What is the legal name for this?

[The Backlash Cometh]

You see it everywhere, but I want to bring it down to the lowest level:

Take a boardmember on the Architectural Review Board (ARB) of a HOA, and let's say that they review your plans for something that you already knew you could legally build on your own property, but you're trying to be a good sport and go along with the HOA rules, even though it's obvious the HOA is dysfuntional; Then somewhere down the pike, the boardmember starts taking something that isn't his to take, and you're not quite sure why he feels he's owed it. If in their own mind they have determined that it is their's to have as a perk of the position or because they feel they're owed it because they approved everybody else's plans, what is the name of that crime he's committing?

[Fridays Child]

1. Theft?

HOA board members may receive/take nothing unless it's expressly provided in the association's governing documents.

[The Backlash Cometh]

5. It seems so simple, doesn't it?

But because these are business saavy people with connections to conventional business organizations, you just have to wonder why the Florida Department of Law Enforcement hasn't cracked down on these abuses.

[Fridays Child]

11. Maybe what you're talking about is a quid pro quo.

Which may or may not be illegal under the terms of your governing docs.

[The Backlash Cometh]

13. Not possible. There was never a discussion of an exchange.

I simply showed them plans, they approved and that was it. As for the other thing, they've known for years I've never approved of what they're doing. There is no question that I disagree with what they're doing. If we actually had a law enforcement agency that I could trust, I would have turned them in a long time ago.

[Lex]

2. bribery? extortion?

nt

[The Backlash Cometh]

6. Doesn't there have to be a meeting of the minds for any of that?

[Warren Stupidity]

3. Take as in seize something that does not belong to him?

That would be theft. If the person is demanding a transfer of assets from you as a condition of approval of your plans, that would be graft or extortion. It would be bribery if you were offering such a deal without being asked.

[The Backlash Cometh]

9. I definitely consider it theft.

[Kingshakabobo]

4. What did he take?

[The Backlash Cometh]

8. He is attempting an adverse possession of common grounds.

Though not the only one. Even became president of the HOA and tried to advance his claim by keeping the common grounds a secret from the new homeowners, while he was president, however, I think the term "breach of fiduciary responsiblity" may have played a factor in his decision to step down. Now he's just hostily trying to deny everybody else from enjoying the common grounds. His wife plays a big role. I just heard that some new homeowners tried to assemble on a cul de sac near their property for a little get together over one of the holidays and a lady (I assume it was her) threatened to call the police for disturbing the peace. It's like that in my community. There are so many connections between the likes of them and city government because they are shills, helping cover up the city's secrets, that we can't breath without being harrassed. We really have no where to go inside the city, and the state, as long as business networks are a factor, can't be trusted either.

Hear that Hillary Clinton lovers? that's why I'm not for Hillary Clinton. If business networks have infiltrated our government agencies, and we ordinary citizens can't even have self-determination over our own Associations, and enjoy our own common grounds, then the "Village," that you imagine in your little mind, is a lie.

[salin]

17. I am trying to follow this but don't know much about HOAs.

So in the process of getting some building permit, in the documentation something comes up about a common grounds area (presuming that means land that is for use of HOA members and taken care of (upkeep) by the HOA or HOA members), and a member of the building permit/planning commission decides to try to ? seize? usurp the use of ? the common grounds so that s/he gets use (or worse, ownership) of the area?

[The Backlash Cometh]

20. Hi salin.

:hi: The city's building dept. has no part in this. Associations have boards called ARB's that review changes that affect the outside of the homeowners' property. There are rules they have to abide by to protect their legal authority and, in a nutshell, because our boards have been so dysfunctional for so long, they can't legally take action against a homeowner because they haven't acted in good faith.

The only changes I've made to the outside of my property pertained to landscaping so no city permits were required.

The common grounds belong to the Association, not the city. But, the older homeowners have done a great job of driving the effectiveness of the HOA into the ground when they served on the board and used it to follow their own selfish agendas, so now, no one can use it to take legal action, not even against them. Unless we expose and prove their fraudelent intents. And that would be very ugly for everyone involved. Yet, I would do it in a heartbeat if I trusted our court system. Which I don't. Finding an uncompromised lawyer in the area is an impossiblity. That's where the cross between city and business networks makes it impossible for anyone to break the good ole boy network that controls this area.

[salin]

25. Hey TBC!

It sounds like there are two things going on - first is that HOA members of this HOA acted so poorly in the past, that they have been stripped (by whom?) of the ability to take legal action against members for things like acting out of accordance with the HOA agreements - including appropriate use of the common grounds ... which is the second thing going on (mususe of the comon grounds).

Buried in this is the implication that the actors acted badly as board members of the HOA in order to acheive the end of completely discrediting this HOA as an enforceable/enforcing entity.

Give what you have told me before about this small-town collective cover each other's backsides and special interests, I don't know that you can do - except (okay I am about to be a little facetious - as it is a far-fetched hope) hope that the housing market crisis makes your community an attractive alternative to those trying to get out from under way overvalued homes - so that there is a sizeable influx in the population of outsiders - which would change the dynamics (including the ability to keep thumbs on everything via the 'ole boys network'). Seriously I don't know what to say except keep documenting - maticulously, so if the day/opportunity ever arises where some of these folks do find themselves in a day of reckoning scenario - you not only have you and your interests covered, but you also have potential fuel to feed the fire.

[The Backlash Cometh]

28. "Keep documenting"

You know I am, you know I am. ;-)

[mitchtv]

18. well, you lost me at Hillary

They sound like republics to me.

[The Backlash Cometh]

21. Mostly Republics and at least one major local Democrat

and maybe two with strong Democratic connections outside the state. But mostly, Republics.

[canetoad]

7. Can you expound on the circumstances?

It's difficult to know exactly what you mean.

Is the ARB what we in Oz call the Town Planning Department at local government level, where building/planning permits are issued? If so, I believe there is a fair amount of petty corruption, back-scratching and favours for mates going on.

Are members of the ARB architects or functionaries?

[The Backlash Cometh]

12. See #8.

Very few ARB members ever had architectural background. Most of the decisions they made were based on aesthetics. For years, my neighbor's wife harrassed me whenever I tried to plant a bush or any plant that would have interferred with her peripheral view of the golfcourse. She abused her husband's position on the ARB by making a scene whenever there was a whisper that I wanted to landscape my backyard, until I finally understood how much she was interferring with the enjoyment of my own propertly. In the end, she blocked her own view by 98% just so she could block my view by 104%. I know what you're saying. How do you block more than 100%? Easy. by planting bushes on property that doesn't belong to you.

[Rex]

10. Graft, at one time it was illegal.

Nowadays you get a medal of freedom for it! :mad:

[The Backlash Cometh]

14. Yeah. Everything is more complicated now that we're running government

like business.

[porphyrian]

15. You have reported/will report them, yes?

I'm not sure exactly which department would handle the case, but here's a list of the departments with links to their websites and contact info: http://myflorida.com/directory/

Now, if they are doing what they're doing as a matter of policy, you can bet they have a team of lawyers to justify and defend it. However, if this is not policy, but rather the unsavory actions of an individual, you have a good chance of doing something about this. Either way, you should get your complaint on record, even if nothing comes of it until we get another Democratic governor.

[The Backlash Cometh]

16. I live in the heartland of a good ole boy system.

I've tried everything. It's not going to matter. The forces that be have protected these people from far more serious matters.

[mitchtv]

19. sounds like you need a lawyer more than a cop

sounds like 'civil' encroachment

[The Backlash Cometh]

22. Already tried three. Each one more compromised than the last.

They should be knocking at my door soliciting my business because everyone that leads me down a dead end, seems to get a "bump" in their good fortune.

Can't afford to do it their way, any more.

[porphyrian]

35. That sucks, then. Are you sure there's no regulating agency with the main office in Tallahassee?

Sometimes you just need to talk to the right person.

[The Backlash Cometh]

37. I've been trying to keep my head down for many reasons, but whenever

someone in the neighborhood tells me another story of what is happening down the lane, it just sets me off, which is why I posted this thread. To release some steam. For the most part, I'm not going to stick my neck out again looking for another regulatory agency. And I have tried. And the people I have communicated with seem to get promotions soon after they send me down a deadend. I know I'm being sensitive about that, but that isn't too difficult to confirm. I figure if we can't depend on our regulatory agencies to properly investigate Cheney, Rove and Bush because of political appointments, then I'm not going to have much success navigating through waters that are mined with shills from both parties.

[CorpGovActivist]

23. Depending on Circumstances or Degree...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_%28law%29">"conversion"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trespass_to_chattels">"trespass to chattels"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_conversion">"criminal conversion"

or even embezzlement.

Hope that helps.

- Dave

[The Backlash Cometh]

24. I LOVE YOU!

I certainly don't know if it will fly in our corrupted courts, but, God, does it make my heart glad to know that someone anticipated the abuse of our property rights. Thanks, it has given me food for thought.

[CorpGovActivist]

26. Love the Law...

... more often than not, English common law has handed down a tort that covers any given situation.

: )

- Dave

[CorpGovActivist]

27. P.S.

You may find that you'll get further along with an attorney if you can name a series of torts that may apply.

; )

Torts imply damages; damages entail attorneys' fees in most cases.

- Dave

[The Backlash Cometh]

29. Oh, there is a high penalty to be paid for their deceit.

And when that bill comes in for damaged infra-structure that should never have happened if they were committed to the Association, and not doing things the good ole boy way, then I will have a true cost of what they did to us. Not just the loss of community and good fellowship, but actual, real capitalist losses. The only kind that matters to them.

[CorpGovActivist]

30. Well, Depending on Your State...

... "breach of fiduciary duty" may also apply, which may give rise to up to treble damages.

- Dave

[The Backlash Cometh]

31. No question that bofd is involved.

That's the first thing that gets "sold" when good ole boys abound. But, unless there's an ACLU lawyer involved, or some lawyer who routinely takes this boys on in court, it isn't worth going that route. Been there, done that, and have the footprints on my back to prove it.

[alfredo]

34. Is it a story a local investigative journalist might like?

[CorpGovActivist]

36. Have You Searched the State and Federal Case Party Indexes?

Your state may have a "case/party index"; if so, it may be worth looking up the cases in which your foe lost or settled, and contact the law firm that vanquished them.

Ditto for the http://pacer.uspci.uscourts.gov/">U.S. Case Party Index.

As with all such searches, bear in mind that different legal entities may have slightly different names. A good place to start may be the founding filings that should have been filed for the organization, to find all "DBA" names.

- Dave

[The Backlash Cometh]

38. Thanks Dave. Appreciate it!

[zorahopkins]

32. Corruption

I don't know what else to call it other than corruption.

As in "power corrupts".

The boardmember is obviouslty drunk on power.

[The Backlash Cometh]

39. He is definitely following someone's example. The only thing I can hope

for is to find a dependable Patrick Fitzgerald type who will tune out the violins, and just get them to talk and find out why and who set them all down this bad path.

[flvegan]

33. I have yet to get to the bottom of your whole HOA thing.

That is one massive clusterfuck, my friend.

[The Backlash Cometh]

40. Yep. Welcome to my world.

[DURHAM D]

41. I am confused by this story.

The state of Florida has some of the best laws for governing a shared interest community.
The governing documents of your community is actually your Constitution and you/they must abide by same. If someone (anyone) is violating the governing documents (Articles of Incorporation, Declaration, Bylaws) they are violating the restrictive covenants of your community. Have you reviewed the documents? Have you reviewed the Florida general statues on shared interest communities - you should be able to do this online.

Generally any owner can bring forward a complaint. Who the complaint is filed with depends on if it is on Association property (private) or public property. The attorney's you have approached either don't really know how associations work or you have a bad case. If the violations are on private property I do not believe that the city or county attorney will assist you. If they are on public property you might consider alerting the insurance company that carries the Association's liability policy - they won't like their exposure.

If your own Board of Directors is violating the Association's governing documents by taking a portion of the common area they should be removed from office. In most associations a special meeting can be called by a petition signed by a certain percentage of the home owners - usually no more than 25%.

Does the board call the annual meeting for the purpose of electing officers? Do you attend? Have you tried to get the proxies of your neighbors?

Given your stealth approach I am trying to figure you if you are in violation of some community rules/restrictive covenants.

Have you checked the county records online - Register of Deeds or Tax Assessor to see if they have aerial views (property lines included) of the private lots vs. the common area. Many larger areas have this available?

[The Backlash Cometh]

42. I didn't even bother reading beyond the second sentence.

I know you mean well, but, with all due respect, nothing you say is true. Not where I live. They have too many secrets to maintain here, and too many people willing to maintain it for them. It is far more expedient for this city and its leaders to mislead people into thinking we homeowners have no power. They do not want anyone questioning them, under any circumstance. They (the city and their shills)debase the reputation of anyone who might question them. Do you understand what I'm saying? They will stop at nothing. i.e. This city knew our Association was transferred to the HOA, but kept quiet about. Only a few select Homeowners, maybe even just one, knew about it for many, many years. And the city kept mum about it to the rest of us, even in open public meeting. Why do you think they did this? My best guess is, because the city (and the community leaders that control them) had their own ideas of how our Association should be developed and didn't want us homeowners interferring with their plans. They succeeded in keeping the secret from us, so their shills and the stupid people who listened to them, sealed our fate. We have crap infra-structure because of it, and there's no where to go for justice. Absolutely no where. There is no law. It's a lie. It does not exist. This city and state is corrupted.

There is no law in the state of Florida, no agency of any kind, that will stop them from doing the things they are doing. I've long since figured out that we're some kind of test site, and the powers that be are allowing the Republican private sector to get involved with government decisions without oversight. And the liberal Democratically controlled State Supreme Court is right there with them, giving them the power the way liberals would, sanctioning Beautification projects in far too liberal a manner, helping them ram projects through, without giving residents a chance to audit their own city to see if the city has the track record to handle the kind of money that comes with a huge bond. This is as close to a good ole boy city, as you have ever seen. No oversight, just one continual cover-up after the other.

[DURHAM D]

43. You make absolutely no sense -

"our Association was transferred to the HOA.."

The HOA and the Association are the same entity.

You seem paranoid and confused. Good luck.

[The Backlash Cometh]

44. "Paranoid," is exactly how it would sound. Which is why it's impossible to get

someone to listen. So, I'll make it simpler. HOA's are controlled by the developer until a certain time when the documents state that control of the development must be transferred to the Homeowners. Generally, that happens when a certain percentage of the lots have been sold. In this case, it happened before that, it happened during a small replat of the development when an agreement was made between the developer, the homeowners, (or I should say, a few select homeowners), and the city attorney. But, the fact of that transfer was not impressed on the rest of the homeowners. In fact, those that may have understood it had been transferred, spread the falsehood that it still was developer controlled, probably because they did not want to be responsible for higher dues to fix the crumbling infra-structure that was not included inside the replat. So, a lie was born and they even found legal counsel to support that lie.

Now jump forward ten years when the final stage of the development was put before the city. We were told to sit down in meeting because we had no legal stake in the final phase of the replat. They rammed the replat down our throats and we lost common grounds and other amenities. And we also got badly build infra-structure. It was only at my insistence that we go outside the circle of lawyers that this community relies on for advice to find a lawyer that told us the truth. And that truth was, that the Association had been transferred ten years before. So, we had the legal right to stop the plans for the final development. But I had to fight all the good ole boys to get that much confirmation and there was no vindication with the truth because by that time, they made sure my name was mud.

As someone previously said on this board, I am cluster fucked. This is a mess of humongous proportions because everything about this city is as badly handled as my Association was. My development is just one small good ole boy "mistake," out of many more.