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Why do liberals hate Hillary,” asked a 16 year old Young Dem

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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:05 PM
Original message
Why do liberals hate Hillary,” asked a 16 year old Young Dem
This kid is an activist and was sincere. I sputtered around about her being much more involved than previous First Ladies, being called a “co-president,” having been in charge of a very controversial plan for universal health care in the early Clinton years, being a lightning rod for Bill and so forth.

Kid said: “that was a long time ago. She’s been a Senator since I was in, like, 5th grade.”

THIS KID WILL BE 18 AND WILL VOTE for the next President, along with millions of others in his age range.

So, I’ve had some time-related thoughts:
The upcoming crop of voters was born in 1990 or sometime before. Using 1990,
–they were 2 or so when the universal health care commission was in the news
–they were 8 or so when Monica-gate was in the news
–they were 10 or 11 when BushCo moved into the White House
–they were 10 or 11 when Sen. Clinton came into office

I have no sense of how the time factors will affect her candidacy.

It does reinforce my opinion that she is judged by very, very different standards than
any other candidate and that perhaps many are looking more to the past than to the future.


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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Aren't those the reasons conservatives hate Hillary? nt
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Thank you. Universal health care is not a minus for me.
Cobbling it together from insurance companies is.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. She actually has a very progressive voting record. nt
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Adenoid_Hynkel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. yeah the bankruptcy bill, 'free' trade and the war vote are SO progressive
screw her and her yuppie husband
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. I don't need to hear any Democrat referred to that way here.
With the exception of Lieberman who is not a Democrat.

We're about to embark on a long journey and this vituperative, juvenile crap is no help whatsoever in determining our choice.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
19. Voted against CAFTA and I believe was absent for the bankruptcy bill
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. "absent for the bankruptcy bill" - Did she not think that was important?
The working class does.

These people are not going to get passes because they were doing other things than vote. Or, voted to end debate on a bill when the outcome in the floor vote is a detriment to the working class.

No more games from these people.
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Adenoid_Hynkel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. correct-she was absent the 2nd time-and voted FOR it the first
she's not on our side and the hillbots need to get over their infatuation and actually look at the issues.
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Adenoid_Hynkel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #19
28. didn't say a peep throughout the 90s when bill sold labor out
so she's probably going to go bill's way on that one, too

and as for bankruptcy, as i said below, she voted for it the first time-then skipped the vote the 2nd time
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blasphemousinner Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
30. Uh... Yuppie?
Well, they're not "Young Urban Professionals", considering they're both over 50 years old and they're not what I'd consider "Urban Professionals". Bill is an ex-president and Hillary is a New York Senator. That's a step up, in my opinion.

And while you're insulting all the candidates that don't meet your exact requisites for candidacy, why don't you just vote for John McCain? The number of votes that can be swung by cross-democrat tensions is enough to count just as such, particularly since the Moderates are expected to determine this election.
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lostnotforgotten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Progressives Don't Vote For Illegal Wars!
eom
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asthmaticeog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. "Progressive" compared to who, Pinochet?
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. It doesn't matter why ( to me personally). There is not reason to have
such a loathed candidate be our nominee.
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
7. The youth of this country haven't turned out the vote
en masse as predicted. 18-21 yr olds still have a bad habit of ignoring the vote.
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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
8. A Bush or Clinton has been in the executive office for over half my life.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. That makes you young. You'll get over it.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. For me it's all but about 1 and 1/2 years of my life
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
9. I don't hate Hillary...
.... I just don't think shes the best we have to offer, and the country and our party needs the best.

Hillary just proves over and over again that she might be a good politician but she is no leader.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
10. they don't hate her, your friend has swallowed a talking point
might be a good moment to talk frankly about memes and hitler's concept of "the big lie"

who are these people telling us that we hate hillary? i don't think they're necessarily progressives, do you?

however, my short answer -- and in person i'm not "talky" so i usually give a short answer -- is "many people are still threatened by smart women"
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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Alot of dems would vote for Pelosi and are not threatened by her.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. absolutely i agree
however people asking "why all ya'll hate hillary" are not voting for pelosi either

this "young dem" is probably not yet aware of where she stands

keep it short and sweet

i'm afraid when i was that age, that's how the libertarians got me, with the short sweet and simplistic crap

i'm just glad i got away! :-)
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. I could even handle it if it just sorta fell into her lap.
I'm liking that woman soooooooooooo much.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. "They"?
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. "grammar police"?
sorry, i don't get the question?

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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. There are four questions at Passover.
The teaching I took from it is to look very carefully at anyone who says "they" when they should have said "we."

So, yeah, I questioned the "they."
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. not into passover
Edited on Sat Jan-20-07 10:30 PM by pitohui
and i find the royal we inaccurate and offensive

so let's write it off to a cultural difference, to me, most of the time "we" is just puffing yourself up

i am one person, i have no right to speak for somebody else unless i make it clear that i am just offering that as opinion

"they" in this case does that, "we" is just putting me as the mouthpiece of all progressives which is ridiculous on the face of it
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. hmmm, judging from posts at DU I think it's not such a 'talking point'
I'm getting kind of annoyed by it, and Hillary isn't even my choice for the primaries. Worse yet, I see very little substance in the vitriol.
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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
23. Thanks for the responses.

The kid's question really made me stop and think. I've said on DU that Hillary bashing is a national pasttime shared by left and right alike. Now really is the time to -- stop and think.
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blasphemousinner Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
25. Oh dear
I think that a lot of democrats are already starting the process for another disastrous Democratic Primary with all of the talk of her past. When the base gets heated up it only inflames the candidates even more, and we really need a more gentile Primary to be able to win this election. Every past election we've had democrats tearing each other apart on the dumbest of things that come back to haunt the election. The highlight, for me, being Al Sharpton and John Edwards in 04'.

I also think it's pretty obvious how bad the media is right now. Kind of like a pack of vultures they'll go for anything they can. The fact Hillary gets so much "heat" from them is not surprising because she is about as close to the anti Christ as the Neo-cons could conceive of. If she gets the primary her moderate-progressive stances will be likely to sweep across the undecided and independent voters.

I'm simply worried about John Edwards as far as things go. Barack Obama and the other candidates tend to be more cordial in debate with other democrats, but Edwards has a big mouth that can sometimes get him in big trouble. The candidates need to realize that no matter who wins the Democratic Base will definitely support them over any Giuliani or McCain. If the Democratic Primary goes along with it in a "Gentile" manner, then we'll have a major media surprise at our advantage and almost no ammunition from the Republicrats coming out of it. If we make it about issues and not personalities than we can set ourselves up to make it about issues and not personalities.

It's safe to say, as well, that if it's about issues, any of the candidates on our side could trounce the Republicans.

In the end I think we, as Democrats, need to understand that any one of our Candidates in the Oval Office is better than a McCain or a Giuliani. It might be concessions, but it's not nearly as bad of a concession as it will be if we let our passions take over our sensibilities.
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Adenoid_Hynkel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
29. because she, bill and her sycophant followers like carville...
betrayed the political left in the 90s, threw in with gingrich on trade and welfare and then took us all for granted and acted like any criticism of them form the left was unwarranted.

that's why you got nader in 2000 and dam it, we may just have to back ol' ralph again.

the last thing this party needs is for that bunch to take its identity away just as its rediscovery of its roots gave it the 2006 victories
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