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Was the war ever about anything else other than oil?

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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 10:49 AM
Original message
Was the war ever about anything else other than oil?
Edited on Tue Jan-09-07 11:44 AM by Javaman
We scream and yell about how this war was only about oil from the get go, I agree and I also agree that the war was a complete waste of human lives.

Diplomacy probably would have solved this in the long run and in the long run, given recent news, the oil companies would have eventually gotten their hands on these oil fields anyway. http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article...

So playing devils advocate, what are we mad about?

Are we mad that we were lied into a war that cost thousands of lives based on a tale that eventually lead to this moment of multinational oil companies taking over Iraq's oil fields?

Or are we mad that it was a poorly orchestrated disaster in a quest to sustain the basic American life blood that is oil?

I agree that the Iraq war was completely wrong and also completely wrong in the way of dealing with our need for oil. Yes it is a need, our society has been built as such.

If however, in an alternative universe diplomacy was put into place (without a war) that allowed the Iraqi oil fields to be put under the oil companies control and a small royalty was given to the host government in exchange, would that make all of us feel better? Because that is the common practice through out the world.

In the end the same results would be achieved and we would have a fresh supply of oil and no one would know the difference. (how long it would last, is another story)

Instead we were treated to the bull in the china shop method of war and conquest and here we are now.

My point is: we all would love to have a nation that wasn't dependant upon foreign oil to fuel our cars, grow our crops, power our industry, make plastic geegaws that we don't need (not just the ones at china-mart), but the reality is as I stated above, our society is built upon, developed into a nation that live, breaths, and eats oil.

We all talk about alternative energy, heck I'm saving for solar panels for my house, but the reality that many people have clued into yet still seem disconnected with at the same time is that when oil gets very expensive, and it will, everything that we know of at the very moment will change dramatically. Everything. Not one single facet of our lives will not be affected in one way shape or form.

I honestly don't care for that idea, ironically, however, I do understand that as long as we live our lives on oil, these types of wars will continue.

Now some say, well, it's the oil producers faults. Uh huh, yeah, they force us to use the stuff. Right. It is society. It is our government. It is us, that force us to use it.

Our nation is built upon oil. The modern version of the United States would not exist if it were not for oil.

It powers everything, it provides for our defense, it gives us drinkable water, the food we eat, light at night, heat in the winter and cool air in the summer.

We all talk about getting off the grid or using alternative fuels however unless you have a small ransom to shell out to power your home via wind (if applicable) or solar, it's pretty much a forgone conclusion that it won't happen any time soon.

GM releases yet another concept car. A plug in hybrid that gets 40 miles to the charge. Are they kidding? They had the EV-1, an all electric car that got between 150-175 miles to the charge and yet they chose to pull it off the market all as a result of the California Zero emission law that so offended them. Toyota has the Prius. Yes it does, but yet again, if you are living on a budget and would still love to be environmentally conscious, it is beyond your means.

So then take the bus? It runs on fossil fuels but it's at least a group effort that gets cars off the road. I do that, but the reality is, I live in a city that has a fairly good public transportation system, the majority of American cities do not. So that moves us back to square one.

How about a bike? Unless you live in a city that had forethought, forget it. I lived in Los Angeles for several years and road my bike everywhere. It is certainly not a bike friendly town and it is just a small example of what many other cities are like through out this nation. Only a handful cater to the two wheel mentality.

Need to take a long trip? Take the train! Amtrak has been so underfunded that it's a mere shadow of what the train industry once was. Just 50 years ago we had one of the best train/transportation industries in the world. It has been slowly eroded by the various auto and oil lobbyists.

So where does that leave us? The car. After the 1952 antitrust ruling fining the Tire manufacturers 1 dollar for them systematically dismantling the trolley industry through out the U.S. our fate was sealed.

The car is king. There are a few die-hards that will do everything they can do avoid using it, consider me one. However, sometimes I have to use my car. What makes me sick about it, is not so much that I'm polluting, but the fact that our society is built in such a way that the psychological need is required of us to use the car.

Convenience.

We have built a society on immediate gratification.

I'm renovation my home. I need a particular type of nail. I jump in my car to get it. With out the car, I ride my bike. The car takes 15 minutes, the bike will take 45 minutes to an hour. And there we find ourselves. A project that instead of taking an hour to complete now will take 2 to 3 hours.

We are now in the chicken or the egg situation. Do we jump in the car to get that nail because the pace of our existence demands it or is society the one dictating the pace by which we live our lives?

Oil.

Oil makes that quandary happen. Remove oil, life changes. It slows down, it becomes more difficult. 1 gallon of gas equals 30 hours of human labor.

(remember I'm playing devils advocate here)We bitch and complain about how the oil companies are now screwing the Iraqi's out of their own oil, think about what you are saying? Are you angry that the Iraqi's are getting screwed out of money? If so, then look at Saudi Arabia. We get pissed because they hold us by the balls with their oil. Yet we are looking to give the Iraqi's the same empowerment. It's their oil, but just realize that is the alternative situation.

Are we pissed then because we bullied ourselves into Iraq to take their oil wasting lives for a finite commodity? I would think so, but then again, given the United States history, we have done other things like this, perhaps not in such an overt way, but it's pretty much business as usual. Granted, that doesn't make it right.

Are we angry that it was the fact that we were lied to about what got us into this war? Yet, we aren't surprised when we find out it was for oil. We get all so high and mighty when we way, "it was for oil" then jump in our car and drive home. Think about that next time you go to an anti-war rally.

If there is a colossal disconnect with anything, it's this bizarre love hate relationship the American public has with oil.

We get pissed when the price goes up at the pump, but yet, we don't like wars based on natural resources. The odd thing is, we can't have it both ways. If you don't like the wars for oil, don't drive your car. Don't use plastic products. Don't eat non-organic foods. Don't drink water from your tap and don't use lights in your home.

We live in a paradox. We enjoy those things I stated above. I enjoy those things. We need some of them.

We are a world in deep trouble. We have grown to big to sustain our existence. Easy oil is running out. We are in the last few minutes of the musical chairs. Where as the chairs become fewer and fewer, the fights break out between the kids to try and edge the other one off the seat to claim it.

We live in an era of wars. Afghanistan is all about the Baku pipeline.

Iraq is about it's oil fields.

Nigeria is about oil

Sudan is about oil

The Caucus war is about oil

Israel and Palestine is about oil and WATER (the next wave of wars yet to come)

The coming war or what ever it will be with Iran will be about oil.

Turkey will get pissed if the Kurds get a state, because the Kurds will have huge oil fields and that will give them power and money to fund the Kurds in Turkey. Oil.

China is cutting deals with Iran.

Russia is cutting deals with Europe and screwing their neighbors.

The list goes on and on.

Where will it all end? Think 17th century Europe where parts were still in serfdom and others are being ruled by a ruling elite. Most everything was run on animal labor and human sweat. When will this happen? Sometime in the early part of the 22nd century. Prior to that, it will be wars, famine and a slow die off until the world stabilizes it population.

Why the doom and gloom? Because human nature dictates it. We have global warming, yet the nations of the world can't solve the most basic of their problems, how on earth are the governments of the world come up with a plan by which they all agree and will act upon?

And when they do, it will be much to late.

The oil our government fights for, pollutes our atmosphere. That atmosphere clouds up with smog thus trapping the suns rays. In-turn heating us up. As we heat up, ice caps melt, oceans rise, planting patterns change, temperature zones change, plants die off, animals die off and the ecosystem goes into shock. My ability to grow food in my yard diminishes. Water becomes as valuable as gold. Life slows down. It's not pretty.

This was one long rambling post, I think it was a bit of a catharsis for me.

I'm worried.

I worry about the future my kids will have.
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. Oil was the number one reason....revenge of the Bushes comes in second.
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rox63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
2. I think it was also about *'s "Daddy" issues n/t
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pansypoo53219 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. WAY oedipal
georgie was just waiting for an excuse to get sadaam to show mommy he is a better 'man'.
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
3. $500B and 650,000 lives.
Yeah this is the wrong way to negotiate an oil futures contract. We don't get to dictate where anyone else's resources go, nor do we get to demand favorable treatment. The money we spent on keeping Iraq's oil off the market and supposedly securing future control of its extraction could have been spent on R&D for alternative energy sources.

We are making all the wrong choices as we head into the planetary civilization crisis of peak oil and global warming. Blood Oil and Water: the three vital fluids over which our leaders have decided that the best course of action appears to be yet another round of global conflict. When did we vote for endless war? When did we vote to plunge civilization into conflict rather than find peaceful alternatives?

As far as I can tell their solution for us is a massive die off via conflict and catastrophe.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Well said.
I wonder where we might be if we had continued down the path Carter started back in the 70s.
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Indeed. What a disaster that right turn has been.
Morning in America? It is more like mourning for the green America that could have been. 25 years of total head up ass idiocy. 25 years and counting.
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eauclaireliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
4. Protection of Israel
Iraq makes a good strategic point to launch U.S. aircraft to bomb Israel's enemies.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
5. A nice excuse to hand billion$ of our dollars to B*sh and Cheney's buddies. nm
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
8. to be more precise, it was about money
which includes the control of the supply of the oil


hundreds of billions of dollars now, trillions of dollars over a few more years

controlling the supply of Iraq's oil (not necessarily the same thing as owning the oil), likely means hundreds of trillions of dollars over the long haul
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. exactly! making money for the military/industrial barons
nt
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
11. Yes, oil is #1, but also
2) avenging wimpy Poppy.

3) competing/BEATING Poppy.

4) evening score with Saddam and others.

5) strutting stuff.

6) supporting Israel.

(fill in 7 through 9)

10. kicking some Arab ass.
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