Why do gay men say they are "straight-acting?"

[William769]

You’re either masculine or you’re not. Being gay doesn’t automatically equal being feminine.

:mad:

[Neoma]

1. Yeah.

Hear, Hear.

[Atman]

2. I think it's a fair characterization

One of my gay friends is extremely gay. He even does drag shows in PTown. He has the entire feminine affect. But I also have gay friends who you'd never know aren't anything but "manly men." Nothing to get angry about...just the facts!

[William769]

5. Sorry doesn't answer the question.

Why would a gay man want to act straight? It boggles the mind. Does this type of person hate himself that much?

And what the hell is :manley men"? Am I to assume these are the ones that beat up on the weaklings? Inquiring minds want to know!

[Demit]

8. I hope you are being stupidly sarcastic in your fourth question.

The person who took the time to answer your question about acting straight put manly men into quotes, hoping it would help. Instead you seem to deliberately misunderstand. I sort of wonder if you ever will.

[Atman]

9. No, I'm guess I'm not making myself clear.

It is personality. And please, let's not play games. I know you're trying to make a point, but you know exactly what I'm saying when I use the term "manly men." We're not in utopia yet, honey. It has NOTHING to do with anyone beating up on anyone.

By "manly man" I simply meant that he fits all our pre-conceived notions of what a "man" is in our society. He's a Jeep-drivin' outdoorsman type who can build you a deck and fix your car. I'm sure his neighbors would have no clue about his sexuality when they see him out working in the garage, etc. OTOH, to my otherfriend, "roughing it" means staying at a hotel without a hair dryer and a complimentary terry robe. He wears skirts to parties if he feels like it and he talks like Ru Paul. Neither one is bad. You seem to think the first friend should also act this way, as if that somehow shows he's not afraid of his sexuality. I'm saying, it has nothing to do with it. They just have differently personalities. No one is "trying" to be anybody, and that's what I like about them. They have diverse opinions and personalities and both are lots of fun to be with, and they're honest and caring. That is the only characteristic I look for in friends. You seem far more hung up on the labels than I am!

[William769]

14. And gay men don't fit this discription?

Thats my whole point.

As I stated in the original post you are either masculine or feminine.

I know Heterosexuals that are feminine in nateure, it's just who they are. So if Gay men "straight act", does this type of man Gay act?

[W_HAMILTON]

24. Yeah...

...and those heterosexuals are called metrosexuals I believe, so they get their own label as well. If you would prefer people call themselves "masculine" instead of "straight-acting," so be it. But guess what? Someone will probably have a problem with your choice of words to describe it as well. Call it whatever you want, and let other people call it whatever they want.

[Nightflurry]

46. I don't think it's a matter of wanting

I don't think it's often a matter of "want to act straight". Like me.. I just come off as straight to most people. Just the way I am. So often times when people find out I'm gay they'll make mention of how straight I act or come off as.

Eh, whatever. I just am who I am.

[madeline_con]

86. I'm not gay, so this is strictly from a hetero woman's POV....

Wouldn't there be times when a gay man would "act straight" for safety's sake? What with all the freaks out there who might want to hurt him.

:shrug:

[SacredCow]

16. Agreed

It's just a description of one's demeanor, as far as I'm concerned. I've never really thought about it that much, but I suppose I'm straight-acting. Moreover, I don't feel the need to advertise my sexuality with flags, bumper stickers, etc... Before anyone gets their hackles up, I'll also say, "Good on ya," to those who do get out there and promote it. It's just not on my personal agenda, much like it wasn't my agenda to promote heterosexuality when I was living that life.

Life isn't a "one size fits all" kind of thing, after all.

[Atman]

26. Good point...William is the one with a rainbow flag avatar.

He seems to be "advertising" his sexuality. Most people I know don't do this so overtly. My PTown friend doesn't have to, he is comfortable in skirts and make up. My "masculine" friend doesn't advertise his sexuality for the same reason most people don't...why is it anyone's business? If you want to make a statement, make a statement. That is your business. But it actually directly flies in the face of the argument William is making. He says "I'm just gay, period." But then he wants gay men to make a statement about it. But what if their "statement" is that their sexuality is their own business and therefore, none of yours? I mean...I anyone here put up an "I'M STRAIGHT!" avatar, can you imagine how pissed off all the gay members would become? Hmm?

[William769]

31. Your still missing the point.

If you want a straight avatar, go for it! More power to you, I will even help you make one!

[SacredCow]

34. I think this thread went off topic a bit...

My post included. It seems to me that you were asking why a gay man should feel it necessary to point out that he's straight-acting, rather than let his actions speak for him. You seldom see straight men map themselves on a masculinity chart, so why should it be any different for gay men? I guess the answer lies in the most common stereotype of gay men, which is something akin to Jack's character on "Will and Grace." And men like that, quite frankly, draw a LOT of attention to themselves and homosexuality. So, the naiive among the general population tend to think that gay = prissy boy. And I know MANY gay men who take great offense at being lumped into that category, which is probably why so many tend to declare themselves straight-acting. I'm sure there are other reasons (denial, embarrasment, etc...), since "The truth is rarely pure, and never simple." (Oscar Wilde)

My $0.02!

[William769]

35. You are correct, it did go off the topic, but someone did it on purpose.

Trolling comes to mind.

The reason I posted this thread to begin with, I have a problem with the "straight acting type" Why not just take the plunge and go muff diving!

[SacredCow]

37. You'll have to excuse me....

I just threw up in my mouth a little after that last sentence.... :puke: :rofl:

But for clarification, do you mean that you have a problem with men who 'behave' in such a manner, or men that feel they need to advertise themselves as such? I hope it's the latter....

[William769]

41. I have a problem with Gay men who feel they need to use that term

To describe themselves. You can be Gay & masculine, it has noting to do with acting like a straight person.

[SacredCow]

43. That's what I thought...

No worries- sorry this thread turned into another arguement entirely! Not the first time, though, and certainly not the last!

:grouphug:

[mitchtv]

54. straight acting?

WTF?:puke:
I like masculine men, but "straight acting"? that reeks of something

[readmoreoften]

84. It's not being "extremely" gay, it's being extremely feminine.

Is someone who is a leather daddy with biceps "less gay"? Straight people don't have a lock on gender. Straight people don't get to own "masculinity" for men or "femininity" for women. I'm a femme lesbian and if anyone said that I'm "straight" acting, I'd take that as an ignorant slur. Femme lesbians have a long history in lesbian culture and just because a straight person can't tell the difference between me and a straight women doesn't mean that butch lesbians can't.

I'm not "straight acting".

[Glorfindel]

3. It's just shorthand...otherwise, we assume they look and act

like Chi Chi Larue. "Straight-acting" makes us think of Brad Pitt. :hi:

[skooooo]

18. Or Rock Hudson!

[Warpy]

4. They may have internalized some of the hate they've had to

put up with and think they have to "pass" if they're to survive a day without being beaten to a pulp.

I sympathise.

I suppose you're referring to personal ads. "Straight acting" is just code for "I won't embarrass you in public and put our safety in danger."

[Atman]

6. Then why to some gay men call themselves "bears?"

Isn't ANY label "bad," then? If you're just a man, why the label at all? It isn't actually about the sexuality, it is about the personality. Face it, labels do have purposes that are not always sinister. Warpy's post is spot on, especially if one is referring to a person they've never met. My swishy drag-queen friend causes quite a stir wherever he goes, in a way that my "straight acting" friend never would.

[Ian David]

11. I had the "label" discussion with a lesbian friend of mine...

Apparently, some people in gay culture engage in a complex nomenclature of multi-level labeling that involves things like, Stone lesbians, iron lesbians, etc.

I suggested a new label that she found amusing-- "Teflon Lesbian." That would be a woman to whom no relationship can stick.

Pay attention and let me know if anyone ever starts using that one.

I don't remember the details, but it reminded me of middle school preppy, stoner, punk labels that we used to use in complex pigeon-holing of people into categories.

[Shipwack]

33. "Iron lesbian"?

Sorry to threadjack, but that one is new to me (and a google/wiki search wasn't helpful)... Now granted, being a bi male, I don't know all the secret handshakes, hanky codes, etc, but I do like to keep up on things. So what constitutes an "Iron Lesbian"? Is that a stone lesbian taken to 11? :)

[Ian David]

36. I'm not sure I got it right. I might be wrong about the "iron" lesbians

But there were apparently all different kinds beyond the familiar butch, lipstick, femme, chaotic-neutral and lesbian/magic-user types I had never heard of.

[readmoreoften]

74. I've never heard of Iron Lesbian. Sounds like a metal band.

I'm a femme and I only date stone butches. If there was such a thing as an "iron lesbo" I probably would've heard about it. A lot of misunderstandings that gay men have is that they assume that lesbians are jus the "gender opposite" of them. (Not saying you're one of the misunderstanders, Ian...) We're not. We have a different history and a different culture.

For example, we don't ever describe ourselves as "straight-acting", and being "straight-acting" is not synonymous with femininity (as butchness is for men). Our femmeness is a sexual style, not an inclination to pass, and is usually very queer. Femmes are generally pissed about their inability to be recognized as lesbians and we often talk about "femme invisibility" not "whew! sure am glad no one notices I'm a dyke!" When we pass for straight it is generally an irritation or something that must be verbally countered (and that's when we land in dangerous territory with the homophobes.)

I think the closest we can get to "straight-acting" is certain kinds of androgenous lesbians who effect femme sensibilities in order to pass into corporate culture. Like the woman who wears a suit and just-enough lipstick and two tiny gold earrings so employers aren't "scared" by her butchness.

Personally, I am chaotic evil with a +10 charisma. ;)

[Ian David]

76. Well, let me know if you hear of Teflon Lesbians and Velcro Lesbians

I made those two up for my friend Kerry.

And I guess now I've invented Iron Lesbians, too.

(I guess Velcro Lesbians would come in two varieties-- hook and loop?)

[gator_in_Ontario]

89. Teflon Lesbian...I love it! n/t

[meegbear]

12. A bear is a hairy gay male ...

usually large framed and bearded. Straight men can be bears too, it's just what you want to call yourself.

What does your "swishy drag-queen friend" refer to oneself as?

[Atman]

27. My "swishy drag-queen friend" refers to himself as...

"flamboyent." He's as comfortable with himself as anyone I've ever met.

[meegbear]

30. Then that's all that matters in the end ...

if a person wants to define themselves as "straight-acting" or use any other way to describe/define themselves, gay or otherwise, so be it.

[William769]

7. It's a cop out to hide who they are is what it is.

[Atman]

10. Why do you assume they're "hiding" anything?

How do you think I know my "straight acting" friend ain't so straight?

[William769]

15. Friend is the key word in your statement.

[skooooo]

20. Why do you care ...?

Straight or gay. A friend is a friend.

[Warpy]

44. Yes, but in most areas of the country, it's a survival skill

I know. I used to live in the south. I was an occasional "beard" at corporate parties and the like. I never minded, knew what the score was, and the food was great. Then on the way home, we'd dish everybody who was there, great fun.

Being who they were would have gotten them fired plus dangerous to their health.

I hope that some day we get to the point where gay men can be as flamboyant as they want to be and when women can walk around outdoors without all that fear we all have. Until then, I'll cut any of us a lot of slack for protecting ourselves by modifying our public actions.

[William769]

45. Sorry, but this thread was never intended to be about "flamboyant"

[insleeforprez]

83. For me, it's not a facade

I "act straight" not because I have to, but because that is who I am. Sure, I like men, but I also love the Red Sox and the sport of crew. And both of those pre-date my sexuality.

But you are right, to say that one is "acting straight" creates a straw man. It implies the existence of a negative opposite, "acting gay," meaning flamboyant. Therefore, I agree that I should find a better way to say "acting straight," but at this point, it seems solely an issue of semantics.

[BOSSHOG]

13. May I suggest pragmatism

I'm sure it might be difficult for a gay man to find employment if he were not "acting" straight. Gays in the military have to do it and I find that extremely sad. I hope the two cents worth from a old straight guy helps.

[William769]

17. Let me put this a different way.

I am retired from the Florida Law enforcement of 20 years. I go fishing, camping, play football. Basically I do all the things a person does that he loves to do (to numerous to list here.)I have never once considered I was "straight acting". I am a gay man end of sentence period! Now weather I act masculine or feminine that is in the eye of the beholder.

Until gay men themselves can overcome this, how in the hell should we expect anyone else to.

[skooooo]

19. Yeah but some gay men....

...exaggerate part of their personality, or inclinations and talk / act effeminate - exaggerating it. There's nothing wrong with this. Straight people do the same thing I suppose. Not trying to start a flame war -

[W_HAMILTON]

22. Sounds like you're nit-picking a bit...

I've never described myself as "straight-acting," like it's something I would put in my resume as a term used to describe me, but in a way, that's how I see myself. You can call it whatever you want to call it. I don't have a lisp, I don't flail my wrists around and make all kinds of grandeous gestures, I'm not great when it comes to fashion, etc. A lot of the qualities that many people consider to be associated with gay people, I don't have. I'm pretty much your run-of-the-mill, everyday guy, whatever label you want to put on that.

So I'll probably chewed out for mentioning those things, but like it or not, that's what alot of people associate with gay people. Of course, being a gay person, I know that gay people do not always exhibit these qualities, but other people who only know about stereotypes apparently don't know that. Like I said, you can call it whatever you want to call it. A normal guy? A normal gay guy? A gay guy? Whatever you want to call it, it just seems like arguing over semantics to me.

[Atman]

25. You seem confused, William.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. You're describing PERSONALITY, not sexuality. In fact, from the statements in your posts, I'm not sure what it is you're even getting at...is there an "official" way to act gay? When you say things like "until gay men can overcome this..." Uh, what is it you want them to overcome? What if a gay man happens to be very effeminate? Can't he act that way? And since you're apparently NOT effeminate, aren't you really answering your own question? It is in the eye of the beholder, sure, but I'll tell you again, if you see my two gay friends together, there's no "eye of the beholder" about it...one is as close to a "stereotypical" gay man as you'll ever meet. The other you'd have no way of knowing. What do you want either of them to do? Should the less obvious guy start kissing the men in the room in order to "overcome" whatever it is you want him to overcome? Because, brother, if he was straight and started kissing people who didn't want to be kissed, I'd have a real problem with that, too! I just don't know what it is you're getting at. Faking a personality one doesn't have just to "overcome" his own sexuality is still FAKING IT. Neither of my friends fake it...they just are who they are. To deny the definitions "feminine" and "masculine" doesn't serve any purpose. Some of us are feminine. Some of us are masculine. Some of us are pretty comfortable either way.

[William769]

32. what is it you want them to overcome

Oy vey!

[TechBear_Seattle]

21. I would say it is a bit of internalized homophobia

Sometimes I'm super butch. Sometimes I'm gayer than a tree full of chickadees at sunrise. Sometimes I'm a professional geek. Always, I'm myself.

But some people are more comfortable with a particular mask. If it makes them feel safe to wear just a "straight" mask and keep the others in the closet... fine with me, as long as they don't expect me to do the same.

[W_HAMILTON]

23. Or maybe some people are just like that....

Being gayer than a tree full of chicakdees at sunrise, that just doesn't come natural to me. That's not who I am. I'm sure a lot of other gay people feel the same way. I don't have alot of the stereotypical "gay" characteristics, outside of the fact there's no denying that I like guys :)

Just because you are being yourself, and that doesn't happen to be a super, ultra-gay guy or something, that doesn't mean you are homophobic, or you hate yourself, or anything else that's been suggested here. It could just mean you are being yourself.

[TechBear_Seattle]

28. I wasn't clear, then

We tend to wear masks that hide our true selves. This lets us "put on an appropriate face" when situations demand it: sitting in a classroom trying to learn, going to a job interview, meeting the future in-laws for the first time. A person with a good sense of self-esteem finds it easier to drop the masks and just be himself. He believes that his unmasked personality is worth sharing with others. A person with a weaker sense of self-esteem finds it more difficult to drop the masks. He believes that his unmasked personality is not worth sharing with others or is otherwise "unacceptable."

I would say that those people who describe themselves as "straight acting" or who are looking only to make friends with others who are "straight acting" believe that their gayness is something unacceptable, and so they feel compelled to keep on a "straight acting" mask and expect others around them to do the same. Whether or not they are straight acting is not the point; the issue is keeping up that facade and not letting it drop.

[W_HAMILTON]

40. Well yeah, there's that...

...and then just how you would normally act, around people you feel comfortable with. I'm sure gay people sometimes disguise who they are, as do straight people. How I would act in front of a boss or somebody, is different than how I would act around my friends.

But it sounds like you are trying to combine the two, and that's what I didn't agree with. I think at some point, everyone "wears a mask" for one reason or another. But I wouldn't extend that to say that gay people that don't act "ultra-gay" are denying themselves, or something. I don't have a lot of the "typical" gay characteristics, and most people who just met me probably wouldn't assume I'm gay. That's not me hiding it per se, that's just me being me. If you want to call it masculine (I wouldn't, I don't particularly like that term for some reason), or "straight-acting," or whatever, so be it.

[Atman]

29. You're middle initial isn't "P" by any chance, is it?

I see you're relatively new here, and since you can see my screen name, you know why I'm asking! Are you...could you be...?? Would you answer me honestly if you are?

[W_HAMILTON]

39. Sorry...

Nope, it's not P :) Since I guess I'm not who you're thinking I might be, I didn't understand the rest of your message.

[xchrom]

38. gay men are evil. to be criticized by other gay men

at every turn.

leave people alone to live their lives -- to describe themselves as they see fit.

how many gay men does it take to screw in a light bulb?

36 --

1 to screw in the light bulb

35 to sit around and criticize.

[William769]

42. Just some food for thought

If you want to stay in the closet & be a good little "straight acting" good boy, then so be it. But stay the hell out of my way to fight for whats right.

[xchrom]

47. lol -- just some food for thought for you.

i've been out since 1968.

and you're not fighting for what's right by telling somebody who wants to indentify as acting straight -- they're not telling you that
they're against getting legal equality -- they are telling you they perceive themselves that they act a certain way.

it's none of your damn bsiness how they want to think of themselves.

you're the one expressing some kind of internalized battle by letting their designation piss you off.

get a shrink.

[William769]

49. For someone who's been out since 1968...

Most Gay Republicans are Straight acting. If you want to act straight why not just be straight?

And yes Most closed mouth closeted inbred &$#@!&^ are doing the gay movement a disservice!

It's very hard to fight for something when you refuse to acknowledge that you are one.

In the 50's Homosexuals wore suit & ties to prove they were just as "normal" some Gays keep trying to prove they are normal. Whats normal? Now who needs the shrink?

[xchrom]

51. do you have any actual proof of anything you've

just said -- or is this straight acting thing driving you that fuckin out of your gourd?

isn't jerry falwell up everybodies ass enough?

now we have to check in with each other to see if we're gay in the right way?

dude -- seriously -- you need some fuckin help.

[William769]

56. Know your history

Nuff said.

ON EDIT: In case you even care the documentary is called Pre Stonewall

[xchrom]

59. sigh -- i give up.

have it your way -- change the world one personal ad at a time.

[William769]

67. I will be the first to admit, I don't always get my point across in a

Precise way.

I found something would like you to read if you don't mind. Here is just a piece.

"Sadly, I think this debate exposes a wide streak of self-hatred among some gay men. Isn’t it fair to guess that at least a few of these über-masculine gay guys are compensating for their feeling that being homosexual means being not as much of a man as straight men? How else to explain their almost pathological fear and disdain of drag-queens and mincing Nancy-boys? The queens and the fairies, by being themselves, shatter the definition of “manly”--and even “male”--that the tough guys use to define themselves."

http://www.gusmattox.com/Soapbox_straightacting.html

[xchrom]

70. doesn't it occur to you that if there is one

then there is the other?

gay men -- like every other, well, men every where -- come in every stripe imagineable.

as far as i know -- gay headquarters has not issued a memoranda on the correct way to be gay in the world.

it's conversations like these that i find objectionable -- oh that gay crew ain't right -- and that gay crew and that gay crew and on and on.

there's no end.

gay people are never, ever going to crank out a perfect generation of gay folk -- never gonna happen.

and thank god cause that would be boring.

[Puglover]

87. Oh Christ on a crutch.

do you have a fucking clue as to how pompous you sound? You are arguing semantics here. Seems to me you can't see the forest through the trees. How EXACTLY is a gay man describing himself as "straight acting" in the way of your fight for what's right? :eyes:

I've been out since I was 26 and when a friend male or female tells me "you would never know by the way you act that you are gay" I do NOT take it as a compliment. Generally my reply is something off color like "Really, I would think the fact that I live with my partner and really really like dick is a dead give away."

In case you haven't noticed many MANY gay men have a fetish for seducing straight guys. And some are quite vocal and proud of it. But as I always say, "if the guy is messing with you he ain't straight."

[closeupready]

48. I think I know what William is saying.

"Straight-acting" is almost always offered up as a desirable feature in personal ads, like "muscular" or "swimmer's build". As though "acting gay", in comparison, is a negative drawback.

Well, you know what? (I often want to respond with hands on my hips.) There is nothing wrong with being gay or acting gay. And someone straight-acting is no more likely, in my experience, to be good in bed or more loyal a friend or anything else than someone gay-acting. If anything, that may be an indicator of someone who is only looking for casual sex.

So, I also resent that set of values that says gay is lesser than straight.

[William769]

50. You hit the nail right on the head!

"So, I also resent that set of values that says gay is lesser than straight."

What is so hard to understand about that?

[Atman]

52. Hehehe...you said "head"

Oh come on now. William never made any such allusion. There is nothing about "straight acting" that says "gay is lesser than straight." It says "stereotypically gay acts different than stereotypically straight." And STEREOTYPICAL is really the only key word here. Without these stereotypical images etched into our mind, we'd have nothing to discuss either way. But they aren't going away.

The "gays are lesser" part is only in one's own sense of persecution. That is what is so hard to understand about that. You're not being honest with yourself if you insist on pushing this absurd notion that everybody is the same and that the labels we use are the only things which separate us. Bullshit. Our personalities differentiate us, our looks differentiate us, our speech does, out tits do, our dicks do...WE'RE DIFFERENT! If you're so hung up on not wanting to appear "different" then "act straight." Or "normal" or "white" or "black" or "flamboyant" or "macho" or "bear" or "twink" or whatever the fuck it is you're using as this mysterious benchmark! But deal with this: there are 300,000,000 people in this country. I don't WANT us all to be the same! How boring would THAT be?

[closeupready]

55. But he just confirmed that on some level, that IS what he meant

He and I may be of the same and background, and share similar experiences, so that we understand the same code words, that "straight-acting, straight-appearing" is often presented as a sexually desirable thing.

When we introduce ourselves to new people, we don't present our warts, we present our best features. Therefore, a man who would introduce himself (whether online or in a classified, etc.) as "straight-acting, straight-appearing" is implying that "I'm not some queeny Priscilla Queen of the Desert Gay man - I'm hot (straight-acting, straight-appearing)."

It's like black people who would take pride in being able to "pass" as not black.

Same sort of mentality at work.

[readmoreoften]

75. I agree. And as far as I'm concerned it doesn't mean "butch" either.

Ain't nothing "straight-acting" about a leather daddy or big furry bear. Maybe "straight-acting" is sex ad code for "Log Cabin Republican." ?

But whatta I know. I'm a dyke.

[RedXIII]

53. you're right a great many gay men were masculine

Including Clive Baker,Rock hudson,James Dean(the very definition of masculine),and Mark Bingham who attacked the Hijackers on flight 93 on 9/11{you want to tell me he was half a man he sacrificed his life for his country.}

[William769]

57. I seem to have offended some queens.

I guess I must have hit a raw nerve (which is what I meant to do).

I'm working on a thread now about "manely men" God you got to love that term :sarcasm:

And everyone that will be mentioned and pictured will have one thing in common. SHHHH they are dare I say HOMOSEXUALS!

[Atman]

58. You're drunk

Or maybe it just appeared that way because of the typos and butchered English.

[xchrom]

60. it's a revelation isn't it -- that gay people

want to describe their personalities to other gay people -- in order to tell something about themselves on a ''map''.

the op seems to think that simply by stating that he has a problem that is in fact ''a problem''.

oh. god. that's dizzying but then like i said -- gay men LOVE to critisize gay men -- conservatives will never ever beat us at that game.

[Guy Fawkes]

61. like masculine or feminine,

which are seperate from their respective sexes but defined by them, "straight acting" and "gay acting" are both defined by the sexuality you'll likely find them in, but they aren't limited there. If that made any sense...

[kweerwolf]

62. When I see a gay man who brags about being "straight-acting" ...

... it's usually a good sign that I need to head in the other direction ... FAST! That's a flashing bright red warning light that loudly proclaims: "I have 'issues'!"

It's the same way with the whole "bear" movement that pathologizes masculinity to the point of constantly bickering about who's the butchiest of them all (and usually accompanied by wrists flailing and voices that sound like Truman Capote on helium).

The point is, if you really are "straight-acting" or "butch," then it's apparent. If you have to proclaim your "butchness," then it's called "over compensating."

Perhaps a drag queen friend of mine says it best: "Honey, just how straight-acting to you think you look when you've got another guy's **** in your mouth?"

[William769]

65. Hi! Where the hell have you been?

:hi:

[FuzzyDicePHL]

71. I like to say that I'm me-acting.

Thanks for your post.

After reading, then skimming starting at about halfway down, this thread, I've found your post to most closely mirror my own ideas on these subjects: bears, "straight-acting" = issues, and over-compensating (which I call, "male impersonating").

My friend, William, challenges the use of "straight-acting" with, "What does that mean? That you f@ck vaginas?"

[Maven]

73. Truman Capote on helium!!!

:rofl:

:spank: bad wolf!

[Puglover]

88. ROFL that is really REALLY funny.

"It's the same way with the whole "bear" movement that pathologizes masculinity to the point of constantly bickering about who's the butchiest of them all (and usually accompanied by wrists flailing and voices that sound like Truman Capote on helium)."





I was in a bar once and and saw a very hot guy in leather. Just enough to look really really good. I mentioned it to a friend. He said "oh honey I've been home with her, she's got a chandelier in every corner of her fuckin living room." I almost wet my pants.

[kweerwolf]

63. Interesting article related to "masculinity"

From The Washington Blade:

Finnerty loses community-service deal in anti-gay case

A criminal psychologist said Collin Finnerty, the Duke University lacrosse player charged with rape and assault, could be attempting to prove his masculinity.

Karen Franklin, a California psychologist who specializes in evaluating criminal defendants, said there are similarities between Finnerty’s rape case in North Carolina and his alleged D.C. assault in which the victim was called gay.

She pointed out that the alleged crimes were committed within groups, against weaker targets, and might have represented attempts by Finnerty to prove himself to his "hyper-masculine" lacrosse team peers.

"Masculinity is something that has to be proven," she said. "It is not innate or natural. It’s something young men have to establish, and they have to establish it publicly."

http://www.washblade.com/2006/4-27/news/localnews/finnerty.cfm

Just stumbled across this while reading some online news sources and thought it was germaine to the discussion.

[Obamarama]

64. Oh. Good. GOD.

William...I think we get it. You have a problem with it. Now deal with it. Just because you have a problem with it doesn't mean it's a travesty so unjust that it threatens to send Gaydom into extinction.

You're saying that you are ticked with people who don't perceive themselves the way YOU think they should perceive themselves. Wouldn't it be a fantastic, little world if everything went according to our own personal ideals.

Personally, I describe myself as masculine. That being said, I don't have an issue with the term "straight acting." I think its used to communicate what a person ISN'T, as to what a person IS.

Do you have a problem with people who call themselves "black" as opposed to "African American?" "Latino" as opposed to "Hispanic?" "Asian" as opposed to "Oriental?" I suspect not.

There are many colors to that rainbow flag you sport as your avitar. If you're going to fly that flag, then at least encompass its ideals: that everyone is welcome under the umbrella of the gay community - including those who call themselves straight-acting.

I understand where you are coming from, but quite frankly I think we have broader issues to get rankled over than what adjectives someone uses to describe themselves.

[William769]

66. I do not disagree with what you say.

You are correct everyone is welcome under our umbrella, it just a shame though how many are taking a free ride.

[closeupready]

78. Yeah. The only two things I would point out,

in William's defense, are two things any DU member of longstanding knows well:

1) "words matter"; and

2) There are 77 responses posted to this thread! It obviously interests a lot of GLBT members. LOL :D

Peace. :hi:

On edit, I do want to point out that I agree with the idea that we should try to think twice about criticizing those of our own community, since homophobes will do that anyway. You know, "why feed the religious reich's sense of self-righteousness?"

[kdpeters]

68. I always assumed 'straight-acting' meant closetted.

Meaning, they 'act straight' in public so no one will know they're gay.

[dsc]

69. I admit to having a simliar problem with that

There really should be some other code for masculine in gay personal ads. Of all places gay newspapers shouldn't feed into the notion that staight and masculine mean the same thing.

[Maven]

72. It's code for

"repressed and probably terrible in bed."

Seriously though, don't let it bother you. I think the funniest thing about guys who describe themselves this way is that they tend to be MORE obvious than those people who just act normally. In other words, they give themselves away anyway by overcompensating for their own fear of being perceived as gay. Living in Manhattan, I have to tell you, most actual straight guys here now dress BETTER than their gay counterparts, have more expensive haircuts, whatever, because they don't have anything to prove. Meanwhile, stroll down eighth avenue and watch a parade of gay men in "straight" drag--flat-top haircuts, cargo everything, storebought muscles, camouflage, etc.

In truth, the term "straight-acting" does evidence an underlying assumption that there is a hierarchy in which "masculine-straight" > "flamboyant-gay." This is what really bothers you. But it sounds like you have nothing to prove since you're the real deal anyway.

Be happy you don't have to dress it up, and look upon those who do with bemusement rather than anger. Hey, look at it this way: they're doing you a favor. Now you can easily identify the fictional people you don't want to date!

[ShalachEtAmi]

77. I have seen a lot of Effeminate straight guys..and In the Army I saw a lot

...of very Masculine Gay guys...

(Effeminate straight guys seem to be a lot more tolerant in my experience)

Maybe its kinda like Penis Envy..

........or a manifestation of (I hate to say it) self loathing?

[kevinbgoode]

79. When a man indicates that to me, I always assume it means. . .

he passes gas at will, is unconscionably selfish, can't replace the batteries in the television remote and views romance as a chorelist to get to an orgasm.

[TaleWgnDg]

80. Uuummmm . . . wtf? Is this La Gage Aux Folles? . . . n/t

[zcflint09]

81. It's thier own homophobic side coming out a bit

The "Super-Queer" still scares some people off, so alot of guys tend to describe themselves as this to others to try to not highlight there homosexuality so much. However, I could really give a crap less what I "act" like. I'm gay, even if I wanted to chop wood, go hunting and play football. None of us are "straight-acting" in bed!

[sui generis]

82. you've got it backwards

being "straight" doesn't alway mean you're masculine.

:rofl:

it's all about stereotypes and role playing. I also think that some people who use that phrase are not into all the "drama" that seems to surround those who are more, uh, drama oriented.

There are other attributes besides the feminine they may be referring to: i.e., "no strings attached", "no OCD obsessions with wardrobe, design, personal grooming", etc. Like I said, stereotypes. There is more than a grain of truth to that as we all know.

not worth getting mad over.

[Tenseiga]

85. Can some explain what it means to...

"act straight"?

[begin_within]

90. "Straight-acting" merely means you don't do housework.

[zonmoy]

91. It definitely does not

if it did then my fundy family would have definitely figured out that I am gay from the way I act. believe me that would probably have been bad enough for them to drive me to talk about committing suicide again.