Good luck trying to succeed as a kid in America

[LWolf]

Julia Steiny: Report: Good luck trying to succeed as a kid in America
01:00 AM EDT on Sunday, October 4, 2009

<snip>

If the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development’s most recent report had been an international comparison of test scores, the media would have gone berserk. Negativity certainly erupts when ODEC releases the results of their Programme for International Student Assessment test, since it generally shows U.S. students performing poorly compared with their peers in other industrialized nations. The PISA tests invariably get lots of press, with experts making dire predictions that our under-skilled kids and lackluster schools are taking us down to economic ruin.

ODEC is a Paris-based organization that collects and monitors statistics on 30 industrialized countries.

But ODEC’s most recent report, “Doing Better for Children,” examines child well-being, not test scores. Education data are included, but the focus is poverty, teen-parenting, environmental quality, and telling measures like whether kids have desks, calculators and other basic tools to do schoolwork at home. (Forty-eight percent of U.S. children do not. The ODEC average is 35.)

In short, by ODEC’s measures, the U.S. does a wretched job of caring for its children. The statistics are appalling. So why wouldn’t the press care?


Julia Steinby has a sharp answer to that question, and I agree with her. I've often pointed out that, if we really wanted to address poor performance in school, we'd start at the source, and invest in a stronger, broader, more vigorous social safety net.

Read the article, and tell me if she's wrong. Make your case.

http://www.projo.com/education/content/EDWATCH_04_10-04-09_C3FSODJ_v6.2af22fd.html

[XemaSab]

1. This is a flippant response

but what's wrong with doing homework at the kitchen table? :shrug:

[LWolf]

2. Nothing,

if that time doing homework is respected, if the person sitting at the table is not easily distracted, and if tv, radio, and lots of other family members and activities aren't all happening at the same time.

Why? Did you interpret the article to be critical of doing homework at the kitchen table?

The conclusions:

<snip>

In general, a kid is only as healthy as his family, only as high-functioning. Even if test scores were the gold standard of childhood health, our obsessive, narrow focus on the functioning of the schools is never going to yield the achievement we want.

The key to deep, lasting improvement of the schools would be to launch a companion effort to shore up the families, with reformed attitudes and policies. How have other countries reduced teen birth rates or, most critically, childhood poverty?

For that we’ll need some clear-sighted thinking about modern families, their needs and isolated circumstances. The other industrialized nations have policy strategies for supporting families, and they do far better than we do, including producing students with better test scores. The ODEC report references a number of documents outlining such national strategies. We should be looking to them.

And wondering why on earth we have so little interest in the people who are the most important in our children’s lives.

[donco6]

4. Can't disagree with any of that.

If a child's success in life is left up to the school alone, we're all fucked - not just the kids.

[LWolf]

7. We've always known

that home environment is a bigger factor in success at school (or anywhere else, for that matter,) than those at the top of the power chain want to acknowledge. If they did, they'd have to direct resources and reforms into communities.

The author is right. If this were a report about test scores, it would be all over the media. Since it's about "things that will not be named," it gets crickets.

This study was about a month old before this piece came out. Not exactly making the headlines.

[Yehonala]

3. It's a Matter of culture

It's a matter of culture. In Asia kids study in horrendous conditions, but they make good grades because education is considered a top priority. Nothing else. Bullying is not tolerated, parents take deep pride in their children's academic achievements, and the culture promotes relentlessly the importance of family honor and 'face.' Parents take a first priority interest in making sure their kids do well and work hard.

In America the schools are loaded with bullies, we bully 'geeks' and 'nerds' and wonder why they commit suicide by the handful. We're losing our best and brightest to either suicide, exclusion, or disinterest and parents are busy with their own lives to provide them with the basics in encouragement. Or worrying more as to my Junior isn't socializing well with the thugs at school.

[Deja Q]

6. "boys will be boys" or "discipline those who would bully"

It's a simple choice, but when someone stands up against another, the "another" has supporters saying "YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TELL US (how to discipline)"

In short, nothing gets solved.

And never will.

Because people want it both ways.

BTW: Do you have links to the grades of Asian students, proved legitimate and not embellished? Racism or, in this case, reverse racism, are not examples of evidence.

[LWolf]

8. There is certainly an anti-intellectual bent

in American culture, and that plays a part. I think that's the part about reformed "attitudes" that she mentions.

Maslow's hierarchy also plays a part. When basic needs aren't met, students aren't focused on, or successful, trying to step up a level.

That's part of what this piece is addressing.

[G_j]

31. jumped the shark

somewhere, like most everything else it seems.

[snagglepuss]

16. Well said

Welcome to DU.:hi:

[stray cat]

5. Afghanistan and Iraq and many other countries- those are tough places to be a kid

or an adult

[LWolf]

9. The ODEC monitors industrialized countries. nt

[asdjrocky]

28. So is that the standard you suggest we follow when caring for our children in America?

That is such a BS answer to these many questions and people use it all the time.

"Think you're poor here? You need to go to...(insert third world country here.)"

[HughBeaumont]

46. It's stray cat.

It's fooled a few people. But not me.

And yes, that canard SC spewed is tiresome. Squalor is Squalor and yes, it happens here. Gunfire is gunfire . . . and YES, it happens HERE.

[jinto86]

10. The question is what do we do?

There is no way that 48% of American children live in poverty and a calculator costs 10 dollars if you want a good one, 3 or less if you don't care that much, and most other basic needs aren't that expensive. The problem is too much we don't respect education in America. I worked for a bit in an inner-city school in Chicago (the less said about the experience the better) and it was scary to see how uncommitted many (not all, there were some that didn't fit the trend) of the parents didn't value education coming from my a different sort of impoverished neighborhood. Nobody came to conferences (10 of about 110 students parents), the kids didn't care about homework, and just nothing got done. It was scary seeing this... and even when I did volunteer work in better neighborhoods it was about the same. So does that government intervene? Mandate parenting classes? Do we increase the school day knowing that once kids go home much of the learning stops? Do we become a true nanny state... I just don't know what we as a country are to do.

[LWolf]

11. Those are all good questions.

I'd like to start by addressing poverty, and by investing in making sure that ALL communities in the U.S. are clean and safe.

Then mandate a living wage, and make sure there are jobs for anyone who wants them. A WPA-style program to rebuild infrastructure would go a long way to ensure that. So would universal pre-school - trade school or college, making sure that everyone leaves school with a liberal education and a trade or degree that will get them a decent job.

Universal, single-payer, not-for-profit health care would help, as well.

When all of those basic needs are met for our students, we can begin to address the anti-intellectual culture of the nation.

[jinto86]

13. As much as I hate to disagree...

I don't think that will do it. That handles most of the Maslow problems (still not bullying which we disagree on some of the root causes and therefore solutions) but it doesn't change the attitudes. I think already everyone who wants an education can get it... I know I will be called crazy here, but I spent 70,000 to get a good education, and I am not done yet (still have to get my masters, hopefully starting next fall) but I know that it will pay dividends. Beyond that I saw my mom go from welfare, to get her RN, to being in the process to get her bachelors (outside of nursing interestingly enough) almost entirely on the governments dime. The money is there, the will just isn't, people have to be willing to pay now to earn later, and right now they aren't. Get rid of the Maslow problems sure, but I don't think that even begins to do it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. I think one answer is turning our schools into community centers

Locate health centers and community assistance centers in our schools. Provide adult education classes at night - including parenting courses. Provide child care so kids can come to school with mom in the evening and someone will be there to help them with their homework. Open up the school libraries to the community.

We need to change our culture, particularly in the urban core, to one that values education. There has been great success in NYC where they have the Harlem Children's Zone, which has many of the programs I listed.

[jinto86]

14. My school had many of the same programs

It didn't work as well as one would hope. I only know on one other classmate who got a 4 year degree, and she is what I jokingly call "the neighborhood yuppie" (both of her parents had decent paying jobs, wasn't at all typical for the neighborhood). It gave us all enough of a will to finish high school, which we might not have done otherwise, but not to go beyond that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. You attended an urban school?

[jinto86]

21. 90+% free and reduced lunch rate

Yea, I would say so. Granted its Iowa urban, but still poor and impoverished.

P.S. This is part of the reason I believe in a mixed system, I saw the good the school did in the community, but also experienced the bad. It certainly wasn't the best school for me, but it was great for most of the students who went there. There should be a way to get out, even if its to a private school, even if you are poor.

[LWolf]

15. I like this idea.

We've added some after school programming this year, thanks to a grant. It includes some tutoring and some enrichment programming, and buses the kids home when we're done.

That's a small piece, of course, but it's been very well received.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. I have taught in a community based school

We had terrific results. Anything we can do to increase community involvement in our schools is a plus, IMO.

[LWolf]

43. When you think about it,

that is one of many things we can do to address the roots of poor performance in school; make sure the primary needs of the community are met.

Using schools to do that, as long as all those extra hours and programs are fully funded and staffed, is smart. When school is a community hub, it's going to get more support from the community.

[proud2BlibKansan]

44. It's a win win model

The building where I worked had the highest test scores and attendance rate in its district for several years. Most of the community based programs were funded by state grants. A GOP administration took over the state, they cut the programs and achievement dropped.

My vision sees Mom walking her kids to school where they are fed breakfast before going to class. Mom stops by the community center office in the school to discuss getting some help paying her electric bill. Then Mom goes to work. After her shift, she comes back to school for her computer literacy class, and her kids wait for her while they do their homework and then play in the school gym. After Mom's class they all walk home and sit down to a family dinner by 6 pm. One night a week they all go back up to school and Mom takes another adult ed class while the kids are in the school library on the computers.

It is definitely a workable idea.

[LWolf]

56. I like that.

I'd love to see us move forward with this kind of change.

[csziggy]

17. +100

[lonestarnot]

22. I love this idea!

Fantastic!

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. It works

Anything you do to bring the community into the school increases achievement.

[lonestarnot]

25. Yes, sounds like it would work with the right people.

[yurbud]

20. that's why GOP has 8% approval rating with 18-29 year olds.

[jinto86]

24. Not arguing with you

But I really don't see the connection between parents not caring about education and polls measuring what 18-29 year olds think. Are you advocating some policy that the GOP hates or what?

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. Are you defending the GOP?

[jinto86]

27. Nope

Just trying to figure out how its relevant here. Mindless GOP bashing does no one any good.

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. Actually it works quite well here

[jinto86]

33. Really, what has it gained you?

From what I can tell not much of anything.

[jinto86]

34. P.S. To quote my favorite Jay and Silent Bob movie

"When are you people going to learn? It's not about who's right or wrong. No denomination's nailed it yet, and they never will because they're all too self-righteous to realize that it doesn't matter what you have faith in, just that you have faith. Your hearts are in the right place, but your brains need to wake up." (at least according to IMDB, it might be slightly wrong). To often here I see people describe liberal young adults as being enlightened, and conservative young adults as being brainwashed. It makes those people seem afraid to debate based on the issues. That is why I am against random bashing. It makes you seem like you think you have everything figured out, which seems really arrogant to me.

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. "you people"?

So you aren't one of us? Just as I suspected.

[jinto86]

36. I don't trust either side

I believe in many of your causes, but when you start insulting other people for believing differently then you, no matter what their reasons and rationale are... that scares people like me away. Sorry if that upsets you.

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. LOL I am not upset

You are the one who is alienating yourself and trashing one thread after another here. It's actually somewhat entertaining watching you dig your exit hole. If you are scared away, IMO, that would be a good thing. That thought isn't the least bit upsetting.

[jinto86]

48. "I agree" topics are boring

Most topics in here seem to be "I agree"... "I agree more!"... "I agreed first" sortof like the differences between John Jackson and Jack Johnson (if you have ever watched Futurama just think of the episode where Nixon got elected). Beyond that I was in the kindof school you recommended, and it doesn't work near as well as you think it does. I talk about stuff that many here are going to disagree with (but Arianna Huffington suggested in the first place... she is such a right wing nut bag) about ways to help kids like I was and Z is out. Why shouldn't I post about that?

[proud2BlibKansan]

55. If you think the majority of topics here really are "I agree"

then you haven't spent nearly enough time here.

[yurbud]

29. funding K-12 and higher ed instead of starving or privatizing it.

[jinto86]

30. Why are the two exclusive of each other?

Thats the problem I have always had, why can't we increase funding for public education for those that do best there while letting those who aren't so good there get out, regardless of their economic status. I still don't but that neighborhood schools are good for all... I have seen too many cases to the prove the opposite, and experienced one myself.

[Luminous Animal]

37. Because. Private schools are private.

That is the exact definition. No matter how you try to rationalize it, private schools are private and thus exclusive. They can discriminate, they can glean from the top, they are not beholden to a democratic process. They are an enclave for the well to do and do not deserve to delve into the public pot.

When public schools receive as much funding as Andover, get back to me.

[jinto86]

38. A special needs private school inherientally takes only those with special needs

Read about my friend Z on the education board sometime, try telling me he doesn't deserve the best education possible (for less money then a para costs him).

[Luminous Animal]

39. Only above average or average intelligence is allowed at that school.

And who knows whether or not he's receiving the best education possible since there is no independent testing to prove one way or another. Sure, he's getting A's now but he could be getting A's for C work.

[jinto86]

40. Thats to get the best environment possible

But point granted, they probably should allow all. I think thats mostly to create an environment best for learning disabled aspies/ ADHD kids / and the like. Just like schools discriminate in some ways against people with below average intelligence to mental retardation (sped room and the like). But then again, Spectrum Charter (a very similiar school) allows all kids, including those without "average intelligence" so who knows what would happen if you offered them assistance. Beyond that he's happier, learning how to be less socially awkward (tell me thats not the business of a school all you want, without it he will never be able to get/hold a job really well), isn't being bullied, feels like he belongs, etc. So Maslow would probably say hes learning more, though there might not be a test, at least not for a few more years.

[yurbud]

41. which two aren't mutually exclusive?

[jinto86]

47. These two...

Funding it better for those it works for and letting those of it that it doesn't work for (like my friend Z) to get out of the system.

[yurbud]

49. if it works in places, they don't have a problem. The public school system I grew up in

had a solution, at least at the high school level: magnet schools based on interests like performing arts, business, medicine, and in my case, college prep and vocational. Most were a mix of neighborhood and magnet programs but my school was the only pure magnet. Discipline problems there were near zero because they always had the threat of sending us back to our neighborhood schools to hang over our heads.

[jinto86]

50. Thats school choice

And when the school is able to choose as well, most poeple here disagree with it. Beyond that I still would like a school where every teacher has a special education certification, something you don't get from most magnets, if any.

[yurbud]

52. that would be a great idea. The downside is less exposure to special ed kids means

the regular kids will be less comfortable with them in the world of work and will be less likely to hire them.

[jinto86]

54. No doubt there is a downside

But I think increased teacher knowledge (which hopefully leads to increased student knowledge), better social skills (through social skills classes and counseling services, not to mention being around people like you), less bullying (which can lead to life long promises, trust me), and the other things its helping them out with overcomes the downside. Keep in mind we are talking about special needs that can be "invisable" with enough practice and help. Most schools just don't give the help and practice is hard to do if you don't know how to. Like I said it should be a choice by the parents, measuring the upsides and downsides and coming to a conclusion, no matter what it may be.

[Quantess]

51. I happen to agree with you on this.

This is most likely NOT one of the top 5 reasons young people are turning away from republicans. So many other reasons are more salient.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

45. K&R

[TexasObserver]

53. The only really important component at home: An attitude supportive of learning.

Parents or other guardians of children either instill and nurture studying or they do not. Mom and Dad need to be right there following the work every day, checking on the homework and helping as needed.

Parents set the tone for learning.

[LWolf]

57. I have to disagree.

Not that an attitude supportive of learning isn't a vital component. It's just not the only.

A safe, loving, home; a home in which a child is well fed, well supervised and socialized, and secure in their world is also a vital component.