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Raoul Donating Member (666 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 04:18 PM
Original message
A Sputnik Moment? Bullshit!!
 
Run time: 06:19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPeJYfxtKlk
 
Posted on YouTube: January 27, 2011
By YouTube Member: raoul116
Views on YouTube: 0
 
Posted on DU: January 27, 2011
By DU Member: Raoul
Views on DU: 1288
 
The real news behind the Russian space program vs. ours.
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bulloney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sounds like the military has a loonnng history of keeping us scared so they can keep the gravy train
coming. Doesn't matter if it's weapons or the space program. Create a boogeyman, make them into a threat to us and keep the money coming which goes toward making STUFF we'll never use.

Back then it was the Soviets. Today, it's the Muslim terrorists.
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Raoul Donating Member (666 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Yep
and that's why I don't believe anything they say any more even if it's partially true. The modus operandi is always the same because the masses always fall for it.
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havbrush Donating Member (60 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. First in Space
This guy went through all of that to relay erroneous information? The USSR brought back Yuri Guagarin from space after 3 orbits 2 years before John Glenn went up. This guy brags about his knowledge and experience as an insider but gives us wrong info. What's up with that? If the SOTU was bullsh@t as he says, so was his supposed info.
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Dokkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. fear and wonder
The obsession of US being No. 1 in everything would be its downfall. China is building fast rail therefore we should do the same and it doesn't matter if China is actually using its own money to do so.

Very informative video, we just need more people to see this info instead of a Justin Bieber crap. Keep up the good work
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Raoul Donating Member (666 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Thanks
and we'll keep on keeping on with this stuff.
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. I am sorry but i respectfully disagree...
Edited on Thu Jan-27-11 05:51 PM by SkyDaddy7
Regardless of the the fact our government does use fear for political reasons...There have been true reasons to be concerned & Sputnik was one of those times.

The Russians were most certainly ahead of us in the beginning. They put the 1st satellite in orbit Sputnik. And yes it did mean something very important it meant they the ability drop a bomb on us with that technology. Fear or no fear that is simply the truth.

And YES the Russians were the 1st country to put a man in orbit & bring him back safely. Now they may have killed a few trying but they did it before us...And that is simply the truth.

And the so-called Sputnik Moment may have did spur on a ton of government spending & one can disagree with how it was spent but it did create jobs, new industry military & non military...Studies have shown we got $14 back for every $1 we spent in the so-called space race.

I am sorry but nothing I have ever read about JFK makes me belive he was out to screw the American people.

Obama was not trying to scare anyone he was simply telling the truth...I am sorry but his call for new investments in science, education & research & development had NOTHING to do with the military! It had everything to do with solar, wind & various other new technologies that WILL BE the industries of the future...And if we do get out ahead it will create untold jobs down the the road & we will be able to sell our technology to the world rather than buy it from China or Europe.

I am beside myself at what the people who think Obama speech was "bullshit" think is the path to the future for the American middle class if it is not funding public/private partnerships to create new industries & jobs that will remain here.

I can understand being cynical due to our government's use of fear but I think we need to take a step back...Obama was not using fear he was telling the simple truth. Bush used fear after 9/11 for reasons we all know about. Obama is saying without investments in our public infrastructure & education & especially research & development how do we ever expect to create enough good paying jobs to rebuild the middle class?

What do the nay sayers want? For Obama to call for the total elimination or the defense budget, nationalize all industry & end capitalism? I am not being cynical I am confused at what people expect to do in order to rebuild the middle class if they think what Obama said was "bullshit".

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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. There is no justification for this level
of military spending at half its present level. No one is calling for total elimination of the defense budget but out spending the entire combined world when there is no Soviet Union threat is absurd. Why would you characterize our desire to rein in the MIC is such a way.

You tell me your justification for outspending the entire combined world. I want to hear this shit.
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Raoul Donating Member (666 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I should have
just let you respond to him/her - you said it more concisely than I could. Thanks.
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. No, I totally agree!!!!!
I am all for cutting the defense budget and so is Obama, the Joint Chiefs & Gates...The problem is Congress! Military contractors split their projects up into many congressional districts so that they know it is highly unlikely there will be the votes to cut them. The Military Industrial Complex!

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Raoul Donating Member (666 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Incredible!
I was stationed in Sinop, Turkey from 10/63 to 10/64 with the U.S. Army Security Agency. We monitored their programs and we saw the disastrous results of same. You were not there and are only spouting what you obviously have been taught or brainwashed to believe.

We got back 14 dollars for 1 invested? Who's this 'we'? Corporations, of course but not any of us. And please cite a source regarding what you said about the Russians being first to SAFELY bring them back alive. I know Yuri Gagarin(sic) was supposedly the first one to come back however, the point of my video was to show how they slaughtered others to be first.

In addition - the sputnik could have been used as a bomb?? That would be laughable if not so sad because it shows your complete lack of science regarding atmospheric pressure, gravitational pull, etc.
Back in the 60s the Soviets had NO such capabilities nor would have any for at least 10 or more years based on intelligence reports I was privey to.

And yeah, a total elimination or near elimination of the war machine would instantly create the money desperately needed for our country. We wage war for money - plain and simple and nothing else!

Your naivety is dangerous. Obama was telling the 'simple truth'? I guess he's really one of us even though Goldman Sachs gave his campaign almost a billion dollars.

You're free to blindly follow the bs but don't try and make me out to be a liar when I was there and you weren't. In fact, do you have any military background? If so - what kind and was it in the intelligence area?
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Dokkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. small correction
Goldman sachs gave Obama $1 million ish not 1 billion. But I think I trust your claim about this before I trust some random guy who was not part of the space program.
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Raoul Donating Member (666 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. An even smaller correction (G)
Actually it was $994,795 (source: www.opensecrets.org).. LOL

A million...a billion... who's counting zeros, right? LOL

Seriously - thanks for the support.
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. WOW! You are a character! Quite the BS slinger!
Edited on Thu Jan-27-11 07:53 PM by SkyDaddy7
You have NO IDEA what my military background is & yet you speak with such arrogant authority! WOW!

And you are so freaking wrong about most of what you say I would have to assume you are slinging BS all the way through!

You said, "I know Yuri Gagarin(sic) was supposedly the first one to come back however, the point of my video was to show how they slaughtered others to be first."

Now go back & read what I said...The Russians could have killed 100 before getting it correct but that does NOT change the fact they did it before we did.

I will try to as respectful as I can be with you as you are obviously so FULL OF YOURSELF & your special "top Secret" clearance YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW IGNORANT & WRONG YOU ARE ON SO MANY LEVELS!

BTW-Top Secret security ratings are a dime a dozen within the military...I know I had one but that is not important.

Me calling you out is where you have forced me to go...

OK "Mr. Top Secret" you said..."In addition - the sputnik could have been used as a bomb?? That would be laughable if not so sad because it shows your complete lack of science regarding atmospheric pressure, gravitational pull, etc.
Back in the 60s the Soviets had NO such capabilities nor would have any for at least 10 or more years based on intelligence reports I was privey to."

Ok, where do I start...I would be very embarrassed if I were you to know that you have been called out spewing BULLSHIT right here in front of everyone on DU! But who knows maybe it does not bother you to ACT like somebody you are not!

Here we go...Pay attention Mr. Top Secret...

I never said Sputnik could be used as bomb. But I guess you had to say that to make yourself feel special. I am very familiar with ICBMs & the ability to put a payload into orbit means you are not that far from being able to bring that payload down in a general area!

Are you aware what an ICBM is? Let me help...ICBM stands for Intercontinental Ballistic Missile & depending on the technology can carry one to more than dozen warheads. The USA actually started work on the technology right after WW2 with technology we got from Germany but stopped...The Russians also got their hands on some of the same technology and in the LATE 50's launched the 1st ICBM ( I think it was called R-7 could be wrong) & not long afterward they used the technology to put Sputnik in orbit! THIS IS WHY AMERICA SAID, "OH SHIT"! This was our "SPUTNIK MOMENT"! We then began dumping enormous amounts of money into this technology & FOR DAMN GOOD REASON, SIR! Or is it "Mr. Top Sercret"?

I LOVE YOUR QUOTE!!! "Back in the 60s the Soviets had NO such capabilities nor would have any for at least 10 or more years based on intelligence reports I was privey to."

...LOL! Sounds all cool & stuff but it is so WRONG yet said with such ARROGANT AUTHORITY! WOW! LOL!

ARE YOU STILL FOLLOWING ME "MR. TOP SECRET"? Obviously your "Top Secret" rating did not allow you to read newspapers in the 60's? Like I said Top Secret Clearances are a dime a dozen.

As soon as North Korea puts something in orbit there will be REAL reason to be concerned! You simply do not know what you are talking about when it comes to what Sputnik meant from military stand point! Sorry, you don't.

Dude, I have no idea what else to say except PLEASE TOSS ME SOME MORE SOFTBALLS, "Mr. Top Secret"

Oh yeah, it was all a smoke screen that the Russians & the USA agreed to lie about to their people...So they both could have an excuse to fund useless military projects & space projects?

We really did not have ICBM Technology in the 60's because "Mr. Top Secret" would have been "Privey" to it, huh?

FAIL! TRY AGAIN!

Good Night! If you do decide to respond I will be back in the morning...Please try to be honest & stop with the wannabe authoritarian personality! You are not so good at it.
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Raoul Donating Member (666 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Gee, did I hit a nerve or what?
Edited on Thu Jan-27-11 09:03 PM by Raoul
"They put the 1st satellite in orbit Sputnik. And yes it did mean something very important it meant they the ability drop a bomb on us with that technology. Fear or no fear that is simply the truth."

Your quote from prior message. Now, what exactly were you inferring by that? I look forward to the tap dancing.

And I noticed that you didn't say what your military background was. But once more - care to share with me your military background at the ripe old age of 37 (I believe that's what your profile said).

Sorry if I hit a few raw nerves but tough shit. If top secret clearances are a 'dime a dozen' then did you have one or is this just a hissy fit from a jealous redneck with no brains? The Mr. Top Secret tag you hurled at me screams out your own failure as a real patriot and a bit of jealousy to boot. Don't be jealous okay? I wasn't particularly very gung ho and only served my 3 years of active duty so don't be mad if you were too chickenshit to serve okay? LOL

One other quote from you to finish this joke of a thread:

"Oh yeah, it was all a smoke screen that the Russians & the USA agreed to lie about to their people...So they both could have an excuse to fund useless military projects & space projects?"

OF COURSE! You finally get it or actually you don't. You actually question something that most of the intelligent folks (key word - intelligent) already know. The CIA and KGB, at times when it was decided to be of mutual benefit, WORKED in concert on things. The CIA had its turf so to speak and the KGB had its own. Why do you think an actual hot war NEVER broke out between the USSR and the US?

Care to share your profound views about this Einstein?

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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Tap dancing & BS slinging is your specialty...Not mine.
Look, my first reply to you was respectable, no name calling I just pointed out although I agree with you about our government's unnecessary use of fear for political reasons should be criticized but that much of what you were claiming about the "Sputnik Moment" simply was not true & it was not...I clearly showed that. This DID hit a nerve with you (Which I was not intending to do but oh well) & in your reply you tried to be a hot shot & you threw out a bunch of PURE CRAP you thought would go unquestioned & you were wrong about that as well..

Face it, most of what you said was pure BS! LOL! My guess is most of what you claimed you did in the 60's is BS as well considering what I know you tried so hard to say with such arrogant authority was flat out wrong...But that is on you all I can speak for is what I know to be true & what I know you said was wrong. From what country got a payload into orbit first, got the 1st human into orbit & back safely, to the fact the Russians did not have the missile technology to hit us with nukes in the 60's...Among other completely made up stuff.

OK, let me explain this to you AGAIN...The technology needed to launch Sputnik is basically the same technology used to launch nuclear weapons...ICBM Intercontinental Ballistic Missile. The exact technology you claimed did not exist while you were doing your so-called top secret spying missions in the 60's. When in fact it was operational in the 50's!

If you want to act like the Cold War was just secret scheme between the Russians & US to fool not only their people (Why the Soviets would have to do this is beyond me) but the rest of the world for the sole purpose of spending untold amount of money making shit that had no purpose then that is your right...Its absurd, but that is your right.

You know what you said in your prior posts was made up BS...We both know this & anyone else who followed the conversation does as well. I think the tap dancing redneck with no brains is represented in your post, not mine. It is obvious you have an authoritarian attitude that can't stand to be questioned & for that I do feel a bit sorry for you.

And since you are so interested I was in the US Air Force stationed at Vandenberg AFB, Ca. (US Air Force Space Command) 30th Space Wing where I worked in launch support services dealing with the test launching of ICBMs (The Minute Man & The LGM-118 Peace Keeper)...Much has changed since I was in but not the fact the same technology that launched Sputnik in the late 50's is basically the same technology to launch nuclear weapons that existed in the late 50's...Despite your so-called Top Secret claims that such technology did not exist in the 60's...Which was what most of this back & forth was about to begin with.

I wish you & your wife the best...And I will continue to watch your videos as I may disagree with some of what you say I like the format & the humor...But I might speak up again as that is my right.



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Raoul Donating Member (666 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. You could do what you want
but no one will be here to respond in the future. I just posted a couple of pics including one with me in it just to show the base where I was. The things I spoke about in the video were not bs as you put it and as the thread proves, you are the one lying, not me about everyone else knowing this is bs. It seems YOU'RE the only one who tried to make me out to be a liar. And that's what this whole thing was about - you actually saying, in so many words, I was lying.

I don't take kindly to that kind of behavior. I don't mind ad hominems per se - God knows the right wing community knows this. In fact I relish them. But when someone says I'm a liar, then that's a totally different story. Case in point - a direct quote from you: "My guess is most of what you claimed you did in the 60's is BS"

That's exactly the same as calling me a liar and therefore deserves the replies I gave you.

and another quote: you threw out a bunch of PURE CRAP you thought would go unquestioned & you were wrong about that as well..

So that's why I posted this 'crap' on a fucking PUBLIC board right? I assumed no one would comment, right? ROFL Seriously, I've been questioned before but I have NEVER been called a liar except from extreme right wing bible thumpers especially from the South.

Last quote says more about you than me: You know what you said in your prior posts was made up BS...We both know this & anyone else who followed the conversation does as well.

1. I 'know' I lied? So that makes me a pathological liar as well right?
2. Anyone else following this thread knows this? Who the fuck are you, God? You speak for the others around here? Where's this 'anyone else' you speak about by the way? Now, what were you saying about my having an 'authoritative' persona? LOL

And I love the psychological transference you played with regarding my 'authoritarian' behavior. Try telling that to the lovely lady who was sitting on my lap. She and I disagree on quite a few things but never allow differences to get in the way of critical thought. And she has caused me to change my mind about views I've held so many times that I cannot count.

You also claim to 'feel sorry for me' - why is that the most common term used by unstable people when they try to take someone like me on? I've lost count of the times I've had bible thumpers and right wing zealots say those SAME words. The psychological nuance of it is obvious - by 'feeling sorry' you can make yourself feel superior to the 'sick' opponent. ROFL

All of the real bs was spouted by YOU - taken from obvious defense dept. or pro gov. sites. That thing you wrote about us getting back 14 bucks for every 1 spent was a dead giveaway - the EXACT words used by the defense dept. and other pro military corporations.

And no, you didn't strike any nerve at all except calling me a liar. In fact, if one goes back to the beginning of this rather strident thread they could see the duplicity you employed, something the politicians do all of the time. You began with the bullshit about politely disagreeing with me but then proceeded to show that I made all of this up which I didn't.

But just to end this sordid thing - I won't bother you any longer. You are free to think what you want and you can watch future videos by us but I won't be responding since you obviously are or.. well, I'll just let that go for now. In fact, if you're as ego driven as I think you are, you will feel compelled to respond to my final send off here but I'll let others reply to you and leave it at that.
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radiclib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
13. Hot damn!
I'm bookmarkin' this thread! :popcorn:
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Raoul Donating Member (666 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Don't waste your time
okay. I've seen people like him before - shoot off the mouth, never serve a day in the military but pretends to be an expert on it. And the hissy fit he threw screams out quite a few things which may come to the surface if he doesn't behave himself like a good little boy.
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Raoul Donating Member (666 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
17. A picture of some GIs and me in Turkey
Edited on Fri Jan-28-11 08:07 AM by Raoul
Just a bit more verification of what I spoke about earlier. A guy whom I don't remember at all actually snapped some pics of the base I was stationed at and he was there for a few months overlapping my TOD. I'm posting 2 of the pics here for your enjoyment. In the one pic below, left side, he shot a pics of some GIs and astoundingly I was in the group even though I don't remember any of the guys in the pic. I'm the one over at the far right who looks a bit gung ho. LOL

Believe me, I wasn't. In fact I hated the Army after about 2 weeks in boot camp but I LOVED the guys I served with both in Turkey and later in Germany.

The second pic on the right below show the Xmas party in Dec/63. Note the sinister looking guys in dark suits sitting at the one table. I laughed when I saw it because they are SOOO obvious ain't they? Hmmm... I wonder if they were NSA or CIA...hmmm... ROFL


You can find these pics and some more interestings ones showing the base at: Joe Howard's Sinop Photo Page. On the first page you'll find a title of the pics he took and they are really beautiful. The site address is:
http://www.tuslogdet4.com/sinop/howard/howard.htm





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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
20. Well....Did we really ever land on the moon?
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Raoul Donating Member (666 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Yes
In fact I just came back from there the other day.. ROFL

Seriously -
Who knows?
and more importantly
Who cares?

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