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If we want to be really honest, Obama showed us that he was against gay equal rights from the start.

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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 09:16 PM
Original message
If we want to be really honest, Obama showed us that he was against gay equal rights from the start.
Edited on Sat Dec-20-08 09:40 PM by debbierlus
And, he has always favored courting evangelical support over gay supporters. However, I never thought would throw his supporters under the bus to send a political message.

Obama is smart. He made a deliberate political calculation. He ran one of the most brilliant political campaigns in history. He knows the fury over Prop 8 which has inflamed the nation since the election. He choose to offer a controversial choice to show evangelicals he would be their leader as well, and he is backing it up by showing he will not cave to pressure from his supporters.

I see the logic. I see the strategy. He knows he holds little political risk because political cycles run by the minute, I bet he thinks he has plenty of time to placate the gay community, but only now to get enough support from the far right to get his legislation pushed through...He is making a bold stance to demonstrate his 'reach across the aisle' pledge in action.

And, I think it is lousy. I see the base practicality merit in his pick, however he should never have done it. BECAUSE:

1. It is unethical, unprincipled, and unkind.

2. It is also completely UNNECESSARY. Obama has a zillion and one positive ways to reach across the aisle to evangelicals
without giving a national 'spiritual' platform to a hate mongerer.

This move is politics at its most cynical.


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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. I know. We were told we were just hysterical and once he won we'd see. NT
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yes, be patient, he has to run from the center to get elected, he doesn't mean it...
...yes, he did.
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crim son Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. I would agree with you, except I would deny that we are seeing
politics as usual, and not at its most cynical. We hoped for something different but Obama gave every indication during his campaign that he was a practical man with practical goals, and while certainly "a change" from the shrub, he isn't necessarily going to represent a major shift from the Same Old Shit, politically speaking. I think I'm one of the lucky ones - he has done little that surprises me, so far. So far.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Practical I could take. I'm practical person. But Warren wasn't practical - he's
controversial, and unnecessary.
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crim son Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Well, I disagree.
But fair enough.
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. If this is politics as usual, then it is ALL at its most cynical
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crim son Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. That's my perspective.
Alas.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
4. ? "...over the bus..." Who are you? Do you need to update your translation software?
Edited on Sat Dec-20-08 09:27 PM by patrice
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
5. *over* the bus?
Uhm, what does that euphemism mean, as compared to "under the bus"?
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. It means that I am a little out of it & I MEANT under the bus

That is actually very funny :)
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. dupe
Edited on Sat Dec-20-08 09:29 PM by boppers
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. True, it was a cynical move - and I will forgive him as soon as he fixes it.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
9. FYI: At this point, this is about Us, not Obama. nt
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kiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
10. Yes, it was unnecessary and that really bothers me.
As you say, there were so many other ways he could have reached out to evangelicals, but he chose a way that hurt many of his supporters and marginalized those who contributed and worked for his election. I didn't expect as much of Obama as many did but this decision disappointed me, and obviously crushed many who had more faith in his ideas of change.
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Best not to make deals with the devil at all, especially unnecessary ones

Change 101

Stop making deals with the devil
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kiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. Yep, he tends to be pretty demanding.
The people who assume that this is brilliant strategy on Obama's part don't seem to realize that getting the fundies onboard will take more than this--and just how much is Obama willing to give?
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
14. I tend to agree.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
17. Meet the new politics, same as the old politics
Obama railed against cynicism in politics, then pulls the most cynical move in political history.

The man is the most hypocritical Democratic politician ever.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
19. It's not Obama's fault that courting the Religious Right pays better dividends.
Until the rest of America stops being cowed by their Bible-wielding enemies, pandering politicians are not going to side with us.
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Shiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
20. I apologize, but I don't see it that way.
At least, not the 'Obama is against gay rights part'; the rest of your post I agree with.

Based on his record, he's very pro-gay rights. The one issue I can find to fault him on is marriage, and from what I've seen, it looks more like a personal thing than a political thing.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Civil_Rights.htm#Gay_Rights (Includes his voting record from both the Illinois and US Senate and his statements on equal rights issues, as well as his 89% rating from the HRC.)

The move is a bad one, and politics at it's most cynical (which is a great way of putting it), but I don't think it's an indication of his views on equal rights. The logic is there, as you said, but it was still a poorly calculated move that has obviously and rightly blown up in his face.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
21. 13th recommend
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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
22. this is probably the EASIEST way to reach across
it involves NO policy
it involves NO compromise
it involves a 2 MINUTE prayer

:eyes:
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alwysdrunk Donating Member (908 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
23. Prop 8 is the thing really screwing Obama on this
Of course not as bad as it is screwing Californians, but still.

He probably decided on this before the election or very soon after, maybe even agreed it with Warren beforehand. Who knew those marriage amendments would pass? Especially in California! I've come to realize that it's really Prop 8 on top of Warren, not just Warren himself that is fueling the outrage.

Obama kept to his decision even after the result and he's paying the price for it now. Still, I think it will be a net win for him politically.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
24. He certainly did, and I pointed it out at the time.
That's just one of the reasons, all of them issues based, he never earned my support.

While the party was holding hands, singing "Kumbaya," and riding euphoric, if insubstantial, waves of "hope," I was looking at policies, positions, and issues, and I never liked what I saw.

He is a center-right politician with many unacceptable positions on issues. Few Democrats wanted to open their eyes long enough to notice that until after the election.

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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
25. I really hope that, after reading the comments of many Americans about this,...
...Obama will rethink his own position about gay marriage.

But I don't think it's really about religion for him, as much as politics.
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
26. Luckily, Obama won't be like Bush
When blacks expressed disapproval towards Bush's actions (when he was actually in office), Bush basically said "f*ck you" and never looked back.

Thank goodness Obama will still fight for the LGBT community despite all the criticisms.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
27. ...which is why I voted for Kucinich.
"Our brothers and sisters who happen to be gay, lesbian or bisexual or transgendered should have the same rights accorded to them and that includes the ability to have a civil marriage ceremony"
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