The iPhone is here...and OMFG...

[Atman]

Check this baby out...and, as luck would have it, my conract with Cingular is up very soon (IOW, I can upgrade!) and my iPod is an antique that needs to be replaced. This thing is insane! Phone, iPod and PDA all in one. Just one button.

DROOOOOOOL

http://www.apple.com/

[eppur_se_muova]

1. That's it ... NO cell phones in the room during exams. nt

[evlbstrd]

2. It's stunning.

I've never had a cell phone or an iPod. It might be time.

[Atman]

6. It even has a REAL web browser...actual web pages, not crap cell pages

You can zoom on on page elements...turn it sideways and see it in wide-screen.

This thing is amazing!

.

[ClassWarrior]

3. It IS stunning. But is it just compatible with...

...that crappy Cingular service?

NGU.

[Atman]

8. It is a Cingular phone

HA HA! Cingular is the best phone service I've had. Best service, best reception. Sorry. Maybe it's your location? I'm freakin' stoked!

.

[ClassWarrior]

11. It probably is my location. I had trouble getting a signal...

...in my own home with Cingular! And I live in a thriving urban area. :shrug: Go figure...

NGU.

[Atman]

16. I finally gave up my land line because Cingular was reliable and clear and...

...it even works well at my weekend place way out in the woods. I hate to say I like a big megacorp like Cingular, but they've been pretty damned good. I only wound up with them by default because I used to be an AT&T customer, and AT&T SUCKED. I couldn't walk from my studio to the kitchen without dropping a call. Hell, I was afraid to MOVE using AT&T. If a bird flew overhead, it would block the signal (okay, not quite). I didn't want Cingular, but I got "stuck" with them...and they turned out to be pretty damned good.

Remember, though...ALL cell phone companies suck. The goal is to find which sucks the least, and so far, that seems to be Cingular for me.

.

[jilln]

41. Cingular belongs to AT&T.

[Atman]

46. You don't think I know that?

Do you Cingular or AT&T? They don't know each other exists. I get regular mailings from AT&T begging me to "come back." When I "migrated" my service from AT&T to Cingular, I got a call from AT&T collections the very next week demanding an "early cancellation fee."

"BUT YOU'RE THE SAME COMPANY!"

"Well, we're the "blue" floor. We're still seperate..."

It was a clusterfuck. They may pretend they're one company, but no one sent the memo to their employees.

The FACT remains...my AT&T service SUCKED and never worked. The minute they migrated me to Cingular, it's been great.

Whatever.

.

[jilln]

51. I don't know what you know...

and I certainly wasn't implying anything.

Part of the reason I have no cell phone is because I can't find any company that isn't AT&T or distasteful for some other reason.

BTW - I have AT&T right now because I fired SBC and MCI, and it is by far the worse service I have ever gotten from a company.

[Atman]

57. AT&T totally sucked.

Look, sorry for sounding snarky. I just get a little fed up with "common sense" stuff. Like, I stated I was an AT&T client and had to migrate to Cingular. Did you honestly think maybe I didn't get a mailer or announcement or anything?

Again, of course you don't know what I know...but any reasonably intelligent adult should have been able to surmise that I was aware of the merger from my post. Peace.

.

[jilln]

59. So I'm not reasonably intelligent?

Thanks for the apology for sounding snarky, and the insult that followed.

I don't read my junk mail. I bet if I asked 10 people on the street, at least half would not know who Cingular belongs to. In fact, when I called T-Mobile to see if they belonged to a bigger phone company, the saleswoman did not know.

And thanks also for reminding me that there's not much point in talking to strangers on the Internet unless you don't get enough abuse in your real life.

[Atman]

61. I'm sorry.

I didn't mean to insult you. Seriously.

.

[dad]

245. SBC and ATT are the same

SBC bought ATT and changed the name of the company to ATT because of the better name recognition (even though everyone hates AT+T).

[jilln]

272. Yeah I know... that happened

right after I fired SBC and got AT&T because SBC sucked ;-)

[Dorian Gray]

353. I didn't know...

and I'm not dumb. Just don't give a crap, as I have very good service with my Verizon phone and never shopped around for AT&T or Cingular.

[sendero]

168. You must live in opposite land..

... here in Dallas, I had AT&T for 7 years before Cingular bought them out. The AT&T phone service worked near perfectly, the new Cingular network I was forced to switch to (GMA?) sucks ass. Dropped calls, crappy audio, 60 second call setups, the whole works.

I'd love to have my AT&T TDMA phone back, it acutally worked. And don't get me started on Cingular customer service. :)

[RC Quake]

327. I wholeheartedly concur with everything you said!

AT&T was wonderful for 10 years. Cingular took over...sucks big time. And I'm in Southern California where there are ample towers to cover my entire area.

[northzax]

98. not really

actually. Cingular was spun off from SBC (it is the old SBC wireless) and then bought AT&T Wireless, and promptly sold the AT&T name back to AT&T. SBC then bought what was left of AT&T. So technically, AT&T wireless (where I was a customer) is owned, under a different name, by Cingular, which is in turn owned by SBC, which also owns AT&T. Got it? :)

[Pawel K]

54. Same here. I'm on T-Mobile which shares its network with Cingular

and it is terrible. Most locations I am ok, but it just so happens that at home I have terrible service. I can make and receive calls but I can not hear what the other person is saying because it will constantly (every couple seconds) break up. My contract is up in 1 month, I probably wont renew.

[Atman]

58. Should every provider have to put up their own towers and networks?

My, wouldn't the countryside look lovely!

They all share the same infrastructure. Why one sucks on a network where another is great, I don't have a clue. All I know is that AT&T and Cingular, while supposedly the same company, provided me with service as different as night and day.

.

[proud2BlibKansan]

210. They do use different towers

That's what roaming is. Plus, when they merge, they still use different towers. Sprint and Nextell merged but still use different towers. I would imagine the same is true for the other mergers.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

129. T-Mobile is the best cell service I've ever had

I've been with many many cellular companies, and T-Mobile is the first that I've had good luck with.

I think it's true, like someone pointed out upthread. Service is different in different areas, and what is good in onea rea may be average or poor in another.

[proud2BlibKansan]

206. It all depends on where the towers are

We had a lot of trouble getting service in our house until they finally added a tower nearby.

[bleedingheart]

388. My cingular phone never worked in my own home and in many

areas where I travel for work.

my husband and I gave them up for Verizon which I am able to get a signal with in my home and other locations...

[Clark2008]

108. I had awful reception with Cingular - dropped calls left and right.

Of course, I'm in the heart of BellSouth country - the company who owns (used to own?) Cingular.

[NNN0LHI]

110. Cingular is union too. I think it is the only carrier that is n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

204. And it is probably the worst I have had

Customer service was only available during working hours and when I did get them, they almost always refused to give me credit for dropped calls. When my phone broke, it was hellacious getting them to honor the warranty.

I have Sprint now. They answer their customer service lines 24/7 and always credit dropped calls. Plus their network works everywhere I go. And the phones last longer.

Could be so great since I live in Sprint Hdqt's home town but I have had phones with all of them and Sprint has been the best service I have had yet. Plus most of my friends have Sprint so we can talk for free.

[ScreamingMeemie]

309. Best I've had too. Including Verizon, Nextel and TMobile.

The only service I can get continuously on i-75 is through Cingular. :thumbsup:

I'd break that though.

[Deja Q]

62. Given Cingular was proud to announce they would be the iPhone's carrier...

the day before the iPhone was actually introduced, I think people are stuck with Cingular. :shrug:

[northzax]

74. six months

then everyone will have it, I bet. remember, Cingular did the motorola iTunes phones first as well.

[Deja Q]

78. Does 'everyone' mean 'everybody'?

:spray:

I still have yet to get an iPod. (My PDA plays songs and far more for the price...)

[Atman]

85. And it bombed, because it wasn't an Apple UI

So, lots of phones hold 20 songs from music-rental services.

This is totally, totally different. Do some research.

.

[northzax]

95. and this too, will bomb

honestly. 500 bucks? until it leave the Cingular only domain and becomes more readily available, it will continue to bomb.

[Atman]

103. BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

There are lots of successful cell phones NOW that sell for close to $500 bucks and do nothing.

Wanna put some money on that 'bomb' scenerio?

.

[northzax]

113. sure. what's your definition of 'bomb'?

I say they will sell fewer than 50,000 units by the end of the year. I consider that a bomb. the RAKR sold that many in the first year, after all.

none of this means that I don't want one, by the way.

and most of those $500 phones you are talking about are bought by companies, for employees, or given at deep discounts to renewing subscribers. Apple does not discount, which means no rebates for these phones, everyone pays full frieght, and no corporate or organizational sales. how many people you know of pay for their blackberries or treos? almost everyone I know carries one, and they are all corporate. you think the law firm is going to spring for this? I don't.

[Atman]

130. I say you're nuts

The RAKR and the ROKR were not Apple products. They were poorly designed Motorola phones which liscened Apple iTunes.

This is 100% Apple.

That makes all the difference in the world.

.

[northzax]

282. but you do know that it doesn't work yet, right?

never before has the company launched something at macExpo that was so far off market. Even the demo versions showed to the pres had placeholders saying "this is what's going to be here" it's not going to be released for six months, and it doesn't work yet, hell, Cingular didn't get their hands on one to see if it works on their system until yesterday.

sure, it looks great, in mockups, but then, hey, what doesn't from Apple? until I can see a functional one, I remain skeptical. anyone remember Copeland? no one writes good software on schedule, not even Apple.

[onenote]

294. I'll take that bet

I'm betting that the iphone, if it comes out in June as announced, easily tops 50,000 units worldwide by the end of the year.

[northzax]

297. no caveats

simply yes or no on the sales. Part of the fun is betting on the rollout.

[onenote]

301. okay, no caveats

sales in excess of 50K worldwide by end of year 2007.

[Nederland]

299. Perhaps you'd like this as well

:)

[onenote]

300. you're assuming I like apple products -

which shows that you know nothing. I am not interested in owning an iphone, or a mac. The only apple product i own is a 1 gig shuffle that my brother in law gave me as a christmas present last year and that I've listened two all of two times (and only because he loaded it with music before he gave it to me -- if it had been "empty" when he gave it to me, it would still be empty today).

But that doesn't mean that there aren't thousands upon thousands of people worldwide that will leap on the iphone.

[Xithras]

138. It's a GSM phone, with all of the complications that entails.

Since it's a GSM phone, it should work on any GSM capable network (which means: Pretty much anyone other than Verizon or Sprint). The only restriction against using it on other services would be a service lock, which is easily defeatable once the codes are leaked (which, if history is any indicator, will be about a week).

The problem for Americans is that the U.S. is dominated by CDMA networks...Verizon and Sprint control the vast majority of American cellphones...which are completely incompatible with GSM phones (leave it to Apple to support the "underdog" technology). Globally it's a smarter move for them, since GSM is the standard in Europe and pretty much everywhere else on the planet. If you want to use this in the US, you'll either have to use Cingular, or use an unlocked version with another GSM provider (like T-Mobile).

I've seen it mentioned in a few places that Verizon may start to roll out limited GSM service in some major urban areas in the next few years. If they do, people in those areas will be able to use the iPhone also. Considering the time and money that Verizon has expended convincing people that CDMA is "better", I wouldn't count on it though.

[Atman]

144. I love the people who think America is so advanced

We're freakin' light years behind every other industrialized nation. The wake-up call for me was the news report a few years ago about the bullet train crash in...TURKEY. Our government hypes up our greatness and world tech dominance, yet it seems every country on earth has hi-speed mass transit except US. TURKEY HAS BULLET TRAINS. We're trying to shut down fucking AMTRAK! Every other nation has the sickest cell phone technology...we lose our signal if it's cloudy.

America has turned into the old USSR. Soon well be huddled by the bulletin board in the town square to read our version of Pravda stapled to the wall, telling us how we're still the greatest, most all-powerful people on earth!

.

[Xithras]

185. Honestly, it's so much "advanced" as it is "compatible".

GSM isn't inherently better than CDMA, they just have different strengths. In fact, both GSM/EDGE and CDMA2000 are considered to be "equal" 2.75G technologies. CDMA has better range, allowing providers to use fewer towers and provide better service in rural areas and along interstates between cities. GSM has shorter range, but has better voice bandwidth (allowing clearer calls) and interoperability. Because GSM is so much more common throughout the world, GSM hardware and handsets also tends to be cheaper, allowing users to pay less for their phones and providers to offer less expensive service. Just to muddy the picture further and prevent GSM from seeming saintly, newer revisions of the CDMA2000 standard now give that technology substantially more bandwidth than GSM/EDGE, though nobody is using those revisions yet.

The problem really boils down to this: The Europeans and engineers from elsewhere in the world came together and democratically designed a "standard". That standard may not be the best, but it's the standard that today works over most of the world. Telecom companies in the US, unencumbered by legal demands that they inter-operate, developed their own "standards". The US standards were superior to the European standards in some ways, and inferior in others. It's just a different standard.

Cingular, T-Mobile, and some other providers switched to GSM primarily because the global GSM standard means that GSM equipment is cheaper (greater demand = lower per unit costs). Companies like Verizon look at GSM as being a roughly "equal" technology, but understand that converting to it would require thousands of new towers nationwide while offering little real benefit to the users (cheaper handsets aren't considered a "benefit" to Verizon execs). If Verizon gets the EV-DV stuff implemented on their CDMA network, all of us GSM users actually may be turning green with envy...EDGE enabled GSM phones (including this new iPhone) can download at about 200Kbs or 2 megabits in one direction (what a standard DSL line can do). The new EV-DV CDMA standard can do over 3 megabits...bidirectionally. We're talking realtime streaming of HD content there (think realtime mobile videophones with multi-megabit picture quality).

So you see, it's not a matter of better, it's a matter of "different".

[WinkyDink]

267. I think your post elucidates exactly how "different" standards ARE, in fact, INFERIOR

by virtue of DIFFERING.

[snooper2]

277. good explanation...but some people still won't understand..

kind of like T1 vs. E1....

[IronLionZion]

293. Considering the situation here, CDMA dominates the US because it works for the US

it goes through things like buildings and trees really well. And I honestly don't care about going to other countries because once you get there, just get a cheap unlocked GSM phone and a prepaid sim card. GSM is great in those countries. CDMA is king in the US. I'm pretty loyal to Verizon because they and Sprint are the ONLY services that work in the rural area where my parents live.

Atman your point about public transit is the same way. Consider the terrain and population density of the US. We are a vast country with many sparsely populated areas. Ever heard of "flyover states"? That why air travel is king. Plus we have a strong car culture. Rail does exist and is used in densely populated areas such as the Bos-Wash megalopolis and in many urban areas. Amtrak fucking blows. It really does. I'd support keeping it for the folks who don't have cars and use it but that doesn't stop it from sucking. We'd have to uproot a lot of good people's homes and businesses to put in straight tracks for high-speed rail.

I still dream of one day having a high speed Mag-lev system although I have no reason to actually use it. I love my car.

[proud2BlibKansan]

202. My thoughts too

It sure would be nice to have it be compatible with some other service. I hate Cingular.

[depakid]

4. When they invent one that uses wireless internet connections

and can run skype, maybe I'll get one.

[Atman]

9. Hell, I'm not sure it CAN'T!

It seems to everything else.

.

[depakid]

20. My wireless skype phone is kick ass

I do a lot of international calling- for free! or I can call regular phones overseas VERY cheaply with skype credits. In the US it's $14 per year for unlimited long distance.

[originalpckelly]

42. I think you may be right there, it runs Mac OS X, so that probably...

means it is expandable.

[Richard Steele]

96. And even if it doesn't NOW, wait till it's been on the market 2 or 3 weeks.

Ya just KNOW all the young gadget-tinkerers are gonna be
racing each other to see who can make it do "unofficial"
things, and that's just gotta be one of the first things
on their list.

[eleny]

22. Yes to Wifi

from the web page: http://www.apple.com/iphone/internet/
"iPhone is fully multi-tasking, so you can read a web page while downloading your email in the background over Wi-Fi or EDGE."

[evlbstrd]

24. It uses WiFi and Bluetooth.

So, there ya go.

[Lance_Boyle]

31. It can (Skype).

But you'll hafta wait 'til June, and you're limited to Cingular if you want one anytime in the next 2 years (presumably 2 years from June). Cheap it ain't, but cool? Yeah. It's cool.

[depakid]

63. I could do without the Cingular cell phone contract

Portland has free wireless around the city (and it's expanding). Basically, I'd like a device that hooked into wifi (wherever it might be) and allowed me to call through skype.

That would be one cool feature.

[Atman]

67. Why wouldn't this device do that?

It has wifi. It has internet service.

.

[girl gone mad]

101. It does WiFi...

and it probably won't be long before you can run Skype on it.

BUT it looks like you might have to sign a 2 year contract w/ Cingular to even be able to buy one.

[negativenihil]

5. it's $600!

...and people though i was a little crazy springing for a $500 ps3.

(fyi - i am a lifelong apple fan. don't even try flaming me :P )

[Little Wing]

37. 600 ?

F that.

I still want one, but it's going to be a thief's wet dream

[Atman]

39. Actually, $500 - apparently $800 if you're a Certifiable Underground member

And my son's last Sony Errikson phone with all the crap cost him $500 and it did pretty much nothing.

Kwitcherbitchen. Wait two years then, and be proud of yourself for not giving in.

Me? My cell phone plan with Cingular ends this month, meaning I can upgrade my phone for cheap. Now I just have to see how "cheap" an upgrade to this thing will be!

BTW...Certifiable Underground lurkers...this has nothing to do with my dead tv, or some hatred of technology. LOL! What douchebags! I'm like Mr. Tech Toys, I just don't like television and I like being told what type of tv I must buy even less. The government, afaik, is not mandating ANYONE buy an iPhone or switch to Cingular. Are you people just trying to out-stupid each other???

.

[negativenihil]

44. there are 2 models

one for $500, and one for $600.

http://weblog.infoworld.com/enterprisemac/archives/2007/01/iphone_final_de.html

"iPhone final details: Price is $499 for 4 GB, 8 GB $599"

[northzax]

117. no discounts, I bet

or rebates. Apple doesn't discount. it's their shtick.

[Deja Q]

65. A Smartphone/PDA costs less than that.

And I'd rather spend a few minutes customizing it than to let somebody else do all the dirty work.

I won't flame you -- I'm just shocked at how much this so-called "revolutionary device" costs.

[Atman]

71. Yeah, that's what iRiver users say to rationalize not getting an iPod

Man, like Apple makes you do it their way...my pda can be customized to use different fonts, man! And wallpaper!

Meanwhile, they're spending half a day customizing their pda's, which still don't work afterwards.

Apple is #1 at what they do for a reason.

BTW...they also announced that they dropped "Computer" from their official name. It's now just Apple, Inc.

.

[Omphaloskepsis]

118. The 10gig iPod was 499$ when it launched..

The iPod still did alright.

[tridim]

7. Hamburger earmuffs! n/t

[BushOut06]

10. Can we use it to access DU?

That would make it worth getting.

[Atman]

13. YES!

It has a REAL web interface. No fakie cell-phone web pages, you can browse actual web pages as they were designed. It has a soft keyboard that anticipates spelling and finishes text for you.

.

[alfredo]

19. It runs OSX also. I like that it knows if it is being held

in portrait or landscape and adjusts movies and images accordingly.

[NYCGirl]

14. Indeed you could. It has a full web browser (Safari).

http://www.apple.com/iphone/internet/

[lies and propaganda]

12. i cant freaking wait!

i abhor my cingular but i will stick to it for this baby.

[Cruzan]

15. Only works with Cingular

So be sure you're in their coverage.

[leveymg]

17. Oh goody. Another $600 gadget to replace 3 other $600 gadgets

Betya it was never so easy to rack up another couple dollars in download fees each month. Now you can spend your $.99 per song just about anywhere, anytime.:party:

There'll be some interesting viruses for this one, too. How about one that wipes out your play list, so you have to pay to download your tunes again? :evilgrin: :party:

[Atman]

21. There's one of you at every party!

This is an APPLE device...you seem to be thinking of Windows...

.

[Poiuyt]

25. No viruses on Mac OSX

[Atman]

32. Windoze people don't understand

They think it's because no one writes for Mac. But it's because of the fucked up Windoze OS, which practically INVITES viruses in, and serves them coffee and makes them right at home.

OSX is not Windows with different icons. They're different from the ground up. OSX won't allow the type of bullshit to happen that Windows does. It's just fact. It is a well-designed OS, with consideration of how viruses work designed into it, while MS's only goal was to get into every computer in the world, regardless of how big a piece of shit they were selling.

.

[leveymg]

No Mac OSX viruses, huh? Look at this>

11.21.2006 News
http://www.securemac.com/

Mac OS X Apple UDIF Disk Image Kernel Memory Corruption is an advisory and proof of concept exploit that demonstrates a bug in Mac OS X com.apple.AppleDiskImageController. The controller fails to properly handle currupted DMG images leading to an exploitable memory curruption condition with potential kernel-mode arbitrary code execution by unprivileged users.

11.11.2006 News
Intego VirusBarrier X4 Definition Bypass Exploit covers an issue discovered by Kevin Finisterre that would render the anti-virus software incapable of detecting viruses. This could lead an attacker to an attacker compromising the computer further. Intego has been advised and have provided a fix.

10.25.2006 News
The Openbase application included with Apple Xcode has been proven prone to multiple privilege escalating issues discovered by Kevin Finisterre. It was discovered that a local attacker can exploit the issue to gain superuser privileges. The issue affects Apple Xcode 2.2 and earlier. Read full report.

10.17.2006 News
Virus Infected iPods - Apple announced that a small number of iPods shipped with Windows Virus on them. Those Video iPods available for purchase after September 12th 2006 contained the windows virus RavMonE.exe. Users who connect these infected iPods to their Windows computers (including Bootcamp) should run antivirus software and wipe the iPod restoring the software.

[Atman]

60. "PROOF OF CONCEPT."

Again though, your bold type...who was infected? Why couldn't that Win virus infect Mac users? They're all the same iPods.

A "Proof of Concept" virus is a joke. That means that some geek stood on his head while facing mecca and booting his Mac while his big toe was in the printer port and his left pinky was immersed in a can of Jolt Cola at precisely 37 degrees. Oh, while the moon was exactly 3/8 full, and Steve Jobs' turtleneck was at the cleaners.

In concept, there's a risk. In reality...well, you just stick with Windows. I'm a happy Mac user who has never, ever, since my Mac II in 1987, experienced a virus.

.

[leveymg]

75. No argument about the relative threat. But, there are Mac viruses, and

with these universal I-pod communicator thingies, the situation is bound to get far worse than it is today.

Sorry to be the one who says it, but there's a cloud in the silver lining. Here's more on Mac OS viruses:

Kaspersky Lab has written an article titled Malware Evolution: Mac OS X Vulnerabilities 2005-2006.

5.24.2006 News
Xcode 2.3 has been released due to a xcode security advisory (apple APPLE-SA-2006-05-23). The impact of the security issue would allow remote attackers to obtain or modify WebObjects projecs while Xcode is running. Security Focus Advisory.

4.19.2006 News
Symantec's LiveUpdate for Macintosh does not set execution path environments allowing non-privledged users to change the path opening up potential to trojan horse attacks. Symantec has released a LiveUpdate Vulnerability Report with patch and information for the issue.

4.18.2006 News
SecureMac is pleased to announce the release of MacScan 2.1, a major update to its anti-spyware program. MacScan 2.1 has been totally revamped and is now a Universal Application, which will run natively on both Intel and PowerPC-based Macintosh Computers.

2.27.2006 News
Recent security articles of interest are as follows. Spreading Security Awareness for OS X. And Cyberthieves silently copy keystrokes. With the recent worms for OS X security issues for the OS will be focused on in the news. Submit all news and information to [e-mail]

2.16.2006 News
Mac OS X Virus Alert - Sophos Anti Virus has found the first 'real virus' for Mac OS X known as OSX/Leap-A or OSX/Oompa-A. The OSX/Leap worm or trojan is spread via instant messenger forwarding itself as a file named 'latestpics.tgz'. When launched the worm attempts to spread via iChat sending itself to the users buddy list. The application will also try to infect the recently used applications.

[Squeegee]

249. exploit != virus != worm

5.24.2006 News
Xcode 2.3 has been released due to a xcode security advisory (apple APPLE-SA-2006-05-23). The impact of the security issue would allow remote attackers to obtain or modify WebObjects projects while Xcode is running. Security Focus Advisory.


This is not a virus, this is a potential exploit. A virus could use this exploit in some manner to damage WebObject projects within the Xcode IDE, but so far none have. BTW, Xcode is not installed by default on Macs.


4.19.2006 News
Symantec's LiveUpdate for Macintosh does not set execution path environments allowing non-privileged users to change the path opening up potential to trojan horse attacks. Symantec has released a LiveUpdate Vulnerability Report with patch and information for the issue.


Again, not a virus, merely a potential exploit for attack, this one being in Symantec's LiveUpdate application which I assume updates their own Anti-Virus program. Kind of ironic that a virus checker is a potential vector for an attack, but since no one really needs or uses virus checkers on OS X, this exploit has nearly zero chance of ever being used by hackers.


4.18.2006 News
SecureMac is pleased to announce the release of MacScan 2.1, a major update to its anti-spyware program. MacScan 2.1 has been totally revamped and is now a Universal Application, which will run natively on both Intel and PowerPC-based Macintosh Computers.


This isn't even an advisory, merely an advertisement.


2.27.2006 News
Recent security articles of interest are as follows. Spreading Security Awareness for OS X. And Cyberthieves silently copy keystrokes. With the recent worms for OS X security issues for the OS will be focused on in the news. Submit all news and information to [e-mail]


This is the first real threat, it is a security exploit useful to malware and adware (should they ever get onto your system) but it is not a virus.


2.16.2006 News
Mac OS X Virus Alert - Sophos Anti Virus has found the first 'real virus' for Mac OS X known as OSX/Leap-A or OSX/Oompa-A. The OSX/Leap worm or trojan is spread via instant messenger forwarding itself as a file named 'latestpics.tgz'. When launched the worm attempts to spread via iChat sending itself to the users buddy list. The application will also try to infect the recently used applications.


This is technically not a virus, rather a trojan horse or a worm that requires a user to knowingly open the file before it can spread.

[Deja Q]

73. I understand lots of things.

And from what I'm reading, the zealots at the opposite corner of the proverbial boxing ring are a bit wet around the proverbial ears too. :7

Also remember: OS X came from FreeBSD. The folks who made FreeBSD get the real credit for the groundwork of a stable, reliable OS. Apple just souped it up and made it easier for the end user. Linux distros will be next (Ubuntu, SuSE, et al) and they are 100% free.

Rather like how Apple gets heralded for inventing the GUI in the first place - which is inaccurate. They saw Xerox's invention and found how to market it. Big difference from inventing and theorizing where it could be put to best use.

[Deja Q]

70. *sigh* - appreciate this incontrovertible truth:

NO platform is immune to virii. Not even Linux. Or FreeBSD (which is the core of OS X...)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=macintosh+trojan&spell=1
and
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=macintosh+zero+day+virus&btnG=Search

This doesn't mean Apple doesn't care (Microsoft welcomes such vermin with open arms), but no platform is immune. Don't allow yourself a sense of false security.

Apple cannot continue selling to the dumb and/or the indolent and/or people who have lots more money to spend for the same hardware. Especially once (or if) Macs become more popular; assuming the way of thin client/SAAS doesn't get there first.

[Atman]

72. Nice in theory...

In practice, I've used Macs since the Mac II in 1987. NEVER, EVER had a virus.

.

[Deja Q]

76. I've used Windows since 1987... neither have I.

In practice and in real, production operation too.

Virii, et al, has as much, if not more to do with tricking an end user as it is covertly breaking through a firewall or loopholes in OS code. I am not denying OS X and Linux are less vulnerable due to a better design construction; but that doesn't make them immune. And the weakest link is always the most important one in the chain. And the weakest link always happens to be human nature. That's where the very wealthy and the very stupid have the same thing in common: Human nature. One just knows how to manipulate it and the other knows how to be manipulated by it.

[Occulus]

111. I think popularity is the key to who gets targeted by virus writers

That, and there are a lot of black hats out there who just see Micro$oft as a convenient target. Both linux and OSX are too secure to easily (and visibly) exploit. No, they are NOT invulnerable, but (at least in the case of linux) the software's source is available, and if it's not it's for a business reason. If it's still not available, while claiming neither of these situations, it shouldn't be compiled on your system and it definitely shouldn't be executed.

Window$ has no such verifiable code. Nearly every oft-used executable- the M$ Office suite, for example- has its source under lock and key, which allows vulnerabilities to not be exposed by clever or knowledgable users legitimately searching for problems or fixing obvious bugs. OpenOffice, a free and comparable package available for multiple platforms, has its source code publicly available.

Being able to 'open the hood' is both a time-honored tradition and a security necessity. This is the true reason why Window$ is so very vulnerable to viruses: the code is closed source, and we have to depend upon Micro$oft to fix the holes in its swiss cheese. There are many out there not employed by Micro$oft who would be ecstatic to receive publicly the Window$ code, if for no other reason than to fix their pet 'annoyingest bug', who can't because of Micro$oft.

This is why open source software is the only truly secure solution; with the source being open, the public- made up of probably a couple thousand years' worth of experience collectively- could vet the software. Micro$oft refuses to open its source entirely, directlymaking our computers vulnerable to unforseen and undetected attacks.

To be honest, I'dlike to see Congress force all source open. Pass an Act of Congress. All software, essentially, represents a virtual machine, and we ought to be able to take all machines apart, collectively: all of us. We deserve to know what our computers are doing in their code, in the background, possibly without our knowledge or consent. We deserve to be able to know that wemight be running some suspect code. Only open source software can guarantee that.

[Atman]

198. But you'd be wrong

For the thousandth time...the OS's are just structured differently. MS puts out virtual welcome mats for hackers. Apple designed double steel doors into their OS. Just a different way of thinking. It has nothing to do with "popularity." It has everything to do with shitty software design.

.

[Occulus]

283. Well, that too... it IS a pile of swiss cheese

but it's used in so many places that the cheese is almost everywhere.

[Occulus]

81. OS has at its core a kernel

based on BSD. Viruses are thus a little less likely than they are on Window$.

(I also run Fedora Core 5 (soon to be 6) on the same partition as my Window$ installation. This afternoon, I plan on installing FC6 and then NWN and UT2K4. Linux has become easier and more capable then most people think; I urge everyone reading this to burn an .iso of Ubuntu or another live linux distribution, as it runs in full from the CD and installs nothing. All you have to do is use a CD burning program to write the .iso to disk. It's a great intro to what linux is, and linux and OSX are closely linked through BSD.)

I'm thinking my next new computer might be a Mac, just because a) I've never owned one and b) I can then compare all the most popular OSes and make my own decision. I'm suspecting there's not much more on the Mac from a software standpoint (including gaming!) that can't be done in linux, though, and if I find that to be the case, I'll just sell the Mac and go on as I have. From what I've seen of Apple's latest products (including the iPhone, which actually makes me want what I call a digital leash), though, I'll likely enjoy using it enough to keep it around.

[crispini]

18. As usual, Apple wins.

Damn! This is some GOOD user interface design!

[crispini]

23. Hahahaha, the web browser demo has the NY Times headline,

about Democrats Take Control of Congress. :rofl:

[NYCGirl]

26. And Al Gore is on Steve Jobs' phone contact list! (As NYC Liberal — no relation —

pointed out in the thread below.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x3076099

[parasim]

40. Not only that...

but check out the animation on Apple's site and see the story that is depicted on the NYTimes website:



http://www.apple.com/iphone/internet/

[NYCGirl]

43. LOL! I love Apple! NT

[liberalpragmatist]

83. Isn't Gore on Apple's Board?

I'm pretty sure I read that he is.

[NYCGirl]

86. Yes, he is.

http://www.apple.com/pr/bios/gore.html

[Bluebear]

27. So who is the cell phone company, Apple itself?

It looks tres cool!

[crispini]

29. Cingular!

I'm sorry, I'm gonna be first on my block to get one. this thing ROCKS THE HOUSE!

[Bluebear]

33. The design looks like an instant inductee to some design museum already!

Drool!

[Deja Q]

77. As long as it doesn't get scratched, nano nano!

:rofl:

[soothsayer]

28. I just set up my Treo 700wx to get my cable tv channels, hee hee

hee! (Laptop gets them, too, anywhere in the world that I am, as long as I'm on the internet.) Very cool! Now when I visit my friend who just gets over-the-air channels---or I'm out in the yard or something--- I can watch all my fave shows on my phone or laptop! Highly cool.

The treo does pretty well with internet pages, too, tho it can't do EVERYTHING you could really do on the internet.

This iphone phone looks pretty groovy, too, I must say!

[mod mom]

30. a functional work of art-as expected.

[B Calm]

34. If you can't watch video on it, it's already outdated!

[Atman]

35. Keep your ZUNE then.

:rofl:

.

[NYCGirl]

36. You can watch video — full screen — it has no buttons.

http://www.apple.com/iphone/ipod/

[B Calm]

132. Trust me, it'll be outdated in two months! Will it be high definition?

[Atman]

148. EVERYTHING is outdated in two months.

So just wait for another two months...and then buy nothing, because something new will be out in two months.

How's your eight-track holding up?

.

[nolabels]

246. I'm still using my Zon-a-phone

http://cgi.ebay.de/RARE-ANTIQUE-ORIGINAL-ZON-O-PHONE-PHONOGRAPH_W0QQitemZ180070923757QQihZ008QQcategoryZ1442QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

[crispini]

38. Sure you can watch video on it.

Didn't you watch the demo? :shrug: Or are you talking about live streaming video? Won't be much good until US carriers upgrade their networks.

[soothsayer]

48. basic cable on my phone works AMAZINGLY well over sprint's

network! Just loving it to pieces!

[originalpckelly]

45. Of course, I still have one question, even though I think it's really cool...

how easy it is really? Apple's know for things that just work, will this be that simple?

[NYCGirl]

49. Watch Jobs' keynote, or just check out the flash animations on the site.

It sure looks simple to use. That's the thing I love about Apple products; they're intuitive.

[judaspriestess]

47. Nice, I have a treo

and I hate it.

[soothsayer]

91. Why do you hate it? I just taught mine to get cable tv, and I love it

now!

[huskerlaw]

50. Oh. My. God.

It's so pretty!

I just ventured over to apple.com and was literally sitting here with my mouth hanging open.

But why must it be Cingular? WHY?!

[Initech]

52. Finally! A *real* reason to ditch Verizon!

This baby is mine!

[ixion]

53. that's a sweet UI

very tempting to dump my Sprint account when it comes around next time...

[seriousstan]

55. What size television could you get for the same price?

[originalpckelly]

56. Can you take that TV with you?

:shrug:

[arcos]

69. and can you call? and can you browse the web? and can you take pictures? nt

[Atman]

64. What stereo, computer, phone AND dvd player could you get for the same $

that you can carry in your pocket?

.

[Deja Q]

79. Television dumbs people down, or so I am told often enough.

Why are we praising Apple for making dumbing down portable? Giving corporate execs and fellow shills another reason to piss on the American public, a lot of which is NOT lazy or stupid?

[AlCzervik]

80. we like apple thats why.

[NYCGirl]

82. Some of us here like both television and technology. And we're STILL Liberals!

Imagine that!

[Atman]

88. You mean, you don't live in a teepee and wear a nehru jacket?

And eat tofu for every meal?

:gasp:

[NYCGirl]

93. No, and I'm an old hippie from San Francisco, too!

:hi:

[Warren DeMontague]

344. San Francisco hippies in South Bay garages *created* the computer industry.

Christ, Steve Jobs was a total acid-head.

[mondo joe]

92. You need to dress like Hester Prynne but with a scarlet TV on your chest.

:-)

[NYCGirl]

94. I guess you're right.

But I love technology and TV and movies and beautiful design and good food and fashion! I guess I'm pretty much a failure as a Liberal.

:hi:

[mondo joe]

99. Me too, on all those points.

And the fucking Puritans make me puke.

[mondo joe]

102. Oh and we haven't even talked about Apple TV yet!

[NYCGirl]

112. I like that a lot, but it won't take the place of my TiVo...yet. But it's a really

good start (or a partner for TiVo).

[Atman]

114. Tivo is dead

Haven't you been watching the news today? Cable companies include recorders in their boxes now...Tivo is struggling and probably won't survive.

.

[NYCGirl]

115. Yeah, but, like Apple, TiVo's software is far superior to other DVRs.

And mine has a built-in DVD burner, too. Also, cable companies like Comcast are leasing TiVo's software, so they'll probably survive even if they're no longer making the boxes.

Edited to add link:

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/tivo-comcast-interfacefirst-look-227203.php

[mondo joe]

90. I'm praising Apple for giving me what I want.

I like music.

I like the internet.

I like my family to be able to reach me.

[Der Blaue Engel]

97. I hear the Internets do that too

:eyes:

[rman]

332. why would you want to buy a television?

really :shrug:

[Redstone]

66. Feh. That's the last thing I want. Call me a Luddite, but the only thing I want to do

with my cellphone is talk to Mrs R (she's the only one who knows the number).

Redstone

[NYCGirl]

68. You're a Luddite.

:evilgrin:

Happy now?

[Redstone]

104. Somebody's got to do it.

Redstone

[WinkyDink]

269. Neo-Luddite here. No cell-phone, no iPod, no mp3 player, nada but a

computer and a TV.

[PreacherCasey]

84. "I'm gonna put a hole in my TV set cause I don't wanna grow up"

[xultar]

87. It's EDGE people. Come on. It isn't worth it unitl they have a HSDPA broadband phone.

[ReadTomPaine]

89. Very nice device, if a touch large. n/t

[Der Blaue Engel]

100. Holy crap

I can no longer access the Apple website on my PC due to a QuickTime incompatability. What kind of POS laptop am I working on??? (It's not mine; it's the work laptop.) :mad:

Oh, and HOLY CRAP, I want that iPhone!!! :D

[tridim]

107. I had to install iTunes to get QT working on my PC

Might be worth a try.

[sammythecat]

105. I hate cell phones.

I hate all these little devices that seem to isolate people from one another. I'm tired of going into the breakroom at work and seeing 6 or 7 people there, and every one of them totally involved with their cell phones. And I'm talking 3:00AM! Who needs real live interpersonal relationships?
I'm Tired of being forced to listen to some asshole carry on half a worthless conversation while in a retaurant or at a check out counter.
Tired of having conversations interrupted by phone calls.
Tired of the rudeness and lack of manners that seem to come packaged with these things.
Tired of hearing how peoples lives simply couldn't continue without these things.
Tired of being in a restroom while someone is in a stall communicating with a colleague and shitting at the same time.

I have one of the damn things but I still hate it. :banghead:

[entanglement]

251. True. Every new gadget seems to make people more rude and self-involved.

n/t

[tridim]

106. All cellphones suck..

I had one for a year, and couldn't wait to get rid of it. Here's a clue for the cellphone industry.. FIX THE GAWD DAMNED INFRASTRUCTURE! No matter how much they dress up the interface and add features, the cellphone networks still suck major ass.

I can't wait for the day where I can talk to someone on the phone without saying, "Hello, hello? Are you there?" It happens almost every day.

Now, as for this specific cellphone. Sure it looks cool, most Apple products do because they employ great industrial designers, but is it worth $600? Not even close. Is it really a new idea? Not even close. Will people buy it? Sure, Apple fans will buy pretty much anything Apple sells. Always have, always will. It's been that way since the late 70's. :)

[mondo joe]

121. The fault in not in our cellphones but in our users.

I never have any problem saying "Hello, hello? Are you there?"

Or if I do it happens so rarely that I can't remember it.

As to Apple, its products sell far outside the Apple fan base - look at the iPod's market share.

[tridim]

124. My work contacts are usually on the road

That's where the problem exists. It drives me nuts.

As for the iPod, I believe it's popularity is the result of the massive marketing effort on launch. No doubt that Apple are masters at marketing their products. It certainly can't be a result of features and price, because the iPod has been handily beat in both categories since the first day it went on sale.

The iPod is cute, sleek and something that others want to steal from you. Bam! Hit product. :)

[Atman]

127. You don't own an iPod

It's obvious. It has nothing to do with marketing. My FIRST mp3 player was a Rio 500, thank you very much. Although I've been an Apple user since the Mac II in 1987. But the iPod...it IS different. Non-iPod users, and Apple haters, and contrarians, don't understand it. It isn't APPLE. It isn't marketing. It is the fucking DESIGN. The UI. It is so freaking brilliant and easy to use...no other manufacturer has been able to come close, no matter how hard they've tried. No one.

Use an iPod for a week (without your "I hate Apple" blinders on) and you'll get it.

.

[tridim]

131. I used my brother's iPod in several week-long chunks

I have no problem with the iPod, especially if it existed in a market vacuum. It's a decent product, but not something I'd buy for myself. My main problem with it is the below-average price/feature ratio. That's been my problem with ALL Apple products going all the way back to 1979.

[mondo joe]

139. But dude, you think all cellphones suck too.

Some discernment might be in order. :-)

[Atman]

169. I call bullshit on him anyway

I have never, ever, ever heard any Apple employee, let alone a member of the OS development team, dis Apple products like that. Never. I don't believe you for a second.

.

[Atman]

151. In other words, you know nothing about Apple products.

You don't actually use any, you just borrow your brother's iPod every now and then.

If you actually USE the products you claim to dislike, you might not dislike them so much.

.

[tridim]

154. If you don't count the three years I worked on OS-X,

the four years I maintained a 90% Mac based office, the five years in college using various Macs for architecture and the years of Apple II training in grade school then yes, I know nothing about Apple products.

Of course I also never said I disliked Apple products, I just think they cost too much.

[NashVegas]

163. Nor Do I

And I know what you mean about Apple's design interfaces.

If you must have the latest gadgets, this would be a good one to have, ie, if you're going to spend the money anyway, may as well consolidate.

I don't own an mp3 player - don't need it. Don't own a portable movie player - don't need it. Don't have a cell phone - don't need it. And it just seems ridiculous, to me, to spend an entire week's paycheck on an item I don't need.

[Atman]

165. None of us NEED it.

All of us WANT it.

Even those posters pretending they don't.

.

[NashVegas]

170. Well, If Santa

Slipped one in my stocking, I wouldn't complain. But no, I wouldn't go out of my way.

[Atman]

125. No, no, Apple only sells to Apple "fan"atics!

Don't you read the "I hate Apple" blogs?

.

[Solon]

109. Looks uncomfortable to use as a phone without using a headset...

Also, 600 bucks, and only available with Cingular 2 year contract? Forget that, I'll wait till its 200 with no signing involved in the purchase.

[Atman]

116. Everyone else will have moved on to holograms and telepathy by then

But you stand your ground, dammit! Don't let 'em push you around!

.

[Solon]

123. Its called living within a budget...

I only get loans for cars, not cellphones, I know some folks are so rich they can't conceive this, but most folks can't afford stuff like this.

[Atman]

128. But you said your complaint was the size and the contract terms...

What does that have to do with the price of the unit? "So rich..." I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination. But I have several "rich" friends who've spent fortunes on repairs and shop time for their Windows machines. I've never once since 1987 ever had to send any of my Apple products to the shop. Ever. So who has spent more money, ultimately?

And who is "most folks?" You, because you don't like iPods price point?

Hmmm.

.

[Solon]

135. First, I did complain about 600 bucks for this device...

As far as your friends' sending computers to SHOPS to fix, for crying out loud, they are dumb. Also, contracts I'm leery of, as a general rule, let's just say I've been screwed over by many companies, banks, etc. As far as iPods, uhm, too expensive for me, a Nintendo DS and MiniSD works just as well, and is expandable and more versatile, for about the price of a Nano, even less than that, with same storage capacity, and twice the battery life.

I'm the type of person who tries to get cool stuff at the lowest possible price, right now I'm buying a new computer, or, more accurately, a new Mobo/CPU combo, I'll then use my older computer to build a MythTV box, so I'll get a PVR and an up to date computer for about 450 bucks. My budget isn't limitless, and putting down 600 bucks, more so, actually, with a 2 year contract, for a single device, is insane.

[Atman]

141. Yeah, but I'm doing an RfPViz with VIdtech ZR7, and my Whamajamma...

...needs a new ding dong! Beside that, I've got a custom Frognal ZX in my franastan. So all you people who take your computers to the shop when they need repairs...you've got shnarvus in you froozbuts!

Uh, dude...some people aren't geeks.

.

[mondo joe]

140. Rich bullshit.

People spend based on their priorities.

I know people who live on the cheapest food possible but spend like kings on their technology.

I know young women at work not making very much who must spend twice that amount on shoes every year.

"Most folks" can't spend like crazy on every thing - but they can spend on some things.

[Solon]

146. Most people I know consider buying a TV costing over 300 bucks a "big purchase"...

that is done only once a decade, or for however long the TV lasts and drive 20 year old cars, mostly compacts.

[mondo joe]

157. Maybe you need to expand your circle.

People spend a lot of money in a lot of ways.

[Solon]

158. Thanks, but no thanks, insufferable, upper-class assholes don't make good friends.

No offense.

[Atman]

164. Offense taken.

People who spend $300 are "insufferable, upper-class assholes"?!!

Wow. I see why you have don't expand your circle of friends. Who'd want you?

.

[Solon]

171. I'm not the one who is condencending to those who CAN'T afford this product...

After all, we ALL want it, don't we? Talk about living up to what you are called.

[mondo joe]

173. No, you're condescending toward others.

And you ignored the whole point - people make choices about where they spend.

It's easy to see others' choices as excessive.

[Solon]

183. Actually, I was bitching about the PRICE of the item, at first...

but since I insulted Your Favorite Company(TM), you guys get all defensive and shit, I actually find it amusing, in a strange way, Microsoft and Apple fanboys deserve each other.

[mondo joe]

187. Why bitch about the price of it? You think it's priced just to exclude you?

Nothing to do with being a fanboy.

Just poking holes in the idiocy of someone with a chip on a shoulder.

[onenote]

302. what did you think of the price of a vcr when it first came out?

My first VCR cost $800. Now i can buy one for $30. My first DVD player cost less, but still several hundred. I just bought one for my dad for $29.99

Yeah, for a lot of people $600 is a lot -- maybe too much given their priorities. But it doesn't make the price, or the product, bad.

[Atman]

177. But you never said you couldn't afford it...you said those who COULD are...

"insufferable, upper-class assholes."

Come on, pal. Get a grip.

.

[mondo joe]

172. It's not an issue of class but if ignorance.

Namely, yours.

Maybe you should open your spending to see what others decide is excessive or wasteful.

For some it's pet supplies. For some it's an iPod. For others it's shoes.

It's easy to someone else's spending as excessive.

[Solon]

175. I'm not objecting to buying the damned thing, I just think its too expensive...

for what it delivers. That, and the condescending attitudes displayed by you and Atman, seriously guys, us "lower classes" would love AFFORDABLE gadgets.

[mondo joe]

178. The condescending attitude is only your own.

You've decided that people who spend in ways you don't are rich.

It's bullshit.

I can think of plenty of people who were anything but rich but spent in different ways.

You need to be more open to the idea that other people have other priorities.

[Atman]

179. WTF? I never mentioned "classes!"

YOU did, dude! YOU called people who buy things they can afford "insufferable, upper-class assholes!" How dare you call ME condescending! You don't even know me!

.

[Solon]

182. Then what the fuck is with the Walkman and Zune snarks?

If not condescending or classist, then what the fuck is it?

[mondo joe]

184. How the fuck could a zune snark be classist? It costs as fucking much as

an iPod anyway!

[Solon]

186. True, they are both overpriced pieces of shit, my bad! n/t

[mondo joe]

189. Make sure to submit your detailed spending so others can decide how you

waste money.

Thanks!

[Solon]

191. I said they were overpriced POSes, I don't really care about others' spending habits...

I just hate things that are overpriced for what they deliver, period. I also hate, in general, all-in-one devices, which seem to have a bad habit of being a jack of all trades, but a master at none, so end up being mediocre devices by default. But seriously, there is a love fest right now for a device that hasn't even been reviewed by impartial folks yet. I also hate buying things with strings attached, like 2 years required Cingular service, or BS like that, to be honest, I think shit like that should be illegal. If I'm buying something, I should be able to use it however I like, this takes away choice, which is bullshit in my book.

[mondo joe]

194. You don't have to buy cingu-fucking-lar service.

If you don't want it, just pay full fucking price for the thing.

You're some fucking champion of choice all right. :eyes:

[Solon]

205. Yeah, If I'm willing to shell out 800 bucks for it, without the plan...

some choice. That's damned near half what I paid for my car.

[Atman]

209. Have you been reading CU again?

That's the only other place I've seen $800 mentioned. The price points are $499 and $599, roughly the price of the first iPods.

Christ, by this time tomorrow you guys will be saying its costs $3500!

.

[Solon]

220. First, I'll say it is speculation, but within range of most "smartphones" of this type...

The phone is 599(8 gig version) with the Cingular plan, so I would expect that the one that isn't tied to the plan will be about 200 to 250 dollars more in price. Then again, I already said I don't like "all in one" devices in general, so you can imagine my criticism of smartphones of any sort.

[mondo joe]

226. You want the choice, baby.

If you want Cingular to discount your phone, buy their plan.

Or better yet, don't buy it at all.

[Atman]

196. You can buy a 1 year contract. Or none at all. You have ALL the choice.

There is no gun to your head. It's just a matter of how much you're willing to spend.

But Salon, you really are missing it here. "Jack of all trades, master of none?" This isn't a $69 Scanner/Printer/Copier. Apple has a track record which speaks for itself (the Cube notwithstanding). The reason we're quakin' over this, before any "reviews," is because it would be like waiting for a review of any product you've known and loved for years. Every iteration has been better than the previous. What do think, Apple decided that with THIS device they'll go backward and make it a cheap crappy POS? You're talking entirely from emotion with no logic attached to your words.

Why don't you just admit you're a contrarian and hate Apple? You'd save some bandwidth.

.

[Solon]

200. How do you hate an impersonal corporate entity?

As far as Corporations in general, I view them, all of them, as necessary evils that need to be scrutinized closely by government. I don't trust nor like them, with good reason, they are, after all, amoral. I can't really expend much emotion to them, but that doesn't mean I can't criticize them as well.

[Atman]

201. You tell me!

I'm not the one on the "hate" side here, remember?

.

[Solon]

203. Because I don't like the price/scam, I must "hate" them?

OK, my next question is what the hell are you smoking?

[Atman]

207. Nothing...your posts get me dizzy enough as it is!

"You're just a beautiful fish
flopping in the summer sand
looking for a wave you missed
when another one is close at hand..."

You've done nothing but rail on about the terrible Apple, and now say it's all because of simply price and features. I'm smokin' nothin' cuz you keep bogarting the doob!

.

[Solon]

208. Actually, if you noticed, I said nothing about Apple the company...

I was ragging on this particular product, so I don't see where the hate is coming from, I think you are being oversensitive.

[mondo joe]

237. I wish you'd decide what's bothering you.

You claim to not like the device, then you complain that it's priced out of reach.

[druidity33]

259. hey watch it buddy! I loved my cube! n/t

[aquart]

356. They seriously don't get people with too little to allocate choices.

It's clear that they don't think their incomes are anything to get excited about. They don't realize how many people survive at a very different level.

Partly lack of imagination, partly lack of experience. I always get a kick out of the way DUers assume everyone has cable.

[siligut]

296. Not that I am going to wait.

Looks good and all, but holograms and telepathy, that is going to rock!

[onehandle]

379. Uh...Bluetooth headset?

Pretty sure they'll work with the iPhone.

[SoCalDem]

119. It's cute., but I'm a Luddite and would still have my old kitchen wallphone from Bell

for $9 a month with free service,IF I could get it :)


We still have 2 phones with cords :)

and I gripe every month at my $40 phone bill for NOTHING:(

[jsamuel]

120. My request would be to make it a 4.5" screen with a resolution of 852 x 480

and make the hdd have at least 20GB

now for the futuristic fantasy, make it with a screen that can be enlarged on demand to the size of a normal computer screen

[buzzard]

122. I am a long time mac user, I don't have a cell phone or IPod but this is appealing.n/t

[Little Wing]

126. I'm 20 minutes into the iPhone presentation

It's just beautiful :cry:

[Phrogman]

133. Ahhhh, consumer fetishism running amok!

and it doesn't even have a GPS.

Come on folks, its a piece of plastic and tin.

[mondo joe]

143. Yeah - we shouldn't like toys or anything.

Puritanism is not exclusive to the conservatives. :eyes:

[Atman]

145. Enjoy your Walkman

Keep telling yourself...it's trash...I LIKE cassette tapes...it's trash...I LIKE cassette tapes...it's trash...I LIKE cassette tapes...it's trash...I LIKE cassette tapes...

[Raine]

134. I don't want so much stuff all in one

my cell phone already has too much stuff on it...blue tooth, IM etc. :banghead: I would be happy if the one I have now was like the one I had before which was just for phoning and nothing else, I miss my old one. *sigh* :-(

[mondo joe]

142. On the other hand, I have a cell, a PDA and an iPod.

All in one would be pretty sweet.

[Atman]

147. Same here...I walk out of the house with an armload of 'gadgets'

Cell phone, iPod, laptop, on and on.

I love the iPhone.

I will buy one.

"Simpler" doesn't necessarily mean using NOTHING. Sometimes it means using one good thing which make your LIFE simpler.

Buggies are "simpler" than automobiles. Who among us is still driving a horse drawn carriage to work?



.

[onenote]

303. then I suggest you don't buy one.

And for those who do want so much stuff in one, I suggest that they do.

Isn't choice wonderful?

[frylock]

136. who even keeps a mobile phone past 2 or 3 years?

No thanks. I'll keep my Zen Micro and continue to change my phone when it becomes obsolete.

[Atman]

149. ME! (and I actually like my LG phone!)

I'm at the end of a two-year Cingular contract. It ends THIS MONTH, just as this thing is announced.

I'm a happy camper, man!

.

[AlCzervik]

152. it's me, i'm the one. I finally bought a new cell phone after having my old

1 for five years but at the time it was a pretty cool little flip phone. i bought blue katana and i love it.

[pinniped]

137. Or, in five years the M$ ZunePhone is expected to be announced.

.

[Atman]

150. I hear it will be able to play animated gifs!

MS is sooo ahead of the curve!

.

[PVnRT]

153. My word, Apple people are thin-skinned

It's a fucking company. Get a grip.

[MindMatter]

155. More hooey from mac bigots, I guess

Why is it that Mac people seem to think nothing is invented until Apple does it?

I have been using a QTEK 9100 PDA for 18 months that does everything I've heard attributed to this Apple "breakthrough".

phone? Yeah
MP3? yeah.
voice recorder? yeah
Real web pages on a real web browser? Yeah. Edge network or wifi, as you wish.
videos? yeah
Touch screen? Yeah and a full keyboard if that's what you want

And it isn't tied to Cingular. You can use it with any major network -- WITHOUT canceling your contract.

Wake up folks. Apple isn't the only company out there. If anything, they are years behind the pack.

[Atman]

160. How much did it cost? What does it cost to maintain?

I notice you left that out...most of the complaints here aren't about Apple, they're about the price point...so, how much did your "breakthrough" QTEK cost?

I found one online for $529.

And it runs the Windows OS.

Case closed. Some people just hate Apple, no matter what they do.

.

[qnr]

180. Personally, I don't give a hoot about Microsoft or Apple, but how, precisely, does

that answer the question posed? If they have had it for two years 18 months before the announcement by Apple, and state that, it's not Apple hate, simply a statement of fact.

[Atman]

193. My point was that NO ONE has had this for ANY length of time

This is the first device with an Apple UI and Apple design. They're tops in this field for a reason. You may be perfectly happy with a clunkly Windows device covered in buttons, but seriously...look at that Qtek and look at this iPhone. Sure...both do much of the same things. Just as a Porche and an Escort both get you to the grocery store.

.

[qnr]

215. Don't assume. I've been using computers since the '70's. I've never owned a Windows device.

I don't own a Qtek. The point was that the device was available.

And it's Porsche, not Porche (I only bring it up because it's apparently something else you're "impressed" with, and therefore should treat with appropriate reverence). Apple doesn't impress me. Windows doesn't impress me.

Edit: Never owned in the sense of "not for more than a few hours" -- even my iPAQ was running Linux 50 minutes after the battery was charged.

[Atman]

217. Well my first computer was a Kaypro!

You wanna try to out-old each other?

Oh...and here's your missing ----> "S" Officer Typo.

[qnr]

219. Sorry, mine were years before the Kaypro. Hey, doesn't bother me about the "s" - you're the

one that thought they were such hot stuff, you'd think you'd at least know how to spell it.

KIM-1 (from 1976) and Atari 400 & 800 from 1979.

[MindMatter]

232. But the point remains

Every single feature I heard hyped in the media today as if it were some kind of revolution has been commonplace in the market for over a year. Not just on my QTEC, but on many devices. The only thing revolutionary about this announcement is the hype -- and after 20 years of that from Jobs, even the hype isn't very revolutionary.

I have no doubt this will be a huge success because there are so many people who treat Apple as religion.

[crispini]

247. The point being, if I may, though, is that Apple is REALLY good

at taking this stuff mainstream. Sure, the OmniGadget has been out there for awhile. One of my coworkers has one. It does everything that the Apple iPhone does. He's such a geek, he runs SQL Server on his damn phone. He also has a registry editor loaded ON HIS PHONE to tweak the damn thing -- he has to have it, for problems he encounters.

Mac will make all of that stuff hidden, and it will work beautifully, just like the iPod, and somebody like my mother, who is massively computer phobic, will be able to use it, and she will want one, and buy one as soon as she can afford it. Not because it can do everything, you're right. Because it is beautiful and easy to use.

[MindMatter]

268. Exactly

That is the whole point. It is not about technology, per se, but the mainstreaming of it. The Mac interface was not a breakthrough, or unique in any way. That was all done a decade earlier at Xerox's PARC center. Apple has always been exceptionally good at packaging and marketing to people who take pride in not being "bits and bytes" people.

The irony for me is that the Apple solutions are every bit as complicated and difficult to use as most of the others. But somehow Apple has been able to convince their followers that is not the case.

On my QTEC, I dropped in my SIM card and immediately had access to all my Cingular services without doing anything whatsoever. I did have to struggle just a little to configure EDGE access. Wifi access was absolutely effortless. I did have to upgrade my software one time early on, but since then, I have had essentially zero effort in the upkeep of that device. There is no way that the Apple device will be any more seamless than that.

But I had to look for the solution. It wasn't shoved down my throat with a billion-dollar advertising campaign.

[crispini]

276. "But I had to look for the solution."

Right on... my mom can't look, doesn't want to look. Registry editor? What's that? Why should she have to look? The difference between that generic MP3 player my dad got for my mom, and the iPod, for her, made the difference between a gadget she USED, and a gadget she could not use. That had nothing to do with core functionality and everything to do with user interface.

I disagree that Apple solutions are every bit as complicated and difficult to use as the others. I actually know THREE people with the OmniGadget I referred to above -- it's the Cingular 8525, running Windows CE. Two are uber-geeks, both with registry editors on the damn phones, and they hack them regularly. The third, a business user, not a techy geek.... she had to read the manual to figure out how to ANSWER the damn thing. :rofl: You won't see that happening with Apple's UI.

Look, I'm not an Apple syncophant by any means. I AM a user interface designer; that's my day job. Is Apple good at marketing? Why, yes. But they are also very good at design. For example, the affordance given the user by using the click wheel in the iPod -- that was a stroke of brilliance. They're also excellent at effortlessly adjusting the mode, i.e. sometimes it is fastforward, sometimes it's volume, and that's done exactly where it's needed to be. That's actually very difficult to do right, using multifunction buttons for different things. And they've really got the focus right, you know, it's not just a user interface they're designing -- they, more than any company I know, are doing top-to-bottom Interaction Design, you know, they're controlling the user experience in every interaction, from the iPod, to iTunes, to the Apple Music Store-- it's consistent, it's well done, and it's very intuitive. They make it look easy, but it's fabulously hard to do. Anyhoo. I rattle on. My point being: it's not just hype. ;)

[Atman]

280. The irony is the in industry used to say Apple was HORRIBLE at marketing

And I was one of them. Remember, Apple ads rarely ever showed the features of any product. Just a quick picture of it, maybe a close-up of the logo. Lots of people said that was part of what was holding people back, that if they'd just come out like any real advertiser would do and say "this is why my product is better," they actually might have been better strides against the Windows monopoly. But no, Apple always did fashion advertising up until the iMac era. And I disagree with the other guy about "marketing" being the cause of their success. Initially, there wasn't much advertising at all for the iPod...it was viral marketing. People saw one and wanted one...saw a friend with one, saw one on the subway, and had to check it out. It took on a life of its own. Then the hip commercials started. The iPod didn't sell all that well in its first go'round. Heck, as I said, my first player was a "top of the line" Rio 500, cost $300 and only held about an hour's worth of music! But it was pretty amazing, and I carried it with me everywhere. Then my wife gave me an iPod and that was it for me. Nothing compares. You're right, cripi...it's all about the design and ease of use.

[MindMatter]

230. It was about $500 OVER A YEAR AGO

I don't get your point. I don't hate Apple. I hate undeserved hype. Their products have never been significantly different from other products available in the marketplace, but somehow their supporters have always been blind to that fact.

[mondo joe]

256. But may of us BECAME supporters BECAUSE we think the products are

significantly different. :-)

[alfredo]

156. Steve Jobs made a crank call to a Starbucks during the

unveiling of the iPhone. He called them, ordered 4,000 latte' then hung up. It got him third place on tonight's worst person in the world.

[Atman]

161. Yeah, but KO said he'd take him off the list for some...y'know...samples.

That was great!

:rofl:

[alfredo]

211. I'm still waiting for Leopard and was let down that he didn't

give us something to chew on. I bet he is waiting for Vista to be released.

[NYCGirl]

214. Whoa! If we have to wait for Microsoft, it may be years! (Just kidding.)

The Unofficial Apple Weblog has this about possible new software:

http://www.tuaw.com/2007/01/09/is-one-more-thing-yet-to-come/

We have nothing but an anonymous tip to go on but this one comes from a slightly more reliable source than our usual tips. Then again, maybe we are giving it more clout than normal because, as thrilled as we are with today's Applegasms, we still want more. We're greedy like that.

Anyway, we've been advised to keep our eyes open for an announcement of new or updated software, perhaps before dawn. Since David is already a pro at sleeping on sidewalks outside of convention centers, we're trying to talk him into camping out in front of the Moscone again to see if he catches anyone swapping out the ad kiosk signage.

I'm still thinking iWork '07 and possibly iLife '07, although with today's hardware intros, the iLife update seems more likely for spring and/or summer to coincide with the Apple TV and iPhone ship dates. I'm still surprised that Leopard wasn't mentioned at all during the Keynote, which makes me wonder when they are letting the cat out of the bag?

Stay tuned to see if we called this one right or if we wake up with egg on our face - although the open bar tonight might cause that anyway!

And, did you see the new Apple ad about Vista?

http://www.tuaw.com/2007/01/09/apple-posts-new-get-a-mac-ad/

[alfredo]

278. The plan is to release it close to the release of the home

edition of Vista so they will either have to delay the release, or release without including slapped together clones of Leopard features.

[qnr]

159. Well, yet another product from Apple that I won't buy. n/t

[Tesha]

188. It's okay -- millions of cooler people will. (NT)

[qnr]

213. Pardon me, you made a typo. You said "cooler people" when you meant "sheeple" n/t

[Tesha]

253. You may believe whatever you wish as a justification...

You may believe whatever you wish as a justification
for having chosen a platform that is obviously defective
and promulgated by a company that obviously doesn't give
two shits about you or the overall "user experience".

If you think I made a "typo", go right on ahead believing
that.

Tesha

[qnr]

273. See, again you Apple people make assumptions. I *don't* use one of /any/ platform.

I don't need that type of crap, period. What, buy one now so I can throw it away and buy a new one in four months when they come out with the revolutionary cerise-colored housing and Post-It note holder on the back? No thanks.

A telephone should be a telephone. A PDA should be a PDA, and my PDA (which incidently uses neither Apple, Microsoft nor Palm as an OS) does everything I need. Videos, internet access, audio player, no DRM, etc.

[mondo joe]

288. "Should be"?

Why should a telephone be a separate device?

Why should I carry a separate PDA and phone?

[qnr]

291. Because, now everyone will think they're part of the "cooler people" and whole herds

of idiots that barely know where they're walking or driving will have even more reason for acting like a device is surgically attached to their ears... just because the product is there, it's trendy, and they want to say, "Hey, look at me, I'm cool. My life has been validated because I succumbed to marketing hype."

If you want it, fine. Just don't tell me that you're one of the "cooler people." (Yes, I do know that you didn't make that claim originally) :hi:

[mondo joe]

295. Or maybe they're using it because they LIKE IT.

Sorry it gets your sackcloth panties in a knot.

I used to think conservatives were the Puritan descendants. :-)

[qnr]

298. Right. I've been using new technology since the 70's. I don't need someone that doesn't

know shit about me throwing words like puritan and conservative at me. Enjoy your waste of money. Try not to drive into too many other vehicles while it's glued to your hands, face and ears.

[mondo joe]

308. LOL - that's some chip on your shoulder.

Enjoy your omniscience.

[Atman]

317. LOL! I was thinking the same thing

While picturing him at home messing with the registry on his Swiss Army Communications Device, mumbling "I...don't...want...an...iPhone...I...don't...want...an...iPhone...I...don't...want...an...iPhone...I...don't...want...an...iPhone..."

[qnr]

341. And your point is? I do what I want. I could not care less about your opinion of what I do, which

is just slightly less than my lack of interest in the iPhone. Bye-bye.

[qnr]

340. It's not omniscience. I stated that I wouldn't be buying one. If you didn't want to

hear the way I felt, why ask? You asked, so you have no valid complaint about having to listen to my opinion. Bye-bye... further conversation on this subject is fruitless.

[mondo joe]

342. Isn't your omniscience how you know why everyone else does

what they do?

Or is it ESP?

[Atman]

347. Fruitless... Apple... hehehehe... I get it!

:hi:

[Telly Savalas]

162. Why don't cries of "Corporatism" ever appear in these gadget fetish threads?

Last time I checked, Steve Jobs isn't running a family business where he makes iPods in a workshop in his garage.

[Atman]

174. Actually, my son just got back from a week in Cupertino

Spent a few days on campus, and got a job offer. He told me about Steve, and him eating in the company cafeteria with the rest of the employees. Do you think the CEOs of GM or any similar mega-corp actually would be caught dead in the company cafeteria, with lowly employees around?

People love to hate Steve Jobs. It's part of his mystique.

But if he hadn't brought out the iPod, Microsoft would be selling you a $2000 shoulder mounted reel-to-reel tape player with quadraphonic headphones, and a $50/month subscription fee. And you Apple haters would be genuflecting to Gates and his awesomeness.

.

[Telly Savalas]

192. Microsoft would see it's market share for music devices

eaten up by the many other companies that offer portable mp3 players for less than $100.

My last post wasn't meant to be an anti-Apple attack. This Apple v. Microsoft shit is so childish and reminiscent of the Ford v. Chevy pick 'em up truck debate, that I'm really surprised that there isn't a cottage industry for peeing Calving stickers to place on one's laptop.

What I'm getting at is that at any given time you'll generally find one or more threads on the first page of GD which make blanket condemnations of "Corporatism", consumerism, or capitalism. But in a thread focused on the products of a corporation that generates billions in revenues annually, you don't hear any such criticism.

I'm sure that Apple is a great place to work for people like your son. (And good luck to him should he take the job.) But do you think the folks on the assembly lines in China manufacturing the products have really kick-ass dental plans and extended mat leave? Why does Apple get a free pass on this, when so many other companies don't?

And from the other end of it, why isn't somebody who buys a Nano attacked for being a "Sheeple"?

[Atman]

197. Actually, Apple doesn't get a "free pass" on this.

Do you recall when it was revealed that Apple was using a virtual slave-labor camp to manufacture iPods? It caused quite the stir here on DU. LOTS of people upset, and lots calling for total boycotts of Apple. Apple was very quick to demand changes in their manufacturing facilities. Whether they actually knew of the conditions or not, I guess we'll never know, but they DID respond.

As far as iPod users being "sheeple," I suppose one could make that argument. Unless you've actually spent some time with iPod. I've used several of players, and as I stated, I was a pretty loyal Rio user at first...until I got an iPod. If you don't own it, you just don't understand. And if you've never used an iPod connected to a Mac, you almost shouldn't be posting. I have never seen such a beautiful, seamless integration of function and design. Ever.

Again, Apple doesn't constantly win design awards just because Steve has a charming personality.

.

[crispini]

212. I'm a user interface designer.

Boy howdy, do they get it. Wish I worked there.

[Telly Savalas]

377. They were getting a free pass in this thread.

If somebody were to post a "check out this cool thing at Wal Mart" thread, there would be a lot more criticism of Wal Mart than there is of Apple in this thread.

Like I said, I'm not on an anti-Apple crusade. I'm just perplexed by the double standard. Why isn't this thread being flooded by the Naomi Klein/AdBusters crowd?

To be clear, I only have two main problems with the company:

1. Exploitation of cheap Chinese labor - even if there are no more slave camps there, you can damn well be sure that they're not making a living wage by U.S. standards. But I totally realize that in the absence of government regulations and overwhelming public pressure to encourage them to do otherwise, 99.99% of publicly traded companies are going to try to find the cheapest labor possible. So Apple shouldn't necessarily be singled out for criticism on this, but we shouldn't pretend that Steve Jobs has a halo around his head either.

2. Stock Options Backdating -- it's a sleazy practice and it was common at Apple.

I am not questioning that they make quality products. Furthermore, I am not questioning that it would be a great place (for North Americans) to work. My well-wishes for your son were sincere.

I'm just saying it's really weird that in a hotbed of anti-globalization like DU, so much reverence is paid to a key practitioner of globalization, Steve Jobs.

Moreover, I'm not arguing that iPod users are "sheeple" either. Personally, I think "sheeple" is a stupid fucking word which is why I use the scare quotes. What I'm trying to get at is that a lot of anti-consumerism seems to boil down to "consumption of products of our capitalist system is wrong, unless that product is something I think is cool."

[Warren DeMontague]

218. At least they're making portable music players, and not cluster bombs.

Shit, thank god we still have a few industries in this country that can compete in the free market on their own merits, instead of at the behest of big government welfare programs. (Read: The Military-Industrial Complex)

Oh, I'm sorry. We're all supposed to be wearing burlap undies and listening to free trade beeswax recordings of Peruvian Pan Flute Players acquired through barter. Bad, Bad, BAD Corporations! (even the good ones) I fo'got.

[Atman]

222. LOL! Great post!

Free trade beeswax! BWHAHAHAHA!

Oh, wait...gotta flip my Zamfir album, pressed from virgin recycled vinyl and played with a certified, non-blood-diamond stylus.

.

[Swamp Rat]

233. ¡te amo!

MUCHO! :rofl:

[Telly Savalas]

372. Walmart doesn't make cluster bombs either.

So I guess we should celebrate them?

If it's wrong for Wal Mart to exploit Chinese labor, it's wrong for Apple to do it too. And the stock option back-dating is sleazy even if does stay far enough in the gray area of the law that nobody gets in trouble. Apple may be innovative in a lot of ways, but there are enough black marks on their record , it should deter one from worshiping at the alter of Steve Jobs.


I'm all for a well regulated market economy, and I think with governance by people like the guy in your sig banner, we could see a system that balances economic freedom, environmental responsibility, and social justice. (Even though I'm a touch disappointed in his lack of activism within his role as a director for Apple, I realize he's a busy guy, so I'll cut him slack.)

I just think it's really weird that for all the posts we find at DU which basically echo without irony the second paragraph of your post, that this thread wasn't seeing any such responses. I suspect that many of the self-styled revolutionaries that cry "Corporatism" at everything own iPods themselves and hence are willing to create a separate set of standards for Apple, the folks who make Che Guevara t-shirts, and manufacturers of any other lifestyle accessories for the intrepid young leftist.

[rman]

333. I think we could have gadgets without Corporatism

I don't see why not.

There'd still be competition, probably more because there'd be less monopolization. There'd still be profits, just not ridiculous amounts and certainly not ridiculous amounts of personal profits.
A corporation can still have a lot of employees and know-how, but it won't be able to set the political agenda as they do now, they'd not be allowed to "self-regulate" especially not international trade, not be allowed to become more wealthy and more influential than some nations.

There'd still be demand for gadgets, probably more because more people will have more to spend. All we've got to do is switch from supply-side economics to demand-side economics. Fill up from the bottom instead of trying to make it trickle down knowing that most of it never makes it all the way.

[proud patriot]

166. a co worker's son went to this today

Sounded like a neat time ...

[qnr]

181. I bet it was fun. Me, I'd be a nervous wreck. I can't handle being around crowds. n/t

[redacted]

167. Great. What am I going to do with the BlackBerry I just bought?

Seems like a cell phone upgrade every week or two. Why bother learning all the geeky commands when the next cell phone operates differently?

[qnr]

176. Why switch? Apparently you bought it for a reason. That reason is still valid. I still use my

8-bit Atari computers all the time, and I don't care who thinks what about it.

[taught_me_patience]

190. Sweet

Now we can listen to crap and download crap while we talk about crap.

That thing is huge for a phone and I wouldn't carry it around if someone paid me to.

Every day, corporations find new ways to seperate people from their money. Actually, I'm quite glad, as I work for a corporation any my job is to find ways to help seperate people from their money.

[bullwinkle428]

195. Wait a minute...where's the camera?

:evilgrin:

[Atman]

199. Built in. Alas, only 2 megapixel...but that's enough for all but 8 x 10 portraits.

:)

[bullwinkle428]

216. Cool! I missed that in the "cover page" ad, but it's nice to see

they didn't forget that feature. Now I have to decide if I want to dump my Verizon contract early to get my hands on one of these...

[bullwinkle428]

221. Hey, one other question - do you have any familiarity with the Mac Mini?

[Atman]

224. Got one. What do you need to know?

I've got a mini, a 20" G5 iMac and a G5 tower.

.

[bullwinkle428]

239. I was wondering if you thought it was a good way to make the PC-to-Mac

transition. I'm currently using a 6-year-old Dell desktop at home running on Windows 98 and wanted to know how the Mac mini performs in comparison to a comparably-priced new PC. I like the idea of putting the money into the most "bang for the buck" by continuing to use my perfectly functional monitor and keyboard, although I'd probably drop the additional $200 for a decent LCD.

[Atman]

242. If you already have the monitor and keyboard, the Mini is a great deal

You'll be blown away at the performance compared to your old Dell. And the new Mac Minis are Intel-based so you can run Windows if for some reason you wanted to. And its sooo small...like a stack of CD's. And it comes pre-loaded with lots of REAL usable apps...not the ninety-seven bullshit "trial" apps and demos preloaded on PC's. You can literally start making DVD's and using the software right out of the box. No drivers for anything...plug in just about any camera or device, and it recognizes it immediately.

It's a very sweet little machine, especially if you have the monitor and keyboard. If not, go for the iMac.

.

[bullwinkle428]

262. Thanks for the info! I'll have to check it someplace nearby

that carries it, so I can fool around with it in person, but it sounds like a great way to go. Was originally thinking laptop, but a new 17" Apple laptop would set me back around $2800. If I went with a Mac mini along with a refurbished Apple laptop or even a new MacBook, it would cost around a grand or more less than that!

[Deja Q]

223. Fascinating. A middle class consumer gadget is on GD and has 10 votes.

And it uses shittacular Cingular too.

LOL.

[Atman]

225. It's obviously killing you!

:)

.

[mondo joe]

227. Wha's wrong wif the middle class?

[Atman]

228. We...we...BUY THINGS FOR CORPORATIONS!

DAMN US ALL TO HELL!

.

[Wrinkle_In_Time]

229. It has 11 now, mostly because of your attitude. k&r, n/t

[Roland99]

231. Just when I was about to dump Stinkular and switch to Verizon....

But, Apple isn't going to let Cingular subsidize the phone with stuff like 2-year plans.

You want the iPhone? You're paying retail.

That sucks.

[Atman]

235. Premium brands do this all the time

It's called "capitalism." I know we're supposed to hate it here at DU, but it's just market economics. Sony did it for years, but their stock ain't as high right now.

If you sell crappy shitty crap, you'll sell if for whatever you can get..."we lose money on every sale, but we make it up in VOLUME!"

Apple knows full well that they don't have to discount squat. People will buy it, so why GIVE AWAY money? Are you an Apple shareholder? Stock when up nearly $10 today. Damn them!

.

[piedmont]

234. Wow. A 230+ post wank-a-thon over a phone.

Call me luddite, caveman, whatever... but shouldn't this be in the "drooling over expensive toys made in China" forum?

:hide:

[Atman]

236. It's not a phone.

It's not a phone.

It's not a phone.

It's not a phone.

Oh, and...It's not a phone.

.

[piedmont]

313. It's not a phone?

What's this "Cingular subscription required" business about, then? I know it does other stuff, but it will generate a bill from a phone company every month.

And while we're on that other stuff, it kinda reminds me of other combined technologies, like the TV-DVD player combo. One of them will be dead or obsolete before the other, and depending on which one it is, the whole thing may have to ve thrown away. You're only as cutting-edge as your most obsolete component, in other words.

[Atman]

322. I don't argue with you on that.

So...do you still drive a horse and buggy to work? Why embrace any new technology? It will always become obsolete one day. Is your cave heated with mesquite or oak?

.

[piedmont]

355. Ug no heat cave. Fire for wussy geek-boys.

Well, I do use a cell phone, and other gadgets. I do embrace new technology. But what exactly is innovative about mashing together several different devices? This doesn't seem to be analogous to the step forward from horse and buggy to automobile. It seems to be like combining your horse and buggy with a grammophone, fountain pen, steam iron, and whatever other 19th century tech you can think of.

[Atman]

363. Combining your horse and buggy with a grammophone, etc...

Hmmm...you never heard of car stereo?

Add in all those other things, what do you have? A camper.

:shrug:

.

[piedmont]

368. yeah, but car-refrigerator is kinda lame-- as are RVs

It depends on the gadgets being combined and how well developed the tech is. If they work well together, great. But I'm not gonna get that excited about it, unless the synergy results in an unexpected new use. So if there turns out to be a killer app for this thing that just isn't possible without combining all the toys, I might be more impressed.

[Jcrowley]

238. It's just a gadget

Anyone else think the human brain is shrinking?

[Kablooie]

243. You must be old.

[Jcrowley]

286. No

Not old at all. Just find it bizarre and disasterous that our culture finds itself enthralled by gadgets and relatively indifferent to the plight of the needy and completely ignorant as to the source of their well-being. Food and water you see rate a bit higher than toys in my life and I certainly try to mitigate my consumption of stuff so as to avoid stealing from others which is what much of this stuff comes down to when you look at it.

#5 High-Tech Genocide in Congo

Sources:

The Taylor Report, March 28, 2005
Title: “The World’s Most Neglected Emergency: Phil Taylor talks to Keith Harmon Snow”

Earth First! Journal, August 2005
Title: “High-Tech Genocide”
Author: Sprocket

Z Magazine, March 1, 2006
Title: “Behind the Numbers: Untold Suffering in the Congo”
Authors: Keith Harmon Snow and David Barouski

Faculty Evaluator: Thom Lough
Student Researchers: Deyango Harris and Daniel Turner

The world’s most neglected emergency, according to the UN Emergency Relief Coordinator, is the ongoing tragedy of the Congo, where six to seven million have died since 1996 as a consequence of invasions and wars sponsored by western powers trying to gain control of the region’s mineral wealth. At stake is control of natural resources that are sought by U.S. corporations—diamonds, tin, copper, gold, and more significantly, coltan and niobium, two minerals necessary for production of cell phones and other high-tech electronics; and cobalt, an element essential to nuclear, chemical, aerospace, and defense industries.

Columbo-tantalite, i.e. coltan, is found in three-billion-year-old soils like those in the Rift Valley region of Africa. The tantalum extracted from the coltan ore is used to make tantalum capacitors, tiny components that are essential in managing the flow of current in electronic devices. Eighty percent of the world’s coltan reserves are found in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). Niobium is another high-tech mineral with a similar story.

<snip>


Sprocket closes his article by noting that it’s not surprising this information isn’t included in the literature and manuals that come with your cell phones, pagers, computers, or diamond jewelry. Perhaps, he suggests, mobile phones should be outfitted with stickers that read: “Warning! This device was created with raw materials from central Africa. These materials are rare, nonrenewable, were sold to fund a bloody war of occupation, and have caused the virtual elimination of endangered species. Have a nice day.” People need to realize, he says, that there is a direct link between the gadgets that make our lives more convenient and sophisticated—and the reality of the violence, turmoil, and destruction that plague our world.

<snip>

It is time for our culture to start seeing more value in living beings, whether gorillas or humans, than in our disposable high-tech gadgets such as cell phones. It is time to steal back a more compassionate existence from the corporate plutocracy that creates destructive markets and from the media system that has manufactured our consent.

It is not just a question of giving up cell phones (though that would be a great start). We must question the appropriation of our planet in the form of a resource to be consumed, rather than as a home and community to be lived in.

www.projectcensored.org

[onenote]

304. and yet, here you are, posting using a computer via the Internet

why haven't you sold this this gadget and spent the money on food and water for the poor?

[Jcrowley]

314. Yes

I agree it's hypocritical and we all are in that category. Some try to limit this hypocrisy as well as minimize their participation in the worshipping and consuming of empire's trinkets.

And of course to point out what you did is important but it is also the very predictable and common technique to face up to and discuss the larger realities. It is used as a distraction.
One could almost script these things.

One thing I've noticed in all of this is that folks will rarely even acknowledge the material fact of the horrific consequences of these technologies let alone refuse them. Perhaps it's a necessary form of denial to avoid the cognitive dissonance.

________________________________________________________________________________

Only After The Last Tree Has Been Cut Down,
Only after The Last River Has Been Poisoned,
Only after The Last Fish Has Been Caught,
Only Then Will You Find That Money Cannot Be Eaten.

_______________________________________________________________________________

Here are the real production costs of ONE silicon chip:

-3,200 cubic feet of bulk gases

- 22 cubic feet of toxic, corrosive and volatile gases

- 2,275 gallons of de-ionized water (a suspected liver, gastrointestinal and neurological toxin)

- 20 pounds of assorted chemicals

- 285 kilowatt hours of electricity (coal-fired or nuclear powered)

- 25 pounds og highly corrosive sodium hydroxide

- 2,840 gallons of wastewater and seven pounds of miscellaneous hazardous waste

There is a longer laundry list of air and waste stream pollutants such as arsenic, lead, chromium, acid fumes and volatile organic compounds that end up in watersheds, wells, and marine ecosystems. I've just skimmed the surface of only one aspect that being just the production. It gets much worse when we follow the entire trail.

[mondo joe]

326. How do you think Al Gore lives with himself?

[Atman]

328. Oh, come on...lay off the "worshipping" crap.

No one is "worshipping" anything here. I, as a consumer, have a real use for this product. It is something I've wanted for quite a while, every time I'm stuffing ten different gadgets in my freakin' pocket when I go away for the weekend. Why shouldn't anyone look to this product and say "Cool! I want one!"? What is wrong with it?

Your own list of ingredients should be reason enough, Mr. Hypocrite. Here is ONE DEVICE that does the work of seven. Seven less chip sets. Seven less plastic castings. Seven less LCD screens. All those things you say are so terrible...this eliminates lots of them. It would seem Your Highness would be THRILLED that Apple will be actually REDUCING the waste, since I, Joe Consumer (I swear, it's my real name!) now only need ONE device, not seven.

Hmm?

Whoops, 'scuse me...I just got a call to prayer...gotta bend over and face Cupertino...

.

[Kablooie]

330. You must be young.

[Atman]

331. Young at heart.

I turn 48 in April. Off to Tahoe next week, though, for some backcountry snowboarding! Age isn't keepin' my ass down, dammit! And I'll have my iPod, cell phone AND camera with me when I go. DAMN...I wish someone would invent a device that combined all three so I wouldn't have to lug all that crap!

.

[Tesha]

346. Give it up, Atman. Anyone who think deionized water is...

314> 2,275 gallons of de-ionized water (a suspected liver, gastrointestinal and neurological toxin)

Give it up, Atman. Anyone who think deionized water is a toxin
isn't worth arguing with; they clearly have no grasp on reality.

Tesha

[Kablooie]

357. You must be middle aged.

[mondo joe]

257. What about music, internet and communication do you think reflects a shrinking

brain?

[Jcrowley]

284. Probably

Certainly an overly indulgent toy infatuated culture that knows more about the latest feature on their iPod than where their food comes reflects a very small-minded and short-sighted species.

[mondo joe]

287. What a bizarre assumption.

Does using the internet result in you not knowing where your food comes from?

Does listening to music make your small minded and short sighted?

[Jcrowley]

290. No

The point is pretty simple. This thread makes the case. Overall our society is far more interested in iPods, cellphones, computers, cars and other shiny objects than it is in knowing the source of it's food, water and other items that are obviously far more important, since you need them for survival and well-being, than the gadgets that occupy so much of our interest.

And that's only one aspect of it.

Do you ever wonder where all the stuff comes from and what are the ramifications of that?


www.projectcensored.org


Perhaps, he suggests, mobile phones should be outfitted with stickers that read: “Warning! This device was created with raw materials from central Africa. These materials are rare, nonrenewable, were sold to fund a bloody war of occupation, and have caused the virtual elimination of endangered species. Have a nice day.” People need to realize, he says, that there is a direct link between the gadgets that make our lives more convenient and sophisticated—and the reality of the violence, turmoil, and destruction that plague our world.

<snip>


It is time for our culture to start seeing more value in living beings, whether gorillas or humans, than in our disposable high-tech gadgets such as cell phones.

:hi:

[mondo joe]

307. Or it could be that we have brains that can understand both things.

Excuse me - I have to go put on my sackcloth and ashes.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

240. I still use corded phones and tape cassettes!

I don't even own a cell phone! I guess I'm 'square'

[Bridget Burke]

260. Hey, I never trusted cassettes....

So I've still got hundreds of LP's & a turntable. I've got plenty of CD's, but realize they are now old-fashioned.

While this lovely gadget doesn't fit my budget, I hope people buy it & the technology keeps improving. It will filter down to me, eventually.

I dumped my land-line when the static got too bad. It had already been "fixed" once, but I couldn't schedule my day around a repairman & there was no assurance that it could be fixed for free. When my phone started calling 911 at odd hours, that was the last straw. Nothing like cops knocking on the door at 3 AM. So I've got a nice little Virgin cell phone.

Some people might think I spend too much on books. We all have different priorities.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

351. why do they have that $1 connection fee on 'pay as you go' cell phones

I might get one if they didn't have that $1 per day fee. I would use the cell phone in emergencies maybe

[Bridget Burke]

358. Virgin Mobile doesn't have a $1 connection fee.

I use the "minute to minute" option & it's very cheap. You only pay for minutes on the phone. (Plus new ring tones, if you're a sucker for music!) Check them out.

This is not an ad.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

359. thanks

I looked at virgin but they are 18 cents a minute instead of 10 cents

[Bridget Burke]

361. I think the other providers REALLY want you to sign a contract.

So they make pay-as-you-go less attractive.

Virgin seems to want the younger customer who can't really make a big commitment. But they also get the old fogey who wants a cell phone for occasional use--not as a permanent attachment to their ear. Especially when they're driving!

(Although I'm glad some folks like to invest in the latest cool gadget. Eventually, the technology works its way down to us fogies!)

[Atman]

365. My son had Virgin, and it had a wicked-high "first minute" fee

Every day, your first minute was really high...it amounted to a $30 a month fee above and beyond your minutes. Read the fine print...most of the pre-paid plans do something similar. It made the phone worthless. I actually felt bad for him getting hosed, he was just a kid and it was eating up his money, so I finally just added him to my plan and got him the intro phone for free.

.

[Bridget Burke]

387. I just checked my account.....

I pay 18 cents per minute. For a fee of 6.99 per month, each minute would be ten cents. The first level suits my calling style quite well.

Yes, I read the fine print.

[in_cog_ni_to]

271. My sister is the same way. She still uses an old corded phone, refuses to buy a cell phone, doesn't

have an internet connection and JUST RECENTLY (a month ago) purchased a $10.00 cordless phone with caller ID because the caller ID was included FREE on her phone service. :) The corded phone she uses is a replica wall wind up thing. It hangs on the wall so she has to get up and go to the kitchen to talk on the phone.

[NoSheep]

321. Shame on you!

:D :hi:

[Atman]

241. MORE INFO on the iPhone...

This thing is even cooler than I first saw...

If you are in a WiFi area, it'll automatically use that instead of your cell data plan.

The OSX this runs on is not necessarily MAC OSX...it could be Linux...IOW, open source developers can write apps for it.

It features the new 802.11n wifi, apparently to interface with Apple TV and Airport. Hmmm...wireless video to your television from your phone?

Yeah...this is all just hype, nothing more. Old stuff, just Apple hype. So you ney-sayers groove on your iRiver mp3 players while you talk on your dictionary-sized PDA...Apple is, as usual, looking beyond your limited horizon.

.

[crispini]

248. LOL. My dad got my mom an iRiver.

For Christmas one year. He's an ubergeek (runs his own flavor of Linux, I believe) and she is WAY not. Of course, she can't use the damn thing, the UI sucks wang.

The funny thing about the arguments on this thread, the folks that are going, "Apple gadgets are overpriced and do what other gadgets can already do at half the price." These folks remind me of my Dad. They have no problem with geeking around in the registry of their system or whatever, and they completely fail to understand why everybody else can't do the same thing. They're the folks that blame the user. They completely fail to understand the value of good user interface design, and why people like my mom should NOT have to understand how a file system works in order to be able to use a stupid PC.

Ahhh... Apple. Good design makes me so damn happy, NOT because it's about the technology -- good design is about PEOPLE.

My mom will LOVE this.

[mondo joe]

255. That's my neigbhor couple exactly. He's a Linux geek who would be happy

dicking around with making something try to work forever - without it actually WORKING.

His wife finally insisted she was getting an iPod because she had to have something SHE could make work when SHE wanted it to.

[Maiden England]

244. Drool...Me likey, me likey a lot.

I love my mac, I love my ipod. I'm going to love this baby too!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

250. lol! When you go to the page showing its bells & whistles it shows "Democrats Win Congress" front

page of the New York Times!!!!

[entanglement]

252. It seems Apple wants to evolve into a consumer electronics firm

(They're even planning on rolling out something called iTV next month). Of course, the iPhone is ridiculously overpriced, like all Apple products, but devoted(?) Apple fans won't mind paying $600 for this one.

[Atman]

265. iTV can be ordered now...it is already for sale

But I don't think you can take it home. It is a wireless box with a 40GB hd that transfers the videos and photos on your Mac (or PC) to your television set, so you can download movies from iTunes (the just announced they've got the Paramount catalog) and watch them on something other than an iPod.

http://www.apple.com/appletv/

.

[progressoid]

254. Nice manicure.

[MadHound]

258. Yay, another mindless consumer gadget to further isolate each from the other,

And keep the people mindlessly occupied while discussing the latest "American Idol" episode:eyes:

Don't get me wrong, I like Apple, I've been an Apple computer afficianado for years and decades. But I find it apalling how the general populace is become increasingly isolated from each other, even when they're out in public. First is was the Walk heads, with their headphones strapped in place no matter where they went, blithely ignoring their fellow human beings. Then it was thephone heads, with their cells seemingly(and now literally) permanently attached to their ear, babbling away away bullshit no matter what they're doing, including driving and operating heavy machinery. Then it was the rise of the Pod people, a huge leap over the Walkheads. The iPod is so small and unobtrusive that music could go anywhere and hardly be noticed, until you tried conversing with such person, who would then blithely ignore you since they couldn't hear you over the din of their latest download. iPods entered the workforce and walks the halls of academia, as people mindlessly bop along, cut off from most other human contact. And if you insist on breaking into their electronic revery, you are regarded as an intrusion, and obstacle for daring to force people into human contact for whatever reason.

Now we have the rise of the iPhone, a seeming combination of music player, video player, 'net browser, personal computer and cell phone. And more and more people are going to become increasingly withdrawn from the sphere of public life, instead retreating to their own little electronic world, preferring to interact digitally rather than personally.

I think that this is starting to become an addiction, an electronic addiction. People increasingly want a "fix" of their electronic gadgets, and have withdrawl pangs when they don't get it. I'm much reminded of the Larry Niven concept of the tasp, an electronic device that plugs directly into a humans' pleasure centers. I think that we're quickly reaching that point. The next big technological breakthrough is a direct interface between human brains and electronic devices.

And meanwhile, this new technology eats up even more of our dwindling resources. Plastic from petroleum, silicon that has been irradiated, toxic metals to dispose of, and the energy that is required to power all of these gadgets. Oh the joy of consumerism and gadgets:eyes: The better to divert the populace from the reality of a declining world, and keep the populace ignorant of what is going on.

Enjoy your increasingly limited life of gadgets. I will continue to enjoy the sounds of nature and the world, and relish the interaction with my fellow human beings for as long as possible. Meanwhile, more and more people turn into electronic zombies, how sad.

[mondo joe]

261. Jesus Christ, get off the internet and go connect with another fucking human.

Posting on an internet board about how you're enjoying the sounds of nature and the world is fucking hyppocrisy, at best.

[MadHound]

263. You have no clue about where I am, nor what I'm doing, nor where I'm posting from

Gee, it could be a laptop, out on my deck, on a beautiful Wed. morning. Look, there goes a hawk!

Sorry, but it isn't hypocrisy friend, it is my opinion on the state of human/tech interaction. You don't like it, fine. You are perfectly free to tech yourself up with pods and phones and whatnot to the point where you don't interact with anything or anybody non-digital ever again. But I am also free to express my opinion of the this sad state, and also free to point out the increasingly extravagant use of diminishing natural resources that are required to use and manufacture these soul sucking devices.

Enjoy!

Me, I'm taking off for class here in a few minutes, commuting through the countryside on my little scooter. No phone, no radio, just a bike on the road. It will be a lovely ride.

[mondo joe]

264. And you have no idea what someone might do with their iPhone, right?

They might take it out on their deck - look, there goes a hawk!

Of course you magically know that someone with an iPod doesn't interact with anything non digital.

:eyes:

[Little Wing]

270. Don't worry about it, some people are just born screaming for attention

and will post the most unbelievably stupid shit they can come up with to get it.

[mondo joe]

274. There's always an asshole who is happy to substitute his or her judgment

for other people's personal choices -- from abortion to marriage to how you spend your free time.

Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.

[Atman]

279. Puritanism?

I thought that was a description of the requirements for being a member of Certifiable Underground?

.

[ScreamingMeemie]

312. Motorized?

If it's motorized it's just too much for society to handle. :eyes:

[ScreamingMeemie]

311. ....", he says, his fash awash in the blue glow of his computer screen.

I find that soapbox rant funny posted here, on the internets.

Funny in a "how sad", ironic sort of way. No amount of "hawk gazing" can change the fact that you too are doing your part to keep the information superhighway clogged with traffic.

[BlueEyedSon]

266. yeah, when the handset and the service are about HALF the current price..!

[Little Wing]

275. Congratulations Democratic Underground. This is the most obnoxious thread

in the history of the Internets

[Dora]

281. What's obnoxious about it?

It is an engaging and thoughtful discussion about consumer electronics, marketing, pricing ramifications, etc.

I've seen obnoxious. I don't think this is it.

[Renew Deal]

285. lol

:yourock:

[aceman2373]

289. ripoff!! who has $500 to spend in a cell phone?

[Atman]

292. At least you didn't bother to read any other posts or do any research!

Saves time, eh? You didn't even to add TEXT to your post, you summed up everything you don't know about the device in your sub line.

Here's a recap of what you missed...

It is NOT a cell phone. It HAS a cell phone, and happens to be called iPhone, but it's not really a cell phone. It is an iPod with a touch screen phone, wifi, bluetooth, video player, camera, web browser (a real one, not special cell phone pages), and a GPS, and it's all less than 1/2" thick.

Go buy all those goodies and carry em all around in your pocket if that'll make you feel better for not forking out $500. But you'll have spent probably $900 at that point.

.

[aceman2373]

323. wow, thanks for straightening me out on this

here's some text for my post.
bluetooth?
video player?
a CAMERA???
and a real web browser????
WOW, it's a fuckin bargain, you talked me into it.
Where can I get one??!!

[onenote]

305. Answer: someone who has $500 to spend on a cell phone

You don't think such people exist? Do you think that there are people who have $3000 to spend on a television? People who have $50,000 to spend on a car? Heck, you can buy a dvd player for $30; do you think there aren't people who have $800 to buy a blu-ray hi-def DVD player?

[mondo joe]

310. Answer: the same people who have $500 to spend on an iPod and

a cell phone. But now they can get a lot more for their $500.

[elvisbear]

306. I wonder if the hand model in the photo knows Ray McKigney?

Tragic story, I'm afraid. He could've had any woman in the world.. but none could match the beauty of his own hand.. and that became his one true love....:D

[ronnykmarshall]

315. Very cool.

But that's WAY too much crap for me to have on a phone.

[Nutmegger]

316. This thread is

:rofl:

Thanks Atman! :hi:

[Atman]

318. Funny, I was just going to post about this thread, too!

It really is way above and beyond anything I expected. The sheer number of posts to this thread help illustrate why Apple is #1 at what they do. People are passionate about Apple products, pro or con. The few cons genuinely sound like my recently-deceased grandfather, telling me there is no need for microwave ovens, because who the hell needs a baked potato(e) in eight minutes?!

.

[mondo joe]

319. What? Apple is making a microwave?

It's too fucking expensive, and I wish they'd make one ordinary people can afford, even though I don't want one anyway because it would SUCK.

Besides, microwaves are just one more soul-sucking device that keeps people from the soul-building labor of baking a potato for an hour the way they SHOULD be cooked.

[Atman]

324. LUDDITE! I can cook a potato in my shorts

with the new iMicro. While I'm taking my kid to Computer Camp. Don't ask me about the sour cream.

.

[mondo joe]

325. SOUR CREAM IS NOT NECESSARY!

It's just a decadent "I'm so much cooler than you because I have a mouth full of sour cream" thing.

We shuold only eat what's necessary to survive. A potato is good enough as is - no butter, and definitely no sour cream, is used by true progressives.

[Atman]

320. Part of what the Apple-haters don't realize...this ain't a phone...

I've already had a conference call this morning will a client, and we're looking forward. This device is revolutionary, whether you Bill Gates suck ups realize it or not. This thing has SO MANY applications, if all of the features described are actually delivered. People will be writing specific apps and web site specifically because of this phone. The markets I deal in are young, tech-savvy people. They're gonna eat this thing up! You neo-Luddites -- the ones who hate everything Apple does, but attempt to embrace the technologies when their crappy competitors create a cheap, poorly-executed knock-off -- can keep on keepin on with Windows CE and registries on your cell phones. The rest of us will send you a postcard from the future.

.

[geomon666]

329. It's not a phone? Isn't that false advertising then?

iPhone.......does it play LP's?

Another overpriced piece of technological wonder. I'm waiting for the iCrap myself. Touchscreen flushing baby!

[NYCGirl]

334. LP's?

What's an LP?

[aceman2373]

335. atman sure loves his iPhone that's not just a Phone

is that you Steve Jobs?

[Atman]

337. Shhhh

I'm hoping he'll send me a comp unit for being such a cheerleader!

;)

But you know what? I have a Windows PC, and several Macs. I've used Macs since the first Mac II (with COLOR!). So sure, I'm an unabashed Mac supporter. No question. And I make no apologies for it.

.

[mondo joe]

343. He's not Steve.

He's Al.

[MyNameGoesHere]

375. Not a phone?

Why they call it iphone?

[aceman2373]

336. Hold the Phone!

It has a calculator too????
That's it, I'm gettin one of these puppies.

[Atman]

338. What division of MS do you work in?

The "Vaporware" division, the "Virus Welcome Matt" division, or the "Steal stuff from Apple" division?

:eyes:

.

[Roxy66]

339. This thread needs to go away...

[Warren DeMontague]

345. You just kicked it.

Congratulations!

[Atman]

349. STOP KICKING THIS THREAD!

DOH!

.

[Warren DeMontague]

350. Okay.

Whoops!

[piedmont]

360. These assholes just keep kicking it to the top!

D'oh!

[Atman]

362. At least no one mentioned BALLS!

The thread would be nine hundred posts by know!

Hehehe...I just thought of something...

iBalls.

Hehehe. I crack myself up sometimes!


.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

348. Sold.

The thing is sick. Can't wait.

[BlackVelvetElvis]

352. I went gaga over this when I first saw it.

Beautiful design and UI.
The thing that wins me over is the ease of use. No stylus!
However, the battery issue worries me a bit. These things die and you have to replace it by sending it back to Apple. With iPods this is a big problem. I've had the battery replaced in my 3rd generation iPod 3 times since I bought it about 3-4 years ago. Apple sends you another iPod than the one you sent in. Therefore, you have to back up everything or you lose it.
I wonder if this fixes this issue.

[SanCristobal]

354. I not an Apple fan, but I have to admit

this thing is pretty cool. I will have to play with one before I make up my mind, but it looks like a nice product. Ipods have been outdated and overpriced for a while, this seems like a step in the right direction.

[Midlodemocrat]

364. I must be the only person on the planet without an iPod.

My entire family has them and they all love them. I like to sing along in the car, or at my desk, and sometimes I don't want to hear MY voice, so I turn it up.

[leftyladyfrommo]

366. Nah, I have you beat - no ipod, no computer, no DVD

I use a friend's computer. I only have a little old Sony 13 inch TV. And I do have a tape player. No cable. I have a cell phone and a regular phone.

I just am one of the last of the luddites. I hate that stuff. I wan't to deal with a person.

[Atman]

367. 3550 posts on your friend's computer????

Do you LIVE there? That's a damned good friend!

.

[leftyladyfrommo]

370. Well, I also use the computer at the library.

And that 3550 posts is over a long time.

When I get a real job again I will get my own computer. Right now I can't afford one.

[smalll]

369. Admins - can we please start up a Materialists Forum on DU -

so that the techno-elite greedheads can salivate to their hearts' content over the latest shiny new gadget amongst themselves? Even better, a Materialists' Dungeon -- open up the trapdoor and send these kinds of threads to some dark obscure place, like what happens with Israel/Palestine discussions. At least Israel/Palestine (or 9/11) have SOMETHING to do with politics. These materialist threads seem way out of place, in my humble opinion.

[Atman]

371. Here's an amazing option for you...DON'T CLICK ON THE THREAD!

Is someone holding a gun to your head, forcing you to read it?

.

[mondo joe]

374. While you're at it how about a Puritans forum so people can talk about how fucking pure

they are, or how much their sackcloth itches or something.

[smalll]

376. lol - I'm not really a Puritan,

just had a cigarette after a red-meat dinner. And I'm not a Luddite either, sitting here at my computer. But look again at the OP -

"The iPhone is here...and OMFG...
Check this baby out...and, as luck would have it, my conract with Cingular is up very soon (IOW, I can upgrade!) and my iPod is an antique that needs to be replaced. This thing is insane! Phone, iPod and PDA all in one. Just one button.
DROOOOOOOL" --

"I can upgrade!" Yeah, just like that perky blonde encourages women to upgrade in that annoying TV ad for "premium" tampons or whatever it is -- "upgrade" your boyfriend, "upgrade" your wardrobe, "upgrade" your tampon, (Life is All About Paying Extra!)

And "my iPod is an antique that needs to be replaced" :wtf: Now I don't know too much about these things, but haven't iPods only been out for a couple of years or so? How is that an "antique"? Broken already? Or maybe, I guess, in all it's wonderfulness, it looks like crap next to the latest edition? Yeah - it "needs" to be replaced...

Like me, I bet most of the demurrers to this thread are not raising objections, out of extreme puritanism or Luddism (we're all on computers after all.) And we're not out to stop people doing whatever they want, or pursuing whatever enthusiasms give them their jollies. We're just saying, dude, starting threads like this in GD, rather than in the Lounge (or in a yet-to-be-created-but-much-needed Materialists Forum) isn't exactly a great move. Greedheadism just doesn't come off that good. :shrug:

[mondo joe]

378. Dude, humans like toys. We have that in common with dogs - we like toys and

play well into adulthood.

So re-fucking-lax. With every problem in the world, the thing getting your panties in a knot is that people like new technology?

Go write a pissy letter to Al Gore.

Better yet, just ignore the damn thread if it interferes with your steak-digestion.

This is GD. Not GD - Politics. I can help you find that forum if you get lost.

:-)

[Jcrowley]

384. Dogs prefer food

every time.

But the trained ones can be convinced that they Should chase the toy.

And the Overly Trained ones can be convinced the toy IS food or at least will lead to the food.

[mondo joe]

386. I don't know what pathetic joyless dogs you've known, or what a sad joyless

life you live - but I'm glad neither is mine. :-)

[Atman]

381. LOL! Thanks...I needed that!

You've had some awesome posts in this thread, Joe, but that one was literally a LOL inducer!

.

[Nutmegger]

373. I needed another laugh so I'm glad this was kicked again!

[NYCGirl]

380. Atman! Here's a funny clip from Craig Ferguson comparing Apple vs. Microsoft!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyuDAzzKnz8

[Atman]

382. Sorry...COLBERT had a great bit on this baby, so it decided, WTF...nother kick

Westies, tune in. Colbert gave his first special DOUBLE WAG OF THE FINGER to Apple. You gotta see it...

.

[Posteritatis]

383. I'm waiting for the day when cellphones

..have so much extra crap added - pictures, video, mp3s, defibrillators, dishwasher, personal defense lasers, kitchen sink - that one comes out where voice communication between two individuals becomes a feature you need to get seperately.

You know it's gonna happen. ;)

(That said, I still want a rotary-dial cell phone.)

[piedmont]

385. This thread is growing on me... like ear hair. Or warts.

what the hell. kick!