So - If we are heading for a depression, what do we do???

[adigal]

I have two homes, am renting out the larger one, living in the smaller one, using wood for heat, I have a teaching job, my husband has a state pension, we seem safe, but all bets seem to be off nowadays.

Yet the mall was packed yesterday, people waited overnight to buy the new Blackberry, Walmart shoppers stampeded a man in their frenzy to buy cheap Chinese crap, so it does seem incongruous. Is this a situation of the masses not being as informed as we are, just like the liberal websites have been predicting this economic meltdown for 3 years, and no on paid attention?

I am confused.

[sendero]

1. A lot of those people..

... at the Wal-Mart would have been at the mall in better times. Go to the shopping mall and see how it is.

Have you noticed that you are hearing very little of the shopping stats that have become a staple of news reporting the last few years?

That's because they suck.

[opihimoimoi]

2. Just hope the Pension keeps coming.....teaching job seems safe

and renting out is also what I do....

if the Home ever goes vacant...consider renting out the bedrooms seperately...easier to rent out and for more $$.

Thats it...keep warm...

BTW....victory gardens is a must

[adigal]

6. I am looking for a used hydroponic system

for my house, since I live way north, with a very short growing season.

[opihimoimoi]

15. Very easy to create your own with plastic containers , hoses, and a small pump

with a timer set for 2x a day at one hour each time...or less...

Plastic drums cut in half and placed on stilts to give height...drains down to large cavity lined with cheap plastic...as in port swimming pool for kids...fill tanks with good medium after the drainage gravel is set up to prevent water lines from clogging...

plant seeds way before setting up so as to have seedlings available ast the system is complete...

ya gonna have some veggies this Summer Fall

[WhiteTara]

41. doesn't the standing water

breed mosquitos? Or do you recycle the water 2x day with pump and it keeps the critters away?

[TomClash]

3. What do we do? Invite Rick Warren over for a chat!

No, seriously, I think upscale shopping has declined and people are still buying cheaper goods, downscaling. Also, the recession has not hit everywhere in full force yet.

It's actually good that people are shopping - the worst thing people can do during a recession is hoard cash even though that reaction is understanable - if we all spend less ecnomic activity declines and recession deepens.

[wundermaus]

4. When the states go broke...

bye bye pensions and retirements. Nobody is immune.

[adigal]

5. I know - that is what I am worried about

Pensions won't be paid if the state has no money. And I don't make enough to support all of us.

[LiberalEsto]

7. Me too.

I find this shopping season very odd. I never go to malls, but places like Marshalls and Big Lots are already picked clean.

We went to three places yesterday to try and buy a live Xmas tree. Both Lowes and Home Depot were all out of cut trees. The garden center in downtown Gaithersburg was asking $50 for its last 4-foot tree, with prices for the few other remaining trees ranging from $60 up to $95. Since my husband is being laid off on Dec, 31, we couldn't see the point of spending that much. Who knew so many people were willing to spring for live trees this year?

If we can't find a cheaper live tree, it looks like I'll have to look for a marked-down artificial tree or go to the consignment store to see if they have one. But the artificial tree prices are also ridiculous. I've seen ads for fake trees around $169-$199 at Home Depot. Where do people find that kind of money in this economy?

[adigal]

9. I think the media is making this worse than it is

Don't get me wrong, it is bad for a lot of people, and at least they are getting attention, but why are the stores packed if no one has money? Doesn't make sense. And out local store is out of trees, too! I do think they ordered less than last year, though.

[Deja Q]

24. Agreed.

And it will improve.

And the more jobs we have in America, the larger the tax pool which means no taxes would have to go up -- for anybody.

[haele]

40. Its called "shopping therapy" -

People who want to be comfortable and have a happy family will often spend money that a more pragmatic person would think twice about spending. It makes them feel better, when they're at the mall or the Big Lots or the Wal-Mart, they're being overwhelmed with two stimulator's that tend to work in tandem; the internal stimulus of being in the situation where you are depressed because you know things are getting more difficult and there's nothing you can do about it no matter how hard you try, the external stimulus of "you'll be a better, happier person if you buy these nice gifts right now and your family will be happy with you"

People will go into serious debt spending for others at a cost they wouldn't spend for themselves - one of the things that caused my Grandmother's death from stroke was holiday spending - the bills started coming in the day before and she had already budgeted out the basics to live for the month off her meager pension and Social Security.

Holidays are brutal for those who aren't pragmatic. Between me and Laz, we have to keep an iron fist on our budget, or we would quickly get in over our heads - because we want to be happy and nice to those who bring us happiness. Lately, holiday gifts are primarily Holiday cards, sometimes with an enclosed gift or pre-paid Visa card, and a home-made gift if the recipients particularly close and we can afford shipping.

Haele

[SammyWinstonJack]

59. I went to Costco yesterday. Needed laundry/dishwasher detergent

Kirkland brand is good/inexpensive. Anyway, the store was very crowded and Costco doesn't take CCs,except for Amex, so people shopping there are paying with check/cash/debit cards. IOW, they have money to shop. And Costco isn't the cheapest place, either. It's nothing to spend hundreds of $$$ there. :shrug:

[SoCalDem]

66. A tree lot near us is almost as full as it was on day one..

I think they flopped this year:(

[Manifestor_of_Light]

47. I've had the same fake tree for the last twenty years.

Amortizes the cost.

[polichick]

8. Here in eastern PA, the malls are empty but the electronic stores are busy...

I know that the publishing business is experiencing its worst time ever, so people aren't buying books ~ and yet movies are selling out.

Maybe it's escapist things that are most attractive to people now.

[RainDog]

60. people are buying books

I know this from personal experience at an indie store. in fact, lots and lots of people have said they specifically chose to spend money locally.

[RainDog]

61. however, I'm interested in starting a betting pool for the date when borders goes under

if you want to know what has hurt the publishing biz (other than online activity) - the problems started years ago with the box book stores. while they offer steep discounts for titles and make hard deals with publishers, publishers increased the costs of books to pass along the expense of their deals with Borders and Barnes and Nobles.

these same box stores place restrictions on publishers to give themselves favored status on some items (there are magazines that are not available to indie stores via some outlets, for instance.)

these same box stores have hurt authors because they hype a few mainstream authors while others get lost in the hype. Indie stores promote books that come from a variety of sources/topics/genres - the bestseller list is not a good thing for indie stores to stock in any big numbers - and indie stores rely on "hand selling" - recommendations based upon their own likes and dislikes as well as the likes and dislikes of returning customers.

not too long ago I went into Borders and a person working the floor didn't know what a remaindered book was - a remaindered book, fwiw, is a book that has been selected for the half price stores and eventually the trash. before these books hit the trash, they are the bargain books at the box stores - the ones with a mark on the fore edge that indicates they are marked for the trash bin.

it was pretty amazing to me that a person working the floor of the children's dept had no understanding of the products she was selling. this is a problem with the box stores - the only criteria for working there is the willingness to accept cheap wages.

[girl gone mad]

72. The draw of the box stores was always the large selection.

Because of the internet, that's no longer such an important feature.

When I go to Borders or B&N, I always use my phone to see if I can get a better deal online, and I usually can.

[elleng]

10. Plant 'Victory Gardens.'

.

[wundermaus]

18. I agree but many of us do not even have a plot of dirt

to plant in... those folks will starve. Soon is the time to prepare the soil if you have any.

http://www.ehow.com/how_2244676_grow-depression-garden.html

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/victorygarden/

http://www.revivevictorygarden.org/

http://www.earthlypursuits.com/VictoryGardHandbook/VGHv.htm

[Jamastiene]

21. I have red clay.

It broke my shovel handle after bending the tip of the shovel. I had had that shovel for 15 years and it worked superbly everywhere else. I move here and plant two tiny azaleas and the clay is so damn hard, it bends the tip of my shovel and breaks the handle. I've never seen anything like it in my life.

[wundermaus]

29. Being a victory gardener...

I would recommend you build a raised bed frame and start adding organic matter to it.

http://www3.fertilethoughts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=340601

http://www.taunton.com/finegardening/how-to/articles/improving-clay-soils.aspx

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070320163519AA7b027

[cabluedem]

63. I wish I had a Green Thumb like you obviously do. Never would have occured to me to do that ! nt

[adigal]

11. And the bailed out banks are refusing to say if they are using our $$$

for bonuses.

There should be some serious jail time for these economic rapists.

[depakid]

12. One thing you ought to be wary about is getting too worked up over some of the doom & gloomers

on DU. Most states are going to be going through budget troubles, but unlike businesses in certain sectors- have the ability to raise revenues provided that they have the political will to do so.

[natrat]

31. yea like in ny where the dem governor refuses to tax the wealthy more

but instead wants more taxes on the middle or in california where the governor is laying off 10% of the states employees but not taxing the wealthy----please ,even the supposed good guys suck

[depakid]

33. That's a political choice

and you're right- some states and regions will suffer through the recession worse than others, based on their choices.

Some will cling to outmoded ways- and others (such as Oregon) will attract new, forward looking businesses- like renewable eneregy and bio-tech.

Those who make wise public policy choices will recover sooner- based in no small part on multiplier effects from having more of the money they generate circulating around their local communities and businesses.

Others- like the poster in the one horse lord made the super wallmart town, are in for a longer and much rougher ride.

[SoCalDem]

67. Yup.. CA has MANY rich folks,.. rich people who GOT rich

because of the stability of our government, and yet they are so damned stingy (most of them) that they scream and holler at the very thought of paying more taxes than they do now..even though they will never live long enough to spend what they have...

I know they employ people, and they struggled in the beninning, but jeez louise.. a 2 year surcharge on people with incomes over $300k would go a long way to fixing the shortage..

[NNN0LHI]

13. Anyone noticed an absence of wall calenders for the new year?

Used to get them from everywhere. My bank, my insurance guy, the vet, etc. In normal years I am normally just throwing them directly into the garbage by now because I already have so many. Not this year. I still don't have even one yet. Think I am going to have to end up buying one.

Don

[Jamastiene]

20. There will be no New Year this time.

Bush canceled it.

:hide:

[Deja Q]

25. Just like he canceled the last 3 elections?

:evilgrin:

[Deja Q]

23. I'm buying a used one instead

The calendar from 1931, save for the year "1 9 3 1", is identical in terms of day/week layout.

Or if they're out of those, 1987 would be nice...

1970 will have too many pictures of unbathed hippies.

[Jamastiene]

38. That is actually a great idea.

Old, used calendars are BOUND to be DIRT CHEAP. That is one way to really save some money! :P

Actually, it might not hurt for you to suggest this in the Frugal Living Group. :D

[KharmaTrain]

14. Last Chance To Shop...

First of all...we already are in a depression. Unemployment is soaring with no end in sight...and I suspect we'll see a bloody January as many companies that didn't survive through the holidays or are stuck in the credit crunch will shut doors. And with the credit crunch going on globally, whatever stock that is on shelves may be the last for a while as factories shut down due to either lack of credit or buyers who are having their own credit problems.

Right now there's still an overstock...the end result of things made over the past year before the crunch really hit and soon that supply could be gone. The overstock is what has led many stores to slash prices just to get the business and move out the inventory...but this is a short term deal.

We still haven't felt the fall-out of the past year of economic collapse...it's just starting to ripple through the economy.

[CreekDog]

16. if everyone cuts all spending without reason thinking there will be a depression

rest assured, there will be one.

i'm not arguing for conspicuous consumption, but our current employment level and wage levels throughout the country are based on a certain level of consumption.

it will hurt a hell of a lot of people.

i mean to some extent you have got to live your life based on some assumptions. if too many people assume that the country is just going to shit in a hurry and act on that, well, that's what will happen.

i don't think that. yes, we may go through a depression, but we don't have to and we don't need to stay in one. 850 billion of stimulous could build a lot of infrastructure while getting some badly needed money/credit flowing.

[cabluedem]

50. The country already is in a depression or will be come 1/21/09..

blamed on Obama.

[Greyhound]

53. The problem with the declaration (which we'll never hear, BTW) is that there

is no clear definition of the word. Ask 5 economists, you'll get 5 answers.

I was taught it was a period (forget how long) of contracting GDP and deflation, but that doesn't seem to be valid any longer, or rather it's only valid in the opinion of some...

[Mari333]

17. ride the tiger n/t

[Deja Q]

22. But wear a condom

:yoiks:

[Mari333]

34. lol

[Jamastiene]

19. "The economy" is not a single thing.

A recession does not move as one large overall thing. It has many smaller parts to it.

The reason for this is that not all sectors are hit at one time. It's staggered. One industry may already be hurting or on its way to total collapse, while others are still booming and still others might be somewhere between collapse and booming, maybe just struggling.

The economy is all of these sectors together. To say we are in a recession is to say that enough different sectors (or industries) are hurting enough that they have to cut back on expenditures in order to stay alive. If enough different sectors are hurting, it will cause the overall economy to go downhill.

Depending on where you live and what the local economy is comprised of where you live, it may not be so bad yet or it may be filled with tumbleweeds already. Where I live, has been filled with Wal-Mart and tumbleweeds for years now. We've been in a recession locally for as long as I can remember.

Do people still shop here?

Yes, you see them in droves at the local Wal-Mart.

Why?

There is no other choice. Wal-Mart, like the creature in the movie, The Blob, sprawled out over 5 acres, took every business rich enough to be able to afford the move to that new shopping area, and KILLED all the rest.

We never had a mall, either, just shopping centers. We had 2 large shopping centers across the street from each other. The major large stores on one side were Kmart, Sears, and Roses. The major large stores on the other side were JC Penney and Belk. There were oodles of stores in the shopping centers on both sides of the street. Some stores were in such small areas, that when you walked up to the door to those stores, the view looked warped and stretched and made them look taller. Those were small locally owned business. We also had a movie theater on each side of the street, one in each shopping center. We once had TWO, count them, 2 (two) (2) movie theaters. :popcorn: :D

Not now, :( We have NO movie theater at all now. Closest one is 35 miles away. :(

Wal-Mart moved in down the street...

We lost Roses, then Kmart, then Sears, then Winn Dixie, then they tore out the movie theater on one side of the road to enlarge Lowe's which moved in and killed Pelican, Carter Lumber and several locally owned lumber businesses.

Then, the owner of the other theater played Showgirls and the dipshits who run this county closed them down COMPLETELY for violating one of the zillions of local "We are stupid right wing fundamentalists who don't like nekked bodies" laws.

Once Lowe's moved into the shopping center on that one side, it didn't take long before several other stores found that they could not keep their business open without paying SEPARATELY for paving that section of the parking lot nearest to them. It was all one big parking lot with the stores all placed in a C shape. Lowe's was the middle with stores lining up perpendicular to Lowe's on either side.

Lowe's keeps their part of the parking lot nice and paved, none of those sinkholes or potholes to deal with. They did not, however, pay for the other parts of the shopping center's parking lot closest to the locally owned businesses and other stores. Of course, bickering broke out on who should be paving the other parts and Lowe's started complaining about business not being good enough because of the only partly paved parking lot. They threatened to leave if the other small businesses didn't pay to pave "their area" of the parking lot.

Next thing you know, ALL of the stores lining up in that entire shopping center, except Lowe's damn disappeared over a period of 2 or 3 months. Gone! Now, Lowe's paved the entire parking lot and it is the only store left standing there other than the McDonalds, which is really closer to the main highway.

Wal-Mart, at first, was a regular sized Wal-Mart. It was in a shopping center down the road when it first moved in. Several businesses sprang up next to it and it seemed to do ok. That wasn't enough for The Blob though.

They had to build a super duper religiously blessed Super Center Wal-Mart that "The Lord Made," according the manager of the Wal-Mart here at that time, to give us more "opportunities" in this dried up half horse town. :eyes:

So, down the street a little further toward the smaller, but richer (see the pattern yet?), town in this county closest to my hometown, they build the new super duper Wal-Mart and the manager of the store embarrasses the hell out of our city by declaring, "The Lord made Wal-Mart" and in this Wal-Mart, you'll get "Merry Christmas" and none of that "Happy Holidays" stuff because "everyone here is Christian." The dipshit said this as if there are no Jews or Muslims or others in this entire area. :eyes:

That began the mass exodus of what few stores were left in the old Wal-Mart shopping center. They all moved with the New Super Duper Wal-Mart Super Center Built By God Himself so they could stay in business.

The old Wal-Mart shopping center sits empty today. It is falling down slowly to ruins. You can still see that it used to be the old Wal Mart because as the paint fades from the top of the building, you can see where they painted around the Wal-Mart lettering year after year.

The old Lowe's building sits in the same old Wal-Mart Shopping Center, empty too. The EVEN OLDER Lowe's building has completely been torn down along with the rest of the shopping centers around except that one section of the old shopping center.

We have Wal-Mart and Lowe's.

Of course, everyone is going there in droves. It's all there is...other than the damn tumbleweeds where good stores used to be.

I saw that you mentioned having a Wal-Mart. Give it time. You, too, can see what the recession looks like. Dead bodies at the entrance to the Wal-Mart and tumbleweeds everywhere else.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

26. Ever considered writing something for publication?

You're damn good. This is the best post I've read on DU in ages.

[Jamastiene]

37. I would love that.

Thank you for that very kind compliment. :) :hug:

[lunatica]

58. Excellent writing

I've been waiting a long time to understand what's going on. I always knew that the best way was to read something that didn't have all that financial jargon that stumps me every time. Thank you.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

44. A Gem of a post, brought tears to my eyes. Walmart opened here 7 mths ago.

So far one local grocery store has gone out of business. It's a horrible cycle to watch happen everywhere, over and over again.

[cabluedem]

51. We lost a new union grocery store and a 103 year old hardware store to Walmart where wages are low.

[Hannah Bell]

49. That's like a sci-fi story.

[cabluedem]

65. Yeah, it is: "The BLOB that ate America"=Walmart+Lowes+Home Depot=death to the rest. nt

[ThomWV]

27. We are not going into a "Depression", not by any stretch of the imagination

And virtually everything you cite is evidence that we are not dropping into a Depression.

Go spend 10 minutes at Google and find some writings from "The Great Depression" and then spend an hour or two reading up on what a real Depression is like. You will soon dispel yourself of the notion that we are in one or even near one.

[knitter4democracy]

28. Come up to Michigan and say that.

We're in a depression. I'm not seeing the mall here packed, and our Meijers yesterday was packed but people were stocking up for the blizzard this weekend, not buying much else. Everyone I know is cutting way back on presents, and the busiest place I saw yesterday other than the grocery store was Goodwill. That's where many people are shopping this year, and our big Salvation Army store even has on their sign "Please donate clothing."

[ThomWV]

30. Sorry, Michigan is not the nation. If you went to Texas you'd have a different opinion

A fellow posted on this site just last week about how rosy things are in Texas. He may have been partially wrong but you can not say there is a Depression going on in the nation based on one horribly depressed area when there are other areas that are doing just fine. This is no Depression and it won't become one. The reason is pretty simple - Governmental powers world-wide are doing something about this one, they didn't last time.

[martymar64]

36. Texas is doing OK . . . for now

Everybody I know is feeling the pinch. As long as we don't fall into a deflationary spiral, we might avoid a depression. The key to avoiding that is getting people to work asap.The more people that work, the more money they put into the economy, creating demand for goods and services beyond subsistence commodities.

[roamer65]

42. Texas will begin to suck shortly as the oil price collapse kicks in.

Just like the price collapse in 1980's.

[PassingFair]

43. "one horribly depressed area"

...that encompasses Michigan, Ohio, Indiana,
Pennsylvania and Illinois.

That's a pretty big horribly depressed area.

[knitter4democracy]

45. I'm just saying, not everywhere's all sweetness and light.

Governmental powers haven't done crap for Michigan. Now Ohio's getting worse and much of the Rust Belt, and Appalachia is in real trouble. Not all of us are doing well. Frankly, I've never seen it this bad.

[Doremus]

62. A pretty big area of the country, aka the rust belt, is in a depression.

The global powers that be are welcome to come over and 'do something about it' anytime now. >crickets chirp<

We went to Sears and Kohls yesterday. A handful of customers in both stores. Even WalPuke only had half a parking lot full.

Mess with people's ability to buy stuff and we are no longer a consumerist society. If consumerism is the lifeblood of the economy then we are screwn.

A+B=C (still)

[ThomWV]

32. P.S.

I live in West Virginia, and on one of the poorest counties in West Virginia at that. There is nothing you can tell me about poverty that I can no find within a mile of my house.

[knitter4democracy]

46. I went to college with kids from West Virginia. I heard stories.

I went to a church college that covered Ohio, West Virginia, and Eastern Kentucky. My secondary ed prof taught in the hills of Kentucky before becoming a prof. I grew up in rural Michigan and was used to the rural poverty here, but Appalachia's really hurting and has for too damn long.

[cabluedem]

54. The malls in my part of California are dead too. Gonna be coal in the stocking this year. nt

[cabluedem]

56. Let me guess. You are an employed optomist, right? nt

[Oak2004]

71. I am very familiar with the subject. And I think we're in a depression.

First off, the horror stories of the Depression were not the only thing going on at that time. Many people survived the Depression virtually intact (my family on both sides did fine). A few even profited.

Secondly the full effects of this depression have not yet hit. We're at the 1929/1930 stage. That doesn't mean we're not in a depression, just as it did not mean there was no depression in January 1930: it means things will get worse.

Finally there are horror stories out there right now to rival those from the '30's. You just need to look for them, because the media is giving us a far too rosy account of what is happening.

Severe recession? Check. Market crash/instability? Check. Finance system of the edge? Check. T-bill rates at zero percent? check. Deflation? Check. Dramatically rising unemployment? Check. Dramatic rise in poverty overwhelming the existing charity system (and nearly nonexistent government-funded safety net)? Check. Big, whopping big, structural problems with the economy that go well beyond the ordinary business cycle? You betcha.

It's a depression. How bad it will be, of course, remains to be determined.

[girl gone mad]

73. Anecdotal reports of crowded stores aside..

things are really starting to look grim.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a56c0HoFX0PQ&refer=home">Retailers Will Face Darwinian Fight as Losses Mount

Dec. 18 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. retailers will face a Darwinian fight for survival next year as they run out of cash as early as January and competition forces thousands of store closings, according to private-equity buyers and restructuring experts.

Probably 50,000 stores could close without any effect on consumer choice, Gregory Segall, a managing partner at buyout firm Versa Capital Management Inc., said yesterday during a panel discussion held at Bloomberg LP’s New York offices.

“The United States is massively over-stored in all categories,” Segall said. He said his firm is in “a wait mode” and he expects banks to squeeze retailers after Jan. 1.

Plunging home prices, rising unemployment and tightening credit have led consumers to rein in spending, resulting in what may be the worst holiday season in at least four decades. Macy’s Inc., Kohl’s Corp. and other retailers have marked down items 50 percent to lure customers, eroding margins at a time when store owners hope to make a third or more of their annual profit

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=akoyvr.ybsds">Toyota May Cut U.S. Payroll as Unsold Autos Pile Up on Lots

Dec. 23 (Bloomberg) -- The worst U.S. auto market since the early 1990s may force Toyota Motor Corp. to do something that was once unthinkable: cut its North American payroll.

Asia’s largest automaker, which hasn’t shed workers in 24 years of building cars in the U.S., is exhausting options to trim costs after halting work on a Prius plant in Mississippi, idling a Texas truck factory for 15 weeks and planning to pare U.S. and Canadian output next month.

“If we don’t see a rebound by the second half of next year, they’d probably have to consider layoffs,” said Haig Stoddard, an analyst at forecaster IHS Global Insight Inc. in Troy, Michigan. “Toyota was expanding to catch up with demand. Now it’s got itself stuck with overcapacity for the first time.”

Adding to the pressure on North American operations amid a 13 percent slump in U.S. sales will be Toyota’s first operating loss in 71 years. Toyota yesterday projected a deficit of 150 billion yen ($1.7 billion) in the year ending March, erasing a forecast for a 600 billion yen profit.

Job cuts can’t be ruled out as sales continue to fall, said Jim Wiseman, vice president of external affairs for Toyota’s North American production unit.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601068&refer=home&sid=acrSIsXPr.38">Frozen Ports From Long Beach to Singapore Presage Bleak 2010

Dec. 23 (Bloomberg) -- Chris Lytle, chief operating officer of the port of Long Beach, California, took in a panorama of the slumping world economy from his rooftop observation deck one day this month.

Shipping cranes stood still, truck traffic trickled and a cargo vessel sat idle, moored to a pier.

“You never see that,” Lytle said. “It’s quiet. Too quiet.”

Port traffic has slowed from North America to Europe and Asia as a recession erodes consumer demand and the credit crisis chokes off loans to export-dependent companies. International trade is set to fall by more than 2 percent next year, the most since the World Bank began measuring it in 1971. Idle ports around the globe are showing how quickly a collapse in trade can spread, undermining growth in each country it reaches.

“Everybody expects 2009 to be a bleak year,” said Jim McKenna, chief executive officer of the Pacific Maritime Association, a San Francisco-based group representing dock employers at U.S. West Coast ports. “Now, it looks like 2010 is going to be just as bleak.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601068&sid=aHMpJiTOIn10&refer=home">Japan Exports Plunge Record 27% as Recession Deepens

Dec. 22 (Bloomberg) -- Japan’s exports plunged the most on record in November as global demand for cars and electronics collapsed, signaling more factory shutdowns and job cuts are likely as the recession deepens.

Exports fell 26.7 percent from a year earlier, the Finance Ministry said today in Tokyo. That was more than the 22.3 percent decline estimated by economists and the sharpest since comparable data were made available in 1980.

Shipments to the U.S. slid an unprecedented 34 percent and sales to China slumped the most in 13 years, underscoring why the Bank of Japan lowered its key interest rate to 0.1 percent last week. The yen’s surge to a 13-year high is amplifying the woes of exporters including Toyota Motor Corp., which may announce a lower earnings forecast at a press briefing today.

“Japan’s export crash is finally upon us, and this is the worst thing that could happen,” said Yoshiki Shinke, a senior economist at Dai-Ichi Life Research Institute in Tokyo. “The recession will be very severe as companies adjust investment, production and labor.”

The yen weakened and stocks rose on speculation emergency loans to General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC will stem a deeper U.S. downturn.

Japan’s currency fell to 90.02 per dollar as of 1:16 p.m. in Tokyo from 89.50 before the trade report was published and 87.14 on Dec. 17, the strongest since 1995. The Nikkei 225 Stock Average climbed 1 percent.

[Mari333]

35. and now for something completely different..

to ease the depression from the depression

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8BH4M9V1N8

[acmavm]

39. Why, wait for some of those billions we've given the predator class to

trickle down.

:sarcasm:

[cynicalguy1111]

48. we don't spend too much

im cutting down costs myself. to ensure you don't suffer through the depression, we should limit the amount of money we spend on luxuries and save up money.

i have had the same laptop and mobile phone for over 6 years now. its falling apart but im not going to buy a new one.

[cabluedem]

55. Try Ebay if you need a phone or battery for it....

the used ones are dirt cheap and a six year old cellphone battery is probably not holding charges for near as long.

[cabluedem]

52. Buy used not new, cut down expenses, and stop having children...

I am really serious about the last one. Children cost lots to have and you will not be able to get free services when people can't pay for taxes. Besides that don't we all think That almost 7 billion humans is way too many for this poor planet?

[bklyncowgirl]

57. My mother told me that her family actually did reasonably well during the Great Depression

Her father was a steamfitter with plenty of seniority in the union and never missed a paycheck. Construction was a sector of the economy that, at least in New York, was not as badly affected as other parts. My father's family also held onto their income. They were still able to afford to rent a bungalow at the shore during the summer.

Some parts of the economy will suffer horribly, others will hang on. Very few will do better than they were doing before.

[cabluedem]

64. There are always exceptions to any rule. Some folks dont even notice the crash, by all accounts. nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

68. What to do in event of a depression? Buy nothing, sell everthing.

You'll be able to buy it back much cheaper next year - if you have money.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

69. Take some anti-depressants.

[1]

70. don't be confused. if we are heading for a depression...

unless you actually own your homes? not paying on loans, you will lose both of your homes.

your teaching job? it will disappear. your husband's pension? it will evaporate.

don't throw the word depression around as some sort of joke.

a depression is some serious shit. you do know that, right? a depression means everything you have worked for, everything you now possess, everything you ever knew is gone.

you and yours are on a truck with your few meager possessions heading west to pick fruit, if you can find a job.

you get that, right?

right?

[GoesTo11]

74. Maybe you should just go along as normal

Sounds like you are pretty safe w/state pension, teaching job.

I remember when I was jobless during a recession, and I saw all these people who were totally secure and unaffected just saying "Oh, times are tough. We're cutting back because of the recession." Then I'd hear about how there were no jobs because consumers had cut back. I'm not saying "Go to Disneyworld." but if you were planning to do stuff anyway, like go to Disneyworld or do a home improvement, still do it. You'll get a better price now anyway and the money you spend will go to people who can really use the work.

[specialed]

75. The Numbers....

So far this holiday season about 1 billion fewer packages have been shipped so put an average of about $25 per package on that as a low end value and $35 for the high end and people have spent anywhere from 25 to 35 BILLION less this year than last. Which is about 20% of the holiday shopping season grand orgy of spending. Net sales were off 1% this year and retail is going to be down about 25% after all is said and done in a few days.

[and-justice-for-all]

76. Sometimes you have to wonder if its just not mental games...

they're playing with us. planting their seeds of confusion into the easily swayed in order to distract or instill some panic for a different purpose. What would they benefit from it?