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Yes, Obama picked THIS Rick Warren.

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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 02:16 PM
Original message
Yes, Obama picked THIS Rick Warren.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Warren


Richard D. "Rick" Warren (born January 28, 1954) is the founder and senior pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, the fourth largest church in the United States. He is also the author of many Christian books and an influential Evangelical minister. During the summer of 2008, he hosted the Civil Forum on The Presidency featuring both John McCain and Barack Obama at his church. He holds both socially conservative and economically liberal views.<1>

...Warren's books have come under criticism from some Christians who question the practices promoted in these books, claiming that they distort the gospel and employ questionable tactics.<11> Particularly, some fear his books invite his readers into a 40-day streamlined program, rather than a living, transforming faith in God. Others express concern over what is described as the divisive nature of Warren's techniques. Wall Street Journal writer Suzanne Sataline cites examples of congregations who have split over purpose-driven growth strategies and congregations who have expelled members who fought purpose driven changes.<11> In an effort to defend Warren, Richard Abanes, a Christian author, journalist and apologist has written a book and extensive articles researching many of these criticisms.<12>



http://www.saddleback.com/aboutsaddleback/whatwebelieve/index.html




WHAT WE BELIEVE

ABOUT THE BIBLE
The Bible is God’s word to all men. It was written by human authors, under the supernatural guidance of the Holy Spirit. It is the supreme source of truth for Christian beliefs and living. Because it is inspired by God, it is truth without any mixture of error.

YOU WERE PLANNED FOR GOD'S PLEASURE

You are alive today because God chose you to be here. You exist for his benefit, his glory, his purpose, and his delight. Bring enjoyment to God, living for his pleasure, is the first purpose of your life.


http://blog.beliefnet.com/godometer/2008/08/rick-warren-to-godometer-obama.html

ABORTION



"I'm a pastor, I'm not a prophet, so I would not predict how evangelicals are going to vote. I will tell you they're not monolith. That's a big myth. They're going to make up their minds based on the hierarchy of their values. For many evangelicals, of course, if they believe that life begins at conception, that's a deal breaker for a lot of people. If they think that life begins at conception, then that means that there are 40 million Americans who are not here that could have voted. They would call that a holocaust and for them it would like if I'm Jewish and a Holocaust denier is running for office. I don't care how right he is on everything else, it's a deal breaker for me. I'm not going to vote for a Holocaust denier..."

If an evangelical really believes that the Bible is literal--in other word in Psalm 139 God says 'I formed you in your mother's womb and before you were born I planned every day of your life,' if they believe that's literally true, then they can't just walk away from that. They can add other issues, but they can't walk away from the belief that at conception God planned that child and to abort it would be to short circuit the purpose....




PROP 8
http://www.beliefnet.com/News/2008/12/Rick-Warren-Transcript.aspx?p=7


"No American should ever be discriminated against because of their beliefs. Period. But a civil union is not a civil right. Nowhere in the constitution can you find the “right” to claim that any loving relationship identical to marriage. It’s just not there...

"For 5,000 years, marriage has been defined by every single culture and every single religion – this is not a Christian issue. Buddhist, Muslims, Jews – historically, marriage is a man and a woman. And the reason I supported Proposition 8, is really a free speech issue. Because first the court overrode the will of the people, but second there were all kinds of threats that if that did not pass then any pastor could be considered doing hate speech if he shared his views that he didn’t think homosexuality was the most natural way for relationships, and that would be hate speech. We should have freedom of speech, ok? And you should be able to have freedom of speech to make your position and I should be able to have freedom of speech to make my position, and can’t we do this in a civil way...

"Much of this debate is not really about civil rights, but a desire for approval. The fact that 70% of blacks supported Prop 8 shows they don’t believe it is a civil rights issue. Gays in California already have their rights. What they desire is approval and validation from those who disagree with them, and they are willing to force it by law if necessary. Any disapproval is quickly labeled “hate speech. Imagine if we held that standard in every other disagreement Americans have? There would be no free speech. That’s why, on the traditional marriage side, many saw Prop 8 as a free speech issue: Don’t force me to validate a lifestyle I disagree with. It is not the same as marriage.” And many saw the Teacher’s Union contribution of $3 million against Prop 8, as a effort to insure that children would be taught to approve what most parents disapprove of.]"

(Cleary Rick ignores many other cultures in which polygamy was marriage, including the polygamous Abraham, Isaac and Jacob from the Old Testament. Not that this is a good thing, just that Rick's American experience has not necessarily been the way of the rest of the world,)


http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=12&year=2008&base_name=rick_warren_doth_protest_too_m


Warren dodged Waldman's question about whether he supported civil unions or domestic partnerships, answering instead, "I support full equal rights for everyone in America," adding that he only opposes a "redefinition" of marriage. He went on to say he's opposed to gay marriage the same way he is opposed to a brother and sister marrying (that would be incest), a man marrying a child (that would be statutory rape), or someone having multiple spouses (that would be polygamy). Pressed by Waldman, Warren said he considered those crimes equivalent to gay marriage.

Warren claimed he supported Proposition 8 because of a free-speech issue -- asserting that "any pastor could be considered doing hate speech . . . if he shared his views that homosexuality wasn't the most natural way for relationships." That's a standard religious right canard: turning pluralism into "discrimination" against Christians. (Or, claiming that saying "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" is a "war" that demeans Christianity.) Not only is it a silly argument logically, it's completely fabricated when it comes to Proposition 8: had it not passed, the free speech rights of pastors in California would have remained intact.

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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. Rick Warren went to Fuller Seminary so he could continue to believe in what he wanted to believe
He established his own Church outside of denominational connections so he could continue to believe what he wanted to believe.

He is against any type of intellectual enquiry that actually challenges the myths that he learned in Sunday School.

Ultimately Rick Warren is for the promotion of Rick Warren in a really nice package in a really big Church.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. In other words, he's a run of the mill con man. :)
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bigscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. just like some politicians
total disappointments
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. no he is a self dellusional multi millionaire con man
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. or preacher.
Same difference.
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. Damn, his god sounds really insecure. Maybe we should suggest therapy for his self esteem issues, or
at least get him a hobby or some shit.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. Wow. Tell me why shouldn't I call this TOTALITARIANISM?
WHAT WE BELIEVE

ABOUT THE BIBLE
The Bible is God’s word to all men. It was written by human authors, under the supernatural guidance of the Holy Spirit. It is the supreme source of truth for Christian beliefs and living. Because it is inspired by God, it is truth without any mixture of error.

YOU WERE PLANNED FOR GOD'S PLEASURE

You are alive today because God chose you to be here. You exist for his benefit, his glory, his purpose, and his delight. Bring enjoyment to God, living for his pleasure, is the first purpose of your life.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Because some people find doing so offensive.
When I ponder an arrangement where people must submit to the judgement of a supreme ruler who is doctrinally infallible and seeks to regulate your diet, what you wear, who you associate with, how much foreskin you slice off, what days you can and can't work, who you have sex with and in what position, who you can and can't marry, who you are required to kill, etc. I can't think of many words other than totalitarian dictatorship.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. I grew up in a area of the country where Native Americans lived. They got along
OK without a Bible. I reject the first sentence. I don't believe inything or anyone who doesn't consider that there are other people on this planet and they've always been here - before the Bible. I can't tolerate anyone who does not make room for other beliefs and faiths.

We are failing as humans if we don't. The world wasn't created for CHristians to convert all creatures. No way.
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
6. His views on dinosaurs are very scientific too.
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Believing Is Art Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Actually I would totally buy that dinosaurs are mentioned in the Bible
In some manifestation. There's a theory that the monsters and gods in Greek mythology are the interpretation of ancient Greeks of the large fossils they've found. It would not surprise me at all if the early Jews and Christians wrote down an explanation from God for any large fossils they may have discovered.
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Though I doubt they made such a statement as Warren does.
Warren:"Man and dinosaurs lived at the same time. There was never a time when dinosaurs ruled the earth." Obviously to him science = biblical history.
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Believing Is Art Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Oh of course not
Evangelical con men who mock science aren't very interesting. The potential origins of mythical figures in historical texts, more interesting.
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Doctor Pedantic Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
7. Give Warren a Call! (949) 609-8000
I called Saddleback and asked if they were logging calls from people expressing their opinions about Warren speaking at the Inauguration. The nice lady who answered the phone says they weren't tallying calls, but if I wanted to get a message to Warren she would put me through to his line. I then was transferred to his voice mail.

I'm sure he doesn't listen to the messages....I left a long one explaining my background as a gay Christian (raised the son of a Fundamentalist minister) and left my cell phone number.....but it's important for someone there to hear firsthand why this is a big deal. Especially after the way he laughed hysterically about the whole thing during Ann Curry's interview with him.


So go ahead...give him a call and let you know how you feel! Operators are standing by! That number again is (949) 609-8000.
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TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
8. He also picked THIS Lowery:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Lowery

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wykN-nYcqJs

http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/nge/Article.jsp?id=h-2744

http://pewforum.org/events/0605/lowerybio.htm

One is giving the invocation, while GWB is still President, before Obama is sworn in. The other is giving the benediction, on the Obama Presidency, after Obama is sworn in. Which one do YOU think is more significant?

curiously,
Bright
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. The first one - because the talking heads will cut away after Obama's speech to
blah blah blah about whatever they can. You betcha!
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Wow -- with a stretch like that you could be a yoga master
You could also interpret it as the opening speaker sets the tone of the proceedings. That's why they call them the keynote speaker. The marginal people are brought in at the end for alleged "balance."

In any event like this, the order in which people appear is extremely important.

Your supposed order of significance is clever, but it kind of fails, as that symbolism would be lost on just about everyone other than you.



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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
15. "YOU WERE PLANNED FOR GOD'S PLEASURE" == Creepy
Rick seems to think his magical sky daddy is sitting up in heaven jerking off to genocide and starving children.

These people are nuts.

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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Ouch! (but true)
It is creepy.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
18. I'm not too knowledgeable
about religion, so perhaps someone could tell me, are right-wing fundamentalists unique among each other? Do some believe one thing, and others something else? Is there a big difference between fundies and devout whatever other label of faith people wear?
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
21. I wish there was a way to shut down the microphones when he
Edited on Thu Dec-18-08 05:11 PM by Ilsa
gives his invocation or whatever it is that he is going to do. I hope the people there turn their backs to him when he does his part.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Maybe some folks can hold up shoes?
:D
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