Swine Flu vacination

[Catherine Vincent]

I'm chatting with some paranoid folks on another board that says this vac will become mandatory. Is this true?

[Texasgal]

1. what exactly are you worried about?

Curious.

[merwin]

3. Maybe some people are scared of Gillian-Barre syndrome.

Or that this vaccine hasn't really been tested thoroughly enough and has been rushed to market.

I'll still be getting it along with my family. We're pretty sure that my son and I have already gotten it, but my wife is a couple months pregnant, and I really don't want to risk her getting sick.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. It has been tested

and it is being done the same way as the annual vax... which is VERY SAFE.

[truedelphi]

16. Those of us who had a bad reaction to any previous vaccines, know that for whatever reason

Vaccination may not be a good idea for themselves.

Those of us who are critical, we also know that each year, some people get the regular old flu vaccine and we watch them be sick for three weeks or even longer. Yet these friends continue to get the shots, and we have to say to ourselves, "Why?"

And the fact that this flu shot supposedly has been tested, and supposedly is safe, that was what we were told way back in 1976. And in the end, the vaccine manufacturer didn't have enough of the tested vaccine to put out there, so they just used some other variety of the shot.

[hedgehog]

25. Who told you it was safe back then, and why you needed it,

and who is telling you it's safe now, and why you need it?

The guy on NBC News the other Night stated that to this day, no one knows what was different about the vaccine in 1976. Of course, he also said that the CDC urged Gerald Ford to get everyone vaccinated. My understanding is that the CDC mentioned the possibility of an outbreak on an Army base, and noted that the situation needed watching. The decision to vaccinate everyone came out of a White House trying to gain poll numbers after pardoning Nixon.

[truedelphi]

34. I believe it was the insert that was offered to peopelewho were

Vaccinated. I would have to check - I have the info on my hard disk somewhere, as I saw it about two weeks back.

Anyway it really makes my day knowing I lost some mobility in my left arm, and experienced a burning pain there, for at least six months after the shots. And all for the sake of the WH poll numbers. Yeah for Gerald Ford! And when I recounted my reactions to the shot, my doctors just told me that I was crazy.

Only decades later did I realize that had probably had Guillaun Barre. (My copy of the "Congressional Hearings on Neurotoxins in the Workplace," circa 1986, has testimony about how women especially are at risk when they have unexpected side effects to any products - doctors are just so eager to tell the little ladies that they are nuts!)

[hedgehog]

26. There are some people who shouldn't get vaccinated, and

there are those (mainly the elderly) for whom vaccination isn't very effective. Al the more reason for those of us who can get vaccinated to get vaccinated to protect them by stopping the spread of the virus.

[stray cat]

32. I would think promoting herd immunity to save others would be progressive

but clearly progressives don't care about their neighbor any more than conservatives

[truedelphi]

35. There have already been Medical Journal articles to the effect that if

You were born before 1957, you have a good deal of immunity to the flu varieties out there.

And the ones you don't have, probably are not covered by any of the current vaccines.

The elderly are probably at just as great a risk for suffering the ordeal of a vaccine then if they just took their chances.

[uppityperson]

40. If you were born before 57, you may be immune to H1N1 flu, NOT seasonal flu which

mutates al the time. Just because you have had influenza in the past, even several times, does not mean you are immune to another form. Rather like just because you have had a cold does not mean you are immune to all colds forever.

[truedelphi]

49. Ah, yes, I left the word "swine" out of my remark.

I should have said "Swine flu."

I do believe that many flus repeat themselves years later- they may re-occur or may not.

But it was "swine flu" I was referring to.

[uppityperson]

71. It is H1N1 influenza, not "swine flu". Using correct terms can help dispell misunderstandings

Edited to add that influenza, like the common cold, mutates easily. That is why you can get influenza several times, or a cold several times. They mutate easily and then are spread around again.

Best thing to do to stay healthy is stay away from where people are, as well as wash your hands and don't touch your eyes or nose. Reason there are outbreaks during cold times of yr is because that is when people are hanging out together, passing stuff back and forth.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Here is some info for you as an fyi

the annual vaccine is 70% effective... so that means it has a 30% failure rate.

The annual vaccine takes from 7-10 days to offer full immunity to the virus that was thought to be the one for that year. So if you were already in the process of developing the flu, in incubation, when you got the shot... guess what? YOU WILL get sick and it has nothing to do with the vaccine. You were going to get it either way.

If you have had a bad reaction you need to talk to your health care provider. There are some people who should not get it for reasons ranging from allergy to eggs, as well as other factors.

Overall, FOR MOST of the population they are effective and SAFE.

Finally, you could die from a tylenol... yes, you read right.

It is a cost benefit analysis. For me, my cost is 25 bucks, and perhaps avoid death from pneumonia or a bad asthma attack... vs not getting it and risking THAT.

So if you think it is not something you want to get, by all means, don't... but MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION NOT ONE BASED ON FEAR.

[SidDithers]

55. Stop making sense...

good post. :hi:

Sid

[truedelphi]

57. Here is some FYI for YOU.

When you go and get a flu shot from any reputable public health clinic, they hand out a pamphlet.

Among the other pieces of information in that pamplet is the disclaimer that NO ONE who has had an adverse reaction to a flu shot in the past should have one. Nor should one have a flu shot if one has allergies to egg protein.

How difficult is that to understand?

Not everyone can eat peanuts, so would you try and convince everyone to eat them? Even if it may cause a great deal of suffering. Just because you read on the internets that peanuts contain protein and vitamins?

Vaccinations are simply not for everyone. In addition to suffering from GBS in the past, I have a terrible multiple chemical sensititivty to formaldehyde, even minor amounts of it set me off.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

60. FYI for you:

They make specialized vaccine for people with egg allergies. Ask your doctor.

Also: MCS is a made up illness.

[truedelphi]

63. This respondee is currently on ignore. Probably for a good reason. n/t

[uppityperson]

72. I didn't think you reply to someone on ignore. Odd.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

75. Nope.

How curious.

:rofl:

[uppityperson]

41. what symptoms do your friends have after getting the flu shot?

[truedelphi]

62. My friend who is an RN gets the flu (If U read this post, pls read all of it)

Or a terrible three week long cold. Cannot even get out of bed.

Why would it not make more sense to just get the flu, in her case?

My mother in law just insisted that she have a flu shot, some two and a half weeks ago. She is now in critical condition, as she had the flu within 48 hours of the shot. Then it became pneuumonia, and now she may die. But of course, who knows? Did the flu shot cause this, or the fact that she was taken to the doctor's and sat in a waiting room for 45 minutes around sick people?

It is real convenient for the flu vaccine manufacturers that when an already sick person (my MIL has emphysema) gets an illness following the flu, it cannot be ascertained as to the exact cause.

Likewise pregnant women. Seventy percent of all newborns now are jaundiced after their delivery - before the flu shots were available for pregnant women, jaundice was a rare condition.

But hey who knws what causes it? Over the same time period, we have personal care products foisted on pregnant women (Get your benzene, formaldehyde and methylene chlorided Glade and Febreeze and keep your house smelling good there, pregnant lady!) We have almost universal use of cell phones, and those who don't use cell phones are still bombarde4d by EMF's from antennae and cell ph towers.

The Powers that Be have guaranteed us such an awful and polluted environment that it is difficult to say what results from what.

[uppityperson]

69. Sitting in a waiting room 45 min with sick people can make you sick.

Since the influenza vaccine has dead virus in it, you can not get influenza from it. However, being in a waiting room with sick people probably exposed her to a bunch of stuff.

To restate, the influenza vaccine can NOT give you the flu, since there is NO live viruses in it. Also, you cannot get yellowfever from an influenza shot. Or rabies. Or measles. Since none of those live viruses are in the vaccine either.

Rather like you cannot have a peanut allergy attack from eating, say, watermelon that you grew in your garden since that watermelon does not have peanuts in it.

[uppityperson]

70. "before the flu shots were available for pregnant women, jaundice was a rare condition"No. It wasn't

jaundice has been a problem of newborns for ages. Linking jaundice to flu shots is ludicrous.

[truedelphi]

76. Janundice did not reach the proportion that it has these days

Not in the sixties, not in the seventies.

I don't know about the eighties, or early nineties.

But currently the percentage of new borns afflicted with jaundice is 70% !!

My midwife delivered 1100 babies before she delivered mine in 1975. Forty had jaundice.

[PCIntern]

21. Better check some of the estimates

for pregnant women who come down with swine flu. Just sayin'...

I NEVER give medical advice...check with your obstetrician.

[Dorian Gray]

29. I did that

My ob/gyn said that they were told to recommend this for all pregnant women, but he felt that there wasn't enough information out on the vaccine yet and recommended that I wait until my second trimester if I felt that I should get the inoculation. I had been going to a peri-natal specialist. (For full disclosure, I have since miscarried.) The live vaccine was NOT recommended by them for pregnant women, so I would have had to wait until next month, anyhow.

[stray cat]

31. You are more likely to get Gillian Barre from the flu itself -

then the worst vaccine in history

[cwydro]

66. It is Guillain-Barre

not Gillian Barre.

[cwydro]

67. Guillain-Barre,

not Gillian Barre, lol.

[Catherine Vincent]

5. I'm not worried

I want to tell these people to take their meds but that wouldn't be nice. One of them says it will be mandatory and we will all become zombies. :) Don't laugh.

[Morning Dew]

10. At this time there is no indication that the swine flu outbreak is related to a zombie outbreak

http://www.zombiemeter.org/index.php?subaction=view&story_id=117

It is possible that within certain areas where the swine flu outbreak is reported, it is being used to cover up a zombie outbreak. However, there is no strong indication that that is the case at this point. One primary concern is that reporting of swine flu cases will make it harder for us to identify real zombie activity, and thus making the world more vulnerable widespread outbreaks.

[Catherine Vincent]

12. LOL!

Thanks for that link. I will definitely share it with my friends and I'm sure they will hate me for it. :)

[Morning Dew]

14. Don't tell them the article is 5 months old.

When you said zombies, I just had to google to see if anyone was discussing a connection between H1N1 and Zombies.

Sure enough, they are ( or were, anyway ).

I love the internet - it has everything, doesn't it?

[Incitatus]

18. How about the MANDATORY part.

let's say it's 100% safe. I don't give a shit it should not be mandatory.

[armyowalgreens]

22. Public health trumps personal paranoia.

[Incitatus]

33. I can make my own health care decisions, thanks for your concern.

It should, of course, be made available to anyone who wants it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. What part of it is NOT are you purposely missing

I like to live in the real world, and in the real world it is NOT MANDATORY.

That is unless you are planning to enlist anytime soon.

[Incitatus]

45. I udnerstand that it is not.

I am commenting to anyone thinks it should be.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. For medical personnel who have constant contact wth

patients it should be and there are plenty of studies that show why.

For DOD... there are good and valid reasons.

So unless you plan to be an EMT, a nurse or a doctor, or enlist... go on, do whatever you want.

Me, got my vaccine for the yearly flu already and intend to get the H1N1 as soon as it comes out. I have a valid risk\ benefit analysis that tells me I should get it.

[Common Sense Party]

2. Is what true? Is it true you're chatting with paranoid people?

Could be. You would be the one to know.

Some hospitals have made it mandatory for health workers. No one is talking about mandatory vaccinations for everyone.

[Catherine Vincent]

6. Is it true that the vaccine will become mandatory, smartass nt

[jbnow]

20. That seems like an odd question. It isn't mandatory. Is it true

that it might become mandatory?

How does anyone answer that? A magic 8 ball, a ouija board, tarot cards?
Or are you asking if it has been announced that it might become mandatory (from a health official rather than from a paranoid person)? Not that I've heard.

I have read posts on a liberal blog saying it IS mandatory that we all have two shots despite serious side effects and the expense of the shots...and that Obama has stocks in the biotech firm that makes it so he is getting rich from it. Their link was to Free republic. I didn't go there.
It was easy to show it was all untrue (so in case that comes up Obama owned some biotech stock several years ago, sold off in 05. He won't get rich killing us off now)

There are so many rumors going around. I just hope the fear doesn't cause any unnecessary tragedies. It is creepy when a flu kills mostly the young, hope it isn't getting fiercer. I am not pushing for shot, probably won''t get one...simple as I said, hoping no tragedy comes because of the fear

[shraby]

4. There isn't enough vaccine yet to make it mandatory for

everyone. I was just reading about it last night in a Reuters article.

[Catherine Vincent]

7. Thanks nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. No, they don't have enough doses

in fact they may not have enough doses for those who were triaged as priorities.

Kind of hard to make anything mandatory if you don't have enough doses.

Check the CDC for information on that.

[Common Sense Party]

11. Even if they had enough doses, I haven't heard anything about

making it mandatory for the entire population. That's just loony paranoia talk at this point.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Well legally they would have the authority, since the national health emergency

has not been lifted. But only the state of NY has made it mandatory for Health Care Workers, and of course DOD for all personnel and civilian employees (force protection), and some hospitals as condition of employment.

Now even Rush was spreading that canard that this will be mandatory... some of the lovely ones I have heard are as follows.

It will be mandatory

They are going to use it to insert RFID chips... so they can track us.

They are using two versions, one for democrats and one for republicans

And of course the it has not been tested.

I am sure there are more out there.

All I can do at this point is this.

:banghead:

[MissB]

15. It will not be mandatory

Period.

Consider finding something more entertaining than chatting with paranoid folks.

[Catherine Vincent]

17. The forum is all about love

That was just an off topic thread.

[cwydro]

68. I agree with you.

That is not going to happen.

[LeftishBrit]

19. No plans to make it mandatory in any country that I know of.

If fact, there's unlikely to be enough for all who want it.

This is a myth spread mainly by right-wingers who think that all government is evil (one source that I've seen thought that Obama would impose 'marshal law' to force the flu vaccination), and especially now in America probably want to whip up fear of any government-sponsored health care. If the government are not setting up 'death panels' to deny people health care, they are imposing it by force and 'marshal law'!

[WVRICK13]

23. Serious Questions About Safety

My niece is Director of Nursing at a large facility and the doctors advised the medical staff to not get H1N1 vaccination since it has not been tested properly. My mothers doctor, at another facility, advised her not to get it either. It does make me wonder. I am not getting it but I am frequently wiping all door knobs and faucet handles at the office with Lysol wipes and using hand sanitizer like mad. I am also taking 2000mcg of D3 at the advice of a doctor friend.

[PSPS]

24. Actually, there are no serious questions about safety

At least, not outside the paranoid uneducated anti-any-vaccine community.

[WVRICK13]

27. Amazing

You consider separate medical doctors and nursing staff to be uneducated. The same doctor who advised my mother not to take H1N1 gave her the regular shot.

[Maru Kitteh]

50. I consider you to be undereducated and you or your neice of dishonest or at least CONFUSED

confabulation and exaggeration concerning advice from physicians to health professionals concerning the vaccine and any rational reasoning behind it.

What 'doctors?' What kind of 'large facility?' How many 'doctors?' On what grounds exactly? You're suspiciously vague all the way around. The vast majority of physicians understand quite well that the H1N1 vaccine has been thoroughly tested.


Was your mother born before 1957? If so, that explains WHY her physician didn't necessarily think she needed an H1N1 vax based on her individual health status, but still recommended the seasonal influenza vaccine. If you don't understand why, do yourself a favor and go seek information from VALID, LEGITIMATE sources so that you wont have to look foolish when you try to put forth that little tidbit as some sort of evidence against the safety of the vaccine.

[WVRICK13]

51. Self Delete

[WVRICK13]

52. LOL, Having A Nasty Day Are We

I did not advocate that anyone not take the H1N1 shot. I related what I heard from three different medical groups in three different locations. I chose to give some consideration to advice from the medical people I deal with when it comes to understanding medical issues better than I understand them. I only have a PhD in social science research so I do not now, nor will I ever pretend to know medical science.

Are you an MD? If so, I will take your advice into consideration. DO NOT accuse me of being uneducated, you know nothing about me.

[Maru Kitteh]

53. Anyone can buy an education. Owing to ant-vax hysteria, children especially and the poor

are suffering and sometimes dying disproportionately unnecessarily. This is happening because some irresponsible hysterics cannot keep their failure of reason to themselves. The problem is confounded when they try to use their PhDs to impress people into thinking they have some magical powers of discernment when clearly they employ none at all.

You do harm.

I tire of treating the fruits of hysteria such as yours.

[WVRICK13]

54. They Have Therapy

for people like you. I pity your family.

[Maru Kitteh]

56. A predictably incompetent rebuke.

[orleans]

47. you're right-- doctors are SO uneducated. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. I'd like to know which are these facilities

mostly so I can avoid them.

They are wrong, it is safe... as safe as the annual vaccine.

[Robb]

44. It has been tested properly.

This "it hasn't been tested" nonsense is just that.

It's the same shot as the seasonal one. Only a different strain. The shot has many, many years of testing behind it. It is no more "untested" than each year's seasonal flu shot.

Your niece or you heard incorrectly.

[ctaylors6]

28. My son is getting over h1n1 flu now - it's made me change my mind about vaccine

He's seems to be recovering well, but the cough and respiratory part of this flu seem worse than normal flu. He went from a little bit of sore throat to terrible coughing from deep in his chest in about 48 hours. He's been to the doctor a few times just to keep watch on the lungs. The doctors say pneumonia is still a fairly rare complication of this flu. But they told me to watch for labored breathing, since that's the complication they're seeing. The data indicates that older kids (> 5yo instead of <5) are getting sicker and having complications more than with usual flu. I googled news articles and what the doctor told me was reported fairly widely: one CDC official "to put that in context, in the past three years, the total pediatric influenza deaths ranged from 46 - 88. We've already had 76 children dying from the A(H1N1) virus and it's only the beginning of October." I had seen stories on the news of a few kids in our area with NO underlying health conditions dying from h1n1 because they developed pneumonia is about less than 5 days. I honestly still would have thought those were unusual situations until I saw with my own eyes how sick he became so quickly. Thankfully after about 48 hours on the tamiflu he seems to be making a quick swing in the better direction.

I've usually been pretty indifferent about flu vaccines. I didn't think I was going to have my kids h1n1 vaccine since it hasn't been out very long. And they can take tamiflu. But if she doesn't catch this flu from my son, I'm most likely going to have her get the h1n1 vaccine as soon as it's out. I've seen in my son, who also has no underlying health conditions and IS taking tamiflu, how fast this goes from barely sick to really sick. I'm still watching for news reports about side effects from the vaccine and would change my mind if serious side effects are reported.

[Robb]

42. Glad to hear your son's on the backside of it.

Last I read there were four manufacturers with approved vaccines in the U.S., and they've taken a no-adjuvant approach with H1N1 vax, as they did this year with the seasonal flu shot. Adjuvants make smaller amounts of vaccine more effective, and are a leading cause of hysteria, but if there are going to be complications with a vaccine, it's usually related to the adjuvants, so this should be good news for the wary.

Here's a difficult-to-get-through update from CDC: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5839a3.htm

And here's the often reader-friendly "What's new with the flu" (my title) page over there: http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/whatsnew.htm

...I'm skipping seasonal this year, but I'll be getting the H1N1 shot. :hi:

[stray cat]

30. For medical employees maybe - but we treat them for TB an require other vaccines

so they are not typhoid Marys infection patients. We even ask them to wash their hands although that isn't enforced and they kill patients that way. is it bad to protect patients in hospitals and nursing homes?

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. And military personnel

this is part of force protection...

[laughingliberal]

48. Actually, they just test us for TB. We are only treated if we have it nt

[Beacho]

43. It's bullshit

there are no plans to make anything mandatory. Are these people you are talking to also claiming that it's going to be carried out by the CDC and you'll get tossed into a FEMA camp if you refuse? BTW, the CDC is not an enforcement agency

[gkhouston]

58. Why make it mandatory? It's already in the drinking water.

:sarcasm:

[JuniperLea]

59. That's how I like my compliance drugs...

Especially the bottled variety;) So handy!

[gkhouston]

61. And I thought you liked 'em bottled as beer...

:beer:

[JuniperLea]

74. No wonder I'm so docile, so accepting!

:rofl:

:toast:

[ohheckyeah]

64. Some people just can't help themselves

when it comes to defending their position on the vaccine. The question was real simple...is it going to become mandatory or not? To which I reply, I don't know.

Instead of a simple answering of the question we once again see the same arguments for and against the vaccine by the same people. Jesus, do you people get paid for this or something?


:rofl:

[dugaresa]

65. i am far more worried about what my company will do to f*ck up my healthcare for next year

every year about this time I learn about how much more it will cost me to provide healthcare to my family in case they really do get sick.

[Catherine Vincent]

73. Thanks for the discussion, folks. nt