Can a non-Christian win the Presidency ?

[rpgamerd00d]

I am NOT prejudiced against anyone or any religion, but among my friends who are NOT political, the concensus seems to be that America is not ready to elect a non-Christian.

What is the feeling on this board?

I am not asking if you SUPPORT any candidate, because of course you do.

I am asking if you think AMERICA (i.e. the sheep) would possibly vote for a non-christian or do you think they would reject any non-christian candidate solely on that criteria?

(I would do a poll, but I cant.)

[Dhalgren]

1. No.

[MadMaddie]

2. A non-Christian would still have a better chance...

than a black man.

I think the country is ready for a women...

[ContraBass Black]

38. The Thunderclap of Truth

Well said.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

57. How about a black woman?

[entanglement]

92. next to impossible

n/t

[Misunderestimator]

63. Actually I think a religious black man would have a better chance

than an atheist, male or female. And a black man would definitely have a better chance against a gay man or woman.

[Strong Atheist]

71. Not if they are an atheist... nt.

[Ladyhawk]

82. I want an atheistic black lesbian to be the next POTUS. n/t

[Strong Atheist]

84. Lol! When pigs fly, unfortunately...

:toast:

:hi:

[JohnnyCougar]

83. Yes...

If they can be elected as a Senator, what is to say that their non-Christianity makes them unelectable in other states?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

96. I disagree with that, actually.

It wouldn't amaze me to see e.g. Obama becoming president in the next decade or two

That's not the same thing as saying I think it will happen, because there are so
many other people who could become president too, but I don't think it's out of the question, and I certainly think it's much more likely than a non-Jewish non-Christian becoming president.

The fraction of voters who won't vote for a black man is not that large, and nearly all of them vote the same way anyhow; but both parties have non trivial fractions of potential voters who wouldn't vote for an atheist, giving them too much to lose.

[Burning Water]

3. I suppose it

would depend on the candidate's policy positions, as it always does. If they agreed with him, and not the other guy, of course they would.

[rpgamerd00d]

5. So, you think the sheeple of America would ignore faith entirely and...

... vote on the merrit of the candidate?

Really?

[Burning Water]

35. Why, yes, I do.

However, what are the chances that a non-Christian candidate will have the values they will vote for? Even other Christians often don't. Otherwise they would all be either Democrats or Republicans instead of divided between them.

If you always look for a malicious motive why other people don't agree with you, you might miss the real motive, hence be unable to do anything about it. At least that's the way I look at it.

[Ravenseye]

16. No Way

So you're saying that if a Muslim Arab American ran on the ticket he'd have a chance as long as people agree with his policies?

Fat chance.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

26. I don't think at this time

a Muslim could win the White House. I agree.

[Burning Water]

40. What Muslim

would you recommend, yourself? Are there any ready out there, with the requisite political experience. They have to be native born Americans, too.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

41. I don't know any Muslims who are in, or appear to want

to be in, public office.

I've seen a lot of well-spoken and intelligent Muslim advocates on various news programs, however. But I can't give you any names.

[Burning Water]

45. No, and I can't

give you any, either. What about Louis Farrakhan? He's Muslim.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

52. I think he is a brilliant man

and there is a lot I admire about him but some of his more radical statements would weigh him down in a political race.

[Burning Water]

60. The man's a racist

thug and an anit-Semite. Ys, I think that would weight him down some among the voters.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

76. Yes, like I said

some of his more radical opinions would weigh him down.

way way way down.

He wouldn't sell well in Miami, that's for sure. Or anywhere else in my state.

[Burning Water]

39. Well, maybe not

a Muslim American. I don't think the public would trust them. But not because of their religion. per se, but because of the fact that they (some of them) keep killing people. But there are lots of other non-Christians out there. Hindus, Buddhists, pagans, even. Probably a Jewish person would have the best shot.

But here's the rub. What's the chances of getting a non-Christian who espouses the same values as a Christian? They are not non-existent, I don't think, but they are not probable, either.

Also, the other guy (the Christian) would most probably have to be strongly opposed to the values they espoused. Then you go with values. Values first, tribalism second.

Let's make a comparison. How many on DU would vote for an openly gay man who ran on Republican values? How many blacks would vote for Clarence Thomas or Thomas Sowell for President? How many DU women would like to see janice Rogers Brown on the SC? Values first, tribalism second.

[Moody Bluz]

59. I agree, a Jew would stand a chance...

but I do not think that anyone who does not affiliate himself with either Christianity or Judaism would stand the slightest chance.

Just look at how pious ALL Presidential candidates get when election time rolls around.

Name at least one Democratic candidate who has not made the requisite photo op at a church, bible in hand, during a Presidential campaign.

[Burning Water]

62. Oh, well,

what are the chances a Christian will be elected prime minister of Japan, or Lebanon, or Syria? People tend to vote for their own, but they will, I think, vote their values and interests first.

[Moody Bluz]

68. An Admitted Atheist...

would never stand a chance, no matter what his values or interests might be. In fact his atheism would be used against him by his opponent. Not that I believe this is right, but I believe it to be true. Religion is too firmly entenched in this country for a non-religious candidate to ever make headway.

[Burning Water]

86. Well, the country was founded

by religious people, not atheists, and they've stayed in the majority ever since.

Still, I disagree with you. I think a conservative christian would vote for a conservative atheist over a liberal christian any day. I also think that liberal atheists would vote for a liberal christian over a conservative atheist any day. That's just my opinion, of course, but I believe it to be correct.

[Imagine My Surprise]

4. Only if he is Jewish -- with a big time Christian VP

--and definitely no way an agnostic or professed atheist, or Wiccan or anything remotely progressive. Remember, Kennedy was the first Catholic.

[sui generis]

6. I think it's bound to happen sooner or later

but an atheist has a better chance of getting elected than a muslim or a jew, in America.

Candidates need to educate their constituencies. Religion (or the lack of it) IS NOT an important value for selecting an administrator for our government.

An education, intelligence, vision and real leadership in the policies of governance are what is needed to govern effectively and fairly.

[bunkerbuster1]

13. Disagree. Fundies will get behind a Jewish candidate

so long as it's a religious-right approved Jewish candidate.

And I could see that happening.

A Muslim? Atheist? nope. Not in my lifetime.

[sui generis]

37. fundies don't elect presidents

there aren't enough of them.

And if a fundie's primary criteria was the religiosity of a candidate, that's a fear button we could play.

I don't for one second believe that Pat Robertson or Joe Lieberman or George Bush believe in god.

We have already elected an atheist.

[bunkerbuster1]

53. True, they don't. but I don't see how a Gooper can win without them.

As to how easily a Dem could play against Fundie fears of a Jewish candidate... golly, you think maybe they'd have a "Dems are anti-semites!" set o' talkin' points rarin' to go? That'd be parroted by endless media hacks?

I'm just thinking hypothetically. I think the charlatans -- Dobson, Robertson, et al -- running these "Christian" organizations are as corrupt and morally pliable as anyone. And if they can convince their flock that it's ok to (say) advocate assassination, wage pre-emptive war, and claim that Europe is committing "racial suicide", why, convincing them to vote for a Jew would be a walk in the park.

[Jara sang]

48. Bullshit, fundies hate Jews. All fundies are racist.

They merely put up with them because they are an ally against Muslims and they play a role in their sick rapture apocalyptic play.

[bunkerbuster1]

54. Fundies also believe in conversion.

They could be persuaded that a candidate was going to convert to Christianity, if enough megachurch charlatans were lined up to claim as much.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

56. Sounds like you have some personal experience

with this subject.

[cdb]

7. Nope.

Not with the influence of the fundies in the red states. Not a chance. And, can you imagine what falwell, dobson and all those ass clowns would say?

[meganmonkey]

8. Our current president is certainly not Christian

So apparently the answer is 'Yes'.

[Ravenseye]

18. What do you mean?

It's not christian to kill tens of thousands of innocent people in war, advocate and require torture, spy on your own people, endanger the lives of your intelligence officers, take away funding from the poor, promise money to those devestated by nature's wrath and not follow up, allow the energy companies to steal from poor people.....

[Ilsa]

9. I have questions about the true nature of current president's faith.

I know I am supposed to "accept" it, but I'm more inclined to wager on the depth of faith of a number of people serving long sentences in penitentiaries. Just because they've made huge mistakes doesn't mean they are godless. Bush, on the other hand, seems to exercise lack of faith o a frequent basis, given his destruction of social safety nets and his unrepentent desire for the murder of thousands of others. Some of this was obvious when he was governor.

[pocket]

10. do Mormons count?

.

[Tesha]

50. Mitt can forget it. They'll humor him, but they won't vote for him. (NT)

[liberal N proud]

11. Only if he lies and pretends to be the most Godly man on earth

Just like the current emperor

[Jackpine Radical]

15. My liberal Christian friends say a non-Christian already "won"

in 2000 and 2004.

God, ya gotta be fast around here to be a successful smartass.

[Ravenseye]

12. No

Congressman yes but depends on the district.
Senator - yes but depends on the state.
President - Maybe.

I think it depends on the candidate and the party they run under. For instance if the Democratic party were to put up a black female candidate she'd stand probably no chance against the outraged racist republican base, but if there were say a black female candidate running on the Republican ticket, she might stand a better chance. Same thing for anything race, religion etc. A Jewish Republican stands a better chance than a Jewish Democrat. A Republican Jew from Texas would have a far better shot than say a Democratic Jew from New York.

A Mormon would be tough to put in and a Muslim would be impossible. As would any religion that the majority of american views, rightly or wrongly, as extreme such as Hari Krishna, Hindu, Buddhist, etc. They stand no chance whatsoever.

[Canuckistanian]

14. Impossible.

Almost the first question asked of a candidate is "What is your faith?"

So, what would the alternatives be? Jewish? Muslim? Not in a thousand years.

Agnostic? Atheist? A fate worse than death. Can you imagine the outcries of the faux-religious pundits?
"He/She has no moral foundations!"

Simple answer - when Heck freezes over.

[Ishoutandscream2]

17. President? No.

[Armstead]

19. If he is in tune with America otherwise

[C_U_L8R]

20. Bush did

and he's certainly no Christian....
but it is debatable whether he actually "won" the election

[moobu2]

21. lol never… I’m an atheist

[Ufomammut]

22. Not while we're in the death throes of a "Holy" War

[sutz12]

23. Maybe in the next century...

if we are still a democracy by then.

[yurbud]

24. Jews seem less "other" now than Catholics did when JFK ran

The same Christian conservatives who balked at Kennedy now think being Jewish is so cool they adopt Jewish rituals and become "born again Jews," a weird inversion of Jews for Jesus.

[Ravenseye]

25. Yes, Absolutely, It's Already Happened

I change my answer above...
http://monotheism.us/

“My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures, have become clearer and stronger with advancing years and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them.”
Abraham Lincoln

Also in addition to all that jazz on that link...How many of them just went through the motions? What does it mean to be a christian? What if you're an athiest but your'e 22 and realize that you want to be a Senator or Presidnet someday and you know that you need to go to church, so for the next 30 years you just make it a habit to go at least once or twice a month so that you're covered for that answer even though you think it's bullshit?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

27. Given that something like 85% of the population

describes themselves as Christian, it might be difficult.

It all depends on the candidate, I think. It would take an absolutely stellar individual.

In today's climate? Not likely.

[Czolgosz]

28. So far, 43 out of 43 Presidents have been Christian, but 43 out of 43 have

also been white, and male, and -- someday -- I hope a woman, a non-Christian, and a racial minority wins the Presidency, but it'll be an up-hill battle. Frankly, given the paricular religious, racial, and gender biases within the GOP, I think a non-Christian, a non-white, or a woman would stand a better chance in the general election as the GOP nominee (but I don't see such a person winning that party's nomination in the immediate future).

[pitohui]

89. where do you get your numbers?

george washington the very first president wasn't christian and said so

[Czolgosz]

94. I understand Washington was a Christian when elected and his doubts grew

later in his life. If I'm wrong, please correct me, but didn't Washington say, "You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ," in a speech to native Americans?

[HamdenRice]

29. Some thoughts on a Jewish president and the Middle East

It is somewhat strange to come across this thread, because I was thinking about just this topic as I read the paper today, and saw a report of Russ Feingold calling for a censure of Bush. It also mentioned that Feingold, who is Jewish, has presidential ambitions.

I think that the American public is generally ready for a Jewish president, on the domestic merits; in other words, I don't anti-Semitism is strong enough to influence an election between a Jewish candidate and a Christian candidate.

But under current international circumstances, I think most Americans would not vote for Jewish candidate, simply because in the back of everyone's mind would be the fear that this would provoke chaos in the Middle East. This would be regardless of whether the Jewish president was a strong supporter of Israel or not.

If we had a Jewish president, then from the Arab perspective, Iraq would be a colony of a country run by a Jew. Regardless of the truth, that would be a perception overseas, and that very well could cause Iraq to spiral even more out of control.

This was an undercurrent in the 2004 election. A lot of people who had no problem with Lieberman being Jewish hinted that simply the appearance of a Jewish president during the negotiation of an Israel-Palestine peace would make things more difficult.

On the other hand, a fiercely non-Zionist Jewish president could have a Nixon-in-China legitimacy to put the country on a more rational course in the middle east.

[newportdadde]

30. Probably not. I mean you could just live by the golden rule and

actually live your life in deeds better then someone of whatever faith and it still wouldn't matter.

The country wants at a minimum lip service that you believe strongly in a faith. Now you may not actually live by that code at all but nobody really looks at that. Lets be honest here many people who are deeply religious do pretty unreligious things, either at work to coworkers or at home etc.

I don't believe even a person who did read the bible but in private and did not attend actual services would be tolerated.

[BiggJawn]

31. You must be joking.

I seriously doubt a non-Christian could be elected DOGCATCHER in this Theocracy.

If you dug a little, I think you'd find that popular sentiment echos that of Poppy Bush, who said:

"... I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."

"...and all you Jeebus-haters just need to go back to Jeebus-hater-land, where you CAME from!"-The late Telly-vangelist Lester Sumrall

Jews can be elected to Office, but that's OK, since they're seen as some kind of "Pre-Messiah" Xian by the Bubbas of Murka.

Muslims? Hah! An Atheist will sit in the Oval Orifice first..

[Tesha]

32. Nope. (NT)

[no_hypocrisy]

33. Assuming you mean pan-christian which includes Catholics and protestants,

in this day and age, no.

William Howard Taft was a Unitarian and was elected after Theodore Roosevelt. But again, the political coalitions were MUCH different than they are today. And I don't think he'd be the republican that the Machine would put up for a candidate to begin with.

[leftofthedial]

34. well, they "elected" king george twice

and he's no more christian than I am

you have to at least pretend to be a christian.

[mzteris]

36. Evidently!

Bush is NO Christian. He just pretends to be one. ALthough, at this point I think he's deluded even himself. . . at any rate, his "version" of "Christianity" is far removed from the original intent (as is all fundies').

But then again - he didn't really WIN, did he?!?

[A HERETIC I AM]

42. Thomas Jefferson could'nt get elected today....

if his writings regarding his opinions on Christianity and the divinity of Jesus were made public.

That alone is a sad commentary on this country and it's electorate.

[ingac70]

43. I don't see why not....

A false Christian is Pres. right now.

[rpgamerd00d]

44. So, woman, non-white, or non-christian - which has best chance?

Out of the three, which do you all think has the best chance to actually win the Presidency right now (2008) ?

[Fleshdancer]

47. a white christian woman has the best chance out of your choices IMO

a christian non-white man would be second and I don't see a proclaimed non-christian making it very far at all anytime soon.

However, when it comes to actual practice of religion, I think it's safe to say we already have a non-christian in the WH.

[rpgamerd00d]

51. What about this :

- White Christian Woman
- Non-White Christian Man
- White Non-Chrstian Man

?

[Misunderestimator]

65. A Republican "Christian" woman has the best chance, black or white.

Unless we fix the system.

[BuyingThyme]

46. Only if he lies like a Christian.

[Jara sang]

49. Hell no. Look what happened when a Roman Catholic was elected.

[maveric]

55. We had a Catholic once and he was hated for that affiliation.

Some "Christians" dont consider Catholic true Christians. I still havent figured that one out yet. Wasnt Catholicism the FIRST church of Jesus Christ.

I truly beleive that a non-Christian, a minority or even a woman would be a terribly hard sell to the "Murikan" voters in red states.

[LanternWaste]

58. I think yes.

I think yes.

Yes, if a few prequalifications were met (and I'll be using the pronous "he" rather than "he or she" to cut down on typing)

He had zero (or relatively few) skeletons in his closet.

He was an affable person who could speak his mind w/o appearing to "talk down" to the masses.

He was a war veteran (as opposed to a veteran)

The industry he comes from is not a legal/media/entertainment profession.

The corker: His platform allows for the strengthening of cherry-picked political issues framed into a religious context, i.e., Environmentalism becomes "Responsible Stewardship of the planet..."

His major issues were meat-and-potat(e) issues, such as Defending Mom, Education, Defense, etc.

Between our hypothetical candidate and his opponent in a general election, I think the first one to actually use religion as a resume stuffer and plank position would be the loser.

[Nutmegger]

61. I was going to ask something similar

I doubt it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

64. Sure. But, watch out for the falling pig shit and reserve the ski-lift in

hell.

[misanthrope]

66. No way. No how...

...The vast majority of Americans are too conservative for such.

[Hippo_Tron]

67. It could turn out that his opponent is a child molester...

Very late in the campaign.

My point is that while it would probably be a handicap, nothing is impossible ESPECIALLY if there is some big October surprise.

[rpgamerd00d]

69. OK, could someone keep their faith private and still win election ?

Anyone?

[BiggJawn]

72. Nope, it's a Litmus Test.

A candidate is expected to press the flesh and officiate over "prayer breakfasts" and the like, and say stuff like "In these Dark Times, my family and I take strength through our Personal Relationship with Kee-Ryst, who strengthens us.."

last month, the local ReTHUGs had their annual "spring lunch" and there was a local rattlesnake preacher there lobbying, and he said "I'm not here as a Republican OR a Democrat. I'm here because I'm concerned about matters that concern Christians, like Internet Porn..."

In other words, he was there whoring to the candidates, "I got endorsements and 200 votes for sale to any who'll give me 5 minutes and agree to shut-off that evil Internet!"

"In matters of Faith, the candidate has been less than forthcoming, but FAUX Nooz has this exclusive footage of nobody getting in any cars and going anywhere on 3 consecutive Sunday mornings. On the FOURTH Sunday, the Candidate and his 'girlfriend'(who he's not married to!) left in his truck, and we followed them to a local flea market, where they bought china and old cameras... What kind of Faith do you suppose someone who never goes to CHURCH follows?"

[rpgamerd00d]

74. A litmus test on religion is illegal.

They could make that an issue, I would think.

[BiggJawn]

77. An OFFICIAL litmus test is illegal.

Nothing there to say the Press (at the urging of your opponent) can't put your shit in the street.

You KNOW thats true.

[rpgamerd00d]

78. Do you think the media bias could be overcome ?

Do you think a strategy could be used to counter it?

[BiggJawn]

91. No, I don't.

What could one expect? "positive portrayals" of Avowed Atheists on TV? An Atheist cooking show on Food? ("See? There's no babies in my Fridge!" "Check out this plate of Fictional Evil Charactered Eggs!")

The media bias only reflects the popular culture, Except for the double standard that says "Things that we wouldn't even yawn about in Just Plain Folks becomes a moral OUTRAGE when being practiced by someone who wants my VOTE!"

Does anyone give a shit if the guy down the street screws around on his wife? No, unless he's a Democrat running for office. Same thing if he's Gay, nobody gives a shit unless he's running for something.

But, my impression is that even if he WASN'T running for office, the whole neighbourhood would be a-twitter if he was an Atheist.

[Strong Atheist]

70. An atheist will NEVER be president. Why can't you do a poll?

Shoudn't this be in R&T?

[rpgamerd00d]

73. What if the athiest simply refused to reveal it?

Only paying members can post polls.

[Strong Atheist]

81. Only paying members can post polls? I did not know that. Always

learning more of the quirks of this place...

It would pretty much be impossible for an atheist with a sense of self worth not to reveal it during the campaign at some point; like on sundays ...

[me b zola]

75. Is America ready for an alcoholic, coke-snorting prez?

.....nobody would have said yes had that question been posed to voters, yet that is who took (literally) the office in 2000 and again in '04.

A non-christian candidate could win the presidency if they have the right stuff :)

[Perky]

79. Corrolary: Can an overtly Christian Democrat be nominated???

Can a new "Jimmy Carter" type emerge and could he win the nomination?

[rpgamerd00d]

80. I would submit to you, that if we believe that a non-Xtian cannot be ....

... elected, then we damn well BETTER nominate an Overt Christian.

[Perky]

85. an interesting response. (EOM)

[mmonk]

87. No.

Maybe before bush and the neocons, but no chance now.

[pitohui]

88. not a chance these days

non-christians held the presidency in days gone by, but we are a far cry from the days when an admitted and open deist like george washington would be allowed such power

i doubt that most modern presidents believe in christianity any more than ol george did but their vague deism or atheism is hidden in the closet these days

[Jack Rabbit]

90. Technically, a Unitarian is not a Christian

A Unitarian rejects the doctrine of the Trinity.

Adams (both), Jefferson and Taft were all Unitarians.

[WinkyDink]

93. Why? Is a Christian in the White House NOW??

[WI_DEM]

95. maybe

a Jew could. But we will never know unless we nominate a non-christian.