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A 1000 Rick Warrens Can Speak If Rep. Hilda Solis Can RUN Labor

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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 02:44 PM
Original message
A 1000 Rick Warrens Can Speak If Rep. Hilda Solis Can RUN Labor

I am going to be blunt. Who cares if a gay bashing preacher reads an invocation? Obama is the president of everyone, even gay bashers and right wing Christians. If he chooses to represent them by giving them a prayer at the inauguration, then I think he has made a good decision.

Meanwhile. Rep. Hilda Solis will be running the Department of Labor according to this report in the Washington Post.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/18/AR2008121802195.html?hpid=topnews

Words can not describe how I feel.

:party: :toast: :party: :toast:

Here is a list of Rep. Solis's legislation in the 109th Congress.

http://solis.house.gov/congress/legislation_2006.shtml

I am absolutely overwhelmed. Except in places like Houston and Austin, you do not see this kind of progressive record in a member of Congress from Texas. Her commitment to workers' right and to environmental justice is amazing! For example:

H.Amdt. 844 – Protecting Community Right to Know – HOUSE PASSED
This amendment was offered on the House floor during consideration of H.R. 5386, the Interior-Environment spending bill. As passed, the amendment would prevent the EPA from finalizing or implementing proposed changes to the Toxic Release Inventory program, a program designed to ensure communities know about those most toxic pollutants being released or transported through their communities. This amendment passed 238 – 187 and was cosponsored by Frank Pallone, Jr. Senate action is pending.


Here is a link about her labor record. She scored 100% from the AFL-CIO on labor issues.

http://www.ontheissues.org/CA/Hilda_Solis_Jobs.htm

Here is more on Rep. Solis from wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilda_Solis

Solis essentially won election to the office when she defeated incumbent Congressman Matthew G. Martinez in the Democratic primary. Martinez, who had been a Congressman for 18 years, lost by a 69% to 31% margin. Martinez was deemed too conservative by many of his constituents, as he supported the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), opposed gun control, and supported bans on specific abortion procedures and on gay marriage.

snip

Solis has referred to the current President George W. Bush as simply "Bush", saying "It is time for Bush to face reality." She was chided by California Representative Duncan Hunter, who told her that "it is appropriate when referring to the President of the United States be he Democrat or Republican to refer to him as the President"

Snip

Solis identifies herself as a Roman Catholic; she is also pro-choice. Hilda Solis, along with 47 other Catholic members of Congress, sent a letter to Cardinal Theodore McCarrick of Washington D.C. in order to dissuade him from refusing Catholic Congressmen the sacraments, due to their pro-choice legislative voting. <2> The Congresswoman also signed a "Statement of Principles," released to the public on February 28, 2006, which affirmed Catholic Democrats' commitment to their faith, but said that they disagreed with the Church on some issues. They stated that on those issues, such as abortion rights, they decided to follow their conscience instead of the Church teachings.


According to another site, she comes from a union family.


What a switch from Mrs. Sen. Mitch McConnell aka Elaine Chao, Bush's Secretary of Labor, previously of the Heritage Foundation.

This is much more significant than expressing sympathy for 250 laid off workers who were denied their severance---which was a bold move in itself. President-elect Obama has signaled that his administration will use the Department of Labor as it was intended to be used----to enforce fair labor practice laws. So much for the attempts by the Bush administration and the press to intimidate Barrack Obama into being a good little corporate lackey with their trumped up "scandals". Our new president may talk softly, but he has a will of steel.
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jakem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. You must be on the wrong forum.

You are looking at the BIG PICTURE...

:hi:
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
57. LOL!
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Spryboy Donating Member (77 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
75. Yeah, because it's so cool to throw people under the bus!
Especially people who are bloodied and pissed off already at having their existing civil rights stripped away from them, via California's Proposition 8. Sure, why not, PILE ON! They're only faggots. They should know their place, and not get up set when used and abused for political gain. At least you got one person you liked in the cabinet. That's all that's important, right? Not showing respect for civil rights and minorities. It's perfectly okay to give a huge platform, respect, and praise to a horrible bigot, as long as you aren't personally affected, and it's just those queers. I mean, who cares, right?

Would you be okay with trading a cabinet post for 1000 Grand Dragons of the KKK or Aryan Nation leaders to have a huge public stage? Why is it it's perfectly okay for anti-gay bigots to be treated to world-wide platforms and given an air of legitimacy and respect, but anti-semetic or racist bigots would NEVER BE TOLERATED in the same situation?

And you people call yourselves progressives. I'm thorougly disgusted with you. All of you.

You don't trade civil rights for a cabinet post. This thread is deeply offensive on every level. Shame on you.
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RollWithIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #75
89. Jesus Christ, it's a PRAYER
Rick Warren isn't going to be in charge of anything. He's saying a freaking prayer.
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Mother Of Four Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #75
90. Uhm-

Wow you really assume alot.

Shame right back at you.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #75
93. Get the fuck over yourself.
Holy shit...

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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
77. and still missing it. How about Hilda Solis runs labor and Rick Warren doesn't speak? nt
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. Agreed.
I'm much more concerned with who is getting to set policy and and write and enact laws.

Hilda is good news. :-)
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Bleacher Creature Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. But, but, but . . .. .
I agree completely.
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Jackeens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. That's one impressive record, loved this bit -
Andy Stern, president of the 1.9-million member Service Employees International Union, the 51-year-old praised Solis for her deep roots in the union movement. He recalled marching with her in Los Angeles _ well before she was elected to Congress _ to seek higher wages and benefits for janitors. "We were with her fighting for the rights of people who work from the beginning and we're so proud that she's been chosen to be the labor secretary," Stern said.
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Indiana_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
5. Sounds good to me! Let's hope for the best! K&R! eom
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Cheap_Trick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
6. Ruh roh...
Sentiments like this will not go over well with some......

I too am looking at the big picture.
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
7. agree with your post 100%
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Mojambo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
8. I'm quite happy with Solis.
One of the few cabinet appointments I've agreed with wholeheartedly.
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T Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
9. IF she actually is the nominee and gets approved, it will be the first good appointment
by Obama. But maybe liberals should not get too excited because

she will not be setting policy, but only implementing the President's wishes. Who knows what impact her personal views or history will have on the Department's actions.

We better wait until 2010 or 2011 to applaud this cabinet post.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. so you think Steven Chu sucks too. that figures.
you hate Obama. I don't use that word lightly. you've made your hate clear as can be. You claimed that you'd be the first to cheer if Obama ever did anything "good". This isn't cheering. It's a barely grudging admission.

You hate him. you should have the guts to own that.
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T Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. Don't really know a lot about Chu except that he is pro-science, which is good.
And, I do not "hate" Obama. I am just disappointed that the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to really move this country back toward the left has been wasted on a center-right milquetoast who would rather compromise with the enemy than fight for what is right. But then, I am taking civil rights as something that is "right" and not just another issue to be negotiated over.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. So when Obama appoints a moderate it means he's selling out progressives
Edited on Thu Dec-18-08 03:47 PM by Radical Activist
But when he appoints a liberal we can't get too excited because she won't really be setting policy.

Gotcha.

:hurts:
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T Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Just echoing the "shut up" message from the bigots here who have been telling those who
criticize Obama's noms with the message that the Prez's views will determine the total direction and action of each Department.

Didn't think I needed the sarcasm thingy.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. I haven't told people to shut up, but
I told people to at least stop exaggerating everything in the worst way. Like calling this the first good appointment. Total bullshit.
And now people who disagree with you are bigots too? :eyes:
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #26
69. we have been through all that
Edited on Fri Dec-19-08 02:02 AM by Two Americas
Mocking and ridiculing people and using insults and insinuations are used to encourage the audience to discount and dismiss the speaker's message - to not listen to them and to not consider their ideas. That is suppression of freedom of speech. It is the most common tactic of those trying to suppress freedom of speech.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #69
70. And I will continue to exercise my freedom to speak however I like
no matter how many times you try to shame, bully and silence me with that insulting attack.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #70
71. nicely done
How did you manage to turn that around 180 degrees? Damn, you are good at this.

Is this anything like reverse racism, or people objecting to homophobia being accused of hatred and intolerance?
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
39. Piffle.
She is an excellent choice. Of course, the "will not be setting policy but only implementing the President's wishes" also applies to the nominees you don't like...so why ARE you upset about them?
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
10. If you didn't start this OP with an ignorant bigoted rant it would be more useful.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
11. You weren't blunt, you were totally offensive & everything I read by you from now on will be colored
by this:

Who cares if a gay bashing preacher reads an invocation? Obama is the president of everyone, even gay bashers and right wing Christians. If he chooses to represent them by giving them a prayer at the inauguration, then I think he has made a good decision.
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antimatter98 Donating Member (537 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Agreed poster, this diarist is spectacularly naive and a moron. n/t
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
12. "She scored 100% from the AFL-CIO on labor issues."
Sounds good to me!
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Alter Ego Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
15. I've never heard of her, but she sounds like a hell of a find.
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
16. We are only allowed one topic/issue per day
But then again, you did tie this to Rick Warren so I guess you're excused from breaking protocol.
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
17. She is from California not Texas
but the rest of your post is spot on. Another home run by team Obama.
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foxeyes2 Donating Member (123 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
18. You don't care
Well you don't care as long as you aren't the one being bashed, if you aren't the one that is being denied equality, as long as you are not the one that is marginalized, demonized and vilified by not only the opposition but also by some in your own camp. The anti-gay bigotry that Warren and his fellow cohorts spew is part of the reason that people are gay bashed and I mean like having their heads beat in bashed. But you don't care that this purveyor of hate is given public recognition and a public platform. No I do not expect him to say anything homophobic during his so called prayer but it still gives him a wider audience but you don't care. The truth is that the nomination of Ms. Solis and the invitation of Rick Warren to give the invocation have no bearing on each other but you don't care. I voted for President Elect Obama and it is my fervent hope that he along with his cabinet, advisers and the congress can get things turned around but on this issue he is wrong, dead wrong and those of us who know that have not only the right to say so but the responsibility to do so.
So you don't care but I do and you should walk a mile in my shoes and then perhaps you would as well.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #18
33. I would care if Obama made a policy that affected gays. Warren was spin so he could slip in Solis.
The real agenda of this administration is advancing the cause of all American workers---Black, white, straight, gay, male, female, native born, immigrant, young and old. Those of you who are bickering about who gets more love, those who love your own gender or the opposite gender or both are falling prey to the oldest trick in the capitalist's bag of workers' revolution busting tricks Divide and Conquer .

When the same forces tried to offend women in the primary with their sexist Hillary bashing(I refer to GOP moles posing as Obama supporters), I was not distracted. I call upon the gay and lesbian community to not be distracted. If we can secure for the middle/working class of this country the same rights that the workers of northern and western Europe have---decent wages, work conditions, health care, personal freedoms, teenaged years in which people can express their own identity and sexuality ---everyone including gays and lesbians will live in a better country.

The workers' revolution is not about just guys in coveralls who make cars. It is about everyone who does not pull in a seven figure salary a year. There is a reason why gays are oppressed in this country. It is the same reason why immigrants are allowed over the border but then get hassled and why women make just over half of what men make and why older Americans get laid off before they reach retirement and why Blacks get sent to shitty schools---it makes the corporations more money.

When wealth disparity declines in this country, everyone will have a stronger sense of self worth. This will decrease the tendency to judge others in a shoving match to see who will be king of the shit hill on which all the have nots live.

Go ahead and complain loudly. That is the right thing to do. But know in your heart that Obama is doing the right thing for the American worker, which is the right thing for all of us. I am watching him like a hawk, and if I ever see him do the wrong thing, I will speak up about it immediately and at the top of my lungs.

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mentalslavery Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #33
92. This relates to the article you posted on the red book
I read it. It was very interesting to see Marx and Engels chastise American communist for being overly focused on ideological purity and being overly ideological. That is not something that is commonly focused on when people investigate or teach about Marx. Marx was so pragmatic and he is framed as ideological. Its too bad that people read about Marx as opposed to reading Marx.

People struggle so much with the macro level determinants of social interaction and other micro level phenomena.
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eyesroll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
19. I'm posting this on a million threads, it seems: Good choices do not cancel out bad choices, any
more than bad choices cancel out good choices. (Sometimes, I post it the other way.)

This is a good choice in its own right. Applaud it.

It doesn't cancel out or excuse the bad choice.
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. yup
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. Post recommended
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #19
30. The two choices arent on even ground though
Warren's role will be for about two minutes on Jan 20th. REp . Solis will hopefully be in charge of things for years.
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eyesroll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. Yes. Applaud Solis.
It does not excuse Warren, which is an entirely separate matter.

Nor does Warren *negate* Solis.
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
21. I both disagree and agree
Edited on Thu Dec-18-08 04:10 PM by Wetzelbill
Solis is very much part of the bigger picture, great, I love that, way to go Obama. Having her involved in policy is much more important than who says a prayer.

That being said, LGBT people are run roughshod over and treated like second-class citizens. If you or I were the ones who were getting bashed and had to see a guy like Rick Warren get that type of platform, prayer or not, that would be damn hurtful.

I'm a Blackfeet Indian and I know Hilda Solis would do a lot of good for and look out for the rights of my fellow Indigenous people, because we fit into the demographic - economic and cultural- that she has fought for her whole life, and that is important. But say that some racist preacher who bashed Indians was allowed to give a prayer at the president's inaugaration? That would still hurt me and just about everybody I know, and I wouldn't like it either. One right doesn't totally overshadow and nullify an action that hurts those who are constantly persecuted. Rick Warren's invocation might not be a "big picture" concept to most of us, but it sure the hell is to those who have been bashed by him. That matters.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #21
95. Yeah,
true.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
27. Good words, McCamy.
Recommend.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
28. Well, Solis is ONE good thing and I'm glad for it.
We got one. The DLC got the rest.

Can we at least agree that our enemies have been given enough domination over us by now?
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
29. How does one relate to the other?
How does a good choice like Solis mitigate using a gay baiting hate monger to 'invoke' God? How do you claim that one is related to the other?
Seriously. Show your work. Explain yourself. You are usually not a defender of bigots, or a rationer of justice and equity. So tell me how you see the one thing as related to the other?
Yeah, Solis is cool. She was last year, and will be next. Warren is and was nothing but a divisive bigot. Solis' excellence does not somehow transfer to or improve some dogmatic hater.
In fact, using a great person like Rep Solis to polish the knob of a twit like Warren is a cheap device.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. Warren is a media distraction. The press is all "Obama is bucking the liberals"
Edited on Thu Dec-18-08 06:29 PM by McCamy Taylor
at the moment. That means that they will not listen when the RNC tries to scream "But...but... Rep. Solis is the most liberal member of the House ".

"Nonsense!" the MSM will proclaim as one. "We just got through telling you that Obama has divorced himself from his own liberal base by inviting Rick Warren to speak. Obviously, he is a centrist, even a right leaning Democrat. Do not contradict our punditry again!"

The press can not handle two, contradictory stories at the same time. The Warren one is flashier and so they will run with that.

It was a very slick move. Maybe there is a reason to keep Axelrod on at the WH after all.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. I agree that there's a lot more to this than meets the eye. Time after
time folks here thought Obama made a wrong move and time after time he proved that he was dealing on a level way over their heads.

This woman is fantastic. She is certainly one that would have drawn LOTS of fire in the current economic and political climate, especially regarding unions. She has gravitas and a solid liberal voting record to back it up.

Thanks for your post MT.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
31. "Who cares if a gay bashing preacher reads an invocation?"
Edited on Thu Dec-18-08 06:14 PM by Deep13
Anyone who cares about civil rights or seperation of church and state. Anyone who is gay, knows people who are gay or is sympathetic to their cause. Anyone who is offended by bullying or by underhanded attempts to divert attention away from real issue by making scape-goats out of homosexuals.

You are attempting to create a false dilemma. There is no reason why we cannot have a strong Labor Dept. AND gay and reproductive rights.

Just to be clear. Warren is not just some guy who is unconvinced about gay marriage or reproductive rights. This is a guy who used the power of his pulpit to convince thousands of California voters to take away rights that gay people already had. His flock (an apt term) could ignore him, of course, but then they would risk going to hell. Of course it never occurred to them or their hate-mongering priest (that is what one calls the head of a temple) that they were free to eschew gay marriages for themselves while still permitting them for those outside of their religion. Warren is also an opponent of reproductive rights and, I have to assume, stem cell research and birth control too.

Warren isn't just a Christian priest. He is a professional con artist cut from the same cloth as Falwell and Pat Robertson. He is a real enemy to freedom and human rights int his country. And out Democratic president has embraced him and given him a national platform for his hateful and dishonest message. How would we have felt if it had been David Duke or Bull Conner? This is just as bad.
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. You are attempting to create a false dilemma
Gay and Reproductive rights can still happen. Warren isnt being appointed to any position but only to read a prayer for one day.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #32
51. Warren is being shown respect he does not deserve.
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #32
67. Actually...
Taylor sort of put up the 'False Choice' in the headline of this whole post thingee. Labor versus Gay Rights essentially.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #32
76. Obama is promoting him and giving him a platform of legitimacy.
Why would he do that?

And the suggestion of a false dilemma was in response to the OP saying we should not worry about the Warren because we are getting a new Labor secretary.
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firedupdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
36. She's a great pick! n/t
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
37. What do you call 1000 Rick Warrens chained together at the bottom of the ocean?
Edited on Thu Dec-18-08 06:57 PM by KamaAina
A good start! :P

(originally told with "lawyers" in place of "Rick Warrens", it appeared in the Tom Hanks movie "Philadelphia")

But seriously, why can't we have both? Labor Secretary Solis :thumbsup: and an inclusive minister doing the invocation? There are quite a few of them out there, you know, and they aren't all in UU or MCC.

edit: spelling
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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
38. Thanks for not taking our outrage seriously...right off the bat.
You just couldn't resist, could you?
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. When you get outraged over something that's not serious, what do you expect?
You know how many DU threads I've seen about the two brothers who got beaten up because somebody thought they were gay? Three. How many have there been about this trivial bullshit with Warren? Dozens, maybe hundreds. It's not "outrage," it's classic DU-style Poutrage (TM), the way only a place as obsessed by trivia and imaginary offenses as DU could produce.
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. Well, this outrage has been all over the media tonight
so it's beyond DU now.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #43
58. Now THIS is a post I'd rec if I could
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I hadn't even heard about the two brothers. Thanks for the heads up.
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hay rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #43
61. Poutrage (TM)? Whoa.
Good word. What are the terms of use?

For the record: I will probably leave the room and get a beer during Warren's invocation. I think his choice is a distraction and a mistake- but I don't really care all that much. I am more offended by the current emphasis on religion in political discourse. When Warren comes out we should all yawn in unison.
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EndElectoral Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
41. I voted for Obama. Bravo on Solis. As to Warren, I am ashamed of this decision.Just sickened by it!
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
42. I don't agree with you often, Ms. T, but this time I do.
Policy is what matters, not symbolic bone-throwing.

Why do you mention Texas, though? Solis is from the California 32nd.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. I meant that we do not have politicians like this in Texas. She is from east LA.
We have a few like her (from Dallas, Houston, Austin area) but they are rare.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
44. Solis - Good. Warren - Bad.
It would be nice to think that there is a clever and machiavellian ploy to somehow cause the media to feint right so we can somehow slip a clever left in.

Would be nice, but it seems a little bit like stretching to make something bad, something you can be happy with. Any way you look at it, it is not a good message to send to the gay haters.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Sometimes a little homophobia is just a little homophobia.
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
45. Damn Skippy...
I know that Warren's appearance is a huge disappointment to the GLBT community, but one minute after the invocation, Warren's "influence" on the Obama Administration becomes little to none. Solis, on the other hand, can do a lot of good for a lot of people.

My favorite cabinet pick so far!
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Politicalboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
46. Yeah who cares.
Who cares if Obama lets a closeted gay basher have his moment in the sun on OUR stage. He should have picked Rev Wright over Warren. I hope this has a bad impact on the inauguration.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
48. If Warren says a homophobic word at the ceremony, then I will protest.
But he will not. He will be good as gold. This is his big chance to go mainstream. He is going to attempt to cast off his bad boy ways.
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Undercurrent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
49. I'm thrilled with this appointment!
Over the moon!

The problem that the press has with Obama is that they, like many DUers, try to pigeon hole him. Define him in two dimensional terms. He's a "liberal", a "centrist", or an "other", etc. In truth Obama is a complex multi layered individual who defies labels. He has the kind of mind that can plan strategy, and use tactics, but keenly understands the difference between those concepts.




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happychatter Donating Member (619 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
52. I had you ignored during the primary
and now I'm in love

thanks
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happychatter Donating Member (619 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
53. Error: You've already recommended that thread. - n/t
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
54. Obama's Rainbow Cabinet of Rivals to Be 100% Gay Free
Edited on Thu Dec-18-08 09:43 PM by IanDB1
Obama's Rainbow Cabinet of Rivals to Be 100% Gay Free




UPDATE II: Unless you count incoming Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, (which we don't), there will be no gay members of the Obama cabinet. Politico reports that President-elect Obama has chosen California Rep. Hilda Solis as Labor secretary.



From yesterday's WSJ:

The post is one of the last to be filled by President-elect Barack Obama, and is proving to be particularly difficult. Early candidates, such as former Rep. David Bonior and Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm, have faded, either because they asked not to be considered or ran into other problems. Bonior has championed labor activist Mary Beth Maxwell, who would be the first openly gay cabinet member in history.

But Shaiken has emerged as a candidate with strong backing from unions and high praise from corporate officials, according to people familiar with the selection process.

Here in a nutshell is why gays and lesbians are so upset with Obama today. He's following the Clinton playbook for dealing with the gay community, a playbook that the Democratic Party has subscribed to ever since. When Barack Obama said that he only supports marriage as being defined as being between a man and a woman, the gay & lesbian community was told, "Don't worry, we've got your back" and LGBT activists let is slide, despite the fact that Obama's position was used by the Yes on 8 campaign in ads and mailers in their winning campaign. After the huge losses and nation-wide protest marches last month, we had hope Obama would speak up in defense of marriage equality, but he stayed silent. We were told, "Now is not the time." When The Victory Fund announced it was working with the Obama team to find qualified gays and lesbians for the new Cabinet, we waited. We waited while the list of open positions diminished and now it appears Mr. Hope & Inclusion's Dream Team won't have any gay members at all. The one bright spot is that Obama's Education Secretary nominee Arne Duncan is a champion of gay and lesbian youth.


Is it any wonder that gays and lesbians are upset that they're being told to welcome and include one of the loudest and most prominent supporters of Prop 8 at the inauguration? In the 80s, Ronald Reagan sat silently while gay men and then peole from every walk of life suffered horrible, painful death due to AIDS. In the 90s, Clinton "felt our pain", but only added to it by passing the Defense of Marriage Act and instituting Don't Ask-Don't Tell. George W. Bush supports a gay-baiting Constitutional Amendment banning gay marriage that only exists as a way for conservatives to flas their bona fides come election time.

Let's face it: The gay community gets dicked around by the White House regardless of which party is in office. Are LGBT rights the only issue that matters? No. It's not even the most important one and LGBT Americans, like all Americans, will support our President in a difficult and trying time in our country's history. But that doesn't mean that we will roll over when our civil rights are used as political pawns to win over conservatives or to be shelved until some time in the distant future.


More:
http://www.queerty.com/obamas-rainbow-cabinet-of-rivals-to-be-100-gay-free-20081218/
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #54
94. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #94
98. Well, if all straight people are like you, then I hope you don't manage to reproduce somehow.
Edited on Fri Dec-19-08 09:06 PM by IanDB1
Is "Heretic" a new brand of feminine hygiene product I haven't heard of?
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HarukaTheTrophyWife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #98
99. Fortunately, it's impossible to get your hand pregnant
Edited on Fri Dec-19-08 09:09 PM by haruka3_2000
Thank God.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #99
100. I don't think he's gotten laid since his cousin was old enough to run. n/t
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HarukaTheTrophyWife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #100
101. That's bad, but yet it made me laugh
Very hard.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #101
102. I specialize in those sorts of "guilty laughs." n/t
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chascarrillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
55. "Who cares if a white supremacist reads an invocation?"
Try saying that in the mirror and please report back how stupid you looked while saying that. Thanks.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Who cares if a white supremacist woman hater pedophile reads an invocation?
Edited on Thu Dec-18-08 10:39 PM by McCamy Taylor
The Catholic Church has this principle. No matter how many sins the priest has committed, the word of God is still holy and the priest can still deliver the sacrament and all that other stuff.

Now, I know that Warren probably hates Catholics, too. But we do not have to be like Warren and hate him back. We can follow the Golden Rule of Buddhists, Christians, atheists and say that the man himself and his personal burden of fear and hatred and suffering is his burden, not ours and his karmic burden means absolutely nothing to us (except that we pity him for being so full of fear).

As far as we are concerned, only the words that will be spoken in January have any meaning.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
59. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #59
63. If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
60. two objections
McCamy...

Why the gratuitous swipe at the people objecting to Warren being picked for the inauguration?

This really sad, because I think Solis may be the best cabinet selection yet, and tacking this news onto the Warren issue does everyone a disservice.

Also, you have done a poor job of explaining Solis to people, and the significance of her being named, which makes me wonder of you didn't use the Solis selection as an excuse to take a swipe at the people objecting to Warren.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #60
64. The OP does not comment on the people who hate Warren and Obama for selecting him.
However, whenever people allow themselves to become consumed by hate, they fall victim to Mara. I am not a Buddhist scholar, so I can not give an precise translation of Mara, except to say that it is like a temptation or a desire that kills the soul. Examples would be the intense desire for revenge that causes a person to forget about his family and pursue a reckless course of violence that leads to self destruction. Or drug addiction would be another form of Mara. Any attachment to anything that so blinds a person to the complexity of life and the world that he is unable to see the broad picture and the interconnections of things and especially, any attachment that makes him unable to act in appropriate ways because his is absolutely consumed with emotion about the one thing on which he is fixed---that is a result of Mara.

The saying "hate the action, not the person" comes to mind here. I keep reading people decrying Warren the person. And now Obama the person and anyone who does not denounce Obama. The ultimate evil action is to label another person evil. This is why gay bashing is an evil act. That evil act is not neutralized by labeling the gay bashers "evil". It is compounded. The gay bashers should be treated with compassion. The reason that they fear people who are different---gays, liberated women, Buddhists, atheists etc.---is because they too are consumed by desire or fear or anxiety or Mara. They are suffering. Their suffering cuts them off from the empathy which is the natural human response to other human beings. They can not feel the brotherly love which contented people feel for one another, because they do not love themselves . Their religion does not provide them hope and comfort. It only adds to their fear and misery. They are in need of compassion.

When I see a member of a right wing religious community, I see someone in need of salvation. Warren needs salvation. Maybe Obama can save him.



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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #64
66. What????
This really sounds more like a right wing caricature of what they think an Obama supporter believes. Are you listening to the way you are writing? To how it sounds? I mean honestly, Salvation?

It seems to prop Obama up like he’s a bloody saint or something. It sounds crazy, goofy, or just damned weird.

We are supposed to be democrats, save all that saving for church.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #66
80. Read Lucky 13's post. She says is better than I can.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. Lucky 13?
There is no member named "Lucky 13" on this thread.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #82
85. Here is Lucky 13's beautiful post.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #64
68. say what?
I am not looking for any politician to be anyone's salvation. Is Obama supposed to be saving people? I missed that memo.

People resisting oppression are not necessarily consumed by hatred, and telling oppressed people to chill out and seek inner peace is highly reactionary. Politically speaking. Religion, well that is a different story. Is that what this is about?
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #68
78. Short Translation:
You kill so many more flies with honey ...
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #68
84. Inner peace is reactionary? Tell that to Ghandi, MLK Jr. Clear sight comes from inner peace.
No one can run a successful revolution unless they have achieved inner peace. You have to be free from desire and fear and you have to be filled with love for all humanity even those against whom you struggle in order to see the effects of your actions. Then you can be trusted to make the right decisions and react in the correct way.

Inner peace does not equal passive behavior. Inner peace means acting out of love, not hatred. You should read the writing of William Blake. "Opposition is true friendship." The American Revolution was an act of love. Protest can be an act of love. All the voices which are raised in anger at Obama's choice of Warren are an act of love. Obama's choice of Solis is an act of love. Obama's choice of Warren may well be an act of love, too.

"The proof of the sun is the sun itself, If you want proof of love don't turn your face away" Rumi
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #84
88. yes
This idea that people with one opinion must be "livid" and otherwise bad and wrong in some vague spiritual sense, while those with a different opinion are seeking "inner peace," is a clever way, a passive aggressive way, for one group to diminish people in another.

Yes, the New Agey "you create your own reality" idea is politically reactionary, because it denies the reality of power and economics and anything that does that supports those who already have access to power and resources.

Politics is about changing conditions in objective reality so that people are better supported in whatever they wish to do - seek inner peace or whatever. Religion is about changing internal reality so as to better cope with existing conditions. I favor a separation of church - in whatever guise - and state, and leaving to religion that which belongs in religion.

This is double talk:

"You have to be free from desire and fear and you have to be filled with love for all humanity even those against whom you struggle in order to see the effects of your actions."

That may or may not be true. So what if it is?

"Then you can be trusted to make the right decisions and react in the correct way."

Trusted by whom? The right decisions and the right reactions according to whom?

It is a beautiful religious sentiment you are expressing, but I think it is very dangerous injecting it, or any other religion, into politics, especially in a less than straightforward way. I am experiencing much inner peace as I write this, am filled with love for all of humanity, and am not livid. Nevertheless, I still hold the same opinion on this issue.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #88
104. Then express your opinion as I expressed mine. I value action and results.
My concern is with children who go to bed hungry, workers who have no jobs, the Americans (too many of whom are children of single mothers) who live in poverty due to the Divide and Conquer tactics of the corporate classes.

I see Divide and Conquer going on right now at DU over a matter of style not substance and I have seen these same battles destroy the workers' rights movement time and again in the US---even though the workers' right movement would have brought with it equality for every group that was shouting "We are not being represented" from white collar workers to women to gays to minorities to immigrants---and I am tired of the way that we the people allow ourselves to be manipulated by the elite.

Engels was right when he wrote that Americans need to stop thinking exclusively with their emotions and from personal experience and start using reason and strategy and considering the big picture when it comes to their ongoing struggle with those who oppress them.

Why are there laws making gays second class citizens? Because the corporations use this issue to divide and conquer the working class so that some more conservative religious workers will vote against their own economic self interest to vote for so called values issues. If Obama can get those voters to stop voting against unions and for big oil because they think those two issues are somehow more "holy" because the GOP tells them they are, then he will achieve liberation for all workers. Liberated workers will no longer have to look around for ways in which they are better than other workers on the shit heap.

This is basic revolutionary theory, but too many Americans do not bother to think this far. They look at their one personal issue and say "I'm gonna stake out my own issue and to hell with anyone else." Forgetting that solidarity is the key to any struggle for liberation.

Read Angela Davis's "Women, Race and Class." The elite goes after the inclusive groups like the Wobllies first, because they know that these are the most dangerous. They killed MLK Jr when he was starting to change his civil rights movement into a economic justice movement.

Voters who have given up their vote for the one issue of "no gays" are dupes. If Obama can convince them to start voting for environmental justice and economic justice which are much more satisfying Christian issues, the right wing will have suffered a tremendous blow.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #104
105. ok....
I have to say I can't figure out where you are coming from at all.

I agree with everything you say here. I can't see any connection to your last post, and I can't see any connection between either of them and your OP.
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mentalslavery Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #84
91. McCamy Talyor
I like the way you think. I have been wondering if this was a trick. He might be wheeling and dealing with the right to move on to some other issue, might be offering them support if the "conveniently" drop this issue. I have watched obama since the beginning in Illinois. He is slick. Not going to mention any cases because of trolls but he has pulled some shit before.

Then again, he might be a sell out. Time will tell
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billyoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
62. I couldn't be happier, Hilda Solis is AWESOME!!
:woohoo:
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 01:43 AM
Response to Original message
65. What the hell are you playing at???
This is an absurdly divisive post. Do you work for the RNC? Or the DLC?

Is it your job and intention to set up Organized Labor versus Gay Rights?

This has got to be the most short sighted idiotic thing I have ever seen put up. It doesnt draw the sting out of Rick Warren being allowed to speak and it sure as hell doesnt trump up Hilda Solis in an effective way.

We are honestly going to have a hard enough time with keeping a progressive coalition together without this kind of absurd headline.
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 02:34 AM
Response to Original message
72. I'm a bit confused by your statement >
I am absolutely overwhelmed. Except in places like Houston and Austin, you do not see this kind of progressive record in a member of Congress from Texas. Her commitment to workers' right and to environmental justice is amazing!

First - Isn't Solis from California (instead of Texas)?
Second - Houston.......PROGRESSIVE?????????

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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #72
86. I already posted that I know she is from East LA. I meant that Texas is less progressive.
However, Sheila Jackson Lee is from Houston. And Austin has Lloyd Doggett.
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #86
87. I wish Obama would hire Doggett. Talk about resemblences to Lincoln...n/t
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 02:35 AM
Response to Original message
73. Apparently "progressives" only care about social issues here.
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Spryboy Donating Member (77 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 02:54 AM
Response to Original message
74. Do you have any idea how offensive your post is?
Seriously, DO you, McCamy Taylor?

Can 1000 Grand Dragons of the KKK and Aryan Nation leaders speak at the Innauguration if MY favorite person gets a cabinet post?

(rolling eyes)

Who ARE you people?
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #74
96. Can they? Absolutely.
Edited on Fri Dec-19-08 08:23 PM by Political Heretic
You want to know why?

Because it doesn't fucking matter Spryboy. It's a fucking prayer.

I really don't give two fucks if Obama asks an evangelical pastor who happens to have ass-ignorant opinions about sexuality to say a prayer at his innaguration.

If he was appointing him to a cabinet position - I would be livid and utterly irate. That's the fucking difference
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soleiri Donating Member (913 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
79. I’m Latina, and I grew up in the San Gabriel Valley.
I went to East La College.
I’ve been a supporter of Hilda Solis since she was in the California State Assembly.
This is no doubt the best cabinet pick so far.
I am extremely proud and I have to admit some of that pride exists because we share a common heritage.

But lets get this straight, in no way does this excuse the horrible decision to give Rick Warren the honor of giving the invocation at the Inauguration.
One has nothing to do with the other and I stand by the GLBT community.

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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #79
97. right on
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quiller4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
81. Thank you for your post
Substance of symbol
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
83. Oh no, this is not important
what is important is Rick Warren is giving a 2min anecdote on Obamas inauguration
and... and.. he hates Gay people, he eats their babies for diner.

WTF!!! People WAKE THE FUCK UP!!!

An excellent pick by way.

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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
103. She is a FANTASTIC pick!
She is the best of working class L.A. She comes from the same kind of union family background and L.A. rough-and-tumble neighborhood as my wife and her family, so I feel like a sister-in-law or a cousin is in the cabinet. :D

Her fight to raise CA's minimum wage as a state legislator cemented her rep as a fighter for US. She's always been in the arena for working and middle class familes.
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