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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 12:59 PM
Original message
CNN just said people were pissed they have had to go 8 days w/o power and
they are getting mean and running power crews off the road. They charge enough for power, why don't they hire some more damn people? It won't help in the middle of this mess, but they could be on storm standby. Don't they know storms are getting worse because of global warming?
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NutmegYankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. In New England - no power is likely no heat.
I'd be livid. Many of my neighbors and co-workers have installed propane or wood stoves as a backup.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. My cousins just moved to New Hampshire.
They finally got in touch. Were without power for a week. Whole new learning experience. For instance, they've learned one needs a generator. And something that heats without the power company.
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NutmegYankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
31. Also Wells don't work - so 8 days without a water supply.
Yuck.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #31
41. So job creation in FEMA or do away with it and create a new responsive agency?
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NutmegYankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. Fix FEMA.
Getting rid of the stench of incompetence from the Bush regime would be a good start.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. No argument here! 29 more days!
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
106. I thought that New England was reliant on home heating oil precisely to avoid that problem.
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. Maybe they have extra contrtactors out, like after hurricanes.
Or is it expressly mentioned they don't?
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. No answers were really given as is the usual course of the bushilter days, but I'm seeing signs like
Katrina victims that say 'HELP' and '8 DAYS WITHOUT POWER' and the like.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. Imagine how Iraqi's feel
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Trust me I imagine that every fucking day.
:cry:
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. We need to toughen up over here
At least we know we'll get the power back on knowing fully that everything is FUBAR and we're mostly on our own.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. People that haven't figured out we are on our own until now are really taking it hard
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
30. I knew I was on my own in 5th grade with the witch Sister Marietta
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #30
43. Damn she sounds like a charmer! Glad you learned early!
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #43
57. I hope she's still alive, the old bat.
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
26. People can't buid a bonfire in their living room.
Edited on Sun Dec-21-08 01:23 PM by madeline_con
spell edit

If they don't have a fireplace, they could be seriously screwed. Suddenly, my ex husband's buying a wood burning furnace for his house in upstate NY is not so funny to me. :(
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
27. A great post by Bucky:

One man, two shoes, and a very very small measure of justice

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=4674714

snip...

but my most important reversal of all is...

3- Actually, no, I do not "get" his anger. I live a good life. I drive to work without fear. I pay my bills without fear. I go shopping without worrying about a bomb blowing up the marketplace. If I lose my job, I can be sure I'll soon enough find another job. I spent two weeks without electricity because of a hurricane, but I never doubted I'd get it back; I never worried that terrorists would blow up the generator after that. I send my kid to college halfway across the continent and can worry only that she'll miss her flight back next week. I have not been kidnapped, as Muntadhar al-Zeidi was. I have not been beaten. My sister hasn't been raped; my father has not been murdered; my cousins have not been seduced into joining a ethnic cleansing militia; my mother's door hasn't been kicked down in the middle of the night by foreign troops. I have not seen hell unleashed on my community because some ideological thinktank in another hemisphere thinks it has an intriguing theory for global domination.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #27
39. Thanks for sharing Bucky!
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NutmegYankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
34. Likely a lot warmer...
I know what you meant, but I couldn't help it.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Like their asses are on fire
I couldn't help that either
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NutmegYankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #37
46. white phosphorus can have that effect.
Edited on Sun Dec-21-08 01:55 PM by NutmegYankee
Seriously, I know it sucks for them. I've opposed the war since the beginning.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #3
83. exactly.
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Phred42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
6.  Just another example of why we must have DECENTRALIZRED sources of power.
It's a matter of National Security and survival.

Publicly owned and operated, locally managed -- at least.

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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
45. Sounds good to me. But what if you are a dem in a local area of thugs and they have this knowledge?
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Phred42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #45
55. It still would require Regulation of some sort
Ultimately the source should be in each home and business - minimal grid.
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Waiting For Everyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #55
66. I completely agree with that.
Each home/building should be self-sufficient. We should be gearing our research and innovation on how to do that, and do away with power companies and grids for most users. THAT would be a major boost to the economy too, if people never had to pay utility bills ever again. Imagine that, with rechargeable cars as well. That would be an idea all Americans (except power companies) could really get excited about.
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Phred42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #66
80. The Power Companies would devolve
into something like the furnace repair industry.

Would that it were...
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KakistocracyHater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #45
78. try to find local like-minded people
& hope they believe you & don't walk away.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
58. The problem with this ice storm would not have been ameliorated by decentralization.
Generation was working fine. Long-haul transmission was working fine.

The problem was that my neighbor's tree fell on the local distribution
lines leading to our neighborhood. And over in the next neighborhood,
another tree wiped out their lines. And so on and so on.

So the power that was being generated couldn't reach several hundred
thousand of us in our local New Hampshire neighborhoods.

Unless you're planning on decentralizing all the way down to individual
households, decentralization wouldn't have helped us. ;) On the other
hand, undergrounding the local distribution, now *THAT* would have
helped!

Tesha

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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
103. Public power is a great thing. I'm really glad to live in the west for that reason. n/t
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
7. There's a shortage of those trained.
You just don't walk in off the street and work on powerlines.You have to go to school. The rate of people retiring each year that work on powerlines is greater than the group of newly-trained each year.
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. There are PLENTY of young people ....
and even not so young people; that would be VERY happy to learn whatever they have to learn to perform such tasks .....

I believe you are referring to an state electrician certification/license, which I believe requires training in a NECA/IBEW facility, or some equivalent, and acceptance into an apprenticeship program ...

It is my understanding that people are lining up for this kind of work, and being turned away ....
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Here's an example of a lineman school:
http://lineman.edu/index.aspx?

Not everybody wants to chance getting electrocuted, no matter how good the money.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. They are in for a shock with Obama roll when they will be required to train more people!
At least this is my hope.
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Kalyke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #24
69. Did you really mean to say "shock?"
;)
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
73. I'm sorry, you are incorrect. "State electrician" is NOT a Lineman. We call then "narrowbacks".
People are not 'being turned away'. As a matter of fact a local school is about to close due lack of students. It is hard, challenging and dangerous work. You have to be tough as hell and smart as a whip to do well and avoid a trip to the burn ward or morgue. I couldn't imagine doing anything else.
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #73
79. I stand corrected ...
In the State of Oregon, you must be a licensed Electrician to connect an electrical sign, or repair an outlet in a mobile home, but you can work all day on high voltage transmission lines without any certification or license whatsoever ....

You need numerous related certifications and licenses, but none related to being an electrician ...

I find that 'shocking' ....

In any case ... I would be surprised if some young men were NOT attracted to jobs like this:

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:ZuEXr-JSAhMJ:www.transmission.bpa.gov/EdCar/apprenticeships/005733-08-ST.doc+Oregon+high+voltage+transmission+Lineman+requirements&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us

To get jobs like this ...

http://federalgovernmentjobs.us/jobs/Lineman-Maintainence-and-Live-Line-1350662.html

Even YOU might be slightly interested in jobs like this ...

http://www.utilityjobsonline.com/jobview_job-2087.htm ($16,000 signing bonus ????)

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Doremus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #79
87. Those links are all for the same employer.
I wonder what the employment picture looks like in the rest of the country...
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #87
101. I have no idea ....
They are the same employer (BPA), and two are the same job, but there are differences;

1 is an Apprentice position
1 is a Journeyman position without a signing bonus
1 is the same Journeyman position with a $16,000 signing bonus

You might want to consult one of the many organizations that exist throughout the country to find other similar positions ...
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #87
111. In South Florida it's not so hot. Companies are laying guys off. However,
if you don't mind traveling there's always work somewhere.
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #79
110. You have to be qualified to work on live primary lines. That typically means a journeyman license.
Journeyman Lineman, not 'inside' electrical.
The vast majority of transmission work is done 'dead'. The voltage is far too high to work 'live' with a few exceptions (helicopter work for example). So typically, the work is no different than any other elevated construction job. (think cell phone tower)

The really dangerous stuff is what's called 'distribution' which are voltages low enough to be worked on 'safely' (safe being very relative here) but high enough to blow body parts off like a land mine. There is intensive training and education involved in this. When things go wrong, they go wrong bad. Safety is critical and there aren't 'new guys' up there doing this. At least not for long.....

I imagine that once the whole Iraq/Afghanistan debacle ends there will be more interest. Ex military tend to very well in this industry.

There are always jobs that require travel or are in someplace you don't want to live. I am lucky in that I work for a company I like (doing a job I love) and I'm home every night. The money isn't bad, either ;)
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. I bet we see a growth spurt there in jobs! Woohoo!
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The Gunslinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #7
107. I wonder if a line man is like most other skilled trades in the USA.
They pay less now than they did 20 years ago. Jobs like this are becoming close to minimum wage jobs, companies don't want to train(they will just overwork the employees already there). Low wage jobs are a big part of the shit economy, and there is no bailout coming for these workers.
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
10. Living in Florida, we're used to this and prepared for it...
You New Englanders need to get your act together!

:sarcasm:
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peace13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
11. When Ike hit Ohio in September we had no power for over a week.
With our national power structure the maintenance crews could be in Maine or Mississippi. There is not always enough to go around. In the old days Ohio Power would have put us back in business. The way it was, we waited for crews to return from Texas. This isn't our mother's America. We will wait for services just like the other third world nations. No need to be rude to the people that are there to help though. That won't help a bit. Peace, Kim
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itsrobert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
12. It's "Climate Change"
thanks
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watercolors Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
13. During hurricane season
we have gone without power up tp 12 days. We wised up and bought a generator. I think maybe people need to rethink about climate change and problems that can arise. My brother-in-law in MA purchased a generator a couple year ago after a bad storm and and lost power. Crews can only do so much in bad weather, we are just spoiled and want things done immdiately!
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Oh so Katrina victims were just spoiled, old people with subzero temps in their homes who can't
afford generators are just spoiled? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. How much does a generator cost might I ask?
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
42. depends on how big it is, I think. anywhere from a grand up.
Guess they are supposed to pull this money out of their ass somewhere.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. I guess so. Or maybe they have a generator up there instead. Save on
shopping for one.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. LOL. I want a piece of THAT ass!
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bighart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #42
62. you can get a generator large enough to run your heat
fridge and a couple of lights for $300 to $700 dollars. We went 4 days without power in southern Missouri last winter in bitter cold temps. It ain't fun but is very survivable for most, elderly and small kids excluded not so much.
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Maine-ah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #62
104. during the winter
if we expect to lose power for a long period of time, we get the wood stove going, fill the tub, fill water bottles. When the power goes out, refrigerated items can go out in the snow and they're just fine. I've got a gas stove as well, so I can still cook. I don't own a generator, nor could I afford to purchase one. My hubbie also works for a mom & pop wholesaler, so if we needed anything we could get it there.

The last storm I remember losing power for a long period of time was the blizzard of 78. Even the ice storm in 98 we didn't lose power, though millions were with out and some in Canada were without power for a month.
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
60. 1. Those cost a small fortune. 2. Where do you store it?
If you're poor to middle class, where are you supposed to come up with the money for a generator? I've looked into it, and we can't afford one. Forget renting one in a power outtage, too--there are never enough in the area, and the places jack the prices up.

If you rent or have only a small home, where are you supposed to put it? On the balcony? In the pitifully small storage closet? Where?

When I was a kid, we lost power all the time out in the country here in Michigan. I remember losing power for three weeks after one ice storm when the temps dropped into the teens afterwards. We were lucky and had fireplaces and lots of firewood, but all four of us kids spent all day keeping them roaring to keep some heat in the house at all and not freeze. It was miserable, so I've made sure that we had a fireplace in this house, and yes, I have had to use it in a power outtage in the winter.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #60
64. They can be expensive. I bought one a few years ago
when hurricane season was approaching. I wanted one that could run the fridge, a portable a/c unit for the dogs and the tv/radio for the news. I spent around $500, and wound up with one that could run all that, plus a couple lights and my router/computer set up. Yeah, I'd wind up going through around a gallon of gas per hour, but I'd probably have it off several hours a day (depending on the fridge). I had to save for it, but considering I work from home, it was something I thought I needed.

I have a storage facility I rent, as I don't have a garage and my attic isn't ready for storage yet. I keep the generator there. I figure I have a two day window if a hurricane is coming to go pick it up and bring it home.
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #64
93. I bought a HOnda generator years ago and it's great BUT you need
to run them once in a while. Letting them set can cause problems when you really need them. I learned the hard way. Now if you have days of warning maybe that isn't so much of a problem.
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conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #60
108. Then where do you get fuel?
Takes a lot of fuel to run a generator.
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #108
109. That's true, too. And you can't store it for long.
So, you're paying premium prices.
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
16.  8 days is long up there.. 2/ 3 days people can hang if they're prepared.
My parents have a generator, wood stove, and 50+ yrs of dealing with this shit. But towns are running low of funds, town crews aren't getting out fast enough to keep up with the storms because of overtime costs.. and some of these powerlines are up the side of a mountain. The best thing would be for Snow areas to be self-sufficiently power supplied.. solar/ wind/ geo-thermal. This way crews aren't worried about ice, snow, and hiking the side of a mountain. My mom said on one side of the road with the hill issue might have power on by christmas.. that was for the ice storm; not the snow storm now.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Thanks for the clarification snow/ice. Also like your solutions!
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #19
28. AND me I'm in Florida.. Guess I have a glutton for punishment.. LOL.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. Not much snow or ice there either, I'm in AZ, and have the stuff up north but not where I'm living/
surviving. :D
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Feron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
20. People need to be patient.
Even with a swarm of power workers, restoring power can take time if the damage is extensive.

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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #20
35. It's hard to be patient when no power = no heat.
In New England. In December. Where it's been in the 20s all week. Also, minimal to no water supply.

I don't excuse their chasing power trucks off roads, but I fully understand their anger and frustration.
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Duckhunter935 Donating Member (777 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
23. Underground
Edited on Sun Dec-21-08 01:20 PM by Duckhunter935
This happens every year or two for ice/snow starms and hurricanes, Why do we not just but the bullet and slowly move the lines under ground. All electric companies have mutual agreements and you will see bucket trucks from around the US and Canada in those areas that this happens to.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Well doesn't the ground freeze too?
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #25
54. The problem with ice storms and windstorms is falling trees and limbs
pulling down the power lines. If they were underground, that would not be an issue. I don't know if there are other drawbacks to underground lines aside from the cost of the changeover.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #54
59. Drawbacks? Backhoes. Other than that and the initial expense, not so many. (NT)
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NutmegYankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. It's easier in some areas than others.
Mountains and rocky terrain in particular are rough. Most homes out there have wells, which also don't work without power, because the ground doesn't allow for easy pipe laying.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. And if a line breaks underground due to freeze, wouldn't it be the same problem just digging instead
of climbing?
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NutmegYankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #33
50. Worse.
You would have to bring in the equipment to dig them out, while covered in snow and ice.
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tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #33
72. Wouldn't happen
Freezing doesn't break power lines. Ice buildup and tree limbs do.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #29
70. Yeah, we grow rocks here in the soil
and many people need to depend on wells for water, and septic systems for sewer. (Thankfully, not us!).

A loss of power is almost always a loss of heat, clean water, toilets...
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lukasahero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #23
94. You don't live in New England, do you?
Our best crop in these here parts is called "rock". Makes laying anything underground a bit of a challenge.

I was digging a hole to plant a one-quart hosta this summer and dug out a rock bigger than the plant that was going in the hole. I had to go find dirt to re-fill the hole. :(

There is an effort to move lines underground but it's not always possible and it's always much more difficult/expensive.
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
36. They know they are paying top dollar for something they don't even receive reliably
Edited on Sun Dec-21-08 01:40 PM by dmordue
In the northeast they are probably having to pay upwards to $100-150 per day for a hotel room to keep their family warm. They have lost all the money of anything they had in freezers or in refrigerators plus they will have a wonderful time cleaning it up as everything has melted down and ruined. Some people don't have the extra thousands of dollars in immediate cash to finance the situation.
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Spectral Music Donating Member (349 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. Exactly. Is New England's electricity privatized as well?
That would explain the non-responsiveness.
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NutmegYankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #44
52. Oh Hell yes. $0.17 per kilowatt hour if it's a cheap month.
Fuckers.
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Spectral Music Donating Member (349 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #52
74. That's why the customer service is slow and probably why the electricity is out for so long
A public system does updates and maintenance on the grid to avoid public backlash. Private companies aren't accountable in the same way. Every crisis leads to more bandaids.
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Mudoria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #74
92. Bullshit..
If the business wants to make money they get out there and get those lines back up as fast as they can get them up. Every hour a line is down is lost money...
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #44
67. I get mine through "National Grid" in Mass
My guy's town has it's own power company, his is cheaper.
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
38. Time for a wood stove.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. And the pollutants from wood burning and the trees?
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NutmegYankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #40
53. minimal use isn't a problem.
It's unlikely that many people would keep more than a few days wood supply on hand. I do have a co-worker who heats entirely with wood all winter. He takes away tress that have been cut down for neighbors (like a big tree near a house that could fall) and dead trees that the state allows taken down in the state forests. It is hard work though.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #40
71. They've got catalytic converters for wood stoves now
Eliminates 90-95% of the pollutants going up the stovepipe.
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lse7581011 Donating Member (948 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
56. I Am Becoming Seriously Depressed!
Was without power 6 days last week-no heat, no water, etc. and it's snowing hard again, predicted to flash freeze and have winds near 50 mph tonight. I'm literally sitting here waiting for it to happen again. Have all my supplies on hand, etc. but just am literally scared of what tonight will bring!
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #56
75. that sucks so bad...
I was kind of scared earlier when the wind started whipping. I'm North of Boston, and we haven't lost power. I feel so bad for you. I can't imagine all that time without power, and then this. I hear from the Weather Channel we're getting some more snow..1-3" which is way preferable to the ice. I hope you stay lit up. :hi:
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #56
90. Are you ok?
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lse7581011 Donating Member (948 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #90
97. I Am Doing Better!
We made it through the night without losing power thank God! And the sun is out today so things look a bit brighter! Can't believe I'm feeling like this and it's only December! Thanks for caring!
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #97
105. Glad to hear the sun is shining down on you!
:hug: I could use a bit of sunshine my way. :(
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Waiting For Everyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
61. Utilities should not be privatized - none of them.
Edited on Sun Dec-21-08 06:30 PM by Waiting For Everyman
There should be no profit allowed in it, and they should be well-maintained for the public benefit of all. And outsourcing should be illegal for them, and all levels of government as well.

Selling off public assets was stupid to begin with. It needs to be reversed permanently - by eminent domain if necessary. The private players had their profit for a time, that's quite enough for them.

What alarms me most, is the latest thing of companies trying to take over public water companies now. No way that should be allowed - anywhere.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
63. It was an ice storm that forced me to purchase a 5 KW generator about ten years ago
Didn't have power for over a week.

Haven't used it much lately. But its there when needed.

Don
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
65. My co-worker in northern mass wont have power until after xmas
We just had 2 big storms, temps are below freezing. It's getting ugly.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
68. I don't blame people for getting mad. The power companies don't inform people when
they can expect or anticipate when their power will be back on. Instead they leave people hanging for days wondering what the hell is going on.

A few years ago, we were without power for about 8 days and heard NOTHING and knew NOTHING about when we would have power back. Come to find out that we are on fringe of the area our power company services and NOT a priority to them. Yep, they didn't give a damn about us the entire flippin week!

Talk about pissed off! :grr:
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
76. What a nightmare in the bitter cold. Kick and Rec
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
77. private or publicly owned?
Publicly owned utilities have much better records for getting power back on quickly but you won't hear that on CNN.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
81. You can get backup generators for as little as $100..
It took me about thirty seconds to find this one, which would keep your fridge, heater, small tv and a few lights going.

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200313480_200313480
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #81
86. Thanks for the link!
:fistbump:
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #86
88. You're welcome, I've had that kind of generator since the 1973 ice storm in Atlanta
Where we were without power for over a week.

I vowed never to go through that again if I could possibly help it.

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Doremus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
82. Utilities can't improve their infrastructure. CEOs and shareholders need that $$$.
Edited on Mon Dec-22-08 10:05 AM by Doremus
:sarcasm:


The fricking power grid is in shambles because power companies refuse to invest in their infrastructure, preferring instead to pocket it as profits.

As long as their customers (US) put up with it, it will be thus. I'm happy to see people are FINALLY getting fed up with it!
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
84. Now, that's a perfect example of cutting off your nose to spite your face!
Edited on Mon Dec-22-08 10:10 AM by tblue37
As though the understaffed, overworked power crews will get the power back on faster if people run them off the road while they are trying to.

If people want to protest, let them protest the honchos, not threaten the poor schlubs who are working their asses off in awful weather to get them power.

As always, it's the little guy with no power and no responsibility for it who gets blamed and punished for the incompetence or malfeasance of the people at the top.
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
85. This to me is like the gas industry - they fight NOT to have power!
We were without power here in Ohio a couple of months ago when the Hurricane Ike came through here with winds that knocked thousands of trees down. Now the electric company wants the consumer to pay for this and I see them doing nothing to make sure it doesn't happen again!

.......

Hurricane Ike: More than 1M without power in Ohio Valley -

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2008/09/hurricane-ike-m.html

More than 1 million households and businesses in Indiana, Kentucky, Pennsylvania and Ohio are without power because of strong winds associated with the storm formerly known as Ike, according to local power companies.
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AwakeAtLast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
89. We had an ice storm here a couple years ago - some without power for 3 weeks!
Very few people even knew about the ice storm that Central Indiana suffered a few years ago. Almost all the transformers blew - ice encapsulated them. They ran out of them and had to wait for more. Meanwhile they had to cut through all the trees that fell over the roads bit by bit just to get to the lines and parts. Fortunately we were luckier, but many people - including some in my place of work - were in dire straits by that third week. It was as cold then as it is now, too (5 degrees or so).

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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #89
96. Been through that
It was just over ten years ago that a major one hit northern NY/Canada. It looked like the atom bomb went off, except with ice. They mobilized pretty much the whole state and parts of our dinky little city went without for almost a month.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
91. Then again, perhaps some people should get some perspective...
and remember there are countless people on this planet who go their entire lives without power.

I have gone through this due to hurricanes and understand the fear, uncertainty and inconvenience. Especially when the heat in my case or the cold in theirs can become life-threatening. But sadly, I suspect in the case of too many it has more to do with not being able to see a football game. Plural of anecdote is not data, but that's the bitching and moaning I heard most when we lost power here.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
95. People are idiots
Doesn't matter how many workers you have on some problems. Shit takes time.
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #95
98. No no no, it's supposed to be immediate
But then, after Ike my family was out of power for weeks.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #98
100. I've been there, it sucks bad. Especially up here in colder climes.
Luckily, My wife and I were able to hang out at my job which nice and warm thanks to a military generator.

Getting there was a bit of a problem though as pretty much every tree on our dead end street was down in the street.
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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
99. I AM 12 DAYS WITHOUT POWER IN NH and...this is what I have to say:
Anyone who is living up here and not prepared for severe weather should not be living up here.

We have had 3 major storms in a week. The utility crews have worked through all of them and may have to work through Christmas. They are super heroes as far as I am concerned.

There is a lesson in this and it is that we are all entirely too dependent on resources other than our own two hands and our brains.

I suspect the folks who are acting badly are recent arrivals who thought they could buy "country life" without any of its attendant problems.

BTW, I have a generator and I'm going to insist that my first grandchild be named "MiltonCat". :-)

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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
102. Because y'all don't have public power.
I am very fortunate that I live in an area with a strong tradition of PUD's. In the last week, we've gotten more snow than I can remember in my adult life. I live way out in the boonies and my lights were off twice, for a half-hour each time.

Utilities take care of their owners. In the case of the northeast, investors own the utilities.
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