Lupus: Anyone familiar with it? My 11 year old niece was just diagnosed

[linazelle]

She broke out with a rash all over her face and it has spread--from two red dots on each cheek Monday, to her entire face and eyelids today.

I've read a bit about it and I once had a boss who had it. It seems that it is not often fatal. Also read that victims needs to stay out of sunlight.

What worries me is the steroids that I read about which will weaken the bones and stunt growth as well as change appearance. Kidney disease is another possibility--perhaps related to steroid use? :shrug:

Does anybody know if you have to take medication all the time or only during episodes? Any info you can provide would be helpful as my sister is really upset since we have have been fortunate not to have had any serious illnesses in the family.

[liberalnurse]

1. I never heard of it with children....

I'm not saying it can't but I just never heard it diagnosed in a child. It is an auto immune disease and it can be fatal. It has episodes of crisis and remissions and it moves to different organs.

[gordianot]

2. I have had two family members die with this disease.

It is very complex there is a lot of support online. My mother was medicated all of the time.

[thinkingwoman]

3. get 2nd, 3rd, and 4th opinions...

maybe more!

My mother has been living with this disease since the 80s. She does NOT take any meds.

BUT, each case must be treated individually, under the care of a competent and kind physician. With your niece only being 11, your fears about the side effects of powerful medications are well-founded. So get those multiple opinions and pick what is best for her.

Good luck and tell her to hang in there! Lots of people live long, happy, productive lives with lupus.

[liberalnurse]

4. Here is a quick link.

http://www.cerebel.com/lupus/overview.htm

http://www.medicinenet.com/systemic_lupus/article.htm

I agree that you need a second opinion. Go to a University/Teaching Hospital.....

[Karenca]

5. There are 2 kinds of lupus

One is much more serious than the other.
I have 2 friends with the disease...One has the more serious kind. She's had it now for over 20 years.

[Warren Stupidity]

6. The kidney disease is part of the syndrome

Lupus attacks various organs including kidneys. It is not a good thing to have, but it is also something that you can live with for a long time. I almost got diagnosed a long time ago, instead I just have some unquantifiable intermittent auto-immune type thing going on that isn't lupus and that so far hasn't caused me serious harm. Vanishingly rare in males anyhow.

[Karenca]

7. Cutaneous lupus erythematosus affects the skin.

Systemic lupus erythematosus attacks multiple systems in the body.

snip> Lupus is not a universally fatal disease. In fact, today with close follow-up and treatment, 80-90% of the people with lupus can expect to live a normal life span. Lupus does vary in intensity and degree, however, and there are people who have a mild case, there are those who have a moderate case and there are some who have a severe case of lupus, which tends to be more difficult to treat and bring under control. For people who have a severe flare-up, there is a greater chance that their lupus may be life-threatening. We know that some people do die of this disease and because of that we have a tremendous amount of respect for the potential of this disease. However, the majority of people living with lupus today can expect to live a normal lifespan.

http://www.lupus.org/education/faq.html#2

[linazelle]

8. Thank you all--especially for the info on 2/3/4 opinions and not

having to take meds indefinitely--as well as for the links.

I'll be learning more and see what we can do to help her with this.

I knew I could count on DU if I couldn't count on anybody else and as usual, you came through. :hi: :loveya:

[libodem]

9. sorry to hear about your niece

My ex-husband had lupus. They rate it mild, moderate, severe. It is an autoimmune disease. The white cells don't recognize the body as something different from a foreign invader. The disease manifests in an arthritis like condition esp. in joints that have some damage. The white cells go on double-duty to clean up, so they inflame the joints. I know we aren't supposed to give advice in the medical area but this is just a short description. There are many different ways this disease manifests on the skin, organs, joints. There is a systemic type and a mainly skin type (discoid). The sun does make the disease worse. I'm not sure why exactly. The butterfly rash across the nose and cheeks looks like a sunburn. Maybe the radiation changes the skin antigens just enough to make the white cells get busy. Stress also will cause flares or exacerbation of the disease. It's best to rest when tired and try not to get run down. A person can be quite normal for periods of time as Lupus can be in remission. You should go look it up on the internet. Jeff's doctor was big on saying don't go look up everything you can find...it will scare you and chances are you will have none or few of the symptoms. Hope your niece will be fine. Lots of people live long, productive lives, with Lupus.

[linazelle]

15. Thanks for the warning about the bevy of info. I appreciate it. n/t

[Dover]

10. A friend of mine had it. She was miserable and gained so much

weight...became very bloated on the medicines they were giving her for the symptoms (like steroids). The drugs didn't help any of her painful systems much. Finally she took matters into her own hands, stopped all the drugs and went on a strict new diet that combined certain foods (can't recall the name of it). I just remember she ate her fruit at a separate time from meat dishes. She also checked herself for food allergies and based on that no longer ate wheat and some other things, but added more fruits and veggies, plus did gentle exercise. After about 6 months she had lost a LOT of weight and the Lupus competely cleared. I saw her before and then after (not inbetween) and she looked like a new person...better than I'd ever seen her. And she felt like a new person. That was several years ago and she's still free of the Lupus.

So while I'm not recommending this particular diet or regimen, I hope you will remember that there are alternatives to the regular medical route to consider. Also might check out my thread in this forum regarding the hormonal imbalances that seem to be behind many of the immune dysfunctions that are cropping up.

[linazelle]

11. Sounds like a macrobiotic diet. That is good to hear--that diet can

also help. Of course, it is tough to get a child to follow a strict diet...but if things are really bad, it's something to keep in mind.

[Dover]

20. Kids and food....lol! Yep that's a tough one. However I'm certain it

was NOT a macrobiotic diet. I wish I could remember the name of the book she used. It was more about which foods get eaten together and which separately, though I can't recall the rationale.

[pnwmom]

19. Lupus can be related to gluten-intolerance as well,

which can be detected with a blood test.

Gluten is a protein found in wheat, barley, oats, and some other grains, as well as processed foods that contain them. There is a higher incidence of all auto-immune diseases, including Lupus, among people with gluten intolerance (or Celiac disease).

I think your niece should be tested for gluten intolerance as well as food allergies. If she has any problems related to diet, dealing with this could improve her overall health and help with the Lupus.

[Dover]

21. Yes, that's what my friend discovered, and cut out those grains completely

I asked her what foods were left once you remove so many grains and she said she found a number of good alternatives. So maybe she discovered the gluten problem you are referring to.

[pnwmom]

22. Rice, corn, potatoes are probably the major ones left. And natural food

stores sell a lot of flours made from rice, soybeans, etc.

[Mend]

12. The Lupus Foundation of America has a special section

on Childhood Lupus. It can be worse than the adult form so this needs to be taken very seriously.

[linazelle]

16. Thank you. nt

[Warpy]

13. It used to be fatal

with the average length from diagnosis to death 7 years. However, there was a whole range within that and treatments have improved. Most people with lupus live normal lifespans if they take care of themselves.

The medications she'll be on will depend entirely on the disease pattern. Some poeple are able to control their illness with low dose prednisone; a lucky few have one episode and go into remission and never have another; a very unlucky few (less than 5%) experience a rapid and fulminating course of the disease and it's fatal in them. Most people have exacerbations and remissions and are on heavy meds only when the disease is active. The good news is that it can be controlled in 95% of cases.

Steroids can cause weight gain, so just watch what she's eating if she needs to go on a high dose for a while. Kidney disease can be a complication of lupus but has nothing to do with steroid use, which is one of the things that controls the damage. As for osteoporosis, it's a consideration, but I'm OLD and I've been on and off steroids for decades and I haven't lost any height. I do take calcium, magnesium, and the RDA of vitamin D. Any kid's multivitamin with calcium will do for her.

The one thing to watch out for with all the collagen vascular diseases is the potential for quackery. Since the disease often seems to have a mind of its own, you'll hear about miraculous cures all over the place. Please approach them with a great degree of skepticism and run like hell if any of these practitioners tells you to stop conventional treatment.

I've been living with this disease since I was fourteen. Like most chronic illnesses, it is mostly a nuisance, a pain in the ass, something I always have to consider. You'll have to make sure she gets her lab work done frequently and monitor her carefully. If she says she's tired, respect it. She's not going to have to live in a cave, but exposure to sun should be minimized with light long sleeved shirts, hats, sunglasses, sunscreen---you know, the stuff we should all be doing. Basking in a string bikini will be out, tough on a teenager, but she probably wouldn't enjoy it anyway. I never did.

This diagnosis is hard on a kid who wants to be normal. She's allowed to sulk and to have the occasional temper tantrum over it. Just keep an eye on it and make sure her rheumatologist is on top of things.

Good luck to you both.

[linazelle]

14. Thank you for the in-depth information. n/t

[beyurslf]

17. My aunt has lupus. She has had it forever (as long as I can remember)

She is fine. She does avoid the sun but I dont know if they is because of the lupus or her pale skin tone.

[GoldenOldie]

18. Also check for a local Lupus support group

As a larnygectomee cancer survivor I have learned more from other laryngectomee's both locally and Nationally. In fact many of those within the medical professions are totally unaware of the what a larnygectomee is and welcome learning from us. As one of my doctors told me, that as a medical student you may only have one or two days instruction on any specific medical problem therefore they cannot be knowledgeable on each and every medical problem.

Well formed support groups can provide much of the information you will need and as each member may have or had a different situation/problem they were confronted with you learn from each other. These support groups usually have a medical advisor, one which is well educated on the particular disease. A well run support group also stays in contact with the individual groups and the National group around the country, thus keeping you well informed on all the latest advances in treatments, etc.

I have been called in many times to speak to patients who have been just diagnosed with cancer of the vocal cords and soon after surgery to answer their questions and aid them in their recovery and rehab. I know how much it meant for me and my family and how it eased many of our fears to have someone who had actually been there and done that sit down and talk and answer all our questions.

My best to the little one and she is very fortunate to have you in her life.

[philb]

23. Lupus is an autoimmune condition, testable and treatable, usually curable

or controlable

It has been documented that most with lupus are immune reactive to nickel or mercury, and that reducing exposures to these
will usually significantly improve the condition. I would suggest checking for toxic exposures to mercury and nickel-
mercury in amgalgam fillings or vaccinations, nickel in metal braces or tooth caps, etc.
And consider a blood immune reactivity test like MELISA (www.melisa.org) to various toxics to find out the primary immune reactivities.

Consider a hair element test (www.doctorsdata.com or www.gsdl.com, or www.bodybalance.com if you don't want to go through doctor)
Its extremely likely to find usful info on toxic exposures and essential mineral imbalances-

Also, lupus involves metabolic blockages, which are easy to test for, and which give indications of what to do to treat.

consider a fractionated porphyrin(urine) test (most major labs) which determines which enzymatic processes are blocked by
toxic exposures and the degree of blockage and level by the level and pattern of porphyrin waste dumped in urine after blockage.
With lupus, you usually find high Uriporphyrin, which makes one susceptible to sun damage, allergic conditions, metabolic problems,etc. but there may be other blockages indicated also.

(J.S. Woods et al, “Urinary porphyrin profiles as biomarker of mercury exposure: studies on dentists”, J Toxicol Environ Health, 40(2-3):1993, p235-; & “Altered porphyrin metabolites as a biomarker of mercury exposure and toxicity”, Physiol Pharmocol, 1996,74(2):210-15 , the test is not just for mercury, other things also cause blockages and lupus- and the pattern indicates likely cause

Also consider a comprehensive liver detox test from GSDL(www.gsdl.com) or comparable(blood,urine,saliva tests)
major liver problems almost always with chronic conditions like lupus-
with Lupus one almost always finds that the metabolic blockages include blocked sulfur processing, causing high blood cysteine levels
(which results in neurological and other effects) and the heme and ATP Krebs energy process being blocked and not working properly.
This test virtually always finds lots of metabolic blockages and problems, and suggests things to do to help the condition

(331) C.Gordon et al, “Abnormal sulphur oxidation in systemic lupus erythrmatosus(SLE)”, Lancet, 1992,339:8784,25 , & more like this

an immediate family member has had lupus but recovered(she happens to be a doctor-neurologist)
a friend at work has had lupus, did the porphyrin test, etc. and is better (she had high copper and chronic exposure to toxics from a toxic waste site where she lived- Anniston Alabama which has been in the news a bit)
others that I have interacted with similar

I also believe other tests are useful, but won't go into them here for now.

You can contact medical labs that commonly test for such conditions like GSDL who will provide a list of doctors in your area
who know how to test for metabolic blockages, etc. (www.gsdl.com)
or a patients support organization like DAMS (800-311-6262) that have information on tests and clinics that know how to test and treat such conditions- based on interactions with people who've successfully dealt with the conditions.

IAOMT- a medical/dental association with experience at testing for such also gives referals,
I know several clinics that have had good success at dealing with such

[beam me up scottie]

24. So you're willing to take responsibility if someone follows your advice

and compromises their health because they didn't consult a professional?

[philb]

25. You apparently didn't understand what I said. Lupus is documented to be

an autoimmune condition, with the primary causes being mercury and nickel. Of those with lupus who've been tested at one
medical lab, most were immune reactive to mercury or nickel and most had significant health improvement after amalgam replacement.

Prochazkova J, Sterzl I, Kucerova H, Bartova J, Stejskal VD; The beneficial effect of amalgam replacement on health in patients with autoimmunity. Neuro Endocrinol Lett. 2004 Jun;25(3):211-8.
http://www.nel.edu/pdf_/25_3/NEL250304A07_Prochazkova_.pdf

Results of lymphocyte reactivity measured with MELISA indicate that in vitro reactivity after the replacement of dental amalgam decreased significantly to inorganic mercury, silver, organic mercury and lead. All 6 patients with MS showed significant improvement in health.
Out of 15 patients with systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE) 11 (73%) had improvement of health.
Out of 8 patients with autoimmune thyroiditis 6 showed significant improvement in health (75%).
For those whose condition was worse, the autoimmunity measure for nickel was higher at the end of the study- indicating that amalgam replacement did not resolve the source of nickel exposure.


But I also showed that the liver and metabolic processes are affected by mercury exposure, as has been documented by most who've
done the comprehensive liver detox test(www.gsdl.com) at another medical lab or by the fractionated porphyrin test at other medical labs. The point I made is that it has been documented that mercury(from amalgam) is the main cause(not only) of lupus(and MS,etc.) and that it has been documented by doctors and medical labs that most recover after amalgam replacement and/or eliminting
other mercury/nickel sources(nickel is also a common cause of autoimmunity in lupus-see the study above).

But I didn't suggest that people shouldn't see a doctor. To get the tests I suggested you have to go to a doctor.
But I do also suggest that people see a doctor that knows how to test and cure lupus, which can be accomplished by contacting
DAMS or IAOMT or GSDL or etc. who will provide them with a list of doctors who have demonstrated experience at testing and treating such conditions.
Most who I've interacted with with MS or Lupus have recovered- including someone in my family and several of the DAMS coordinators,
along with many who've contacted DAMS.

[beam me up scottie]

28. Still trying to pretend quacks can cure incurable diseases I see.

Too bad you can't cure gullibility, many posters in this forum have a chronic case of it.

Maybe a turbo Zapper would do the trick.

[philb]

30. Nothing I suggest is alternative med, and its documented to work

by peer-reviewd studies and clinical cases monitored by actual doctors and medical tests by actual medical labs.
I've documented 60,000 clinical cases cured and 4000 peer-reviewed medical studies, documenting why and how mercury
causes such conditions.

You are the one playing games, making insupportable claims without any evidence or documentation supporting your positions or any basis for your name calling.
I never make a statement I can't back up with peer-reviewed studies, found in National Library of Medicine, NIH, Medline
and lots of documented clinical cases. Since I interact with a lot of such patients, I know a lot of those personally who've
recovered. This has nothing to do with zappers, and is mainstream medicine. Testing people for known factors that are
documented in the medical literature to cause their conditions, and basing treatment on the test results.
Your name games don't change the fact that the science is clear and that if one does the proper tests, followed by the proper
treatment indicated by the tests, most people with chronic conditions have their health condition significantly improve.

That is a matter of record, and note that some of the most prestegious doctors and researchers and the past Editor of the
Journal of the American Medical Association all agree on aspects of what I posted. You will find some of the most prestegious researchers in the world among those writing the articles I've cited. You haven't found anyone knowledgable enough
to point out any problem with the peer-reviewed documentation I've posted regarding either the documented mechanisms of causality
or the over 60,000 cases documented to have recovered from these conditions.

Since I provide documentation, and you only can resort to name calling, it should be obvious to most on whose side science and
medical legitimacy reside.

As I've noted, someone in my family who is a Board Certified Neurologist is one of those who've recover. As well as myself,
and most DAMS coordinators that I interact with. And many thousands we've interacted with and have contact info, records, etc. on.
I've also posted some of this.

What evidence do you have that anything I've posted on any thread is not accurate or exagerated?? Do you know someone more knowledgable or with better credentials than me who disagrees with me?? And can make a case that something I've said is in error.
No one has made a case so far. I always welcome comments and learn by interactions. But you haven't made any serious comments yet that I'm aware of.

[beam me up scottie]

31. You have NEVER provided evidence that any of these treatments work.

You constantly dump info in here because you think volume is more impressive than substance.

I reiterate, quacks are unethical and dangerous.

I live for the day Hulda Clark is taken into custody and has to face the consequences.

And anyone who supports her is just as unethical and dangerous.

[philb]

34. You are the one diverting attention by talking about Hulda, she has nothi

ng to do with the information I've posted about the known causes of lupus, and treatments that in the majority
of cases result in significant improvement in the condition.

Apparently the problem is that you don't understand the language of medical studies, since I've clearly
posted cites and abstracts of peer-reviewed articles in prestegious journals that document the mechanisms by which
mercury causes lupus, and that people in fact have been documented to recover after mercury detox.


The fact that I've cited 4000 studies that people can check out, doesn't change the fact that I've also posted individual abstracts and cites to articles anyone can find in NLM Medline (www.nlm.nih.gov) that document the mechanisms and the fact that people did
in fact recover after amalgam replacement or mercury/metals detox.

Lets focus a little, since I've clearly posted the documentation, what is it that you find wrong with it. And why haven't you
written a comment to the journal in question pointing out the errors with the articles, or suggesting what it really was that
caused the people to recover from the conditions after they replaced their amalgams. Note that I have a lot of medical labs supporting my positions, and you can find support for my positions on their web sites. Can you find a lab site that has any evidence to the contrary?

[beam me up scottie]

35. You have no credibility.

None.

Zero.

Nada.

Zilch.


You have the polar opposite of credibility when it comes to health issues.

I compare your beliefs to those of people who believe in Big Foot, UFOs, chemtrails, orgonite and leprechauns, even thought they may have more evidence than you do.

Anybody who supports a woman who thinks parasites cause cancer and AIDS, and that she can cure them with small electrical shocks to the skin, delivered conveniently by an invention she markets, doesn't deserve my respect or tolerance.

[Warpy]

40. The only truth to your statement is that it's an autoimmune condition

The rest of your post is incorrect and irresponsible.

I hope you are well insured.

[BuddhaGirl]

26. oh brother LOL

no where in the post did it say "don't consult a professional." :eyes:

The poster was just providing some alternatives that look quite interesting, actually.

[beam me up scottie]

29. I know all about his "alternative" cures for cancer, AIDS & other diseases

Lying to people about life threatening diseases is criminal.

Look it up.

[philb]

32. Does that mean you should be prosecuted? What are you suggesting?

I don't suggest anything not backed up by medical study documentation. I've served on federal and state advisory commitees and am listed in Who's Who in America.
It seems you are the one who has trouble finding documentation to support your claims.
And have to resort to name calling.

I've never heard it suggested before that researchers should avoid quoting peer-reviewed studies.
Or that peer-reviewed studies that have not been contradicted by evidence shouldn't be taken into account by doctors
in knowing what tests and treatments to look into.

I think you've been reading too many bogus web sites, rather than using Medline and more credible sites such as prestegious doctors like that of Dr. Garth Nicholson, Dr. Perlmutter, Dr. Blaylock, and others I've cited as your information sources.

[beam me up scottie]

33. Funny, I thought you were an engineer.

I think I'll stick to the opinions of real doctors and other medical professionals, like the ones who post in this forum, for example.

Thanks anyway.

Tell Hulda I said hi.

[BuddhaGirl]

36. umm...merely your opinion

you obviously don't believe in alternative therapies, which is your RIGHT.

I use alternative therapies, which work for me, which is my RIGHT.

Why can't you just agree to disagree with those who believe in alternative therapies? It would be more than adult than childish name-calling, wouldn't it? :-)

[beam me up scottie]

37. First of all, not ALL alternative treatments are the same.

Many of them have been clinically found to be safe and effective.

I have a problem with frauds, liars and pseudo scientists who market faux treatments as cures for disease.

They lie to consumers because of greed and prey on desperate patients.

The industry is largely unregulated and that means people aren't getting accurate information about alternative medicine.

Quacks depend on fear to sell their products, so much so that many parents are now refusing to have their children vaccinated because they think vaccines cause autism.

A mother who refused to believe that AIDS is a virus gave birth to two children without taking the drugs that could have prevented them from being born with the disease, and if that's not bad enough, she let her son die from lack of treatment.

Her source?

A quack who still makes the same claims, LEGALLY.

And her other child may also die because the mother refuses to seek science-based medical advice.


People are dying because of these vultures.

That is why so many skeptics fight misinformation.

We don't have anything against alternative medicine, just the quacks who lie and steal from people.

[philb]

38. Actually, you have it backwards. The clinics cited are very pretegious

and successful, have long waiting lists. I'm not aware of any of your alternative clinics that you haven't bothered
to list here that have better records. These clinics successful treatments are documented by peer-reviewed medical studies in
peer-reviewed journals, plus many years and thousands of cases of successful treatments. I've posted the documentation.
Which clinic or which peer-reviewed study are you questioning?? Be specific, and give your reasons.

I don't think you can find credible documentation contrary to any of the articles or clinic and medical lab documentation that
has been provided. If so, be specific.

Do you think that name calling is a credible alternative to scientific documentation? That seems to be all you do every post,
no science provided or discussed. The case you brought up has nothing to do with the issue being discussed here.
So far it seems to me its 1000 to 0, regarding the science. I've cited my science support and clincial support.
I'm still waiting for a credible rebuttal.

[beam me up scottie]

39. You have no credibility.

You believe AIDS and cancer are caused by parasites and you can cure them by using a Zapper.

The fact that you think I would value your opinion is laughable.

[philb]

41. I'm listed in Who's Who in America, are you

And my papers have been used in Medical School courses in more than one coutry; what about you
I have served on many federal and state scientific advisory committees, received the award from my
graduate school faculty as best applied researcher, graduated Summa Cum Laude, etc.
My papers have been reviewed by experts and people of other opinions. I haven't found anyone who has suggested
major problems with them, including you, and could post favorable reviews by experts.

But lets stick to the science, I haven't tried to convince anyone based on authority.
I've posted links to thousands of peer-reviewed medical studies, and lots of Gov't agency support,
and thousands of cases of documented reovery from over 30 chronic conditions after amalgam replacement.
If you disagree, explain why and provide a little science supporting your opinion.

This thread has nothing to do with zappers, and doctors with extremely credible credentials(top of their field) have found that
patients with chronic degenerative condtions almost always have biological invaders such as viruses, mycoplasma, parasites that must be treated to deal with their conditions. I've posted that documentation before.

but I've posted documentation from credible Univ. researchers that zappers kill cancer cells
and are effective against HIV/AIDS in a large study by credible researchers, followed by medical establishment.

do you disagree with the Univ. study findings about zappers?? on what basis?? have you reviewed the research.
Zappers aren't new, and the science is pretty straight forward. Its easily demonstrated that zappers can kill bacteria, viruses,
etc. Plus bigger things if desired.

By the way, since you want to discuss credibility, what is your expertise that would suggest people should pay attention
to your oppinion?, since you don't bother to provide any science to back up your statements. Just suggest people should accept your opinion without basis. Lets stick to the science.

[beam me up scottie]

42. You claim Zappers cure cancer and AIDs.

And you want to stick to science?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:



edited to add :rofl:

[philb]

43. I provided peer-reviewed documentation; thats science

but as I noted, that has nothing to do with this thread.

You are playing silly games. Not discussing science. If you disagree with the study that demonstrated that
zapping is effective against HIV/AIDS which I posted documentation on, and which is being published in a peer-reviewed
journal, provide us some rational for what you think was wrong with the large study by Australian researchers in Africa.
And likewise what you think was wrong with the Univ. of Washington study that showed zapper effective at killing cancer cells.

And the large amounts of clinical cases that have found Hulda's methods effective for many types of chronic conditions.
She is one of the most highly respected and in demand as a speaker/seminar instructor in the world. People come from far and wide to hear her, due to her demonstrated successes.

I've read her books, and her methods are consistent with standard medical practice. She says that patients should be tested to find out the underlying causes of their conditions. She's invented/adapted test equipment for testing toxic exposures, etc.
She says she finds that toxic exposures and biological agents(bacteria,viruses,mycoplasma,parasites) are the main causes of chronic conditions; and when you get rid of these the health of the patient improves; which is consistent with the findings
of research, and most credible doctors treating such conditions- as is documented in the medical literature.
And as documented by my review papers that I've cited.
Such as http://www.home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/amalg6.html
etc.
Apparently you haven't read her books; do you disagree with any of the above I've just summarized?
I thought all doctors agreed with all of this.
If not, what?

[beam me up scottie]

44. Parasites don't cause AIDS and cancer. Zappers don't cure AIDs and cancer.

Your beliefs are uneducated, naive and ridiculous.

Let me know when they haul your buddy the criminal before the judge.

I want pictures.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

27. Visit the LupusLady's site. n/t