Pain in the ass Anglicans to become Catholics

[charlie]

Those breakaway gay-and-women-fearing conservatives have a new home, if they want it. The Vatican has greenlighted their conversion, while allowing them to retain Anglican practices. Meanwhile, Rowan Williams continues to look more hapless and ineffectual than ever.

The Vatican said Tuesday it has worked out a way for groups of Anglicans who are dissatisfied with their faith to join the Catholic Church.

The process will allow groups of Anglicans, including bishops and married priests, to join the Catholic Church some 450 years after King Henry VIII broke from Rome and created the Church of England, forerunner of the Anglican Communion.

The number of Anglicans wishing to join the Catholic Church has increased in recent years as the Anglican church has welcomed the ordination of women and openly gay clergy and blessed homosexual partnerships, said Cardinal William Joseph Levada, the head of the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

Their talks with the Vatican recently began speeding up, Vatican officials said, leading to Tuesday's announcement.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/10/20/vatican.anglican.church/index.html

There was bewilderment yesterday among Anglicans as they struggled to make sense of Rome’s initiative.

It was left to the National Secular Society to say publicly what many Anglicans would only admit privately. “This is a mortal blow to Anglicanism which will inevitably lead to disestablishment as the Church shrinks yet further and become increasingly irrelevant,” it said. “Rowan Williams has failed dismally in his ambitions to avoid schism. His refusal to take a principled moral stand against bigotry has left his Church in tatters.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6883094.ece

[Mimosa]

1. And how does this effect American politics?

Freedom of religion and all. I respect everybody's freedom of religion so I don't think DU is the place to criticise Catholics, Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Evangelicals. Freedom of beliefs is fine with me.

[charlie]

5. I have no idea what you're on about

And how does this effect American politics?

Never heard that rule. Something you made up? The offer is to Episcopalians too, so there is an American component, if that's necessary.

I didn't criticize "Catholics, Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Evangelicals". I expressed my low regard for a faction of bigotted malcontents that includes an archbishop who wants homosexuals imprisoned in a country where they're already routinely killed. If that upsets your sense of ecumenical comity, then sorry, it can't be helped.

[Raejeanowl]

11. Looks Like DU Disagrees With You

Since Religion/Theology is a forum topic, and you happen to be posting in it.

[Gman]

2. Might as well. Henry VIII got his own divorce

[virgogal]

3. So they can join the Kennedys' church----does that still make them pains in

the asses?

They believe what they believe.

[charlie]

6. They'll probably be pains in the asses wherever they go n/t

[pnwmom]

8. There's a big difference. Kennedy didn't choose to become a Catholic BECAUSE

he's against women priests or against gay people. He remained a Catholic DESPITE disagreeing with some of its theology.

These people would be choosing the Church for reasons that make other Catholics sick.

[JerseygirlCT]

20. Those that might be making the move

won't be in much agreement with what Ted Kennedy stood for.

This is an offer to the most entrenched of anti-women, anti-gay bigots in the Anglican Communion. In essence: c'mon over here, guys. You can bend a knee to Ratzi, and in return we promise no girl or gay cooties. (We'll just ignore those gay priests, right?)

[JerseygirlCT]

4. I guess it starts to even things out for them...

look down any given pew in my church and you'll find at least one former R. Catholic.

Tiber's getting more traffic, I suppose. And I suppose it wouldn't be very nice of me to say "good riddance", would it?

[imdjh]

7. There is a huge problem with this. The Anglican accuses ROME of heresy and worse....

Rome is indicted by the Anglican communion for concocting the Assumption and Marionism in general.

[Raejeanowl]

12. No Problemo

Just kidding.

You've got to know that this policy decision of rank opportunism will necessitate all sorts of crazy rationalizations, and increase internal pressures in a manner that will ultimately lead to Catholicism's own next long-overdue major schism.

[waiting for hope]

9. The Catholic Church has been losing members

for years - this is PR stunt to gain new membership (aka "money") for the church. Of course they would appeal to some of the hard core Evangelicals, their beliefs are similar along the lines of abortion, sexual orientation and damnation to all those that do not subscribe to their cannon. I can see how it would be attrative to some, instead of having your belief circle only encompass your church's reach, you could have a global presence to push the bigotry.

[imdjh]

13. I was born and raised Episcopalian, and have no idea who these people are.

I always thought we were a rather flexible bunch, perhaps even ambiguous. There was always something of a wink at the end of a sentence. We would speak of Adam and Eve, and Noah and friends, the Exodus and the various other goings on as if there might be some tiny bit of truth to it, some moral analogy being stressed, but that all in all the Bible was to be taken as representative, as was the church itself. You weren't so much an Episcopalian because you shared the beliefs of your ancestors in the church, you were an Episcopalian because you shared the contempt your ancestors held for more religious people, like Baptists and Catholics.

[waiting for hope]

14. I was raised Episcopalian too - and indoctrinated

into the Catholic Church when I married my husband ... let's just say that both of us now somewhat enjoy a guilt free existence by not subscribing to either. I've been studying non-duality lately and some of the eastern philosophies and just have to say I don't think that any higher power would approve of man's treatment of religion.

[JerseygirlCT]

21. Interesting

I don't see any of that. I am, however a recruit from the RCC, not a cradle Episcopalian.

Lots of room for diverse beliefs, yes. Accent on intellectualism at times. But disdain for religion? No.

[CatholicEdHead]

19. The recent talk has been to a "smaller, more faithful church"

According to Josef Cardinal Ratingzer before he became Pope. The American Catholic Right has been reaching out to Protestant Evangicals for a couple decades now (see Catholic Answers, (ir)Relevant Radio, Ave Maria Radio, ETWN, etc...). What they put out is a fundie Protestant approach with a slight Catholic twist.

These are the Anglicans that this new policy seeks to bring in, so what you have then is a smaller church made up of fundie Protestants who cannot schism more conservative anymore along with conservative Anglicans. The common thread in all this is a hard core anti-abortion and anti gay marriage stances. This leads to a dearth of spirituality at the core as any new ideas much less debate for the future is rejected.

Eventually these generations will pass on and the more recent ones have a moderate abortion stance and could care less about gay marriage. This means another major shift coming 2020-2030 to shake things up again, and maybe swing back to another progressive push which probably would move the Catholic Church towards what the Anglican Church is today.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

22. Yes, you could see the evolution in the Episcopal Church

A few years ago, a friend of mine went to General Convention and noted that the majority of the people who were against women priests or gay clergy were older. Of the bishops, it was mostly the retired bishops who held conservative views.

[dflprincess]

23. I was thinking that if the Catholic Church is recruiting unhappy Anglicans

it's time for the Anglicans to recruit unhappy Catholics. After all, when lapsed Catholics decide to try a new church where's the first place most of us go? Right to the Episcopalians! As the saying goes "all the pomp and none of the guilt"! Ads could be run using that slogan along with mention of their more enlightened (and Christian) attitudes toward Gays and women.

Or the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Pope could arrange some kind of parishoner exchange.

[Canuckistanian]

10. Henry VIII would have a few words to say on this subject

I'm almost sure of it.

[SidneyCarton]

15. The Archbishop of Canterbury would already be in the Tower for his ineffectual leadership.

And anyone who took advantage of this would be roasting on a stake within a matter of days.

[SidneyCarton]

16. In some ways it's amazing the Anglicans have lasted as long as they have.

Trying to forge a middle way between extreme Protestantism and Catholicism was probably always a doomed process, sooner or later the stronger forces from without and dissention from within were probably destined to rip them apart.

[struggle4progress]

17. Anglicans ponder Rome invitation

By Robert Pigott
BBC religious affairs correspondent

About 600 Church of England priests are meeting later to discuss the Pope's offer for them to join their own section of the Roman Catholic Church.

The priests, from Catholic-minded Anglican group Forward in Faith, are unhappy about the way women bishops are being introduced into the CoE ...

Father Geoffrey Kirk, one of the leaders of Forward in Faith, said: "... I may well choose to defer my retirement in order to see that my parish transfers itself to the Roman jurisdiction, as well as myself" ...

As the dispute in the CoE about women bishops has intensified, many "Anglo-Catholics" have warned they will transfer to the Roman Catholic Church unless they are given guaranteed access to male alternatives ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8323607.stm

[struggle4progress]

18. Anglicans told to gather up wares on road to Rome

Defectors on collision course over property
Formidable obstacles to appropriating churches
Riazat Butt, religious affairs correspondent
guardian.co.uk, Friday 23 October 2009 21.57 BST

The Church of England is on a collision course with clergy who want to take property with them when they defect to Rome following a papal decision to help them convert en masse.

In Westminster today, hundreds of Anglo-Catholics were mulling over the impact of the apostolic constitution, which will create a section in the Roman Catholic church for ex-Anglicans who wish to retain parts of their spiritual heritage.

Delegates to the national assembly of the traditionalist group Forward in Faith, including dozens of clergy, heard they needed to address a key aspect of an "exodus" brought on by the ordination of women bishops. The Rev Geoffrey Kirk told the audience: "The Hebrews did not leave Egypt empty-handed. We must now apply ourselves to the task of securing our buildings and assets. We must ensure – for its own good and self-respect – that the Church of England is as generous in its dealings with us."

When the initiative was announced, the Catholic archbishop of Westminster, Cardinal Vincent Nichols, said people would face "formidable legal obstacles" if they wished to appropriate churches for their converted congregations. The Anglican bishop of Southwark, the Right Rev Tom Butler, has already written to his clergy warning against property seizure ...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/23/apostolic-consitution-anglican-clergy-conversion-catholicism