60 Minutes this Sunday: Another spy speaks out; the war was fixed

[Faygo Kid]

You know, I am glad to see these people coming forward. But except for Rush Limbaugh fans, I cannot imagine at this point that any more evidence that we were lied into an unnecessary war need be forthcoming. It's overwhelming at this point. I will watch, though.

"The policy was set. The war in Iraq was coming and they were looking for intelligence to fit into the policy."

Tyler Drumheller

(CBS) A CIA official who had a top role during the run-up to the Iraqi war charges the White House with ignoring intelligence that said there were no weapons of mass destruction or an active nuclear program in Iraq.

The former highest ranking CIA officer in Europe, Tyler Drumheller, also says that while the intelligence community did give the White House some bad intelligence, it also gave the White House good intelligence — which the administration chose to ignore.

Drumheller talks to 60 Minutes correspondent Ed Bradley in his first television interview this Sunday, April 23 at 7 p.m. ET/PT. (article continues)http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/21/60minutes/main1527749.shtml

[saltpoint]

1. That one phrase, "...which the administration chose to ignore" -- is the

hinge for me. It characterizes the attitude the administration carries in just about everything.

Impudent, clueless, manipulative, arrogant, full-of-itself, and smirkingly proud of its presumed upperhand. And when they're challenged formidably, they get Karl to rev up the swiftboats.

Thanks for the heads-up on this program. I will try to tune in.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

2. Cheney

While this was going on, people in the CIA and other agencies were making it known that Cheney's office was demanding specific, unvetted information to back up their lying claims.

Sy Hersh documented all of this early on in his New Yorker coverage.

No one listened.

Bastards.

[saltpoint]

5. Hey there, OldLeftieLawyer. Yes. Hersh is a treasure. 'Have been

looking through his recent article in NEW YORKER and while I still think he's one of the best investigative reporters going, I am nevertheless horrified by the no-doubt accurate accounts from insiders of the Bush folks' temperament and attitude.

In past posts I've likened their attitude to that of a prepubescent bully on a playground.

No matter someone's political bias, I think this presidency is over with.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

12. You know what, Crusoe?

We were right. From the beginning, when we believed Scott Ritter and David Kay, and didn't believe Fuckface or Colin Powell or Dickless Cheney, we were right.

No one listened.

But, we were right.

His "presidency" is condemned, like the toxic site that it always was, but the damage continues, the kids are still getting killed, we're in - maybe? - the worst shape our country's ever been in, and generations will pay for this rotten sonofabitch's arrogance and personal relationship with god.

I'm no believer, but if there is some kind of deity, I'd be glad to help devise whatever eternal damnation would be appropriate for these murderous, lying monsters called "The Bush Administration."

[Faygo Kid]

13. I bow to your wisdom. Another old lawyer agrees.

I'm no believer either, but I have to admit there is power in belief. "Until justice rolls down like waters, and righteousness like a mighty stream." And, "If we shall suppose that American Slavery is one of those offences which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South, this terrible war, as the woe due to those by whom the offence came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a Living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope--fervently do we pray--that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue, until all the wealth piled by the bond-man's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash, shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord, are true and righteous altogether"

There is something to be said for respect for words and commitment like that. Like what we are.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

15. I'm sure you have read

"Why Lincoln Matters," by Mario Cuomo, but, if you haven't, you must.

Thank you for the reminder of those glorious words, that authentic and eternal sentiment.

I really do want to climb up in that Texas tower and start shooting. Charles Whitman, I am channeling thee .....................

[saltpoint]

14. And the Republicans can't blame Joan Baez this time, either.

Or "the hippies," or the "black panthers," or the "gray panthers," or Daniel Elsberg, or anyone else.

They'll keep trying to blame the liberal media, but that isn't going over these days much. FOX News has been the undoing of "the liberal media" argument, because even the thick-headed Republican voters know FOX for what it is -- a shill for the administration.

Part of what I like about your psots on DU is the overall agreement of purpose and point, but damn it all, I sure do love the way your sentences crackle.

A tall cold one for OldLeftie Lawyer, bartender, and make it snappy.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

16. I gotcher blame right here, Fuckface................

[OldLeftieLawyer]

17. Seriously, though, you're right

They've run out of people to blame. There are no more villains left, and they're standing naked in the spotlight of verifiable truth.

The clock is ticking. Fitzgerald will be working harder now that the Ryan trial has concluded. The rest of it will unwind as it should because it's so easily deconstructed, so easily documented, and, ultimately, so blatantly treasonous.

There are no more shills for this bunch of murderous, lying, up-from-the-scum thugs; the rats desert far too quickly, as we all know.

Let God take care of them. After all, they've done everything they could to turn this fucking REPUBLIC - the one that keeps us FREE FROM RELIGION - into a theocracy.

And now, isn't it ironic, that a genuine theocracy like Iran is poised to sodomize, in the most loving way possible, all these feckless wankers?

Pass the lube.

(And thanks for your kind words.)

[saltpoint]

18. The deeproot of my objection to the Bush administration is

their failure to be public servants. To cheat to win (very likely twice) and then strut around on aircraft carriers bragging about "mission accomplished," well, you know the story.

It's un-adult-like conduct. I want to ask Rumsfeld, "What good's your high IQ if it's given over to dark purposes?" And to Powell, "Why can't the part of you that seeks opportunity for disenfranchised minorities stand up against a little puke like George Bush?" And to Condiliar, "You left Brahms for this pack of assholes?" And so forth.

That's the root of my objection. Ok, there's a strong partisan factor, too, but at pure essence, it's that betrayal of ideals that roils me.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

19. Because you're a patriot

Because you love your country.

Yeah, nothing like betrayal.

I wrote a novel that ended, on the last page, with a quote about loyalty. It was about between friends, but it was also about dedication to beliefs and ideals, and I think the last lines were something like "Loyalty. Without it, there is nothing."

I know, pal. I know.

[saltpoint]

20. . . .

:thumbsup:

:hi:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

21. Whether you're a fan

of Jackson Browne or not, I'd recommend your getting a copy of his album, "Lives In The Balance," and give it a listen. It's been runing through my head all week, and, by the way, I wear a ruby in the shape of a heart on a gold chain around my neck ........

http://www.jrp-graphics.com/jb/litb.html

[saltpoint]

22. I'm not a fan of Jackson Browne -- I'm a ZEALOT. If a Hell were designed

for me it would be a place that prohibits his recordings. That would be unspeakably cruel.

LIVES IN THE BALANCE is the soundtrack to the Reagan-era death-squads, the disgraceful way that administration behaved toward agrarian reform in Central America, etc., etc., etc.

I trust Jackson Browne to get it right, whether it's his stuff on personal relationships or his political work. What a songwriter.

_ _ _

And there’s a shadow on the faces
Of the men who send the guns
To the wars that are fought in places
Where their business interest runs

_ _ _

Bull's eye for Mr. Browne's team.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

23. Ah...............

Another reason for me to be a little bit nuts about you.

I also have the lyrics of "I Am A Patriot" running through my head over and over.

http://lyrics.duble.com/lyrics/J/jackson-browne-lyrics/jackson-browne-i-am-a-patriot-lyrics.htm

[saltpoint]

24. You know, OldLeftieLawyer, we ought to throw a dinner party for

all interested persons and invite Mario Cuomo and Jackson Browne.

Your heart-shaped ruby sounds perfect, by the way. I like the purpose of it and the poetry, too.

It's mostly non-political but I also love Browne's song "Farther On." It knocks me out.

_ _ _

...and the angels are older
They can see that the sun's sinking fast
They look over my shoulder
At the vision of paradise
Contained in the light of the past

And they lay down behind me
To sleep beside the road
'Til the morning has come
Where they know they can find me
With my maps and my faith in the distance,
Moving farther on...

_ _ _

You're tops, OLL. Tops.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

27. You got a bit beyond tops, my friend -

you give me hope, a quantity in sorely short supply these days.

"... and they pick up a gun or a brick or a stone ......."

Thanks, Crusoe, amico mio. Mille grazie.

[saltpoint]

36. We're pals, darlin'. Anybody says different gits their teeth bashed.

'specially Republicans!

Buenas noches, mi amiga buena.

[vanlassie]

25. Jackson Browne is a god to me.

I want to know who the men in the shadows are
I want to hear somebody asking them why
they can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are
but they're never the ones
to fight
or to die.



Vanlassie

[saltpoint]

26. Hi to you, vanlassie. Yes. There's another one of those great verses.

Jackson Browne is a powerful talent.

And he hangs out with some of my favorite musicians, too. Bonnie Raitt, James Taylor, etc. A batch of these folks did the No Nukes concert in NYC some years ago now. Some great stuff on that recording.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

28. There's a classic for you

I'm tempted to send out totally illegal copies to anyone who'd want to PM me their mailing address.

How's THAT for subversive?

We used to go see Browne and Linda Ronstadt and Tom Rush and all those guys in the seventies. It seems like a million years ago now.

[saltpoint]

34. It is a classic. I had heard Dylan's "The Times They Are a'Changin'"

many times and honored it a little more each time, but in that No Nukes recording, Carly Simon, Graham Nash, and James Taylor blew me into a far realm at the end of that first verse ("You better start swimmin' or you'll sink like a stone ...") --their rising voices, the break into harmonies, the crowd thrilling to the finish of the phrase. What a lift.

Your idea may have even more punch soon. The nuclear industry must be licking its chops over higher and higher crude oil prices.

Tom Rush is terrific, too. I love his "Child's Song" best of all his works.

As for Ms. Ronstadt, it's hard to see where she hasn't given audiences more than they could ask of her. She has a recording of Warren Zevon's "Hasten Down the Wind" that's on my top-10-ever compositions list.

[Imagevision]

32. Kick & recommend

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

3. When will a program like this be picked up by other media sources?

PBS had a great program about the purposeful manipulation of Intelligence right after we invaded Iraq. One of the clearest voices in the program was Greg Thielmann who worked Intelligence in the State Dept. He also appeared a couple of years ago on 60 Minutes to discuss this. It was stunning, yet ignored. You have also had Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkoski speaking out about how the Office of Special Plans was run, and once again, this was early on. And as we know there have been others.

Here is a link to the Frontline program Truth, War and Consequences -You can watch the entire show online.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/truth/

[Faygo Kid]

4. Good point. There's been a book or two, as well.

Richard Clarke, who should have ended the debate given his credibility. Joe Wilson. So many others; Colin Powell's number two was as angry as you can get. It's still portrayed as a stinking revelation, and it's not any more; I think the American people accept that their "president" is a lying sack of shit with no regard for human life, but the media keeps presenting these people coming forward as "revelations" each time. What a surprise they are! Bullshit. What cowards the media are. And the Dems. And. . .well, it's Friday, so I will calm down now.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

7. I have been perpetually angry for 4 years now as I've known all along

what lying pieces of crap they are. The Media lies by omission and is complicit. I understand your frustration. Take a deep cleansing breath and sing ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. It really does help!

[Faygo Kid]

9. Actually, just back from the store; cranked up "Sympathy for the Devil"

When that came on, I had to say goodbye to ommmmmmmm.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

10. lol!!!!! :)

[flyarm]

33. ohhh dang ommmsweeetommm..i have been singing

that song..ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm for almost 5 years now..and it aint helping!!!

lol....

ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

nope...still not helping dear friend...

i still want to see these pricks all in prison...and i want to be the one to lock the door personally!!..and give them a little of what they have dished out...but that i will save for my dreams...


ommmmmmmmmmmmm..still practicing...


ommmmmmmmmmmmmmm

ommmmmmmmmmmmmm

ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

dang...not working...

fly

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

40. I know my dear friend fly all too well

that these criminals should burn in hell
I don't think I'll ever be calm until I know
That they wear orange jumpsuits and kept under lock and key
Music and lights on 24/7, the place where they ought to be,
In a "delightful" place known as Gitmo.

:hug::loveya: :hi:

your 4 ever friend,
Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Catrina]

31. Greg Thielmann was a colleague of John Kokal, who was 'suicided'

in November 2003 ~ well, they claim he killed himself, but the media never coverend the story ~ and not long after that, near the end of November ~ another 'suicide' happened, of someone who was speaking out against the pre-war intelligence, Gus Weiss, supposedly killed himself.

In John Kokal's case, intially the police did not rule out murder. But then there was nothing. I tried to find out what happened to the investigations.

I wonder what Greg Thielmann thinks about his colleague's 'suicide'. Maybe one day we'll learn the truth about all this. But these two deaths must have had a chilling effect on anyone else who wanted to speak out back then. Greg Thielmann never did stay quiet, though.

Wish I could watch that Frontline show .....

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

38. Wasn't Kokal the one who "jumped" out of the state dept bldg and took

his shoes off before he did? I remember that well. I had no idea he was a collegue of Thielmann.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

39. BTW...if you can't view the program online..go to the site anyway. There

are transcripts of all of the interviews as well as other material.

[killbotfactory]

6. You mean, just like the DSM said?

Hey media, wake up.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

8. The corporate media whores rake in more money by havning us in

a never ending "war on terror". Notice, that even thought the Sociopath in Chief's poll numbers are so depressed, they are still protecting him?

[Justice Is Comin]

11. Paul Pillar

was the left hook. This is the right cross. Down and out for junior.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

29. This is good...it will reach an older audience that still believes....

...that the NeoCons are God's messengers.

[Imagevision]

30. This connected to the CIA officer firing today??

[Jack Rabbit]

35. And this is going to be on television Sunday night

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[Imagevision]

37. This is so very good, Monday Fitz should indict Rove...!