ok, tell me WHY Bush would attack Iran

[LSK]

And please don't tell me hes insane. What does he stand to gain?

- He knows that Iran is no nuclear threat

- We dont have the military forces to invade and / or occupy Iran so companies like Halliburtan and KBR will not have any more profits than they already enjoy now in Iraq

- He risks threatening major problems with China, a country that we have enourmous trade with and that also finances a large part of our debt. An interruption with our current economic relations with China has serious consequences to our economy

- He knows a war with Iran would shut down the Persian gulf and his UAE friends would not like that very much. Iran could wreak havoc with all shipping in the Gulf and possibly destroy our Navy that is deployed there

[illinoisprogressive]

1. Because Cheney and the neocons have him believing he must.

They surround Bush and have him totally believing he must for Americas future and to save Israel. And for his legacy to be as the one with foresight and boldness to do what others couldn't see.

[BuyingThyme]

12. I think you're right, except

Bush doesn't care about America's future. He works for/with a small group of people who have no allegiance to countries except to the extent that they can use those countries as means to their ends.

[babylonsister]

2. I think if it ever happens, it's because Israel feels threatened, and

the US are their (just about only) buddies. And that's all I will say on that!

[lvx35]

3. I have a theory

that 99% of what Bush says about the "terrorists" actually applies to him...In this case, the main effect of an attack on Iran would in fact be psychological. Bush would send the message to the entire world that he does what he wants when he wants. He thinks he would establish that the USA follows no international law, and it should be feared when one sits down to negotiate with it...AKA gaining respect through inspiring fear: terrorism.

[illinoisprogressive]

4. It a good point and I think part of what his policy is about

[LSK]

7. does America really offer much to the world anymore??

How close is the rest of the world to saying to us that we don't need you anymore.

A shutdown war zone Persian gulf cripples our oil thirsty economy.

China can demand payment on all the money it is loaning us to finance our debt and our dollar would be worthless.

[lvx35]

38. Its true.

If America weren't around, there would be a lot less global warming and oil consumption, to name a few things. Its really a precarious spot, and no faith based trust in our military to save us will if the shit hits the fan. Our military's effectiveness has been hopelessly undermined by greedy contracters, and only now with the Iraq war are people starting to realize that "the world's most expensive military" in no way implies "the world's best military".

[Viva_La_Revolution]

5. greed, power...

and he's freakin insane.


:P

[oblivious]

6. Why to bring freedom to the repressed Iranian people of course. And spread democracy in the ME.

At least to the people in the western provinces. The kind of freedom Iraqis now have, haven given their oil resources to western companies.

[uppityperson]

8. To feed the war machine but I really wonder why also

I do not understand what the heck he hopes to get out of it, except to declare himself Supreme Ruler, IF the people don't rise up (ruler and people here). I think his arrogance is topped only by his inability to understand that perhaps just because he wants something to be someway, it isn't. I think they just want what oil there is and to keep sending money through the war machine to make more and more and more. It doesn't make sense to me, but a lot of what they do doesn't so I am not the best judge of why.

[originalpckelly]

9. Why are the neo-cons advocating invading Iran?

[LSK]

16. are they? it seems a lot of them are jumping ship

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/19/magazine/neo.html?ex=1298005200&en=4126fa38fefd80de&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

[Rosemary2205]

10. Carlyle group requires world instability

Carlyle group's investors are billionaires from all over the world and use instability to grow both in power and money. The world elite have been using seeming insanity for millenia.

[illinoisprogressive]

15. PC kelly, the neocons are obsessed with Israel

Most of the neocons are jewish. I believe this is why they obsessed about finding the ultimate power for this country and to destroy the other countries around it. They don't want diplomacy but, to put the boot down to them and have them relinquish all to Israel.
I understand having ties to a country of your family. My mom is from France. But, I do not wish for it to go to war with other countries to be supreme.
I think the neocons want a pact with America and israel. To be one. And for America to establish base in the middle east to be there with israel to not only protect but, to reign.
I'm not totally sure about this but, I think the lukude party in Israel is some how tied to the neocons somehow.

[Bluestar]

11. According to Pat Buchanan (and I don't often listen to him, but)

he said that Cheney and Bush are convinced that they have to knock out the nuclear threat of Iran so they can be remembered for this, instead of the Iraq War. It makes as much sense to me as anything else they have done. Let's face it, we are under the influence of two madmen.

[bluewave]

13. Pat Buchanan is one of the few reasonable righties. Tell Stenny we can

send him back to the minority if he allows Bushco another war.

[puerco-bellies]

14. The answer is contained in three words.

Military Industrial Complex. Billions and billions of dollars funneled through the few hands that have a controlling interest in those companies. An example would be say.. The Carlyle Group, and now with the lions share of Iraqi infrastructure contracts Haliburton can be considered a member of that sector. Let's see.. does the Bush family have significant interest in any companies related to the M.I.C.? Does Cheney have and financial interest in any of those entities? Hmmm.. a real brain teaser.

[illinoisprogressive]

17. I agree with you on the MIC and with what Buchanan said

I heard that tonight as well. I do think this is what they use to push Bush into going along with them and to hold onto the war.
I also know this has ties with the MIC for Cheney in particular.
But, the neocons have been pushing the policy since day one.

[LSK]

18. yes, but he can do that just by staying in Iraq

Also see this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=3072437&mesg_id=3072711

[Karenina]

40. The "threat" is the same one Saddam posed

when he converted to Euros in 2002. Iran is poised to sell OIL in Euros. Therefor it is necessary to destroy their infrastructure as a preventative measure. The "nucular" ambitions distraction is just a cover for what is an ECONOMIC WAR.

[uppityperson]

25. exactly, feed money to those that make money off the war machine.

total evil people they are. Well, they might treat a cat nicely, but it doesn't outweigh all the other evil they do.

[ConsAreLiars]

19. The PNACers laid their reasons out quite clearly.

They played RISK in college and learned that the path to world hegemony was through military domination of the oil resources of the Middle East and military encirclement of Russia and China. Apart from fact that Iraq as the first step hasn't quite yet worked out, they are going on to step two, since killing Iranians, according to that game, will give them bonus points to use in Iraq, and then onto world domination.

Yes, they are not just insane, they are far worse than that.

[illinoisprogressive]

21. I didn't know about the risk thing. I wondered where the stupid idea came from

[ConsAreLiars]

24. See Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_(game)

More bullets and resources --> more victories --> Big Win, to put it briefly. The game had every player starting even. These ideologues assumed that starting the game with half the world's resources meant that every battle would be an easy win. Of course, being born and raised among the elite, they never had the chance to test that view in practice, until now. Not working to well, but they haven't been hurt.

[Fire Walk With Me]

20. I can name that tune in two words: "Seller's Market".

Or, "Iran Oil".

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=iran+oil

Considering that it appears that the Arabs, UAE, and others are together with BushCo in the oddly proclaimed "New World Order", they would help to complete and maintain any monopoly.

[Hippo_Tron]

22. He can't get away with invading Iran even if he lies about it

It took us a long time to enter World War II because we were distrustful of what the government told us because of the propaganda we were fed during World War I. The lies of Iraq are still fresh in the public mind and I honestly don't see how they will support invading Iran.

[illinoisprogressive]

23. has nothing to do with the people's support. they are past caring

[Hippo_Tron]

26. Nope, the American people only have so much tolernace for soldiers coming home in body bags

And frankly that tolerance has run out (hence the 12% support for Bush Iraq troop surge). If it's just air strikes then maybe he could get away with it, but he won't be able to commit ground troops.

[chefgirl]

27. How it looks to me

From listening to certain people, who's opinions I generally value, Scott Ritter as one example, its because Iran is actively engaged in calling the shots in Iraq.

I also read a blog entry by Riverbend a while back that has always stayed with me, because it rang so true. She said, as much as a year ago or more, that what this 'insurgent violence' is all about is the long term hatred between Iraq and Iran, and that Iran has been looking for their chance to exact revenge for the Iran/Iraq war in the 1980's and exert control in Iraq.

Since the idiot in chief handed them the perfect opportunity, on a silver platter, they took it and ran with it. The WH is, and always was, well aware that when they took Saddam out, Iran would jump on it, but doesnt dare admit that to the American people.

Of course, there is always the question of the oil flowing to the Caspian Sea, and who ultimately will control that pipeline. We're ALL deeply engaged in that particular covert struggle.

There is also the rather large and looming issue of Iran's position re: Israel, and our ridiculously blind acquiescence to Israel's foreign policies, which in my opinion are just as shortsighted as those of the little idiot.

I sincerely believe the WH isnt necessarily worried about Iran being a nuclear power, per se, except that, if and when they do, they will have a much bigger dick to wave around the region than we do, and that would throw a wrench into the whole PNAC vision.

Just my $.02

-chef-

[ellisonz]

28. Thank you.

:toast: to the Democratic Majority!

[tom_paine]

29. A murderous distraction, a chance at historic "rehabilitation"

Of course, like all other things the Imperials have predicted and done based on those predictions, it's wrong wrong wrong and will likely have unintended onsequences that make America and the world less safer.

Oh, and Bushler's a Caligula.

[conning]

30. The threat to dollar hegemony

from the Iranian oil bourse. Read William Clark's essay posted in the Editorials section.

[Warren Stupidity]

31. Balkanization of the oil producing states in the region.

Their plan is to deconstruct the post WWI/WWII national boundaries, topple the big nation states (Iraq, Iran, Syria) and reconstruct a new more manageable middle east as a series of ethnic mini-states each of which they can push around more easily as they play king of the hill during the peak oil crisis. Their plan is currently on track, although the political problems at home here are a bit of a barrier.

[Hubert Flottz]

32. Because he's a God damned idiot!

That and the oil.

[H2O Man]

33. One thing stands out

on your post: "He knows Iran is no nuclear threat." That makes the assumption that Bush looks at something -- in this case, evidence on Iran's nuclear capability -- and interprets it in the same manner that you do. Although we are not talking about his viewing it exactly like you, which he surely does not, it is fair to ask if it is likely that he views it even generally in the same manner that you do?

Keep in mind that, contrary to some assumptions made with absolutely no foundation, Bush's world-view is still filtered largely by rigid conservatives and neoconservatives. This includes the same general group that convinced him that Iraq posed a threat with its WMD programs. I think it is worth asking ourselves if there is any evidence that Bush has learned from that mistake? Indeed, even a hint that he considers it to have been a mistake?

Add to that his religious belief system, that clearly puts him in the position as responsible for promoting and protecting the Good Side, versus the Islamic world, which he views as a threatening, satanic force led by Evil Doers.

And last, if we add in the influence of his advisors, who subscribe to the population/resource theory of Malthus, and apply those to the oil supply in the Middle East, and add the Wolfowitz concept of not allowing for any regional power that could contest the US even in their own neighborhood, I think you have the answer to your question. It's a good question, a valid question, and we owe it to ourselves to consider that Bush views the world in the context of a very different "reality" than we do.

[Junkdrawer]

34. There's an elephant in this room, but I don't see it...

Nope, not me. I see nothing.

[Jacobin]

35. AEI

Same think tank that has come up with the 'surge' or whatever they're calling it now. It does not have the national interests of the United States as its goal.

[NashVegas]

36. To Promote Democracy, Of Course

See this thread (and my response in it).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=3062095&mesg_id=3062095

[leesa]

37. Oil.

[dogday]

39. O. I. L.

Oil

Israel

Location


Ray McGovern states it very clearly.....

[meow mix]

41. who else on your map represents any sort of opposition?

they are in the way of chimpcos dreams.. meddling non-ball players.

with the way the media has been "educating" thier viewers i would think they have gotten thier orders too.