Bangor makes it illegal to smoke in cars

[johnnie]

"BANGOR, Maine - The Bangor City Council approved a measure Monday that prohibits people from smoking in vehicles when

When the law goes into effect next week, Bangor will become the first municipality in Maine to have such a law. Similar statewide measures have been adopted in Arkansas and Louisiana and are under consideration in several other states.

<SNIP>

"An amendment that was added Monday to the original proposal makes the violation a primary offense, rather than a secondary offense. That means police can pull over vehicles if they see somebody smoking with anybody under 18 in the vehicle; if it were a secondary offense, police would have to stop the vehicle for some other reason, such as speeding."


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070109/ap_on_he_me/smoking_cars_1


Yeah, I know this is a hot topic, but I still can't understand how people support this kind of shit. Of course it is bad to blow smoke all over your children, but do we really need to be giving up these sort of liberties? A 17 year old kid can be pulled over for smoking in their car now.

There is no doubt this will catch on across the country. I know many of you are completely anti-smoking, but do you really agree with these kind of laws?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. I didn't know about the Arkansas law

My husband is now weaning himself off tobacco and is smoking mullein. I am worried now that he'll be pulled over and arrested for smoking something that isn't tobacco but is legal to smoke.

[Midlodemocrat]

2. No, I don't. And, I am terribly allergic to cigarette smoke.

I will say, if there are small kids in the car, I am kinda in favor of it, but for adults this is ridiculous.

:hi:

[Little Wing]

5. I wasn't aware cigarette smoke contains proteins

:shrug:

[Midlodemocrat]

41. ?

[ProfessorGAC]

3. This Sort Of Intrusionary Gov't Gives Me The Hives

It's just one thing after another. At some point, won't the politicians figure out that they can't protect every child against everything, no matter how intrusive they make the laws?

I gotta go put some calamine on now!
THe Professor

[Little Wing]

4. smoking in vehicles when children are present

I don't agree with this, but you did conveniently or accidently leave out the critical point of the article

[bbgrunt]

10. smoking in vehicles when children are present if a window is

cracked presents no health hazard to the children as the smoke is drawn out the window. this stuff is seriously out of control.

[Little Wing]

28. Like I said, I didn't agree with it, but the OP left out when children are present

[johnnie]

13. What part ?

[Little Wing]

29. Read your first line

[johnnie]

30. Yeah

I copied the headline of the article as it was written. I then added the part about it being with children under 18 years old. I don't get what part you think I left out.

[Little Wing]

35. where it stops with the word "WHEN"

:rofl:

[johnnie]

37. Oh, ok

I guess I messed that up. But I did make sure I added the part about under 18, to make sure it was understood.

[seabeyond]

38. i clearly understood by your post it was stating when children are present

[johnnie]

42. Oh well

I thought it was clear. But now I do see where I cut off that part. I purposely copied the part about under 18 to make sure it stated that. Can't win for losing..lol.

[dogday]

6. Will they be telling me what to wipe with next?

Just sayin :shrug:

[shain from kane]

23. Just don't do it in front of children. And keep the smell down.

[seabeyond]

31. so they dont see you. is that the next law. no smoke getting to them

a law so they dont "see"

[shain from kane]

39. Children need to be sheltered from what adults do with cigarettes...and cigars.

[seabeyond]

40. you are serious. i am rollin eyes. n/t

[shain from kane]

45. No doubt bloodshot eyes from all that smoking. It's the vision thing.

[seabeyond]

48. so because of my smoking, all the goodness of your character shines

to further trash me, and show what a bad person i am? no my eyes are not bloodshot, that is a stupid comment.

i will not teach my children to hide their wrongs in shame. i own what i do, and clearly say the poor choice i make. the tough time it has been to quit. how everything about smoking i hate, not a minute of it do i like. that i wish i had never started. on the other thing, to hide in shame is not something i am willing to teach my children.

then again, i would also have to insist others hide their shame. be it not putting in a good amount of time reading setting a good example, or eating the candy or twinkie, or divorcing a mate, or riding the motorcycle, or voting for bush.....

my children know i am not perfect and they are able to love me anyway. this gives them a greater lesson than any on smoking. it allows them to see me not in perfection, but merely human. and it allows them to love themselves in non perfection and that i am able to love the perfectly imperfect human that they are. and at all cost,.... we dont desire to hurt another, put them to shame, or make another less so we can feel better about ourselves.

[dogday]

55. I think we need to just keep the kids locked up

You know, just to be on the safe side, we should never let them leave the house, or anything else that could hurt them... Perverts are everywhere, playgrounds are dangerous, playing on bikes and skates could hurt them.. In my town just going outside can hurt them... These new drugs they give them, they could hurt them. Clothes made out of flammable material can hurt them... Certain car-seats are not working and can hurt them. Fast Food can hurt them. Nipples are collapsing.


Do I need to go on?

[AndyA]

7. I am one of the "anti-smokers rights" people.

While I understand smokers have a right to smoke, I also believe they do not have the right to endanger the lives of others by smoking.

This is a tough one, I see our rights eroding, and I do not agree with that, yet I understand the need for some of these laws.

In Oklahoma, the law is that you cannot smoke within 15 feet of the entry to a building. Yet day after day, I have to dodge the gauntlet of smokers to get in and out of my office building. Cigarette butts are all over the sidewalk out front. It's disgusting.

If smokers want to be treated with respect, they will have to earn it in my book. And that starts with obeying the law, not throwing their litter on the sidewalk, and not blowing smoke on others as they pass by.

I understand not everyone is so inconsiderate, but I would hope parents would not have to be told to not smoke in any enclosed area when their children are around. Do they care for the safety and well-being of their children? If they do, they would not be exposing them to second hand smoke. There is more than enough evidence to show that this could be hazardous to their health.

So, I guess it's a case of a few bad apples ruining it for everyone else.

Yes, I do believe smokers should be able to smoke when they want to, but they should be responsible enough to realize what they are doing is bad for them and others around them, and take steps to minimize exposure of their smoke and cigarette butts to others.

[Clark2008]

11. Stop throwing the outside.

I think the lack of respect started with laws against the smokers. Provide them a clean, ventilated smoking room and you'll see an improvement in the aesthetics.

[AndyA]

25. I agree that forcing smokers outside is not the best idea.

However, many facilities are not set up to provide an inside area for smokers. And the cost to create such an area is quite high. Especially in older structures that are not designed to have such an area.

And who should bear the costs of such an area? The people who utilize it, or everyone?

The answer is not as simple as it seems.

[ixion]

27. you're the one who can't handle it... you pay for it.

I have a real problem with people who can't seem to realize that human beings are, in fact, human, and the world is not, in fact, risk free.

[AndyA]

34. WRONG - when you knowingly do something that is dangerous to yourself

and others, YOU ACCEPT THE RISK, not I.

Educated humans have the ability to identify risk and deal with it in a manner that is acceptable to them.

I have a real problem with people who knowingly expose me to hazardous substances. If they want to kill themselves, that's fine, but it is not acceptable to inflict their toxins on me.

[sinkingfeeling]

18. If they really cared about the safety and well-being of their children, they wouldn't allow them in

cars. They wouldn't allow them in swimming pools. They wouldn't allow them to breathe the air at all when on a highway. Please, there are reasonable limits to protecting kids.

[AndyA]

22. Yes, there is a risk with everything we do.

Allowing them in a car vs. a car that has bad brakes, for instance. You know the danger is far greater with bad brakes.

Allowing them in a swimming pool vs. allowing them to swim with no adult supervision.

Allowing them to breathe the air on a highway vs. allowing them to breathe the air on a highway in an enclosed car with a high concentration of carcinogenic smoke in it. Which is the least risky?

There are reasonable steps that should be taken, and any responsible parent should not have to be told to not smoke around their kids. It's bad for them. Just the same as any responsible parent would know not to let their kid stand up in the back seat of a car when traveling. But you see it all the time, unfortunately. There are laws against that as well.

Why would any responsbile parent not do everything they reasonably could do to protect their children? Exposing them to second hand smoke in a closed environment is just bad.

[seabeyond]

32. wndows. sunroofs. enclosed?

[immortalstar_2007]

36. Cigarette Butts and Such

There was a time when ashtrays were nearly everywhere--sort of like diaper changing stations in most cities now. Maybe humans can act like humans. Maybe not.

[movonne]

8. I am a reformed smoker and have been very supportive of most

of the laws about smoking...but I do think this is going to far..If they are going to do this then why not make it against the law to smoke, like weed....

[Sapere aude]

9. Oh Boy, another smoking thread. These are so much fun.

[johnnie]

15. This is beyond smoking

My point is the intrusiveness of it all, not the smoking part.

[cwydro]

12. I don't smoke

and never have.

But I think that is ridiculous. Sheesh.

[MindPilot]

14. This is more about police power than child safety.

Just another excuse to pull you over, check your papers and conduct a warrantless search.

[NorthernSpy]

53. Shut up and bend over, citizen -- it's for the Chuuuuuuuldruuuuunnn!

The Children have become government's all-purpose excuse for grabbing ever more power, and violating ever more of your rights.

[Warpy]

16. Your first sentence should have read

"BANGOR, Maine - The Bangor City Council approved a measure Monday that prohibits people from smoking in vehicles when children are present."

That makes a big difference. Nobody should be smoking in a car with the windows rolled up and kids inside.

[johnnie]

17. Sorry

That was the headline, and I just copied it that way.

[seabeyond]

33. then is it legal if windows rolled down and sunroof opened?

why do you have "Nobody should be smoking in a car with the windows rolled up and kids inside". i cannot imagine smoking in a car with windows closed. yet you put this in your post for agrument of the law. there is no clarification in law

[Midlodemocrat]

44. I see it every morning.

Moms smoking with the windows up and kids inside.

[seabeyond]

49. well i dont. i dont like the smell myself. but i also dont like the children

to not be able to breath the air. i personally have not seen all these moms driving there kids to school with windows rolled up. i have see very few moms smoking when i drive the kids to school. but i am going to dedicate my time over the next week keeping my eyes open for smokers and see if their window is rolled up. i personally could not smoke in the car if the smoke was staying in my car, with or without kids.

[Midlodemocrat]

50. The thing is, I don't think most smokers realize

that the window needs to be down. My own experience is that smokers keep the windows up if they are alone or until they are asked to put one down.

Sitting in a car with a very heavy smoker and no window open is nothing short of torture.

[seabeyond]

51. again, wouldnt even be a thought for me to not open the window

you may be right, or maybe not. i grew up with two parents that smoked and i was a competitive swimmer. i would work out for two hours, hard and jump in the car. my mom wouldnt open the window, and i would open mine and breath the air. maybe that is why i am so conscious of it. but again i say, i cannot imagine driving in my car and not having window open, and if wind isnt picking it up and taking it out the car, i open the sunroof to. i always hold in my left had, next to the window. never does my cig come into the center of car

so..... do i get a ticket?

[Midlodemocrat]

52. If you live in Maine.

And, again, not to trash you, but I've had friends who have quit and subsequently stated that they couldn't believe how bad their cars/houses smelled from the smoke.

My own mom couldn't believe how badly her car smelled when she quit. She had never noticed it.

[seabeyond]

54. that is the smell,. you dont like the smell, dont come to my home or my car

that is merely a smell. if you are talking second hand smoke, that they have proclaimed to be a hazzard to a person health, then i will talk about that. but to like a person, not like a person because of a smell, so be it. i dont need that person around me any more than they may want to be around me. what i have found, when i begin a friendship i listen to the speel of hate to smoking. and when i want a cig i move far away and out of site. because seeing me smoke seems to cause as much stress as a smell, let alone the actual smoke. after the friendship develops these anti smokers all of a sudden is no longer bothered by me smoking. i try to take a break and go away to smoke and they so no it is ok. doesnt bother me. wtf....

i feel so much of this is more psychologically created in hate to smoker than anything else.

i dont care if my car smells like cig. is that going to be a law. a smell?

btw: to be clear.... i hate smoking. hate it. trying to quit every day. i do not advocate smoking. i do not like it. also, i would work as hard on someones right to be overweight, being gay, abortion, and so many of the other laws we are deeming a responsibility to protect.... from our beliefs or perspectives

[Midlodemocrat]

56. Ok, I won't.

But, my point stands. Many, many people smoke in their cars with the windows rolled up and children inside.

You don't. That is very considerate of you. And, I understand how hard it is to quit, I watched my mom try for many many years until it finally killed her.

But, for every one of you, as a considerate smoker, there are those who aren't. I had a woman try to smoke in my house over the holidays and told me to 'get over it'. I'm an astonishly gracious hostess, if I say so myself, but I asked her to leave.

[Warpy]

59. No, and there should be

The law must've been written by a Repug.

:evilgrin:

[Midlodemocrat]

43. You're right, but people do.

I drive my youngest to school and every morning, I see tons of moms with the windows up smoking away.

I think it's wrong, but that's just me.

[Beelzebud]

19. Big Brother knows whats best for us!

[Infinite Hope]

20. 2 Free Hands When Driving.

Not difficult to understand.

[Bake]

24. I think we're a bit more coordinated than that.

But if not, then stay the hell off your cell phone while driving. And no eating or drinking (anything, not just alcohol) while driving. And get rid of the stereo and the iPod while you're at it. Oh, and no kids in the car either -- they're a guaranteed distraction.

Bake

[FourScore]

57. If this is about the safety of driving,

then I agree with it. I was recently rear-ended by a woman who was momentarily distractred by her cigarettes. Thank goodness, my children weren't in the car.

In New York, you can't drive with a cell phone. Some states are also contemplating laws against other activities while driving (i.e. eating at the wheel, reading, etc.). Statistics show that these kinds of distractions can be deadly.

If it is about exposing the children...well, that is an issue. I don't know if this is the way to handle it.

This is one issue that doesn't get me too worked up. There are bigger fish to fry.

I will say, I speak as a former smoker who supported putting cigarettes out in public places while I was still smoking. I have asthma, and the slightest bit of smoke sets off an attack (that's why I quit) so I guess I've seen both sides of this argument. I sure wouldn't want to expose my kids to second-hand smoke.

[cboy4]

21. I don't have a problem with people smoking in their cars, but I do

have a problem with people throwing their butts out of the window.

And the only reason I say this is because I have a sun roof, and the last thing I need when I'm driving on the freeway is for a lit butt to come flying into my car (which has nearly happened more than just once.)

You've seen it before....you're driving at night and all of a sudden you see a shower of sparks come flying out of the car ahead.

Otherwise, who cares if people smoke and drive?

[porphyrian]

26. Yeah, that's what law enforcement needs to be focusing on.

:eyes:

[sandnsea]

46. What about Happy Meals

Seems to me kids are being harmed by fast food more than cigarette smoke. When are they going to outlaw junk food?

This is just stupid. The fumes from the traffic does more damage than the cigarette smoke.

They're also going to destroy their tourism business. When they figure that out, this law will get repealed in a hurry.

[NorthernSpy]

47. solution: cross bridge, light up in Brewer...

:eyes:

An amendment that was added Monday to the original proposal makes the violation a primary offense, rather than a secondary offense. That means police can pull over vehicles if they see somebody smoking with anybody under 18 in the vehicle; if it were a secondary offense, police would have to stop the vehicle for some other reason, such as speeding.

Bad idea. How are the cops supposed to know at a glance whether that young-looking person in the car is 17 ("justifying" a stop) or 18 (not justifying a stop)? This primary offense clause throws the door wide open for all kinds of unwarranted stops -- and the inevitable unwarranted searches that always follow such stops.


And the heck of it is, the biggest respiratory danger to children in vehicles is engine exhaust -- especially diesel exhaust from passing trucks:

Dr. Thurston said the findings of the study, which will be published in a scientific journal next year, showed that only 5 to 10 percent of the fine particle pollution was soot from diesel exhaust, but it was that portion that seemed to be having the worst effect on the children's asthma. He said their symptoms, like wheezing, doubled on days when pollution from truck traffic was highest.

[madinmaryland]

58. Read the law....

"The Bangor City Council approved a measure Monday that prohibits people from smoking in vehicles when children are present. "

If someone is alone in a car, they can smoke all they want. The only time it is illegal, is when there are minors in the vehicle.