I went to a Unitarian Church (I'm Catholic) yesterday with a neighbor

[monmouth]

as she wanted the company and it's right down the street. She knows I'm so ticked about so many things in the Catholic Church. Anyway, lovely Good Friday service but the shocker???? We waited at the end of the service in our pews while the front was walking out and I swear, 15-20 faces I recognized from my parish...LOL. Do ya think the Church is going to have some problems???? I smiled at them and they waved and smiled back. One of the gals leaned over into our pew and said to me..."Wasn't that service lovely and refreshing?" I said I thought so also and of course my friend was beaming with pride. Oh boy....

[msongs]

1. as a UU person I welcome u. no dogma no creed no hell unless u want one lol nt

[monmouth]

6. I noticed the fires of hell for eternity weren't mentioned once. Lovely..n/t

[CTyankee]

2. How interesting! I think the UU church is picking up members by having Good Friday services.

Very smart of them to pick up members this way. They probably had the humanist read on Good Friday that appeals to many, many people. Good for them!

The humanist philosphy is a good one. If I went to church at all, I would go to the UU church (or meeting house as it is now called here in Connecticut). There is fellowship and a meeting of minds, I feel. I like the Unitarians, always have...

[HereSince1628]

3. UU's are great but

they feed on spirituality they didn't develop like kid's eat chocolate cookies.

Very consumer oriented stuff, the "fun" of all known religions, from beating drums to new age, but of course that's just my opinion.

While they suck up things like "the blessing of the pets" I doubt if they understand at all why sometimes of the year a christian alter bears candles that are black and at other times why candles that are braided.

[baldguy]

5. God doesn't give a damn about candles.

What matters is how we treat each other.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TlalocW]

15. You just insulted my religion

I worship the god of candles... uh, Waxy... Yeah. Waxy.

TlalocW

[K8-EEE]

33. are you a wick-an? n/t

[darkstar3]

35. That was bad,

and you should be ashamed of yourself...and I should be ashamed for cackling...:spank:

[K8-EEE]

37. You must be VERY bad, but I tell you what...

I'll light a candle for you! ;)

[darkstar3]

38. Kinky!

Oh no, sex thread!!!

[K8-EEE]

39. Ha! No, that's what Catholics do

They light candles to ask for stuff from the big guy. Like if somebody is sick or something you say, "I'll light a candle for you at mass." The worst thing is now that have these fake-o push button candles! So lame!

[eridani]

44. DUzy!! n/t

[K8-EEE]

+ a million n/t

[K8-EEE]

32. + a million n/t

[eShirl]

9. Which Christian altars are those?

Because it's definitely *not* all Christian altars.

[baldguy]

12. Catholic

Where the stage set & the actors on it are more important than the people in the pews.

[JerseygirlCT]

25. In defense of theatrics

Seriously... yes, many liturgical churches do a have a long and very detailed tradition that incorporates all the senses - color, and sound, and smells, light and dark... For those of us who embrace these traditions, they make worship a much richer experience. To me, while the Congregationalist (UCC in many places) churches in town are full of lovely people, people I most likely agree with on a great deal, their service seems a bit too plain for me. It feels like it's missing something.

So, while I understand your viewpoint, there is more to it than a stage.

[baldguy]

26. But theatrics should be used to enhance the meaning of the message, not as a substitute for it.

[JerseygirlCT]

49. Oh, absolultely!

But to some extent, meaning is in the mind of the beholder. What is full of meaning for me may be empty ritual and theatrics to you - or vice versa. To some extent, it's what we bring to it that informs it.

I'd say that the longevity of many of these traditions indicates that they continue to be meaningful to a fair number of people.

[msongs]

14. ignorance is bliss eh? nt

[jody]

21. "Ignorance is a curable disease but stupidity is a terminal illness." n/t

[aquart]

16. Black candles? Braided candles?

What could be more important?

[dalaigh lllama]

22. It's more an attitude of "all religions have some good points"

as opposed to "my religion is right and all who don't belong to it are going to hell"

[K8-EEE]

34. but...but...but.. the important thing is the shape and color of candles used

Doesn't that just put it all in perspective, how far these religions veer off course :(

[Toasterlad]

23. Every Religion For Thousands Of Years Has Stolen From Every Previous Religion

If you want an original religion, try scientology. That's much more original than christianity or islam or judaism.

[piratefish08]

47. Yes exactly. Your omnipotent, omniscient, loving creator gives a shit about whether

the correct braided candle is lit.

I guess you nailed it.

[saltpoint]

48. I'm not seeing how candles are such a big deal, especially. Some cultures

have lots of candles. Some don't. Some people eat Pop Tarts. Some don't. Our local Target store sells some nice candles. People can buy one, or not, as they choose.

I know any number of adults who enjoy chocolate chip cookies. Myself included.

Many churches / denominations / traditions / etc. offer a kind of smorgasboard, "consumer-drivern" spiritual menu. In and of itself this doesn't seem that bad to me. Any church or temple or synagogue or meadow glen etc. is more or less open to just about anybody. You and I can walk into a Methodist church or a Catholic church or a pagan glen or a UU fellowship hall or we can stay home and watch Karen Black and Jack Nicholson in FIVE EASY PIECES.

Several pagan traditions like ceremonies in which pets are acknowledged and honored. Absent participation in such a ceremony, I don't see what harm can come from holding one. I happen to like pets generally and dogs especially. Whatever blessings the gods and goddesses can bestow on a dog, I say bring it on.

[LiberalLoner]

4. Cool! If you want the same type of services but more liberalism, ELCA is another option. n/t

[MadMaddie]

8. Fantastic!

[propaper]

10. It has always been tough to be a liberal and be a catholic. The unitarian "church" is a good fit.

The Catholic Church is a Conservative Church. The Unitarian Church by definition is a liberal church.

[monmouth]

13. You make an excellent point. So many times I sat in the pew and literally

bit my tongue for fear of shouting back to the priest. The hypocrisy was unbelievable. I have upped and walked out other times, fortunately learned to sit either in the middle or towards the back so it wasn't such a long walk out. I guess it's not a good fit for me....

[ZombieHorde]

11. The Unitarian Churches sound better than the Catholic Churches.

Good for you for exploring other options.

[deutsey]

17. UU here...welcome.

:hi:

[Critters2]

18. I've never heard of a UU church doing a Good Friday service.

Interesting.

[blue sky at night]

19. stop by at one of your local UCC Churches.....

we have many folks who attend regularly at our church who remain catholic but do not practice....all are welcome, and we have coffee too! Thanks for the post...you made my day.

[Bitwit1234]

20. I think the Catholic Church is like republicans they are too controlling

they want to tell you what, where, when, how, why and who. Did I leave anything out. Took me years but I too don't go any more.

I think the Sisters believe in what they are doing and try faithfully to help people. The priests seem only to be the ones who want to tell everyone what to do.

[jody]

24. Interesting perspective but in the debate leading up to the final HCR bill many DUers were attacking

the Democratic Party because some senators and congresspersons were not voting the party line, i.e. allowing themselves to be told "what, where, when, how, why and who".

We Dems can't have it both ways, can we?

[Maat]

27. UU here!

I'm glad you enjoyed the service! May you enjoy many more!

:hi:

[safeinOhio]

28. Principles of UU

There are seven principles which Unitarian Universalist congregations affirm and promote:

The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.
Unitarian Universalism (UU) draws from many sources:

Direct experience of that transcending mystery and wonder, affirmed in all cultures, which moves us to a renewal of the spirit and an openness to the forces which create and uphold life;
Words and deeds of prophetic women and men which challenge us to confront powers and structures of evil with justice, compassion, and the transforming power of love;
Wisdom from the world's religions which inspires us in our ethical and spiritual life;
Jewish and Christian teachings which call us to respond to God's love by loving our neighbors as ourselves;
Humanist teachings which counsel us to heed the guidance of reason and the results of science, and warn us against idolatries of the mind and spirit.
Spiritual teachings of earth-centered traditions which celebrate the sacred circle of life and instruct us to live in harmony with the rhythms of nature.
These principles and sources of faith are the backbone of our religious community.

[Bluenorthwest]

29. Unitarian Churches are cool

While as some have noted they are free of the 'smells and bells' aspect of high drama masses, they are also fairly scandal free, and do not pick fights with their neighbors to distract from the cleric's crimes. Good people as opposed to a big, giant, looming political organization with vestments and agendas.

[janet118]

30. Another lapsed Catholic UU . . .

There are a lot of us around. I call my local UU church Our Lady of Good Taste . . .

[kwassa]

31. I grew up in the Unitarian Church, and the problems I encountered were ...

there was no discussion of God ever, and no discussion of Christianity. Funny thing for a Protestant church.

I was in my 20s before I found out that Easter was about Christ's rising from the dead, and that Good Friday was about his crucifixion
All those years I spent in Sunday school, too.

[K8-EEE]

36. That sounds good to me...

after 12 years of Catholic school where I heard of nothing but "JESUS DIED FOR YOUR SINS!!!" I was always like....he DIED for my sins waaaaay before I ever had the chance to commit any?? YES! CUZ EVERYBODY'S A SINNER SO HE KNEW YOU WOULD.....it's like, you're bad, you're doomed, you're saved, oh wait you're blowing it....

Such a mindfuck to lay on a little kid when I look back on it.

When it comes right down to it I don't believe anybody needs to be tortured and nobody should be murdered for any reason at all....certainly an unjust death does not "redeem" or "solve" anything.

[JDPriestly]

43. Depends on the congregation.

I taught Sunday School in my Unitarian Church. At a teachers' meeting, the assistant pastor asked how many of us believed in life after death in some form. About half of us did. Some congregations are vaguer about their beliefs than others. Some are very committed to social activism -- feeding the hungry, supporting gay marriage, helping the outcasts of our society. Others are not.

I was attracted to the UUs initially because my own church had a new pastor who preached fire and brimstone, Hell and eternal damnation. I was 17 and just didn't feel that was relevant to my life. The UUs didn't have a pastor so they just sang Bach chorales for their Sunday service. Singing Bach chorales was spiritually far more valuable to me (I was a music student) than hearing sermons that were so dark and ugly. So I switched.

We raised our children in the Unitarian religion, and I am really, really pleased with the result. We had far fewer problems with our children than many of our non-Unitarian friends had. The sex education at the church was far more explicit than I would ever have wanted -- but it was really right. My children were prepared to make adult decisions at the right time. Their curiosity was satisfied by information rather than experience. I did not know what they were being told and probably would not have signed a release had I known. I'm just so glad I did.

Also, my children learned how to trust others, how to communicate well and how to be part of a group and govern themselves. I am so pleased with the religious education in my children's UU Church. They really learned to respect people of all religions. It was great.

[safeinOhio]

45. The last time Jesus was mentioned

in my Church was when the janitor bumped his head going down the basement steps.

[deutsey]

56. LOL

:thumbsup:

[deutsey]

46. Unitarianism and Universalism began as separate liberal Christian movements

in the 19th century. As their names imply, "Unitarians" rejected the notion of the Trinity and "Universalists" believed God's salvation is available to everyone and that there is no hell. However, there was a strong "free religion" faction among the Unitarians that eventually came to define that movement.

Humanism dominated the Unitarian denomination for a large part of the 20th century. Universalism, which merged with Unitarianism in the '60s, has apparently retained strong Christian roots, from what I understand. There are also still Christian UUs (mostly in New England, I believe) but they remain a minority from what I can see.

There appears to be a rising theist movement in the denomination these days, but you're right...one of the things that grates me about UUism in general is a prevailing anti-Christian sentiment. It's there in the congregation I belong to, but we also have Christmas Eve services, have Christian theology as a part of our Sunday school curriculum, and other things related to Christianity. I know all that would be very controversial in some congregations, but there's a tenuous balance in our fellowship that I appreciate.

[K8-EEE]

What was the last straw for me was the right wing Communion Politics

Where some bishop starts a big campaign about how Kerry (or any DEM) can't have communion.....when this was going down Arnie was staging his big takeover of my state as governator with his big photo-ops of family at St. Monica's etc. Even thought he was pro-choice, nothing was said about denying HIM communion. So I was like, FUCK IT I don't want communion anymore it's all a big con. And then a couple of weeks later, after my oldest daughter finished her alter service I told my family I did not want to be a Catholic anymore. They were like, what?? no more going to mass? GREAT!! And that ended my 44 year church habit. I SURE HAVEN'T MISSED IT!

[K8-EEE]

40. DUPE SELF-delete

[saltpoint]

41. When Catholics start looking around for other venues and wind up

being refreshed at a UU, a change is at hand.

[JDPriestly]

42. In my Unitarian church, instead of having the Christian communion

with wine (or grape juice if you are a Methodist), each member brings a flower and walks up to the altar to give the flower to the church. Somehow giving something beautiful is for me, in this age of shoot-em-up TV and rampant alcoholism and drug addiction, a more meaningful ritual than the traditional Communion. The flowers focus on what we can give, not on what we take. And the flowers are full of promise and hope for Easter Sunday. They represent the rebirth that we experience each Spring. I really love the Flower Communion.

[Maat]

53. I just went to Flower Communion yesterday.

It was great.

[madisongrace]

50. I really like the UU Churches I have been to. n/t

[DeSwiss]

51. You....

- aren't alone.......

From the article: "Abuse hotline set up by Catholic Church in Germany melts down on first day as 4,000 people phone in"

"German media are calling the scandal 'the hour of the children'. Silent, often for decades after pressure was applied to both them and their families by the Church, they are now finding the courage to speak out. The effect on the Catholic Church in Germany has been profound; people are leaving in droves, de-registering with the government department that levies an annual tax of 800 pounds each on worshipers to fund it. A quarter of Catholics in Germany said in a recent survey they had lost faith in the Church leadership."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1263108/Abuse-hotline-set-Catholic-Church-Germany-melts-day-4-000-people-phone-in.html">link

[MorningGlow]

52. Before my husband and I were married

we went to a wedding--daughter of a coworker. I honestly don't remember which church it was--a Protestant denomination--and the service was fine, until it came time for the minister to deliver her sermon. It amounted to "fire and brimstone, marriage style"--she went ON and ON about how AWFUL marriage can be, and how the happy couple will HATE each other sometimes, and how MISERABLE they may find their lives, but they must persevere....Dayum, it sounded like she was talking about a shakedown cruise, not a marriage. (Now, I know that sugar-coating things isn't the right way to go either, but on the happiest day of these kids' lives, she could have put it a little better, I thought.)

Mr. MG and I scooted out of that church more determined than ever to have a HAPPY wedding ceremony. We found a UU minister who easily provided just that.

The kicker? After the fire-and-brimstone marriage, we were out on the lawn, greeting our coworker, when one of her friends came up and said, "Didn't the minister do a LOVELY job?" Yikes. Yeah, if you wanted to soil yourself!
:scared:

I agree with you, Monmouth--if the churches, be they Catholic, Protestant, or heck, not even Christian--ANY sort of religion--want to survive, they're going to have to pay more attention to what makes their congregations respond positively.

I'm thinking of joining a UU church, but there isn't one closer than a half-hour's drive from my village. Might be worth the trip, though. :hi:

[Maat]

54. And, there is an online UU church for those with transportation difficulties.

It is the Church of the Larger Fellowship.

http://clf.uua.org/#

[Manifestor_of_Light]

55. I left xtianity because it made me fucking suicidal. And I told them that.

I refuse to have my self worth and dignity impugned by some damn preacher telling me I'm bad because of a couple of fruit munching simpletons in a fairy tale that isn't even true. It's a parable.

Christianity is like a crooked prosecutor that charges you with a crime you didn't commit.

I know a fellow who is a Humanist minister and attends a UU church. He's a pretty cool dude. They don't have to get as much training as people who go to a full-fledged seminary (like the UUs, which have 2 seminaries). I think they have to spend a few months going to school.

Atheists are not all alike. And UU congregations are not all the same. Atheists/agnostics/the questioning need a community too.

I will keep being a secular humanist who reads Buddhism and considers herself a UU.

[DeSwiss]

57. "Christianity is like a crooked prosecutor that charges you with a crime you didn't commit."

- Can I use this??? {I'll give attribution}

[Ian David]

58. You have taken your first step into a larger world. n/t