Man, I hope they run the Mormon Mitt Romney.

[King Coal]

It would be fun to see the farce of Joseph Smith exposed for what it is.

[cali]

1. Joseph Smith: The worst thing ever to come out

of my state of Vermont. And how can you take seriously a religion that names an angel 'Moroni'?

[H2O Man]

4. He lived in

Bettseburg in Chenango County, NY, for a period. Today people refer to it as part of Afton, though at the time it was a distinct hamlet. Last year, some of the legal records concerning his business dealings were pulled out of the basement of the county jail in Norwich.

[cali]

9. How interesting.

Were any of the legal records published?

[H2O Man]

12. I believe so,

though I do not have a link. I believe that he was involved in the glass-cutting business, and was known as a dishonest businessman. if memory serves me correctly, the records had to do with people filing claims against him. In those days, there were not village/town courts, and so everything was filed in the county court.

[H2O Man]

13. Part Two:

I have a few books that shed some light on Smith in Afton. One is The History of Chenango County: 1784- 1880, by James Smith. "Smith's History," as it is known, was based on extensive research that included all the documents, books, and oral histories available in the late 1800s. He gets a lot of information on Joseph Smith, Jr. from Afton Dr. W. D. Purple's 1877 book on the history of Afton.

Smith's father was a local ditch-digger, who also sold the cakes and beer his family made. The son actually was in front of the local Justice of the Peace by 1826, and spoke about seeing "things" that others couldn't see, when he looked into a magic glass. For a period of years, he was sure there was a "magic stone" hidden near-by. He spent time digging for it, and convinced others -- mainly his family -- that he was close to finding money, treasure, etc. He kept folks in "a feverish state of excitement and expectancy" while digging. The records show that Smith used "invocations, the blood of sheep slaughtered for the purpose, sprinkled upon the earth, and other mystical rites" to find that hidden treasure. But an "angry demon" kept on tricking them.

Eventually, he moved to the western part of the state, and fooled more people.

[King Coal]

5. I guess they interpret it as "Morani". nt

[EST]

2. What farce do you think will be exposed?

[King Coal]

3. The ridiculous whoopers he told.

"The LDS church holds that Joseph Smith, directed by the angel Moroni, unearthed a book of golden plates buried in a hillside in Western New York in 1827. The plates were inscribed in “reformed” Egyptian hieroglyphics—a nonexistent version of the ancient language that had yet to be decoded. If you don’t know the story, it’s worth spending some time with Fawn Brodie’s wonderful biography No Man Knows My History. Smith was able to dictate his “translation” of the Book of Mormon first by looking through diamond-encrusted decoder glasses and then by burying his face in a hat with a brown rock at the bottom of it. He was an obvious con man. Romney has every right to believe in con men, but I want to know if he does, and if so, I don’t want him running the country."
http://www.thismodernworld.com/

[Mz Pip]

11. I have to question

the wisdom of a God who would give his new material written in some unknown language to a guy who manages to lose it. :crazy:

Under the Banner of Heaven is a facinating book about Mormonism.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Dirty Hippie]

6. Hate to tell ya'

but all religion is a farce.

[KittyWampus]

22. bigoted statement

[nealmhughes]

7. His garments will protect Ole' Mitt. That is what they call their sacred drawers.

"Garments." "Garmies" for an affectionate diminutive.... Maybe he can appear in full Temple regalia -- all white like Liberace sans sequins and a chef's toque and an "apron" made of fake leaves.

L. Ron Hubbard and Joseph Smith... Thetans and Xenu, spaceships and glorified bodies, Urim and Thummin and Kolob. "You say either...I say either, let's call the whole thing off."

[MannyGoldstein]

8. No, You Don't

Willard is very, very dangerous - he's as evil as Bush but 20 times smarter. If he happened to get elected, we'd be in deep shit.

And why is the LDS church any wackier than any other?

[yy4me]

10. Run him where?

Off a cliff? Over by a car? Out of town? Any of these choices will do, just get him the heck out of the political arena. He is a well groomed disaster.

[Beelzebud]

14. Majority Leader Reid is a mormon too...

Not to say that I like Reid. I think he absolutely stinks as our leader.

[undeterred]

15. That sounds like a good strategy: attacking candidates for their religious upbringing

That's completely consistent with a progressive vision, and I'm sure it won't backfire or anything. :sarcasm:

[King Coal]

17. Sorry, but Mormonism is not a religion, and it's anti-American.

Joseph Smith conned people into paying him for telling them where treasure was hidden. His father-in-law wrote that he wouldn't let Smith marrying his daughter because he didn't approve of his line of work. So, he eloped with her and then came back to tell Hale that he had come up with a new line of work.

Joseph Smith's father-in-law, Isaac Hale, noticed a definite relationship between the method Joseph Smith used to translate the Book of Mormon and the way he searched for buried treasures. In an affidavit, published in 1834, Hale wrote:

"I first became acquainted with Joseph Smith, Jr. in November, 1825. He was at that time in the employ of a set of men who were called 'money diggers;' and his occupation was that of seeing, or pretending to see by means of a stone placed in his hat, and his hat closed over his face. In this way he pretended to discover minerals and hidden treasure.... young Smith... asked my consent to his marrying my daughter Emma. This I refused, and gave him my reasons for so doing; some of which were, that he was a stranger, and followed a business that I could not approve;... while I was absent from home carried off my daughter,... they were married... In a short time they returned,...

"Smith stated to me that he had given up what he called 'glass looking,' and that he expected to work hard for a living,... He also made arrangements with my son,... to go up to Palmyra,... after this, I was informed they had brought a wonderful book of plates down with them.... The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret, was the same as when he looked for the 'money diggers,' with the stone in his hat, and his hat over his face, while the book of plates was at the same time hid in the woods.' " (New York Baptist Register, June 13, 1834)

Another thing that is hilarious to me is the fact that Mormon ritual was so obviously copied from Masonry. And poor old Emma did most of the writing of the Book of Mormon while Joe kept his face in a hat and dictated it to her. She was very reluctant to join the quackery, and was really pissed when the Lord or Moroni or the glass told Joe that he should get some young girls for extra wifes.

[undeterred]

19. Don't even get me started, bigot.

Who made you the self-appointed judge of what is a religion and what is not? There are 20 Mormons in Congress, and none of them have every promoted the Mormon religion (as some fundamentalist Christians have). I campaigned for a (Democratic) Mormon candidate for 8 months this year, and he would have made a wonderful Congressman.

I find your attack on the content of this particular religion to be wildly inappropriate.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[novalib]

29. "I AM NOT A BIGOT!!!!"

"I am not a bigot".

That's what ALL BIGOTS say.

[novalib]

16. Gee, I Wonder If You'd Feel The Same Way If Someone Were To Say This......

I wonder if you'd feel the same way if someone were to say something like,

"Man I hope they run the Muslim Joe Blow. It'd be fun to see the farce of Mohammed exposed for what it is".

I BET YOU MIGHT THINK SOMEONE WRITING SUCH A THING MIGHT BE A BIT OF A BIGOT.

[King Coal]

18. How much are you willing to bet?

Put your money where your caps are.

[novalib]

21. I'D BET THIS MUCH!!!!

I'd bet all my loose change!!!!

Because EVEN IF I were to lose, THE CHANGE WOULD DO A BIGOT GOOD!

[undeterred]

20. Or, gee Catholics are idiots

because they believe the Pope is infallible and represents Christ on earth.

[novalib]

23. YOU MEAN LIKE THEY DID WITH JFK IN 1960???

"Gee," some said, "I sure hope they run CATHOLIC JOHN KENNEDY," some said in 1960.

"It would be fun to expose the way Catholics a LOYAL to the POPE instead of the United States".

People like that were called BIGOTS back then.

What would YOU call people who thought that way now????!!!!!

[King Coal]

25. I would call them anti-American.

Do you know anything about the history of the Mormons? Or does that not matter to you? To me, it matters.

[novalib]

26. EXCUSE ME!!!!

Excuse ME, but I believe it was YOU that wanted to LINK a person's RELIGION to his qualications for PUBLIC OFFICE!!!!!!

That is indeed UNAMERICAN and it is EXACTLY what the BIGOTS in the late 1950's tried to do with JFK!!

It is also EXACTLY what the FUNDY BIGOTS of the 2000's are TRYING to do NOW!!!!

So EXCUSE ME if I don't happen to agree with your premise of this thread -- that it would be a "good idea" to have Romney run for office so that the farce of Mormonism can be exposed.

It seems to me that if YOU or anyone else wants to "expose" the "farce" of Mormonism -- or any other religion, for that matter -- you might want to do it in a RELIGION thread.

BUT I HAPPEN TOI THINK THAT LINKING RELIGION AND POLITICS -- ESPECIALLY WHEN ONE SAYS THAT ANOTHER PERSON'S RELIGION IS A "FARCE" -- IS NOT ONLY BIGOTED.

IT's FUCKING DANGEROUS!!!!

[King Coal]

27. Well, don't to to Salt Lake then.

The difference between the church and state there is about 2 blocks. That's anti-American. Oh, and they never hire based on religion there either. :sarcasm:

[novalib]

28. So YOUR BIGOTRY Is Somehow Justified

Let me get this straight:

YOUR comments here about how it would be great if they were to run "Mormon Romney" because it would be fun to watch the "farce" of Mormonism be exposed as somehow justified because of what happens in Salt Lake City????!!!!!

You make about as much sense as someone saying, "If you don't like my BIGOTED comments about Catholics, then don't ever go to the Vatican".

BIGOTED comments are STILL BIGOTED!!!

[King Coal]

30. I don't think it is bigoted to expose a con man for what he is.

I wish someone would make a movie about it, to tell you the truth. If the truth were to come out, many Mormoms would leave the church. And leaving that church is hard, buts lots of people do it every day. Please get yourself informed. I'll help you if you would like.

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

31. I'm going to lock this

With regard to religion (or the lack thereof), Democratic Underground is a diverse community which includes Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, Atheists, Agnostics, and others. All are welcome here. For this reason, we expect members to make an extra effort to be sensitive to different religious beliefs, and to show respect to members who hold different religious beliefs. Members are welcome to discuss whether they agree or disagree with particular religious beliefs, but they are expected to do so in a relatively sensitive and respectful manner. As a general rule, discussions about ideas are usually permitted, but broad-brush bigoted statements about groups of people — either religious or non-religious — are not.

best,
wakemeupwhenitsover
DU Moderator