What is the deal with the ugliness in comments to female bloggers?

[Hello_Kitty]

I write for a local progressive blog. I cover mostly local news but also do some opinion pieces on major political issues. Like many bloggers, I'm often snarky and sarcastic but nothing approaching what you'd read on the Rude Pundit or Wonkette. My views are the standard liberal ones and not any different from a number of male bloggers in my community. Yet, the anger and vitriol directed at me by commenters is staggering. It's one thing to disagree with me but I've been called the horrible vulgar names and even threatened. My detractors often make insulting comments about my appearance, which is that of an average 40 year old woman and has no relevance to my opinions anyway. My male blogger friends don't get nearly as much crap as I do. The only one who comes close to being as abused as I am is a local newspaper columnist who is very scathing about local political figures. He's a large man and much of the insulting commentary about him targets his weight.

Honestly, I love doing my blog but I'm scared to open my comments sometimes. We moderate so the really bad ones don't usually show up but I still have to see them. I'm no delicate flower and I'm not going to stop writing. It feels like an attempt to silence and intimidate me and I know that other female bloggers experience the same thing. I remember it being especially bad years ago on sites like Usenet. The minute you identified yourself as a female you the whole tone of comments toward you changed. It got to the point where I stayed out of chatrooms and blogs because it was either a)identify yourself as a female and put up with a ration of shit or b) keep your gender ambiguous and read horrible things about your gender.

What gives with that? :shrug:

[Odin2005]

1. Assholes that are offended by "uppity" opinionated women?

[sentelle]

223. I like "uppity" opinionated women

and if I comment on their blog its because of what they say, not their sex. And I must love "uppity" opinionated women, since I married one.

[seabeyond]

227. it takes a confident strong man.... lol.

a man secure in himself and doesnt need the constant validation from other men.

i sit in awe of husband. how laid back and mellow he is in all the storm.

you just have me smilin.

was thinkin about this and him this weekend.

[Kitty Herder]

2. Same old misogyny, new medium.

It doesn't help that this new medium gives these assholes the advantage of anonymity so they can express their misogyny without fear of being identified for the assholes they are in real life.

[ThomCat]

25. The anonymity of the internet has give freedom to express sexism.

There is the old expression, "What you would do if you knew you could get away with it tells who you really are."

Well, the vicious sexism we see online shows that a whole lot of people are viciously misogynists, regardless of what image they try to project in real life. They think that their sexism is reasonable, but it shows that given the slightest opportunity they become unreasonable and let their bigotry out for all to see.

This just goes to show that sexism and misogyny are far more pervasive and rampant that most people want to believe. We have far more of an uphill struggle ahead of us that people may have believed if we want to overcome this and create a society where women are not subject to prejudice, bigotry, inequality and double standards.

It strength and vitriol behind the attacks also shows that violence is not far behind the verbal attacks. Hatred of women can turn into gender based violence very easily, and we can't afford to stop taking this very seriously.

:(

Our society, or culture is steeped in sexism. We are born into it, raised in it, invested in it, and live wallowing in it. Everywhere we look around us there is sexism. It is any surprise that at the slightest opportunity it rears its ugly head and becomes vicious?

[seabeyond]

84. excellent points

more pervasive and rampant

i think that is what took months for me to reconcile. the extent and number of men that showed the behavior on the net. yes i met handfuls here and there in life, but nothing like on the net.

"What you would do if you knew you could get away with it tells who you really are."


i really like this. this is a part of my world when i post, it is in my mind. if i cannot say it face to face, then i shouldnt be saying hiding behind a computer.

[Triana]

110. EXACTLY what ThomCat said. Yep. n/t

[BlancheSplanchnik]

139. you explain it very well.

yes.

[pollo poco]

168. yup n/t

[autorank]

180. And a sense of secual inadequacy

That's the source of this, imho. Bunch of guys who feel neutered by the system but, instead of fighting
for their rights, they attack women, the convenient target.

Here's how screwed up it is. 20% of high school girls are sexually assaulted before they graduate
from high school. Ever hear that one? It's consistent and found in reliable surveys over time.

We have a society that survives on dinosaur remains and views women as objects of derision.

We've got some work to do.

[alp227]

187. Online, there must be a lot of abusive men whose girlfriends left them

and so they just do their dirt online when they can't find a good btch to beat. Given the national unemployment rate trolling rates online should be rising like crazy with more and more and more people finding nothing useful to do in their pathethic lives.

[Echo In Light]

198. The anonymity of the medium affords all sorts of ugliness that posters likely hide in real life

There's a sizable % who apparently use it for little else than calling other people names ... see it here at DU all the time.

[omega minimo]

204. Yes and women/feminists are one of the subgroups

it's "okay" to flame, attack and marginalize.

[Arugula Latte]

212. I'm always astonished at the name calling on, say, youtube.

For no reason, people will just throw insults at anyone who posts. My son was watching a video of crazy snow sledding (flips off a snow jump, etc.), very innocuous, very non-controversial, and the comment right under the clip was something about wanting to tie you (unspecified you) and pour butter on you so flies will lay eggs and maggots will crawl over you. I mean, seriously, :wtf: Where does all this hate come from?

[redqueen]

202. "What you would do if you knew you could get away with it..."

That reminds me of that study of how many men would rape a woman if they knew they could get away with it.


"Our society, or culture is steeped in sexism. We are born into it, raised in it, invested in it, and live wallowing in it. Everywhere we look around us there is sexism."

Yep. It's not a surprising to see it, but it would be nice if more people would call it out so that we could start changing things. Far too many don't want things to change.

[omega minimo]

205. "Far too many don't want things to change."

That includes those who marginalize women/feminist issues and other issues that are interrelated, many of them crucial progressive issues, including spirituality, environmentalism, health, many things lumped together and kicked in the face as "woo." :thumbsdown:


"Our society, or culture is steeped in sexism. We are born into it, raised in it, invested in it, and live wallowing in it. Everywhere we look around us there is sexism."

[Book Lover]

3. Beautiful. Already one unrec

HK, men hate us. Just get used to it and the surprise disappears. Unfortunately, it's not replaced by anything better than disgust.

[Teaser]

4. The Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory

[Hello_Kitty]

15. LOL! I love that. eom

[jacko_be]

114. but how do they know if you are ugli or not ?

[liberalmike27]

179. Or at times

An uncomfortable honesty not seen without the anonymity.
I kind of like the ability to speak ones mind, without being condemned, or having broader issues I may speak of being personalized.

[BlooInBloo]

5. Yep - has always been that way on the intertubez. Boys can be really shitty to girls...

when anonymous.

[kestrel91316]

6. Standard RW tactic. Attack a woman for not being pretty.

As if that mattered anywhere but in their fevered minds.

[seabeyond]

9. rw my ass. male tactic. nt

[kestrel91316]

58. I have only got from conservatives, not liberals.

[seabeyond]

62. well good for you. i am glad to hear. not my experience, but works for me

that it works for you.

[Common Sense Party]

74. Yeah. Two words:

Sarah Palin. Google some DU Palin threads.

[question everything]

152. Just surf DU and you will see

if you are honest about it.

Look at all the threads about Polanski and about Letterman.

[omega minimo]

197. Look at all the threads

that are never put up at all or are immediately hijacked and shut down.

Oh, you can't see them.

They're invisible.

[seabeyond]

7. we see it often on du. degrading language to women. a woman calls them out, they precede to

degradation as a tool to shut her up. a relatively new phenomenon from our liberal and progressive males as they tell us how much they respect women

we. see. it. often.

SOME guys.

[Hello_Kitty]

8. Yeah, it can definitely get bad here.

But at least we have mods who will delete offensive comments and tombstone the trolls. I've participated in some heated flamewars and gotten a nasty PM or two but no one has threatened me with physical violence yet.

[seabeyond]

10. physical violence does tend to rw, agree with poster above i just disagreed with. nt

[Maru Kitteh]

18. you can't take a joke, you hate men, you need to lighten up, you must hate sex, you must be old and

ugly, you must be a lesbian, you must be frigid, you are a puritanical prude, your man must be whipped - IF YOU EVEN HAVE ONE....


Am I leaving anything out here? I think I've had most of these hurled at me at one time or another in my life.

[seabeyond]

20. your husband tells you he doesnt he lied. jealous. yup yup yup. pretty good. i think that

is a wrap

the manhater though. that is when they have lost argument and resort to

YOU MANHATER

[pollo poco]

170. plenty of dining room tables, too

By that I mean: People who have not taken the time to learn anything about the well documented realities of gender based discrimination. People who don't understand the importance of feminist theory to the argument for racial equality.(historically, the two are quite closely linked) People who have never read the history of the civil rights movement. People who have never read the studies clearly and exhaustively documenting the endless permutations of the gross prejudice women have to deal with in work and educational settings. These people do not hesitate to open their mouths and start spewing pig ignorant crap, just like the tea baggers. No need for knowledge here. Half baked opinion will suffice. Just make it all up as you go along, and call anyone who disagrees with you a hate based name.

Then they ask for links, and I just want to say: I can't link you to an education you should have sought before you entered the discussion. Shall I also provide you with links for racism? Mathematics? For the history of warfare? For the science of physics? Shall I take responsibility for your appalling ignorance on all subjects that you should already be conversant in? Where would I start? The remedy is quite beyond me. It's like people who are in denial that gravity exists, floating their opinions as equal to those of an educated physicist.

Used to drive me nuts. Now I just say, "Dining room table. Why would I talk to you?"

[seabeyond]

172. all of what you say and one step further. they go on to tell me HOW i am suppose to think

all their lack of knowledge adn experience, they ignore what the female has to say and say they know better.

i NEVER assume i know what a black, gay or man experiences. i ask. i listen. how arrogant to assume i KNOW and they do not know. they are wrong about themselves.

[Maru Kitteh]

26. Oh yes. I forgot that one. You're husband cheats, you just don't know it. If he hasn't - HE WILL

He's only married/with you because you MADE him do it.

[seabeyond]

29. yes yes. all the women of the world made all the men of the world ask us to marry them

they all walk down the fuckin isle muttering ball and chain.

like no conditioning there folks.... lol

i have already TAUGHT my boys about that bullshit.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

140. you can find funny tee-shirts

showing a stick figure bride and groom...says "Game Over", with a happy-face on HER and a frown-face on HIM.

same old joke. so old.

[seabeyond]

143. again a perpetuated lie that holds no truth that we recycle ad nauseoum and expected to buy as a

reality.

we know better. we know males as well as females want to connect with one. we know this is a non truth told, regularly and we are suppose to say, ok, i buy it.

i. dont. get. that. at. all.

it makes no logical sense to me, and we do it as a society, willingly

[BlancheSplanchnik]

147. yep..ironic when you consider the statistics

showing men have higher depression, suicide numbers as singles or post-divorce than women.

[wolfgangmo]

206. I was reading a book called the Female Brain

by Dr. Louann Brizendine and she mentioned that women are, to a certain extent, hardwired for relationship building, sometimes much more than men. So it makes sense that men are more depressed and suicidal than women post divorce /death of spouse because many men do not bother to establish their own social networks and suddenly find themselves totally and completely alone whereas their former spouses are surrounded by supportive friends.

Women, based on my experiences with my mother and wife, are MUCH smarter than most men I have met.

[seabeyond]

209. i wonder though. i wonder if it really is hardwired, or if it is a lifetime of conditioning, and

repressing emotion in our young boys. telling them who they are, how they are suppose to believe per society, what they are suppose to think.

i agree that males tend to this, but i also see with my boys, never having squashed their expression of their emotions, how capable they are at identifying what is going on with them, what the feel, ergo able to better solve their issues and put in proper place.

girls are literally taught... verbally and with care taught to be empathic and embrace ALL their emotions. boys are taught ... literally taught to suck up those emotions, dont cry like a girl, dont feel, dont express, not manly. i have never seen a little boy unable to identify with their emotions, but i have watched boys learn to buck up, stuff those emotions real deep where they dont show, actively work on not feeling what they are feeling.

as much as i allowed with boys, and they are good at expressing feeling, i watched my oldest at about 11/12 work on suppressing because he needed to do that to get along with the other boys at school.

but we talk about the what and why of what he was doing. valid, yes. but recognize. and dont lose ability to identify what he is feeling. too important

my husband regularly thanks me that i have allowed this with boys and they are capable. one of the things that really bothers him, in a home where they were not allow what they feel, and the suppression for a life time.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

230. I'm kind of a hermit, myself....

I need to improve on keeping up connections. I mean, I am great at work, but work is far from where we live, and I suck at calling, travelling out to see people, and all that stuff that fertilizes friendships......

Anyway, about smarts....I've heard that so many times, men saying women are smarter than most men. So I just don't understand why we are so under-represented in achievements. Even taking into account the history of being barred from the world outside of home/family, of having men take credit for our ideas, of being overlooked or forgotten....

It seems so many of us still opt to submerge our talents in the tasks of kinder, kirche, kuchen, so that seems to be one reason we seem to be so inactive in the "outside world". I don't know; I'm not and never have been a kid fan, so I don't understand the putting a gift, career, craft or talent that you love on hold indefinitely while you sink into a world that is not very intellectually stimulating (sorry, no offense meant. I just find all things baby-related to be incredibly smothering and dull. So I can't relate at all to the "biological imperative")

I don't know, don't have any answers here. Just some thoughts as I read you.

[liberalhistorian]

169. Like the disgusting cup holder I saw in a store

the other day that said "Married men don't live longer, it just seems that way". Of course, the ones that say "I have PMS and a gun, are you really sure you want to fuck with me" and the like aren't any better.

[seabeyond]

173. and this is a big part of the problem. the women that fall into line with this. how many blacks,

how many gays embrace the denigration as something to feel proud of. accept from man that is really who they are

that is why palin was such an issue in a feminist perspective. she used sexuality, cause that was ALL she had and played right into that shit women have been fighting forever.

[Kalyke]

222. When a woman begins to start her menstrual cycle, her estrogen

level drops, while her testosterone and progesterone levels remain the same and/or increase.

Therefore, women who have PMS are really only acting like men.

And, that is a proven fact: it's not reverse sexism. It's merely a conduit to show how little men understand female issues - even when it should effect them, as well.

The female hormone estrogen starts to rise after menstruation and peaks around mid-cycle (ovulation). It then rapidly drops only to slowly rise and then fall again in the time before menstruation. Estrogen hold fluid and with increasing estrogen comes fluid retention: many women report weight gains of five pounds premenstrually.

http://www.usdoctor.com/pms.htm

[Kitty Herder]

157. It's a crazy lie and I'm surprised anyone buys it anymore.

Marriage benefits men more than it does women. Usually the woman does most of the childcare, housework, and cooking. Married men live longer than single men; married women don't live as long as single women. Men are more likely to get remarried after divorce and sooner.

But the lie keeps women desperate to marry, so I guess it works.

I remember when I was nineteen and my best friend had just gotten engaged to her self-righteous, sexist asshole of a husband. I said to my mom, "What he should have said when he asked her to marry him is, 'Will you clean my toilets for the rest of your life?'"

Mom was kind of shocked that I said that. I didn't even consciously know I harbored such feelings about marriage until that came out of my mouth.

I'm not against marriage. I just think marriage should be an equal partnership. That's hard to find, which is probably why I'm still unmarried. But I will settle for nothing less than an equal partnership. It is a far better thing to be single than to settle for an unequal marriage.

I think women should always remember that men want marriage more than they do. They should also ask themselves if what he's really asking when he gets down on his knee is, "Will you clean my toilets for the rest of my life?"

[seabeyond]

160. i never had desire to marry. i was never gonna be on unequal ground and that meant

either gender. i did not want to raise a husband and i did not want another father.

the only reason i gave marriage a try is i found a man that has no desire, none, nada, not a bet of desire to ontrol me. none. doesnt want to do me, respects me, allows me to be me in the good the bad and the ugly.

but it is both ways.

there isnt a chance he wants me to be his mother. and if that was what he was looking for i couldnt/wouldnt

i think that was the easy for hubby and i. i didnt want his power, he doesnt want us. we want each other to be empowered.

and neither of us manipulate the other. we recognize it to easily. and each of us now the other recognizes it. wouldnt work fro either of us.

it can be had. but i would not settle either. was 32 when i got married

single, i was amazed the number fo guys attracted to me because of independence and confidence. and in no time of dating, that was what they were working their ass off to supress. the very thing that attracted tehm to me.

[LuckyLib]

184. I remember my reaction to the old "Ring Around the Collar" ads on TV for some laundry soap.

The guy is angry that his shirts aren't clean. I was a young teen, and I spouted off about "Do your own damned laundry." My Mom was shocked! Later on, as she aged and "got it" I reminded her of that and she said, "you were right about that." Women know this, in their hearts. Many men don't get it. Hang in there. I married late, found a guy for whom cooking, laundry, and cleaning toilets are three of many things that need to be shared in the community of housekeeping. He's a gem. And a wonderful role model for our daughter.

[Odin2005]

27. I'm a guy and I was told that I need to "lighten up and take a joke" when some assholes...

...make jokes involving rape at a karaoke bar, triggering a friend's PTSD. her BF and I was THIS close to punching the asholes' lights out! :grr:

[seabeyond]

30. tell a black or gay joke they will say the same. difference, du will call them out on a black

or gay joke.

[ThomCat]

106. We have had to fight and argue very hard to get gay jokes banned

around here and a hell of a lot of good LGBT members were banned in the process. Having them banned in principle, and then really banned in practice turned out to be two entirely different things. :(

We still have a situation here where we are expected to put up with the rampant homophobia until it reaches the point where it is blatant enough for a certain number of straight people to accept and agree with us that it is somehow offensive. Until then, our word isn't good enough, and offending us doesn't really matter. Only the opinions of straight people really seem to matter. :grr:

Unfortunately, regarding sexism and misogyny, we don't seem to have progressed even that far, and we've lost even more good feminists here than we have LGBT members. This place bleeds minority progressives because we aren't taken seriously. This is very much a straight white man's domain here still.

:(

It would be nice if DU was the progressive site it claims to be, and really welcomed and supported minority progressives, especially activist minority progressives.

[CrispyQ]

117. Gender, not race, is the first division of our species.

It will be the last wall we tear down, if we do. Couple that with a culture & numerous religions that view women as objects, as nothing more than an extension of men - we were created from man's rib, after all! :eyes: :puke: - & you can see what a battle eradicating this type of thought & behavior is.

Which leads me to wonder: would the tea baggers be as virulently opposed to President Hillary Clinton as they are to President Obama? My own right wing mother hated Hillary more than she hated Bill - go figure. But I think in some areas & certainly in some groups, it is more acceptable to express racism than misogyny. ???

[treestar]

163. I was thinking about that

My thought is they would not, because she is white, and being a white woman, they would see her as under control of some white men somewhere.

Remember how they "hated the President, and her husband too?" because Hillary had a career, they assumed she was in control of Bill.

If she were President now, they'd flip over and claim it was Bill's "third term."

[ThomCat]

105. I remember you posting about that.

Put alcohol in people and obnoxious behavior is almost certain to follow, with almost always involved demeaning women. :(

I wish I could say I have never heard people joke and laugh about rape. You would think there are some things so horrible that they just aren't funny. But I've had to endure guys laughing about how funny it would be if x got raped because she turned someone down, or how women really want to be raped sometimes. I've become the asshole who made a scene and told people off several times. :grr:

It isn't likely to ever happen again. I rarely ever go out anymore, and when I do it is with a large group, so I'm insulated from those kind of guys now. But I'm sure they're still out there. :(

[Odin2005]

112. It's so pathetic, isn't it?

It's certainly been bad for my OCD, trying to keep the obsessive fears of thinking that sick shit out of my head, driving me to tears. :banghead: :cry:

[BuelahWitch]

76. One poster told me once he felt sorry for me (because I didn't agree with him)

And another said that he thought my MySpace page was stupid (because I disagreed with him). Both of these were in the same thread, btw.

[ThomCat]

107. I am sorry you get condescending shit like that.

And I am sorry that it isn't recognized as personal attacks.

Yes, very often those attacks are sexist. Men say that shit to women when they don't say shit like that to other men. But because there isn't a blatant sexist smear it will never get recognized as a sexist attack.

[BuelahWitch]

115. Thanks Thom!

And you are completely correct about the men vs. women shit. All the women in the thread were being attacked, but none of the men were. I'll never get in the middle of a gun thread again, I'll tell you that much! :rofl:

[JoeyT]

99. You missed...

"But men have to deal with that stuff too sometimes, so you have no right to complain about it!" is another tired one that gets trotted out all the time.
There's an alternate to the prude remark too: You're either going to be called a prude or a whore(or something like it), depending on your position relative to the asshole making the comment. There is no middle ground, you're going to be called one or the other.

[blondeatlast]

144. Or get both within the same conversation (I've seen that right here at DU).

Anyway, welcome to DU--most everyone here is cool, even when things gget heated.

:toast:

[BlancheSplanchnik]

116. "oh, that's just slang, everyone says that...

Why do you have to go there?"

[seabeyond]

122. you mean "ho" that i am? lol. nt

[BlancheSplanchnik]

125. oh, ho ho ho!

[omega minimo]

151. Is that laughter

or a scary dentata reference? :yoiks:

[BlancheSplanchnik]

156. .

*snort!*

lucky for us, we can easily dispel that primal fear simply by looking down! (Not that I can imagine who would harbor such a fear, aside from orthodox Freudians.....)

[Chulanowa]

185. Easily impressionable people who watch the "Alien" series of movies

That critter is like thirty different Freudian sexual anxieties rolled into one.

[blondeatlast]

142. Yup. I went on a blind date a week ago Friday. I heard most of that, plus,

"you are bitter over your divorce."

Of course, it had nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that he was a self-centered jerk. :eyes:

[redqueen]

199. And for the men who speak up for feminism: you're just trying to impress women,

you're a self-hating man, you're brainwashed....

Such nonsense... all to protect their fragile belief system... which is just a bunch of useless, counterproductive, ego-driven myths.

[seabeyond]

200. all to protect their fragile belief system...ego-driven myths. i do not get it. i dont

get lying to self.... to promote ego. i understand with the young. but as we mature and as we grow up, i dont get what there is to protect...

[redqueen]

203. Just an urge to protect the status quo?

A desire to retain the perks of privilege?

[Odin2005]

24. That stuff is pathetic.

When I disagree with, say, Omega Minimo, and criticize her position on something I do just that. I get disgusted when other posters flame her with sexist crap and troll for a response.

[Maru Kitteh]

35. I have the same kind of disgust for people who denigrate men for their gender alone

It is in fact part of what is wrong with many of the posters who make such statements about women. They operate on the assumption that all of their fellow males are as wretched as they are.

[ThomCat]

33. Yes, unfortunately, you are very right. It has always been common here.

:(

Sexism is often the norm here, and even the accepted norm here. Unfortunately, it has to get very blatant and brutal before it is obvious enough to be recognized by non-feminists and then acted upon. Until then, feminists are frequently accused of being overly sensitive, imagining things that aren't there, etc.

We are expected to put up with sexism until it reaches the threshold that offends non-feminists, and if we don't then we are the ones that get attacked and drive out of here. :(

That is why sexism is so persistent and remains a problem.

[seabeyond]

38. big thumbsup thomcat. you always hit it right on, and much more articulate

but then about all are more articulate than i... lol lol

good seeing you

hope all is well

[BlancheSplanchnik]

126. happened to me!

I used to be at DU with a different name!
:hide:


...got tombstoned, as did a bunch of other women who took sexist posters or statements to task. I usually tried to refrain from ad hominems; sometimes I did verbally lacerate people, but only in response if they warranted it with ugly condescension, obtuseness, nastyness. And when I got upset and angry, I made sure to make it clear that I was venting, not personally attacking, apologize if I seemed unfair...... So I really wondered how I got judged as *ahem* dangerous to the community.

Anyway, this subject, the intransigent nature of sexism, and the violence resulting to women, not to mention less blatant insults to quality of life.... just too upsetting sometimes. Can't hang out at this thread too long, seems like..

[omega minimo]

130. and remember to always use 'SOME'

in front of nouns, when what you mean is general and some of those nouns with thin skins will immediately freak out that you are attacking them PERSONALLY because SOME of those nouns don't understand that it is NOT ALL ABOUT THEM (and don't realize that that self absorption is a big part of the communication problem).

[BlancheSplanchnik]

137. yes, self-absorption makes communication difficult

And the socialized influences we live with in the "mainstream", which we are surrounded by (like fish in water ;) ) STILL contain the message that men are the primary act-ers in the world, the Center, the Opinion.

[omega minimo]

129. Why?

"Unfortunately, it has to get very blatant and brutal before it is obvious enough to be recognized by non-feminists and then acted upon."

"We are expected to put up with sexism until it reaches the threshold that offends non-feminists, and if we don't then we are the ones that get attacked and drive out of here."


That's what DU Rules "based on respect" are for. Where is the respect in what you've described? Why does "what offends the non feminists" define the threshold? That's like saying "Let the bigots be offensive until even the bigots are offended by their own bigotry."

Another possibility would be to set the bar high enough that respect was equal opportunity and consistently applied. :thumbsup:

[Kitty Herder]

158. Amen.

[gleaner]

231. Probably the same guys ...

who would suffer from penis envy. If they had a penis to begin with. I always thought that the petite size of a man's penis was in direct proportion to the large amount of vitriol in his remarks toward women.

These men do not carry a useful tool, which is why they have a screw or two loose.

[alphafemale]

11. My user name has generally been some version of what it is here in every fora I've been a member.

That has seemed to really be like the scent of fresh meat for the hounds.

You really have to consider the source, though.

They are not worth a moment of fretting over.

But, I have to admit in sometimes taking pleasure at smacking the fools down.

[BlooInBloo]

17. hahahaha! I would imagine that's a large part of the reason you like that name?

:rofl:

[alphafemale]

31. Funny thing is...that's NOT why I originally chose it.

I chose it because my kids were both pretty young at the time.

This was back in my A Oh..Hell days.

Gawd. 11 or 12 years ago? I di know that Clinton was still President.

I chose it because we were all pretty enthralled by wolves. To me Alpha Female just meant Mama.

Of course, the reaction to it by some people was a delicious bonus. :fistbump:

[BlooInBloo]

39. Oooh - mama bear with cublets. Heh. Nothing like a two-fer.

:)

[Odin2005]

87. Never piss off Mom!

[alphafemale]

100. I used to tell my kids. "If Mama Ain't Happy...Ain't Nobody Gonna be Happy."

:hi:

[seabeyond]

19. "not worth a moment of fretting over" that is the bottom line. shows their foolishness, stupidity

really they know nothing about us. nothing they say can hit a button cause they are clueless. just makes them stupid and adolescent

[alphafemale]

49. They are like chihuahuas behind a glass.

yap-bugeye-yap indeed

:rofl:

[seabeyond]

50. lol lol. i think i have even had that picture in conversation with a couple of them.

btw, knowing why you chose your name, i like it. always liked it. but like it so much more

[BlooInBloo]

59. Not perfectly on topic, but close...

I always chuckle when I see this.

http://ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20030526

[seabeyond]

63. thats funny, though. lol. nt

[BlooInBloo]

69. :) Another facet of How Boys Treat Girls On Teh Intertubez.

[lumberjack_jeff]

75. Funny. n/t

[Odin2005]

111. OMG, that is hysterical!!!

:rofl:

[blondeatlast]

150. Oh, so true. nt

[Control-Z]

40. alphafemale?

Oh, my, my, silly girl. You're just asking for it, aren't you? :sarcasm:

[alphafemale]

97. It is hilarious at how the silliest things can send some people off on a tangent

I really don't get offended by idiots. Let alone anonymous idiots on the internets.

[ThePantaloon.com]

12. Here's my theory

People who talk like that on blogs are cowards. These are men who would never say a thing in a bar to a woman or insult anyone the way they do online. It's a cover for their insecurity. Just call them on it in their posts - vociferously- and they will back down. Or, better yet, blog about it...

[seabeyond]

21. cowards, insecure. that is what i see when i hear it. nt

[girl gone mad]

79. Insecurity is exactly what it is.

Jealousy and insecurity, and a modern male ego that is too often built around sexual exploitation and denigration of women rather than actual achievement, status, or self-respect.

I was on a date once, walking down the street, when a random stranger pushed me and started shouting that I was in his way (I wasn't). My date was genuinely shocked by the incident and told me he had thought that people were always nice to attractive young women. I think that myth contributes to the misogyny we see. Men assume that women have it easier and are unfairly handed opportunities so they (subconsciously or not) attempt to level the playing field and get back at women for this perceived injustice.

[Nikki Stone1]

13. This is nothing new. Misogyny is the undercurrent.

When you make posts or state views that threaten others and you are female, males, in particular, feel like they need to make double the effort in taking you down. Ask Hillary Clinton about this some time.

[seabeyond]

22. pelosi. GOP general needs to PUT HER IN HER PLACE. hm, what decade are

we in

[Nikki Stone1]

44. It's not a decade, it's a penis.

Underneath, I think they all feel like that. Look at how they treat rape cases on this board: all women who claim to have been raped are "liars" and Polanski was a great guy who did nothing wrong.

Yeah, I'm jaded.

[seabeyond]

46. polanski was so bad the strong majority guys were disgusted with the rape defenders

that was a very welcome surprise

what gets me is female soldiers showering. two mps take video and distribute to rest of guys

our guys come onto thread mouthing off worthless without pictures

i mean, ... i need a shower after being on same thread as these asses.

[Nikki Stone1]

48. Political opinion has nothing to do with misogyny

It's just there.

[seabeyond]

53. yes. why i dont like to pretend it is only rw. it is not. nt

[Berry Cool]

60. Yesterday on a thread about a researcher's discoveries in breast cancer treatment

a post appeared in which it was stated that any guy who has figured out how to make his living by looking at boobs was worth listening to.

My reply was a brief discourse on the "sexiness" of breast cancer treatment. You know, the blood, the scalpel, the radiation, etc.

Certain people say these things and get pissed off when you don't like it because, after all, they're just making a joke.

[Nikki Stone1]

64. Well the next thread about prostate cancer, we can say "No biggie. It was a little dick anyway."

If enough women did this stuff, the guys who did this would still try to one-up (that's what they do) but it would be a great way to let them know that A LOT of us think they're full of crap.

[seabeyond]

65. ya... i have to think they say the stupid for guys. to prove to guys what guys they are

cause they are really not saying this stupid stupid shit for girls.... which brings me too

why the hell does a guy have to put so much effort into provin to other guys they are really a..... guy.

stupid.

[ohheckyeah]

68. My pet peeve

is the MILF thing. What's up with that?

[seabeyond]

70. all women are whores.... for male entertainment. have to define all females

in terms of "hitting" her.

and then people wonder why.... we cant take a joke.

may be crude, but crude it is. what is to pretend otherwise

[BlancheSplanchnik]

159. EXACTLY! And it AFFECTS our LIVES. It's not just jerks on the netz

OUR income, OUR careers, OUR maturation, OUR opportunities, OUR health, OUR lifespan, OUR safety, OUR pensions, OUR entire life experience.

I've had too many experiences to count, fitting into all categories I just mentioned.

It is MUCH MORE than just, "ignore the immature little pricks, it's just the intertubez"...

[niyad]

94. I must remember to tell my friend betty about that comment--oh wait, I can't--she DIED of breast

cancer.

[Odin2005]

88. OMG. that is DISGUSTING!

:puke:

[redqueen]

207. Yes, the 'harmless' jokes.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems to me that the idea that women's bodies are for entertainment, no matter what the setting/context (not just those jokes, but all the ubiquitous forms of objectification), just feed into the mindset that causes so many rapes.

The worst part of it all is how many victims blame themeselves for being raped. So they never bother to report it, and hide it from even friends and family, because of the shame.

[artfan]

14. uppity women

unite!!

Personal attacks occur all the time on the internet. Gender,weight,personal appearance,etc are used as weapons whenever people can not make their point.

[AsahinaKimi]

16. I have that problem in Chat....

I go to this Canadian Chat room, mostly because a lot of the American ones, are just filled with people who want to start fights because they are so bored. In any case, its curious as that our chat room is also a gateway to many students from inside mainland China, but also there are many other people who come there from places like Zimbabwe, Iran, Pakistan, India, Romania and other countries.

Some of the guys from the other countries become greatly irritated when a female in the chat room talks about politics
or world events. They boldly jump on top of those discussing things, as if females have no right to talk about such matters. We should be discussing cooking or child rearing.. meh!

When I tell them I am from the USA.. they will want me to help them with their English, but will coldly attack me for discussing anything that in their mind, women should not talk about. They tend to think American women are all "bitches"
for speaking their minds...and often tell me to shut the hell up. But, in this chat room, there is no moderator and so nothing can be done against any one person, other then to personally mute them.

I have many friends there, but just as many who don't care for the "mouthy American bitch" who talks about subjects "that only men should talk about". Its very educational and unsettling at the same time.

[Nikki Stone1]

23. Kinda makes me want to "democratize" these folks. :)

;)

[AsahinaKimi]

34. It is very interesting talking to the

Mainland Chinese students.. the girls are lovely, but the guys can tend to be mean.. they don't think the women should take part in anything that has to do with politics or world events. But they are the ones who want me to teach them English also..so they tend to try to be careful, thinking if they insult me, they will not have that opportunity to learn anything. There is also sometimes a bit of Nationalistic commentary too.. in the sense some outwardly will ask me if I am Japanese, and then go on to tell me they hate all Japanese... (I am Japanese and Korean, born in the USA). When I tell them, they are so confused..and one told me He could not believe and was shocked to learn that Asians lived in the USA. He assumed that the USA was made up of Caucasians and Blacks.

[Nikki Stone1]

41. Nice to know that ignorance is world wide

That's why it's important to travel.

Do me a favor, though. Don't teach them English. If they disrespect you as a woman, teaching them will not change that and you will get used by men who think nothing of you. Just say you don't know how to teach very well.

[seabeyond]

43. no. tell em, fuck you. dont want me talking politics, i dont want you talkin english, lol. nt

[Nikki Stone1]

45. Or teach them to say, "Yes, officer. I have a contraband in my car."

:)

[seabeyond]

47. roflmao.... bah hahahah. ya ya. do it. that is good. lol. nt

[Odin2005]

89. LOL!!!

:rofl:

[CrispyQ]

119. ...

:applause:

[BlancheSplanchnik]

195. Haaaa!!!

oh, why not get them pissin off the officer too?
"Fuck you ocifer! I'll put a cap in your ass!"

:rofl:

[AsahinaKimi]

54. One of members of that chat room calls

The Mainland Chinese students very chauvinistic. They all proudly contend that China is the best country in the world, that their food is the best, that their way of life is the best, they have the best tea... but if you ask them if they have ever visited any other country, 99.9% of them have never left the country and have never tried. One girl told me she absolutely hated Thai food, but admitted she had never eaten it in her life. I asked her what she based that opinion on, and she happily told her her best friend tried it and didn't care for it.

Some of the guys are very shy, and mostly because they feel their language skills are not up to par .. however, though I have never tutored them, I simply tell them if they hang around in the chat room long enough they will pick up enough English. I always found it funny that they would come to a Canada chat room and the first they would ask is

"Who is Chinese? Who is Foreigner?". I have to remind them that they are visiting a Canada chat room, and so it is they who are the Foreigner. They often come to seek out others of their country but never ask who is Canadian. I enjoy their company on the whole though, because many of them are curious about the West... and when they find out there are Canadians or Americans in the room they are most eager for answers to their questions.

They also love to boast about Chinese culture, naturally and one can learn a lot about it.. I have even picked up a few words of Mandarin. I thought it odd though that many of them failed to recognize Cantonese, a Chinese dialect, as a part of the Chinese language.


Also they alway ask me if I have been to China..or if I plan to. If on the other hand I ask if they would like to visit the USA, most will tell me they prefer to stay in China where it is safe. Some are curious and want to visit other countries, but since they truly believe China is the best place, they feel, "why go anywhere else??"

I have showed them photos of Tahiti..and they think its beautiful, but say that there are prettier places in China.

[Nikki Stone1]

66. Every nation tries to up the chauvinism. It's like loving your losing hometown team

or winning, if they are. We all think that what we know is the best. It's because it's what we know.

[arikara]

161. Interesting. Have they called you a "ghost"?

thats a big insult from them. My daughter used to date a Chinese boy who was born here but his parents never made any attempt to assimilate Canadian culture. They hated white people, were totally vicious to my daughter and eventually drove them apart. The boy is now married to a Chinese girl but they are not having kids, I'm sure its his form of revenge to his parents because they wanted only pure blood Chinese grandchildren. Now of course all Chinese immigrants aren't like that, the daughter of one of my friends married a Chinese boy and there was no intercultural issues at all.

[AsahinaKimi]

188. have not been called that yet...

But there are still a few fighting their grandfathers war still..with rather nasty comments about my Japanese Heritage. Thought its funny, one girl said, since I am partly Korean, she said she would like part of me...overall most of them are very, very nice. There are only a few, that still retain a lot of hate. Some are even shocked over me being mixed.. and I have been called "Half breed"..which is strange. I simply tell them I was born, not bread... because I am not a race horse.

[alphafemale]

98. One of my earliest jobs was working in a chinese restaurant.

The owner hated Japanese people. But she had been in China during WWII so that was "almost" understandable. Anytime a Japanese person would come into the restaurant she would go into a mini tirade. She was maybe 4 foot plus a few ounces but she could be intimidating when she wanted to be. And then she would finish it with something like "but I'm sure you're a fine person."

Nobody ever left though, that I witnessed.

[Odin2005]

32. Ugh, thanks for reminding me why I have no "respect" for baclward cultural beliefs.

[Mari333]

28. lots of misogyny on here

they will tell you its their nature. racism is learned behaviour, hatred of women is 'nature'.

[seabeyond]

36. hatred of women is 'nature'.... which may be why i feel this is a relatively new

phenomenon. that evo psycho babble has become the new fad for men, so they know how to be men.... i guess somewhere along the way, they forgot what it was all about, now they have a phony new science to tell them how cavemen = todays man.

[ThomCat]

37. I am so sick of pseudo-natural arguments

trying to explain that it is only natural to be sexist. Fuck that. If they can't treat people like people, instead of like stereotypes and gender roles then they have serious problems.

Unfortunately, those are serious problems that they insist on inflicting upon everyone around them. :(

[Odin2005]

42. It's a perfect example of the naturalistic fallacy.

"X is natural and thus X is good."

[ThomCat]

51. It would be an example of the naturalist fallacy

if it was really natural. But it isn't. The vast bulk of what these sexist assholes always claim is "natural" is always socially and culturally programmed. Very little besides childbirth itself if really a natural distinction.

[seabeyond]

55. right on. have you heard of ardi (i believe). the new one they found so much earlier than the

others.

females same height as males. not sharp teeth, so looking like not hunters. totally knocks all the caveman crap to .... well hell, crap.

there is a program on it sunday night on discovery

[ThomCat]

56. Yes. It will be interesting to see how this reforms the

myths that have grown up about our anthropological history, and the supposed natural strict gender divisions.

[seabeyond]

57. my hubby didnt understand why i was so mad. i told him about this new fad theory on man

he couldnt believe it. thought it a huge joke. now he has a masters, is educated, but also a texas repug male and could not believe that any male would be promoting that garbage. thought it truly was a joke.

[Berry Cool]

61. Ah, nothing like a man trying to use evo psych to explain why men can't be sexually faithful

(the biological urge to spread the seed around, doncha know) and why it's only "natural" for them to leave their wives in their 40s, find a new sweet young thang, marry her and have a new set of babies with her. Yeah, lots of fun...

[Odin2005]

67. Sweriously, I don't get the "guys are supposed to spread their seed" BS

I'm a guy and I'm looking for a soul-mate I will spend the rest of my life with.

[seabeyond]

71. that is the really stupid in it. it is an illusion perpetuated as a truth to such an extent and

in so many different talking point comments, ball and chain, roped into, ect... when reality is, most of both genders want connection.

and then we are suppose to buy into a nonreality. makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever

[Kalyke]

224. Most men are, but few are willing to accept their evoutions and own up to it.

Humans are animals, but we thrive from our thought processes, emotions and needs: not from some instinct that, from all the reports on Ardi, have been evolved away for several millions of years.

[JoeyT]

101. Yay evo psych!

Next time someone speaks that nonsense, you might want to remind them they have a *far* stronger biological imperative to hide in a cave eating nothing but Twinkies dipped in lard all day while braining anyone that comes past with a rock. (Food, shelter, and protecting those two, along with the way taste buds evolved and why we think fat and sugar taste good.) If we're capable of ignoring those imperatives, we can ignore the other ones too.

[treestar]

164. They also never realize

That their seed would not necessarily be the one that takes - if all the men are doing that, the women must be doing it to - how can all men sleep with a string of women unless a lot of women are also doing it with a lot of men. Their "seed" has plenty of competition and would result in no more children than if they just stayed with their wife who they thought was faithful - much better chance of having descendants.

Then if any 40 y/o man can get a 20 y/o woman and does, that leaves a lot of 40 women and 20 men with not much to do - do they think they won't even get together? Like all those 20 y/o men would really prefer no sex to sex with a 40 y/o woman? That goes against the other theme that men think of nothing but sex.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[seabeyond]

165. at the time of a female cycle, she will be taking every young buck she can find

without consideration to any of them at all, her only intent to impregnate.

but oh no

as the theory goes

they female quietly, submissively sits back demurely.... as men would like to dream. animal or not.... cant have it both ways

[BlancheSplanchnik]

196. they confuse natural for normative

they don't know the difference between nature/biology and norms/society.

[CrispyQ]

123. It's our competitive culture.

Comparison in our culture always results in "X is better than Y", not simply "X is different than Y." I love Thom Hartmann's book, "The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight" where he discusses competitive cultures versus complementary cultures. Ours is a very competitive culture, where things are rated in terms of being better than or superior to. Other things are not appreciated, & many times feared, because they are different.

Men & women are complimentary & shouldn't be competitive - not socially or culturally, at least. I don't mind a good competition of wits, physical attributes, or whatever, between men & women, but it shouldn't be how we treat each other on a daily basis.

Men are differ nt than women, not better than women. The converse is equally true.

[seabeyond]

124. and this is just the point of the whole thing. surely we grow out of the competitiveness as we

grow up. become adults. but i guess not.

really want competitive, i could approach this from another angle and kick a guys ass (not literally) but i refuse cause it builds the discourse, not solves it. and the discourse hurts us all.

you are so fuckin right on

[BuelahWitch]

128. Truthfully I think many people have the same emotional IQ as they had in junior high

And I'm talking about people of both sexes.

[seabeyond]

133. i think you are right. but when in our society did we decide adulthood wasnt good

we didnt want it. we wanted to stay juvenile. cause i gotta say, and say to kids often.... i LIKE being an adult. sheeeit, as a teen i was more adult than not

[BuelahWitch]

190. It's hard to say

I remember my mother told me that when she was young (in the '40s), the girls couldn't wait to be grownups. I think we've gone steadily downhill since the early/mid sixties.

[omega minimo]

136. The converse is true. Except there is no history and culture of women being superior to men.

:think:

[katkat]

145. Re: no history and culture of women being superior to men

Let's hear it for sexual dimorphism in various raptors. And queen bees.

I believe some Native American tribes were matriarchal.

[omega minimo]

149. Your correction is correct, but off target

I could have been more clear about specifying the comparison to a traditional human culture of male dominance the world has known for the past 4,000 years or so.

Some people have trouble understanding it existed legally -- and to some extent still does -- up until very recent decades.

Pointing out there were matriarchal cultures in the past and in other nations might REALLY shock them.

[Hello_Kitty]

83. Soon they will report that a "scientific study" found that internet trolling is "innate".

"Men have an inborn need to anonymously threaten women online blah blah biological imperative blah reproductive strategy blah...."

[Odin2005]

90. Yep, and "Rape is an evolutionary adaptation!!!"

I actually read that somewhere! :puke:

[ThomCat]

108. That one comes around pretty regularly.

:grr:

[donco6]

52. It can be really bad. Worse on regular news comment boards

I don't know what's up with it. Maybe because people can get away with it?

[Hello_Kitty]

77. Oh yes. I used to blog on my local newspaper's site

The comments to me got so nasty, even when I was blogging on the most mundane and innocuous subjects, that I quit and joined another blog site.

[bertman]

72. The deal is: there are a lot of dickheads in the world.

[Common Sense Party]

73. Plenty of snark and vitriol directed at Sarah Palin--about her looks, her dress,

her mannerisms, her progeny, her parenting skills. No matter how much I may disagree with her, the comments about the Palins from fellow DUers were (and are) absolutely disgusting, sexist, and very similar to what you go through as a female blogger. Anyone who denies the sexism is not in touch with reality.

[Hello_Kitty]

78. True that. eom

[Sebastian Doyle]

81. How the Hell is is "sexist" to say Palin was a shitty parent?

Todd was probably also a shitty parent, but he wasn't running for Vice President under a 72 year old 4 time cancer patient, so he wasn't relevant. Moosealini was. Nothing sexist about that.

[Common Sense Party]

82. If that were all that was said, it would have been fine.

That was not all that was said. Google some of the old threads if your memory fails you.

[BlooInBloo]

91. Here's some more: she's a blithering idiot.

You're welcome.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

92. Sarah Palin used her looks and her dress to appeal to voters...

I view those as fair game.

Mocking her mannerisms is no different than Dana Carvey imitating Bush Sr., or Chevy Chase imitating a clumsy Gerald Ford.

I agree re her progeny -- they should be off limits. Some of the comments were despicable.

Her parenting skills? Fair game also, particularly when it comes to the issues of birth control, choice, etc.

[lumberjack_jeff]

80. I've been the target of what you dish out here.

If that style ("poor widdle MRA asshole, lolz!!11") is carried outside this echo chamber, I find the reaction you get unsurprising.

[Hello_Kitty]

85. Have I threatened to rape or assault you?

Well? :shrug:

And just so you know, my commentary on the blog is nothing like how I post here. I write straightforward articles about local and national issues, with a bit of snark and sarcasm, but no profanity and not much lolspeak.

[lumberjack_jeff]

86. Fair enough.

I can understand why a person might use different styles in different venues.

I also know enough about the kind of stupid that gets posted to places like youtube to know that it's widespread and usually off the wall and undeserved.

Actually, I'm sorry I said that. It was unfair.

[niyad]

93. the responses here have all been pretty accurate. it amuses me sometimes on other

boards, with a different username, to read really obnoxious stuff, and not have the person writing have any clue (despite the name) that there is a female on the other end of the communication.

I am old enough to have heard it all, in its most virulent forms, in many venues. my standard response was, "in order for me to be upset by what you are saying, two things would have to be true: 1) I would have to regard the words you are using as an insult. 2) I would actually have to respect your opinion. trust me, neither of thsoe situations obtains."

[Cid_B]

95. The more defining your characteristics the more insults are available...

Most people have them but the degrees of severity can vary.

I remember the first time I was called a warmonger. Not that I gave a crap, made me smile actually. Shrug it and let it go.

[Hello_Kitty]

96. Yeah, I post on the blog under my own name.

My photo and occupation are readily available to anyone who searches online. Amanda Marcotte, who is a prominent feminist and liberal blogger at Pandagon sometimes replaces ugly trolling with footage of fluffy bunnies. Maybe I should follow her example.

[omega minimo]

102. You're asking DU?

:wow:

























:rofl:

[seabeyond]

103. wink....

you funny

[omega minimo]

104. nod

you fun ier

[Triana]

109. males act the same on the internet as they do IRL. It IS "an attempt to silence and intimidate"..

..only on the internet they're more bold about it because you can't see and hear them and it's easier to NOT be caught in legal tangles (NOTE I said "easier" - NOT impossible) because of it. They feel safer being aggressive and intimidating toward females online than IRL.

What you're experiencing is NOT just "you" - it happens to most female bloggers. (how would I know THAT...) - I won't say - except to say I'm IN that industry and males are the same online as they are IRL - except online they're BOLDER about their aggressiveness and attempts at intimidation - AND SEXISM than In Real Life - because it's easier to get away with it online.

[Chemisse]

113. Some men like to control their women

And a woman with her own opinions - completely contrary to their own - is a threat, an affront to their manhood.

Men like that disgust me.

[omega minimo]

132. "their" women?

I get your point. Wonder where they get the notion that how they treat "their" women should apply to everyone. Maybe back when women were chattel, the property of men and had no rights.

[Chemisse]

189. I used that term (their women) intentionally

That is how they think. And if they believe women are inferior, as evidenced by how they treat their own wives, etc, then it follows a sick logic that they would treat all women with disdain.

[omega minimo]

191. why are you arguing?

I'm not challenging you, I picked up on your comment and continued with what you have now explained.....................

[aikoaiko]

118. "going for the jugular" via content or otherwise.

In the war of ideas, killing your enemy is often the goal.

It works best if it is an attack on content, but it also works if you attack peripherial issues (like the gender of the writer).

[bridgit]

120. ^

:kick:

[asdjrocky]

121. Just look at how the attack President Obama.

He's not even any where Liberal, in fact he's shown himself to be a total middle of the road moderate, and yet they call him a socialist.

All you have to do is wear the Democratic teams jersey and that's all they need.

[Stephanie]

127. I remember when Limbaugh made rude remarks about Hillary on Letterman

And Letterman said, "And you can say that, of course, because you're such a fine physical speciman yourself."

[omega minimo]

131. He called him on the standard male bluff

that no matter what a male looks like, he can make derogatory remarks about women and their looks.

Some people here still don't understand how that pattern is embedded in the derogatory language/slurs, encoded power structure -- they pretend it is "just like calling a man a _____." BS.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

134. I notice the ugliness in many media

Women are not human beings, individuals to be known and taken as a whole. Just holes.

Years ago, I went to Womyn's music fests often. I was always struck by the variety of physical individuality I saw... and my initial "culture shock" always served to highlight how limited a vision we are presented in what visual media presents to us as what women are.

It is easy to CRUSH beings who are not human like you are. That is why it is so important that the dehumanization, the homogenization of women, of how we are percieved, be seen and changed.

Have a look at You-Tube... practically any woman, vid featuring a woman doing music, comedy, whatever is subject to the avalanche of vulgar comments sexualizing and/or hating her .... Gayness is also used as a silencer against any male some shithead wants to act out their hate on.

Just last night, up late with hunny... one of the late late talk shows came on, and the drunk-high frat boy "humorous" use of women as ugly jokes (kind of like using a Kleenex to wank in, then crush and throw in the garbage....) was incredibly scummy. My hun pretty much most of the time "gets it" when I'm analyzing yet another insult to women broadcasted out there on the tube, which is rare for men. We both just looked at each other... slack jawed at the blatant contempt. He asked what we were waiting for? Change the damn channel!

Even Letterman regularly features Dave in mutual discussion with intelligent, interesting men--actors, comedians, musicians.... But rarely are female guests of the same sort-- most female guests are vapid eye-candy; Dave leeringly makes that clear. And many jokes are subtly demeaning of women.... Brittany, Lindsay Lohan, and some other vapid starlets are the de-facto, stigmatized butt of a million jokes. Believe me, because I love his humor, goofyness, intelligence and ethical politics, I have seriously conflicting emotions about his show.

What is the ultimate, worst result of all this patriarchal control of the cultural/economic upper hand?? Violence against women is a worldwide epidemic.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6749940&mesg_id=6752098

[seabeyond]

135. the real perverse. this is all to make men, feel like men. what a fuckin insult to men

and they are clueless.

it is like the female that behaves stupid, cause it is what is expected of her to be "liked" by male. clueless how people look at her rollin eyes in her own insecurity

men that need to put down a woman, demean her, subjugate, dehumanize are the ones that appear weak and void, not the women they are trying ot degrade.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

138. it IS perverse...

and the media messages are schizoid.....

heroic male characters are protective of women, glamorous bad guys are consumers of women, violence against women is bad, violence against women is sexy, women are tough, women are ineffective,

women (white women particularly) are always always always characters defined first and above all by their erotic appeal. Any other permutation hardly even exists.

We are a homogenized commodity.

[seabeyond]

194. i can remember the conditioning when i was young. it is a totally different conditioning

today for our girls and young woman, that they buy into. they cant sell what they sold to our generation (60's).

the obtuseness how this effect both genders i hope in time will become clear. until then, it continues.

[katkat]

141. yup

I don't have the moral fiber to read the many other replies to your post, but I will just say there are plenty of cowardly Neanderthals out there.

The best method, I have found, is to just not pass on their comments. After awhile they will get tired of exerting the effort to type and not seeing their comments and getting no reaction from you and go away. Unfortunately there is an endless supply of lower life forms.

I know it is a problem dealing with this. I would just delete them as soon as you see it's a comment like that, and take some comfort in the fact that you're upsetting them enough for them to do this stuff. Or you might swap moderation with another blogger, that way it might be less upsetting.

Hang in there. You're 100,000 times the person those creeps are. Think of what pitiful lives they have.

[cleverusername]

146. Femisinist blogger who takes no sh*t

This feminist blogger knows how to smack down trolls. Read and be amazed!

http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/

[YoungAndOutraged]

210. Amazed indeed.

That woman wants to live in a world free of families and even reproduction. She seems more interested in bringing down men than lifting up women. I have no time for that kind of "equality."

[question everything]

148. Sexism among liberal is news?

Just looking at DU should give you an indication:

Last year comments about Hillary were as sexist as they did. Her makeup, her ankles, her "cackle" her calves her pantsuits - from Letterman, of course.

Earlier comments about Polanski, and about Letterman where many did not find anything wrong with them and where the U brigade was in force.

Since the three owners of this place are men, what would you expect?

This is why many women do not reveal their gender, as long as they can. So they don't get comments about "that time of the month" or about getting their knickers in a knot.

[omega minimo]

153. Boxer and the Army Corps general

[lunatica]

154. Lot's of men hate women and the internet gives them what they believe are cojones

Uppity women are their worst nightmare. Feel sorry for them if you must feel anything. It's all about their perceived power being taken aware by women who are empowering themselves. Same with anyone different than themselves. They're in survival mode as they realize they're impotent and dying out.

[Nikki Stone1]

166. +1

:thumbsup:

[H2O Man]

155. It simply means

that you are doing well. Always remember what Malcolm X said about this: "I can tell how well I'm doing, based upon how uncomfortable I make them." Keep up the good work.

[DailyGrind51]

162. Anonymous rudeness is the inferior person's impersonation of power.

[liberalhistorian]

167. We don't need no uppity womensfolk

'round here. Now shut up, learn your place and go fix your man a sammich, like a good little REAL woman would do! :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[RedCloud]

171. Silver-backs in the mist.

They crush all they presume they can dominate. Women are a target as are minorities and liberals. Put more than one of those characteristics together and the silver-backs go absolutely ape shit.

In my line of work, I have several female coworkers and I am sort of their supervisor and mentor. I do worry about all my part time people and hope they all get FT somewhere soon. They seem to say they like having me as their supervisor, more than taking a chance FT elsewhere and getting a jerk for a boss. While this should gladden me, it only saddens me, to think we live in such a world where support of your coworkers is somewhat rare. And those folks would sacrifice their earnings in order to find it.

[Guilded Lilly]

174. Fear...Insecurity...Ignorance?

Fear, methinks.
It's the fear that enables all the rest of the dumb as dirt behavior.

They just do not matter.

Peace,
Lilly

[Gnosticism]

175. Goes both ways

Just try to imagine for a moment the sheer amount of vitriol Ann Coulter must recieve on a daily basis.

I know, I know, she actually deserves it lol...but thats really not the point.

I'm sure it works in both ways. Thats the nature of the political beast. Please dont even try to pretend that "liberals" and those on the left arent as capable of outright hate and vitriol against thier partisan counterparts. A few quick glances at some of the threads in this very website should suffice to prove that one out.

That all said though, I also believe that had you been a overly ambitious, semi-corrupt and phony but halfway decent looking female with a failed and brief background in politics, and laughably inane conservative views, you not only would have an adoring, worshipping RW base but you'd probably also be picked for a VP slot in a republican campaign and could make a bazillion dollars writing a self-serving book or two.

[rainlillie]

177. There are plenty of reasons and ways to go after Ann, her gender isn't on of them..

[seabeyond]

181. plenty of reason to go after her, gender not being one, but gender often being the ONE gone after

same with palin.

which is exactly the point.

not party issue, a gender issue.

[omega minimo]

215. except that post was going after the women

AND the party. :thumbsdown:

[omega minimo]

214. Yeah but she's a man

:sarcasm:



:wtf: are you playing at?

[rainlillie]

176. As a female blogger, I understand where you're coming from..

I received a lot of nasty, hateful e-mail and a couple of death threats. One threat had my hubby really concerned. We contacted the blog owner and the post was removed and the guy who threatened my life was kicked off the site.

[MrScorpio]

178. Put the motherfuckers down

Don't take any shit from any of them

[paulkienitz]

182. as a male I can say this...

the most abuse I ever got online for a political position was for supporting feminism.

[seabeyond]

183. wow. and there you go. wow. also interesting. hm. i have seen it here. a man speaks out

against the sexism and other men are on him, saying only doing it to hit on women or neutered.

what has me wondering though, is the handful of men that insist ALL men, and if a man says he doesn't he is lying. i dont give a specific cause it is on a number of things. cheating, porn, strip clubs and list goes on. all men do it. all men inept. all men ....

and i have to wonder about men that read that, dont prescribe to it, and dont say anything

are they bothered, or do they simply ignore

cause if a woman told me we all nag, or all use sexuality to get what we want or all did whatever.... i would be fightin those words.

[Teaser]

216. huh?

"what has me wondering though, is the handful of men that insist ALL men, and if a man says he doesn't he is lying. i dont give a specific cause it is on a number of things. cheating, porn, strip clubs and list goes on. all men do it. all men inept. all men ...."

are you asking why a lot of men don't deny that "all men like porn", "all men go to strip clubs", etc?


Well, I don't think those statements are true, but I don't consider them bad things either. I do, on occasion, like porn. I have been to strip clubs (usually with my wife). So the statement that all men are into those things, while statistically incorrect, is not likely to offend me and will not provoke an outburst.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

218. Strip Clubs

I really did not want to comment on this thread, but I wanted to ask you why you would take your wife to a strip club? I would think that would be very disrespecftul to your woman? I don't think my ex girlfriend would ever ask me (nor would I go) to go to a male strip club with her and her friends.

[Kalyke]

225. That one floors me, too.

If I want to look at an attractive naked woman, I have a mirror.

:)

[Teaser]

233. maybe my wife likes looking at large numbers of attractive, naked women.

.

[Teaser]

232. Perhaps just a bit sexist of you to assume that *I took her*.

She took me. I'd never been to one before.

As for why she likes them, you'd have to ask her.

[lumberjack_jeff]

201. My experience has been the opposite.

... but the abuse I get for not supporting modern feminism comes equally from men and women.

[pitohui]

186. what tomcat said...do you HAVE to allow comments?

i guess if you're blogging for pay/employer it's different because having comments enabled does encourage "hits"

i do not allow anyone to post comments on my blog, if they don't agree with me, fuck em, let em get off their ass and start their own blog

there's a LOT of woman hating out there and to pretend that it went away in 1982 is to ignore reality, it's worse than ever (perhaps because jobs and white male superiority is worse off than ever and somebody gotta pay and a female who looks weak because she isn't pretty, she's older, she's poor, she fucks people for money, for what the fuck ANY reason they think her weak -- she's a cheap target)

[omega minimo]

192. Male Privilege that doesn't even acknowledge the existence of Male Privilege.

[ThomCat]

211. The first privilage of male privilage is

the ability to be ignorant of their/our own privilege. Or, if a man is aware of male privilege, the ability to deny that privilege and swear it doesn't really exist. x(

That way, sexist men can swear that there is a level playing field, or that women are someone dominating men and disadvantaging men.

[omega minimo]

213. There it is.

Well put.

And that way, sexist men can swear that women are "somehow dominating men and disadvantaging men" by even bringing that up. :crazy:

[omega minimo]

193. .

[Darth_Kitten]

208. I give it right back to the f#ckers...........

:)

They don't expect it, and HATE it. :)

[Missy Vixen]

217. I am a female blogger as well

My blog gets over 30,000 hits a month. I write about politics and football. I've gotten some nastygrams. My comments are moderated as well; mostly, I laugh them off. After all, I'm only getting nastiness from people who disagree with me, and aren't articulate enough to actually make an argument.

The ugliest experience I've ever had on the Internet was writing for another blog focusing on the Seahawks. To say the comments were horrifying was an understatement, and they were ALL from men. The guys who ran the blog were the same way. They hide it well. I'd like to think that they are the exception, but I write under a pseudonym because I value my safety. That may sound a bit extreme, but there have been reports previously about female bloggers especially being subject to threats and threatening behavior.

[redqueen]

219. Horrifying is an understatement?

I stay away from sports forums due to the even more ubiquitous than usual misogyny, but horrifying? And the guys who ran the blog were the same? I'm curious as to what kind of stuff you're talking about... I wonder if I'd be surprised by any of it.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

220. The web is a tough place

I don't think you should be scared; it really is just tough talk from anonymous idiots. What I have found on the web in mixed boards are that if you can give thoughtful and consistent responses, the conservative posters will give you respect.

The days of men being gentleman are at a pause. Your male posters would rather not debate you on the issues and instead hit you where they perceive it will hurt more, which are you looks and gender. It is not fair, but it is the way many men act. I can see how this would really bother you, because it totally dismisses your intellect and reduces you to just an object to look at. The only way to counteract this is to be really insightful and witty. Other than telling you to grow a stiff upper lip, I don't see it getting any easier for you.

[gkhouston]

221. It won't get any easier, that's for damn sure. It was like this twenty years ago. n/t

[seabeyond]

226. The days of men being gentleman are at a pause.

i like that.

good post.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

228. Well

I am usually one of the first people to defend "the guys", but I don't like mean people. It seems as if the OP is dealing with jerks with no manners. That ain't cool in my book.

[seabeyond]

229. i know

defend "the guys"

but as you said, for this post you went beyond that. so appreciate. that is all. i expect no more, lol.