More Airplane Hysteria - Girl kicked off of plane for coughing

[ck4829]

A 16-year-old girl who caught a cold during a school trip to New York was kicked off her flight home because she was coughing.

Rachel Collier was removed from the Continental Airlines plane as it was about to leave Newark, N.J., for Honolulu earlier this week. She had fallen asleep after boarding the plane with about three dozen classmates and woke up coughing and gasping for breath as it was about to take off.

"Everyone was looking at me," she said. "I couldn't talk because I lost my voice coughing so much. I was panicking."

The flight attendants gave her water, and a doctor on the flight said she would be OK to make the 10-hour flight. But the captain returned the aircraft to the gate to drop off the girl and one of her teachers.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070330/ap_on_re_us/coughing_passenger

[LeftishBrit]

1. Could it be that they thought she might have TB or another serious contagious disease?

While I do think their behaviour was way over the top on this occasion, airlines do have some reason for being a bit paranoid on the subject of germs - it is easier to catch diseases on an aeroplane than in almost any other setting, because of the way that air gets recycled.

[pnwmom]

27. Or it could have been an asthma attack.

Sometimes a cough is the only sign of asthma.

I think the pilot made a good decision.

[1monster]

32. She was examined by a doctor on board who said she was fine

to make the ten hour flight to Hawaii.

I guess the airline pilot knows more about illnesses than an M.D.?

[uppityperson]

33. Who had ultimate responsibility?

Who would be responsible if something else happened to her?

[pnwmom]

50. Asthma can be tricky to diagnose. If he wasn't seeing her during

an actual attack, there might have been no symptoms at all.

Would you trust your own child's health to a teacher and a doctor who didn't know her? Who specialized in -- whatever -- and who lacked the equipment for proper testing of her breathing?

[1monster]

60. Sometimes, a cold is just a cold. I've had incidents of choking and

coughing fits during bad colds and allergy attacks that lasted several minutes and sounded like I was dying... Given water, sudafed, and perhaps a Halls and/or vicks, or hot tea, the coughing fits subsided.

Ashtma is a pretty drastic diagnosis on the evidence of one coughing fit...

[pnwmom]

61. But many asthmatics only get their symptoms

when they have a cold or other virus, or when their allergies are bothering them. Their airways are easily irritated. Maybe you should get that checked out.

Asthma is a very common problem -- up to 15% of the population has it. If I were that girl's mother, I wouldn't want some unknown doctor, with an unknown background, to decide my daughter was good to fly after a couple minutes worth of an examination. Better to be inconvenienced than to take a chance on a serious asthma attack mid-air.

[NightWatcher]

2. I had mixed feelings about this

I hate that she was kicked off the plane for coughing and I understood that things happen to people all the time that seem a bit unusual.

I also can understand being on the plane with someone who might stand out as being a health hazzard. At least from what I saw, she did not seem to terribly upset for having to catch a later flight.

[AndyA]

3. I agree with Continental Airlines on this.

I can name more than once I was on a flight with someone close by coughing. Even though they may have attempted to cover their mouths, shortly after the flight I got sick. Once, while traveling with a business associate, we had someone behind us coughing and sneezing. Both of us were sick within days.

When people are sick, they need to stay home. They have no right to spread their germs around to others.

When you have the flu, very often the Doctor's office will tell you to STAY HOME. They don't want you coming in, because they know you will just spread it.

People who are sick should not be around the general public, there are too many instances where germs are guaranteed to be spread: airplanes, elevators, waiting in line, etc.

People who are sick need to avoid others until they are well.

In a restaurant a couple of weeks ago, the waitress was observed coughing on food she was about to serve. I inquired if she was sick, and she said, "Oh, no, it's just smoker's cough."

I told her I did not want food that had been coughed on, smoker's cough or not. I went elsewhere to eat lunch, and reported to the owner of the restaurant why I was leaving. I've been a good customer at this establishment for years. I haven't seen that particular waitress since.

[alarimer]

7. But she wasn't sick before she left

She got sick on the trip. So she is stuck there until she gets well enough to fly? Colds happen.

[AndyA]

15. Yes, colds do happen.

But just because you catch a cold doesn't give you the right to expose others to it.

Perhaps she got it on the first flight. Had the inconsiderate person who was sick and exposed her to it not been out in public, she may not have fallen ill at all.

I would bet if people stayed home when they were sick, instead of going out in public, there would be a lot less sick people around the world today.

[alarimer]

31. That just isn't possible

I don't take sick days for colds. Not unless I am feeling too bad. Not everyone has sick days either, or they only have a small number of them. I get 8 hours of sick leave every month and I don't lose it unless I use it. So I have something like 2 months worth accumulated. So I do use mine rather liberally. But most jobs (if they offer sick leave at all) give you maybe a week or two at best and who wants to waste that on a little cold.

Maybe she could have used a good cough suppressant. That's what I would do if I were flying with a cold. And I would fly anyway. It would not stand in my way of a trip I had bought and paid for.

[AndyA]

34. Well, on behalf of the countless people you've no doubt exposed to your germs,

thanks a lot for nothing.

Cough suppressants do not kill the germs, nor do they always suppress a cough.

I can understand staying at home won't always be an option, but people really should not expose the public to their germs whenever possible.

It's polite, it's considerate, and it's the right thing to do.

Have you ever thought of the people who get sick due to exposure to others and can't afford medical attention ? They often can't afford to lose time from work either, but they often do.

[alarimer]

39. People will get exposed to germs

it's a fact of life.

If they can't deal with it, they need a plastic bubble. Not my problem at all.

[AndyA]

42. Well now that's being a good American, isn't it?

Every man for himself! Screw everyone else! As long as I'm OK with it, tough shit for everyone else.

And we wonder why things are so screwed up today. :eyes:

[uppityperson]

43. If you expose me, and I get sick, I have NO health leave.

My job is 1 that I cannot work at if I am sick (health care, believe it or not). If I am exposed to someone who decided to come see me anyway, and I get sick, I have to take the time off work. Unpaid. Sometimes only a couple days. Sometimes a week. I really do NOT appreciate your lack of consideration.

[MountainLaurel]

45. My thoughts, precisely

My husband and I both got sick on our wedding and honeymoon trip to New Zealand, a 24-hour trip from the East Coast. In part we got sick because of the long, non-stop flight between Los Angeles and Auckland, during which we got negligible sleep. Recycled air always gets me sick. Once there, the springtime pollen kicked up my allergies.

So, apparently we were supposed to stay there for how long to recover? It was at least another four weeks after our return before my husband was completely well (smoker's respiratory system).

[shadowknows69]

47. if that's the case though shouldn't the whole plane

have been quarantined? If it was a potential "bio agent" or something didn't the airline endanger the rest of the world by kicking her off?

[uppityperson]

49. It wasn't just that she had a cold.

"Continental said in a statement that Collier was coughing "uncontrollably" on the plane Tuesday and that "the captain felt he was acting in the best interest of the passenger and other passengers on the flight.""

[blondeatlast]

10. Agreed. I had a boss who would tell us to "work from home" if sick time was

exhausted.

We were the healthiest department in the organization. She simply would not allow us to come to work if ill--and she was damn right.

[sharp_stick]

18. Exactly

everytime somebody sneezes on an airplane they must be removed! My God, some guy cleared his throat next to me last week and I was terrified that I was gonna catch the plague. :sarcasm:

She had a coughing fit, she wasn't even sick.

[AndyA]

37. All to often, though. They ARE SICK.

And many people truly are PIGS, who do nothing to try to prevent the spread of disease.

How often do you go to a public restroom and see people leave without washing their hands? That door knob they touch to open the door often has feces on it. That's disgusting, and that's how disease is spread - often by people who have no consideration for others.

Kind of like the Republicans.

[uppityperson]

30. Could be a CYA thing also.

If something happened to her while in flight, Continental would be in deep legal and financial shit. I think they should have done the same as with a bumped passenger, put them up somewhere overnight and booked on another flight.

[alarimer]

35. If she was really sick, why would they stick her on another flight?

It doesn't make any sense, except that someone must have complained enough for the captain to do something just to shut up the ones who were bitching.

I get coughing fits when I don't have a cold because I have allergies and the drainage tickles my throat sometimes. And the dry air in the plane probably does not help. Allergies are not contagious but germ-phobes might make a big enough stink to kick someone with allergies off the plane.

Some people just need to walk around in plastic bubbles I guess, if they want to protect themselves from every little thing.

[uppityperson]

38. It would give her time to make sure she was ok. Make sure it was not a serious problem.

Obviously if giving her a bit more time showed she had a serious medical/health problem, get her help, not on a plane. If waiting a bit to make sure she didn't have a problem beyond a coughing fit, let her fly. Sorry, no hard and fast rules. Play it by ear.

[tanyev]

4. Well, all those people trapped on planes for hours and hours should have started coughing.

Who knew it was so easy?

[sharp_stick]

23. LOL, I will remember that n/t

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bill McBlueState]

6. so what's their policy?

At some point, a sick person is too sick to fly, both for their own safety and that of the people around them. But Continental needs to have a clear policy about how sick is too sick, and who makes that decision. This article makes it sound like it's entirely at the whim of the pilot.

[46and2]

9. I think the Captain

is expected to make a judgement call in the best interest of the safety of the passengers on his/her plane.

[pitohui]

55. the pilot gets to decide who flies and that is FIRM

no pilot on any american carrier has to fly with someone who makes him or her uncomfortable about flying

that's pretty hard and fast

it's his ass if he lets her fly and some hours later she's dying over an ocean because there is no place to divert the plane for a medical emergency

he erred on the side of safety, as any trained pilot responsible for a plane full of hundreds of other people SHOULD do

good for him and good for CO

no "policy" should over-ride the judgment of the experienced pilot on the scene

[Scout1071]

8. Sorry, I would be pissed off to spend 10 hours in the air with a

sick teenager that couldn't stop coughing. Based on what I just read, I don't disagree. It's a confined space....FOR 10 HOURS. Why should all the other passengers be subjected to a potentially infectious passenger for 10 HOURS?

[treestar]

11. Are all flights this crowded?

Once my sister was sick on a plane, and she complained of the discomfort. I think the friend she was traveling with had the flu, too. But that was back in the 80s and the plane wasn't 100% full.

What about the barf bags they keep on planes? I guess that isn't contagious, so people who get airsick can still go? Still must be hard on their seatmates, though.

[Scout1071]

14. The barf bags are for people who get air sick, not for people with the flu.

It is dangerous to fly when you are contagious. You are with a couple hundred people in a small tube breathing recycled air. It's a recipe for infection.

[karlrschneider]

17. Yep. by the way, airsickness is VERY rare these days.

It was common in the old days when planes weren't pressurized and air-conditioned and flew at low altitude where it's likely to be hot and bumpy.

[Jonathan50]

48. Cabin air is fresher than in virtually any other enclosed place.

http://www.aircanada.com/en/travelinfo/onboard/healthtips.html

The Cabin Environment

A) Air Quality: In all modern pressurized aircraft, half the cabin air is fresh air drawn in via the engines with the other half recirculated from the cabin. The recirculated air is ducted through an air filter (see HEPA below) before being reintroduced into the cabin. There is a total air change (filtered recirculated plus outside air) every 2 - 3 minutes or 20 to 30 exchanges per hour. This is far more than for any home or office building and easily maintains cabin contaminants to low levels. Several studies of the past l0 - 15 years have confirmed that the levels of volatile organic compounds (solvents), airborne particulates, carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, ozone and microbials were well within acceptable health levels of our regulatory agencies.

The newer aircraft with recirculation systems use High Efficiency Particulate Air Filters (HEPA). They are the same as in hospital operating rooms and trap particulates and microbials (bacteria, fungi, and some viruses). Although there have been cases of infectious disease transmission in aircraft cabins, there is evidence that transmission was due to person-to-person contact by breathing or coughing on one’s neighbor rather than through the aircraft ventilation system. Person-to-person transmission can occur in any confined space whether in an airplane, office, or room. For this reason, individuals with contagious diseases, particularly serious ones such as TB, should not travel by air until the illness is in remission.

[pnwmom]

53. That certainly isn't true when the plane is sitting on the tarmac.

[treestar]

59. It's still going to bother the person in the next seat

Or at least, some people who would end up in the next seat. I imagine that's next.

[MidwestTransplant]

13. You could always just open the window to get some fresh air in...jeeeeze

;)

[sharp_stick]

20. Everybody is potentially infectious

just because they don't cough doesn't mean that they washed their hands properly the last time took a dump.

[pnwmom]

28. But someone with a bad cough is probably infectious.

Either that, or the girl was having a serious asthma attack, and shouldn't have flown until they knew she was really okay.

[treestar]

12. Why not just take OTC medicine - most of them work well

enough to keep you from coughing constantly with the flu.

[karlrschneider]

16. I agree with the captain. Pilots have to err on the side of caution.

For all he knew, the girl could have died on the way. I guess that would have pleased all the critics. :eyes:

[Poll_Blind]

41. I agree with you. n/t

PB

[madrchsod]

19. a doctor on the flight said she would be OK

to make the 10-hour flight. she had a cold so i would say she reacted-dry throat/sinus- to the to the air in the plane when she woke up. if everyone who had a cold could`t fly the airlines would be in worse shape than what they are now...

[46and2]

22. I'm no MD...

I only play one on DU.... But, it sounds to me, based on the symptoms and my own child's experience, that she has whooping cough and that can be highly contagious.

[pnwmom]

52. Yikes! Yes, my niece had that and it gave her a terrific cough. It's actually

fairly common among teens and young adults.

Welcome to DU!

[pnwmom]

51. A doctor who didn't know her and who specializes in . . . what?

Sometimes asthma can't be diagnosed without special equipment and even then, it sometimes cannot be detected except in the midst of an actual attack. We have no idea what kind of medical exam this girl had.

[karlrschneider]

57. That doctor had neither the right nor the responsibility to make a decision.

Unless he was a Continental employee with the authority to over-ride the captain, and that's not possible.

[gatorboy]

21. Hey, coulda been worse!

[gollygee]

24. SOMEONE has to be in charge of the plane, and that's the captain

He might very well have been concerned about *her* safety on a 10-hour flight if she was coughing so badly she couldn't speak.

I wouldn't be comfortable second-guessing him.

[LibDemAlways]

25. My elderly uncle attended a family Christmas gathering

last December at which two people who should have known better showed up sick. He caught one of their colds. It developed into pneumonia and a month later he was dead.

People who are sick should keep their germs to themselves. Few things are more annoying than sitting in close quarters near someone who is hacking away.

I take my parents to church on Sundays and inevitably someone nearby will be coughing, blowing their nose, etc. and then reach over to shake hands during the "sign of peace." Uh, no thanks.

That pilot was right. Someody coughing so hard aboard an airplane that she required assistance had no business being there.

[pnwmom]

26. If she had had a fatal asthma attack on the long flight,

the airline would have been held responsible. The parents' lawyers probably would have argued that anyone who was coughing so hard that she couldn't speak, and was gasping for breath, shouldn't have been allowed to fly.

And they would have been right.

The mother is wrong to say that everyone has "coughing fits." Her daughter should be checked for asthma.

[gravity]

29. I don't see anything wrong.

I don't think that everyone who is sick should be barred from the flight, but there is always a limit to how sick the person can be before it's considered a danger. If there is uncontrollable coughing, then theres reason to suspect something can go wrong, and the safety of the passenger and other passengers could be compromised.

I think it's good the the airline paid for their expenses afterward. I would get pissed if they didn't. but I believe the airlines used sound judgment in this case.

[1monster]

40. Having kicked her off the plane despite an onboard doctor saying she

would be okay for the flight, the airlines should not only have been responsible for her extra expenses, THEY should have arranged accommodations for the student and her teacher.

Heck they didn't have any of their luggage with them since it was already in the belly of the plane!

[uppityperson]

44. They should have done this, regardless of any onboard doctor

Treat her as a bumped passenger. Get a room, another flight.

[Poll_Blind]

46. When you go to a new doctor they contact your old doctor to get...

...your folder with your previous visits, etc. They do this so they can understand fully, or more fully, about what conditions you suffer from and which conditions you might be susceptable to. This doctor had none of those materials available and made gave their best assessment given the information which was available to them.

  But patients are not always honest with their doctors. Sometimes they are forgetful. Sometimes, in this case, they may change their answer to be the "most pleasing" for the situation to move along smoothly.

  But those are all cases in which a doctor may not be fully informed. I believe the pilot, having dealt with the public and relied on the observations of the stewards and stewardesses, made the best choice based on safety considering that they airplane cannot just pull up to a Shell station and ask for directions to the nearest hospital should a complication arise.

PB

[oldcoot]

56. I disagree

I personally do not have a problem with the pilot kicking them off the plane but I do have a problem with the fact that they were stranded in New York. According to the article, the teacher and the girl "didn't know what to do or where to stay, she said. They finally found accommodations in New York and bought clothes and toiletries." While I am glad that Continental has decided to reimburse the girl's expenses and I hope they are reimbursing the teacher's expenses, the airline had a moral obligation to help these two people out in the beginning. Once the pilot kicked them off the plane, staff from Continental should have immediately booked them a hotel room and provided them with the necessities.

I also wonder why Continental did not arrange to take this girl to the hospital if there were concerns about her health. This way they could have made sure she was not contagious before allowing her to fly the next day.

[donco6]

62. It's not the airlines reponsibility to pay for medical care.

Who would pay the medical transport costs?

I think the airline handled it very well.

[Poll_Blind]

36. It's the pilot's ultimate call- he or she is responsible for the safety of....

...the passengers. A doctor talked to her briefly and gives a diagnosis but that diagnosis didn't and shouldn't, particularly, carry weight with the pilot.

  The person on the plane who bears ultimate responsibility for the safety of the passengers, within reason, is the pilot.

  Better safe than sorry, better safe than sued. I think the girl may have over-dramatized her condition, freaking out unnecessarily as children/youngsters do. That likely worked against her in the pilot's decision, because it probably looked worse (was reported to him has being more dramatic, possibly) than it was.

PB

[pitohui]

54. they need to do this more often

i was on a flight during the SARS scare and this stupid lady coughed for the entire international flight, we were not allowed to leave the plane and enter the country until she was escorted somewhere and given medical tests! she was sneaky and didn't start until after the plane had already taken off, i strongly suspect she'd been drinking a cough suppressant, then she went on coughing scarily hard for hours

if you are too sick to fly, for the love of pete, don't get on a plane that's going over the ocean or that's flying to another continental land mass or another country

the girl says herself that she could not stop coughing, no responsible carrier would allow her to remain on a 10 hour flight!

if she had been allowed to stay on the plane and died in flight, CO would have been sued for millions of dollars

and rightfully so

[DefenseLawyer]

58. The good news for her

is that John Wesley Hardin was not on the flight.