Spychipped Levis Are Here -->

[Dr. Jones]

Ah hell, Levis are too expensive anyway.

It may be time to ditch your Dockers and lay off the Levi's, say privacy activists Katherine Albrecht and Liz McIntyre. New information confirms that Levi Strauss & Co. is violating a call for a moratorium on item-level RFID by spychipping its clothing. What's more, the company is refusing to disclose the location of its U.S. test.

Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) is a controversial technology that uses tiny microchips to track items from a distance. These RFID microchips have earned the nickname "spychips" because each contains a unique identification number, like a Social Security number for things, that can be read silently and invisibly by radio waves. Over 40 of the world's leading privacy and civil liberties organizations have called for a moratorium on chipping individual consumer items because the technology can be used to track people without their knowledge or consent.

Jeffrey Beckman, Director of Worldwide and U.S. Communications for Levi Strauss, confirmed his company's chipping program in an email exhange with McIntyre, saying "a retail customer is testing RFID at one location ...on a few of our larger-volume core men's Levi's jeans styles." However, he refused to name the location.

"Out of respect for our customer's wishes, we are not going to discuss any specifics about their test," he said. Beckman also confirmed the company is tagging Levi Strauss clothing products, including Dockers brand pants, at two of its franchise locations in Mexico. "Once clothing manufacturers begin applying RFID to hang tags, the floodgates will open and we'll soon find these things sewn into the hem of our jeans," Albrecht adds. "The problem with RFID is that it is tracking technology, plain and simple."

Source: http://www.newswithviews.com/McIntyre/Liz4.htm

[mdmc]

1. why do they want to know where i'm sitting?

I like the levi's brand...

[AndyA]

2. And what is the point of doing this? To prevent forgeries?

Seems they could place the chips on tags that could be removed once the item was purchased by a consumer, if that were the intent. Why would Levi's want to be able to track its products? What legitimate reason could there be?

I will boycott all of their products until they cease and desist!

[MADem]

9. So you can walk into a store, wearing your brother's borrowed jeans

...and some salesclerk can try to sell you the shit your brother likes!

[Dr. Jones]

11. It's all about marketing and total information awareness.

Imagine the wealth of information companies could gather on each individual person and their purchasing/lifestyle habits. Never before have they had such a powerful marketing device. RFID tags could show what the person's purchasing/lifestyle habits are IN REAL TIME.

Scary crap...violation of privacy, which in turn is a violation of our Constitutional rights!

The thing that scares me is that Levis apparently REFUSED to disclose the location of this test run. So in the next few months, perhaps we'll hear of some kid in Idaho that was being tracked for 3 months by the company. I would SUE THEIR ASSES OFF if I found this out!

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

13. RFID

was originally inteneded to help companies keep track of inventory while in the plant. In another life I was a Materials/Inventory Manager. Having RFID prevents missing inventory, leads to reliable physical inventories and allows management to know EXACTLY how much money is tied up in inventory.
Not sure how it is disabled once it leaves inventory. In theory, once the item leaves stock you don't track it for inventory purposes. In some applications you are required to know what goes where (for recall/health etc) purposes but for Levi's? I'd assume when the clerk runs the pants across the scanner it would disable the chip. But that is speculation on my part.

[Tesha]

32. Put your pants in the microwave for ten seconds.

You want to be sure that chip is disabled? Put your pants in the
microwave for ten seconds on "high". (And probably include a
glass of water in the microwave to ensure the oven's safety
and long life.)

(Hint: Remove butt from jeans first!)

I'd be surprised if the check-out scanner disabled the kind
of simple RFIDs we're probably talking about here. I'd also
be surprised to find that they can be scanned more than a
very few inches away.

Tesha

[northzax]

27. funny, that's exactly what they are doing...

While Levi Strauss reports that its current RFID trials use external RFID "hang tags" that can be clipped from the clothes and the focus is on inventory management, not customer tracking, the company isn't guaranteeing how it will use RFID in the future.

feel better?

[acmavm]

3. What the f**k do they need these devices for anyway? This is

WRONG on so damn many levels. No doubt these people are big phone tapping fans.

[LiberalPartisan]

19. Inventory management

Quite soon you will be able to go to a supermarket, load up your cart, and walk out without passing through a check out counter. All the items in your cart will be tallied using the RFID chips and your bank account will be charged accordingly. In the background those items will be added to the daily restocking order. Stores will be able to reduce the amount of inventory on hand, i.e. money on the sheves, and pass the savings on to the consumer.

Assumedly check out counters will still exist but the scenario I describe is the ultimate goal of all retailers.

[CrispyQ]

20. People are the ultimate inventory they want to manage. --nt

[acmavm]

23. Sure, that's how I want to pay for the things I want to by. And one

of the things I'm not buying is this excuse.

[SmokingJacket]

29. "Pass the savings on to customers"...

Or to their CEO's benefits package.

[lectrobyte]

37. Can't they do that already with the bar codes already on products?

[LiberalPartisan]

40. Not without manually scanning

RFIDs are meant to alleviate the need for manual scanning.

[SoCalDem]

41. And soon there will be fewer employees..less overhead

I guess the ultimate goal for "biddness" is to hire no one, yet sell everything to everyone..the fly in the ointment? Where will the money come from if people have no jobs?

[rpgamerd00d]

4. Just toss them into a microwave for a few seconds, fry the chip

Ta da!

[_testify_]

8. GMTA

but won't the metal rivets & zippers cause havoc in the microwave?

[Coyote_Bandit]

10. Nice idea - but you forgot about the rivets n/t

[rpgamerd00d]

15. Not if you only do it a few seconds, which is enough to fry the chip

[Tesha]

33. The rivets are too small to matter much. The zipper would be...

The rivets are too small to matter much. The zipper would be
more interesting; it might arc from tooth to tooth.

In any case, keep the time short!

Tesha

[_testify_]

5. I imagine these chips are rather delicate

There must be easy ways for a consumer to purposefully render it inoperable after purchase.

[rpgamerd00d]

7. see above :)

[Richard Steele]

16. Yes, but even FINDING the chip is a problem now.

RFID tags that looked like THIS a few years ago...



...Can look like THIS today:
:http://collabor.f4.fhtw-berlin.de:8080/static/images/rfid/minichip.jpg

How are you even gonna FIND that to disable it?

(And I wouldn't recommend tossing pants into the microwave;
zippers and copper rivets, you know...)

[Tesha]

34. Those little chips aren't magic, though.

Generally, the smaller the chip, the shorter the range.
And some of those chip-scale devices must still be mounted
on larger antennas to gain any significant range.

Tesha

[alphafemale]

6. Wouldn't the first run through the washer kill it? nt

[Tesha]

35. Not necessarily. RFIDs can be "glass passivated". (NT)

[DainBramaged]

12. Out of respect for our customer's wishes

Like these scumbags asked their permission anyway. When they made the deal with the devil Wal-Mart, was the day I stopped buying Levis.

[Gold Metal Flake]

14. I've had good luck with the High Sierra brand jeans.

They are every bit as rugged, and I say that as one who wears his old jeans to work on cars and scrounge in junkyards. They cost less, too.

AFAIK, they have no chips in them.

[xchrom]

17. guess i should learn how to sew.

[Betsy Ross]

24. Maybe I could make a living teaching sewing!

It is time for a revival of home sewing.

[xchrom]

42. i'll sign up!

i can let out my inner haute couture designer -- and express whole new levels of gayness -- thereby pissing off corporations and jerry falwell with one stone -- or thimble or bobbin or something.

[havocmom]

25. Good luck with that. Getting harder to find fabric anymore

Aside from some quilting, Americans don't do much sewing. Since most mills & factories for clothing are overseas, guess where the fabric is? Getting pretty frustrating for us relics who do sew to find decent material. Choices severly limited.

[xchrom]

43. oh i'm in the bay area -- we have

fabric stores out the wazoo -- what would all the queens do for haloween and new years if we didn't have them?

[havocmom]

44. LOL Great, I'll send a list!

I hate to shop anyway :D

[xchrom]

46. i heart shopping.

[havocmom]

47. I enjoy hardware and home stores

Beyond that, have to be in the mood and the mood doesn't hit often.

[xchrom]

49. gasp -- home stores

anything to do with interior design sets my pants right on fire!

like that wasn't hard to guess.

[havocmom]

50. Pal, you pick a color and I'll wield the paint brush!

And if the car needs an oil change or new water pump, I am your girl!

[xchrom]

52. do you need a wife?!?!

i think i'm in love!

if you can change oil -- which i can't -- and you can paint{which i can} -- i do windows, love to iron and i am mean in the kitchen.

this would set jerry falwell's hair on fire in perpetuity!


:loveya: :pals:

[havocmom]

53. No, I am pretty fond of my husband

Straight but not narrow... that's me.

My nephew, catching me sitting on the fender of an old Olds Delta 88 helping a friend pull a radiator, remarked that he didn't know I was so butch. Then he asked what I was cooking for dinner. :D Gads, I miss that twerp.

[xchrom]

54. ...

:rofl:

i knew you were married --

and she can cook!

i'm not telling a single person about you -- you set the standards too high!

i'll never get a husband.

[madokie]

18. wore 501's all my life, but when the ones I have now wear out I won't

replace them. The reason was they're not made in the USA anymore, now I have another good reason. I think if you put them in a microwave it will make the rfid chip explode though. Not sure about what would happen with the metal buttons. So I'll just play it safe and not buy any. But if levi's is doing it I wonder who else is. My wife just bought me some new shorts I have to check if any don't have any metal, forget that zippers, oh well

[sendero]

21. I don't think..

... it would be too hard to build a device to detect these tags. I think I'll start a business.

Bring your items in, I'll scan them for RFID tags and excise them if found. $5 per item. :)

[Norquist Nemesis]

22. If they really wanted to test it, they should send a RFID pair to OBL

*wink*

[DELUSIONAL]

26. Thanks for the laugh!!! Laughter is sorely needed in this world!

[sendero]

28. This topic comes up from time to time..

... and while I agree there could be insidious uses of this technology keep these simple FACTS in mind:

1) The RFID "chip" device is PASSIVE. It does not TRANSMIT anything.

2) It identifies itself when a "scanner" radiates RF energy onto it and it essentially "reflects" a "number". Much like Radar or Sonar.

3) Therefore, it cannot be used to "track" you like a LoJack, it cannot be used to "locate" you unless you walk within several feet of a "scanner" tied to the right database.

While the typical technical misinformation hasn't yet cropped up in this thread, I know it will so I'm just informing preemptively :)

[Tesha]

36. Just a nit...

> 1) The RFID "chip" device is PASSIVE. It does not TRANSMIT anything.
>
> 2) It identifies itself when a "scanner" radiates RF energy onto it
> and it essentially "reflects" a "number". Much like Radar or Sonar.

"Reflection" is a good analogy, but the RFID does transmit while
in the presence of the "interrogating" radio signal.

But your absolutely correct in stating that it is dormant (non-
transmitting) while away from an appropriate scanner.

Tesha

[sendero]

38. My point is that..

... the "power" it used to "transmit" comes from the scanner. It has no power source, hence it has no capability whatsoever to do anything over a long distance.

[Tesha]

39. Ever look at an "EZPass"?

I hate to go down this rathole, but even your point
about "no pwer source" isn't true for all RFIDs.

For example, "EZPass" ("Fast Lane", etc.) transponders
are, technically, RFID devices, but they are self-powered.
But you're correct, most RFIDs are powered by the scanner's
probe signal.

Tesha

[sendero]

45. Ok...

... I'll admit I'm not familiar with every device. My point is simply that the idea of "tracking" someone with current RFID technology is nonsense.

And to take that further, there is no current technology or even physically imagined method (within our current knowledge of physics) to have a power source of any magnitude without using lots of space and weight, not to mention expense. Hardly something that is going to be hidden in garments. :)

I just want to head off the alarmist talk about secret LoJacks in everything you buy. Maybe someday, but not in the foreseeable future.

[davsand]

30. "Hang Tags" are what you take off after you buy them.

Unless you are Minnie Pearl, I guess...

I'd think that a trip to the laundry, a trip to the microwave or even a magnet would probably disable any chips that somebody tried to hide in clothing if you are really worried about it. If all else fails, I guess you could wear them for an MRI or something. (Seems kind of expensive, but whatever floats your boat, I guess.)

Levis are the one brand of jeans that always seem to fit me and be comfortable. I hate paying for the name, but I am willing to pay for jeans that fit. I'll probably keep on buying them until I find some brand that fits me as well.


Laura

[noonwitch]

31. They should put the chips on the price ticket

That way, the market research gets done-they can see who buys what with what, but the customer can cut it off when he gets home.

[geniph]

48. "Sewn into the hems"?

Those of us who are too short to wear unaltered pants are happy with that location...the RFIDs will end up in the wastebasket next to my sewing machine where they belong!

[derby378]

51. Or - you COULD buy union-made jeans like I do

Check these guys out:

http://www.unionjeancompany.com/denim.php?Session_ID=