who's now back in the fold as a Lutheran) has always been against the Death Penalty. My sister, a longtime Southern Baptist who's recently jumped ship back to Presbyterianism is ambivalent on the subject. Ambivalence is a very reasonable state on an issue like this...
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. Well said
I used to be for the death penalty in some cases, but I'm against it now, too - for those reasons and more. Terrorists certainly wouldn't get any sympathy from me, and those are the ones Kerry wants to use it on. Ambivalence is a fine position for a politician to have, because they go into each case with an open mind.
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Piperay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 05:35 AM
Response to Original message
14. I commend him for that...
find it really impressive. I am actually thinking about voting for Kucinich in the CA Primary because I like his stands and the different kind of person he is. I had planned on voting for Clark but since he is out I think I will give my vote to DK. :-)
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DaveSZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Gun Ownership
Edited on Sun Feb-29-04 06:01 AM by DaveSZ
Is not nonesense since many people who would otherwise vote Democrat don't because of the gun control agenda of some in our party.

Why do you think Al Gore lost the Democratic state of W. Virginia?

Gunowners.

I'm tired of being the minority party, so I'd like to see us drop the gun control thing for the most part.
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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Gore lost West Virginia because of mountaintop mining
West Virginia is an antienvironmental state. People have always been so desperate for a good job that they have let corporations turn it into one of the most polluted states in the nation.
If the gun issue is a so potent, why 8 time endorsed by the NRA Howard Dean not the candidate?
It is a shame that the American president is expected to fire a gun in the air like Saddam Hussein.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. But Dems overwhelmingly support sensible gun control.
Not elimination, but strict licensing and sales/purchas control.

Gunowners seem to think we must conform to their way of thinking, but it ain't gonna happen. If it does, this lifelong Democrat goes Green.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
20. No. My "gun" vote is based on their support for strict licensing and
sales/purchase control.

In good conscience, on that issue, they can all get my vote, I'm happy to say.
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Fla_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
22. It doesn't bother me if he doesn't own any
just as long as it doesn't bother him if I do.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
25. I will say I have more respect for him for not owning any guns
Dennis doesn't eat meat...Dennis also armed himself as Mayor of Cleveland...so make what you will.

I respect Dennis for his actions too, by his own admission he was nearly assassinated as Mayor, so I understand.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
26. It's not the choices, it's about the related policy.
Kerry may hunt, but he's advocated strong licensing and control of sales and purchase.

Edwards is for slightly less control, Kucinich just slightly more.

As long as they stand up to the brownshirts of the NRA (and piss 'em off as well; they've all done that!), I'm fer 'em.


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tryanhas Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
28. Edwards hunted when he was growing up...
...I believe.

I think he said it at the debate right before the New Hampshire Primary when they asked him about guns.
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tameszu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
30. Wuss
(Just kidding!) =)
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Waverley_Hills_Hiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
32. no.
...but a good campaign ad would be Kerry in hunting gard, w. a rifle, bagging a deer.

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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
33. Kucinich is a vegetable murderer
Edited on Sun Feb-29-04 03:57 PM by zulchzulu
All those poor vegetables that were just sitting on the ground or hanging from trees were violently pulled from their roots and thrown into baskets and piled on each other. Soon they are shoved into boxes or suffocated with corporate plastic.

Then they were thrown into trucks and trains without any rights. Then brought home only to be stored in refrigerators and then violently cut into pieces before being drowned with corporate salad dressings.

Then eaten by humans while sitar and bongo music is playing. Hypocrites!

Sad, sad, sad.

/sarcasm
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arewethereyet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
35. I don't hold it aginast Edwards, hunting is not for everyone
Dennis doesn't eat meat ? Good, more for me !

Kerry hunts ? Good for him but how does this make him stop taking both sides of any issue ?
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littlejoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
36. Shouldn't we have a little tolerance of diversity here?
I don't hunt. Never cared to. But I do not disassociate myself from people that do.

I respect John Edwards for his view on hunting, and his right not to own guns. I respect John Kerry's right to own guns.

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