UC to deny spots to 600 Californians, take out-of-state and international students instead

[Newsjock]

Source: San Francisco Chronicle

Starting next fall, UC Berkeley will admit hundreds of additional out-of-state residents and international students instead of Californians as a way to make up for state budget cuts.

Chancellor Robert Birgeneau said Tuesday that his campus will be admitting as many as 600 fewer "unfunded" California students a year to offset a 20 percent cut from Sacramento. Those slots will instead go to out-of-staters.

The problem is that the state picks up much of the university's cost of educating California students - only it's not paying for as many students as it used to. Nonresidents, on the other hand, pay their own, higher tuitions that actually cover UC's cost of educating them.

Birgeneau said he understands that people will be angry that Berkeley will be freezing out Californians in favor of students from elsewhere. But, he said, "that upset needs to be directed to Sacramento."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/10/20/BAFI1A89U6.DTL

[thatsrightimirish]

1. Do not like that

University of California should be for the citizens of California

[Cleita]

3. It used to be and you got free tuition if you were a California resident

providing you met the criteria for acceptance. Proposition 13 and the Hearsts ended all of that. Now the University system has to make sure their students can pay. Another rape of the state of California by Republican backed initiatives meant to destroy the state and make a few people rich.

[Johonny]

5. nothing more entertaining

than listening to the retired people in SoCal that made their money after getting their degree from the free Cal school paid by tax dollars crying about how Prop 13 saved the state.

[Cleita]

12. I'm not one of them. I didn't vote for it and I hope Jerry Brown becomes our

next Governor and does whatever he can to repeal proposition 13. There are some parts of it that help old people and working class people, but most of it needs to go into the bad laws dumpster. It was passed during his last term as Governor. Maybe he has the savvy now to get it gone.

[KamaAina]

6. You still do!

It's not "tuition", it's fees. :sarcasm:

[Libertas1776]

7. It use to be that way

in New York State as well. Now they nickel and dime you down to your very last red cent.

[virgogal]

2. Money,money,money. What a world.

[Bonobo]

4. Don't worry. Probably just "asians".

There was a thread here last week where people were actually debating about whether or not it was racism to disproportionately turn down asian students.

[XemaSab]

8. Is it racism to disproportionately admit black and Hispanic students?

:shrug:

[Bonobo]

10. I would not call that racism, no. How about you? nt

[XemaSab]

14. It's a simple math question:

If 15% of people admitted are named Miller, and 15% of the people admitted are named Smith, and 15% of the people admitted are named Johnson, and 15% of the people admitted are named Williamson, and 15% of the people admitted are named Hunter, how much space is left for all the people named Wong, Sanchez, Nguyen, Two Hill, Tschudy, Salaam, Obama, and so forth?

[Bonobo]

15. You are suggesting that Asians are a privileged group in the same manner that Whites are?

Seems to me that Anti-Asian racism is still pretty well accepted overall compared with some other groups.

[imdjh]

16. How can you argue that something is out of whack if a group is under represented but not over?

If a group is over represented, then some other group must be under represented. Is this not true?

[Bonobo]

17. Yeah, I guess so. nt

[XemaSab]

24. About half of the students at UC Berkeley are Asian

As far as UC admissions go, yes, Asians are certainly privileged.

[imdjh]

29. Persians? Arabs? Hebrews? Kurds?

[Hepburn]

49. Have you been to UCI in recent years?

The students appear to me to be at least 80% Asian. But that is consistent with the validictorian stats in Orange County.

IMO, it's grades and test scores that matter ~~ I could not care less about the color of skin, place of origin, family background, sexual orientation, etc.

[XemaSab]

50. I can argue for and against affirmative action

At the end of the day, one fact remains: Black kids with a 3.8 won't be going to the UC without an affirmative action program.

[Hepburn]

51. Well, all I can say is this:

I was recently on the UCLA campus ~~ looks very mixed to me.

[XemaSab]

61. In the fall of 2006 only 96 freshmen at UCLA were black

making total African-American enrollment 2.4%.

In 2006, 13% were Latino, 33% were white, less than 1% were Native American, 6% were decline to state, and the rest were Asian.

http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache:sW9UiKPVbw8J:www.sairo.ucla.edu/CSAD/2006/UCUES%2520-%25202006%2520-%2520Demographics%25201.pdf+ucla+ethnic+breakdown&hl=en&gl=us&sig=AFQjCNHuhVodnGKe7bzHTjTi-eg6yd9mMg

[paulsby]

28. i remember that thread

when california was allowed to use racial preference, it was well documented, that asians suffered the worse discrimination, because they averaged the highest test scores. then cali passed a no racial preferences initiative. asians are over-represented at UC Berkeley. that's because it's a good school, and they get better grades and test scores ON average than whites or blacks.

fwiw, i went to a UC school. great school. great times

[Hepburn]

52. I'm a UC grad, too...

...and I totally agree that if you got the grades and the test scores, you get in.

I am white and female and I see no problem with what people are saying is an over-representation of Asians at certain UC campuses. Brains, studying, application ~~ they get in. Why should someone take the place of someone else with better grades and test scores?

:shrug:

Frankly, I would not want a heart surgeon working on me or my family who got through the system on affirmative action. I want the best ~~ and grades and test scores are what document that.

JMHO

[Jkid]

9. Directed?

Birgeneau said he understands that people will be angry that Berkeley will be freezing out Californians in favor of students from elsewhere. But, he said, "that upset needs to be directed to Sacramento."

"that upset needs to be directed to Sacramento."

It would not make a difference if they direct all that anger to Sacramento, would it?

[LibDemAlways]

11. California kids who take numerous honors and advanced

placement courses in high school and generally work their asses off to make it into Berkeley, which is already highly competitive, deserve better. The high taxes we pay in this state ought to ensure that our kids get first dibs on those coveted spots. And an education at a UC is hardly free. $25,000 or more a year, including room and board, is the norm for California residents.

[SheilaT]

13. Many state universities will admit

out of state or out of country students in preference to some of the instate ones, precisely because they get much more tuition money from those others. This is nothing new. All that's new is that this particular incident is being made public.

The real problem is that there are not enough spaces in the public universities in some states to accommodate all of the students who would like to attend. Although starting off at the local community college can be an excellent choice for many.l

[imdjh]

18. 2005 UC Salaries

Name/Title Campus Salary Total Pay
Daniel Farber
Professor (Law) UC Berkeley $198,000 $310,480
Daniel L. Rubinfeld
Professor (Law) UC Berkeley $200,700 $264,032
Robert D. Cooter
Professor (Law) UC Berkeley $188,100 $247,456
Rachel F. Moran
Professor (Law) UC Berkeley $173,000 $246,591
Melvin A. Eisenberg
Professor (Law) UC Berkeley $200,700 $245,300
Jesse H. Choper
Professor (Law) UC Berkeley $198,400 $241,378
Robert C. Berring Jr
Professor (Law) UC Berkeley $190,200 $237,729
Herma H. Kay
Professor (Law) UC Berkeley $181,800 $228,000
Harry N. Scheiber
Professor (Law) UC Berkeley $183,100 $227,589
Malcolm M. Feeley
Professor (Law) UC Berkeley $173,000 $220,863
Philip Paul Frickey
Professor (Law) UC Berkeley $183,100 $213,061
David D. Caron
Professor (Law) UC Berkeley $173,000 $211,444
Richard M. Buxbaum
Professor (Law) UC Berkeley $185,900 $206,556
Franklin Zimring
Professor (Law) UC Berkeley $183,100 $203,445
Martin M. Shapiro
Professor (Law) UC Berkeley $183,100 $203,444
Robert P. Merges
Professor (Law) UC Berkeley $173,000 $201,833
Anne M. Joseph
Acting Professor (Law) UC Berkeley $120,175 $201,042
Edward J. Imwinkelried
Professor (Law) UC Davis $193,500 $215,375
Robert W. Hillman
Professor (Law) UC Davis $208,000 $208,000
Neil W. Netanel
Professor (Law) UC Los Angeles $180,000 $351,812
Mark Grady
Professor (Law) UC Los Angeles $225,000 $343,300
Katherine Stone
Professor (Law) UC Los Angeles $193,600 $298,410
Khaled M. Abou El Fadl
Professor (Law) UC Los Angeles $180,000 $241,158
Simon K. Law
Hs. Assistant Clinical Professor UC Los Angeles $113,784 $236,934
Joel F. Handler
Professor (Law) UC Los Angeles $215,000 $235,998
Stephen C. Yeazell
Professor (Law) UC Los Angeles $220,000 $234,999
Devon W. Carbado
Professor (Law) UC Los Angeles $165,000 $233,298
Samuel C. Thompson Jr.
Professor (Law) UC Los Angeles $189,600 $231,733
Richard L. Abel
Professor (Law) UC Los Angeles $215,000 $230,000
Mark D. Greenberg
Acting Professor (Law) UC Los Angeles $125,400 $228,305
Daniel H. Lowenstein
Professor (Law) UC Los Angeles $185,000 $226,111
Grant S. Nelson
Professor (Law) UC Los Angeles $210,300 $225,299
Russell Kelley Robinson
Acting Professor (Law) UC Los Angeles $125,000 $224,260
Malena Shu-Chuan Law
Associate Physician Diplomate UC Los Angeles $113,900 $222,912
Carole Eudice Goldberg
Professor (Law) UC Los Angeles $190,000 $218,999
Stephen R. Munzer
Professor (Law) UC Los Angeles $190,000 $209,999
Lynn M. Lopucki
Professor (Law) UC Los Angeles $194,800 $209,800
Noah David Zatz
Acting Professor (Law) UC Los Angeles $125,000 $208,929
Grace G. Blumberg
Professor (Law) UC Los Angeles $191,200 $206,199
Eugene Volokh
Professor (Law) UC Los Angeles $154,700 $204,950
Lynn A. Stout
Professor (Law) UC Los Angeles $189,600 $204,599
David A. Binder
Professor (Law) UC Los Angeles $189,600 $204,599



http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/news/casalary/uc?Submit=Page&agency=UC&otmax=&o=&term=law&sort=workplace&ord=ASC

[amborin]

20. not that high in comparative perspective! and you posted the high uc ones!

other universities pay faculty MUCH more

which is why UC is in danger of losing top faculty

uc berkeley and ucla are world renowned public research campuses, in danger of sliding due to loss of critical density due to decreased salaries

los angeles is one of the most expensive places to live, yet its faculty salaries are declining...and were already comparatively lower than other universities

[imdjh]

21. That argument is wearing thin.

[amborin]

25. doesn't mean it's not accurate, which it is

nor that the salaries are undeserved

if you have a gripe, why not shine the light on the administrators' salaries?

THAT is the real problem

[imdjh]

32. Many years ago, the president of Toyota toured Detroit

They were scouting the idea of building Toyota in the US. He was surprised at how much the autoworkers made, but he was stunned at how much the executives made. Apparently unconcerned about the politics of candor, he allegedly said something close to, "How can you pay people who build cars so much more than people who buy them? You can't."

[Hannah Bell]

43. those = "star" pay. good proportion of classes taught by teaching assistants &

part-timers, typically.

check out top admin salaries.

As UC president, Yudof will receive a compensation package valued at $828,000 in the 2008-09 year, compared to a current package estimated at $790,000 at the University of Texas. (These figures do not include standard retirement plan funding for future retirement benefits for university employees at both institutions.)

The UC compensation consists of the following elements:

an annual base salary of $591,084 (compared to current annual cash compensation of $528,860 at the University of Texas). The UC salary falls below the midpoint salary ($606,200) set for this position by the Board of Regents and below the median salary ($644,900) of leaders of similar public and private universities used by the California Postsecondary Education Commission for comparison purposes.

as an exception to policy, supplemental pension funding amounting to $228,000 in 2008-09 and varying somewhat each year thereafter. This funding, in combination with normal UC Retirement Plan benefits, is intended to produce a UC retirement benefit comparable to what Yudof would have expected to receive at his present employer. (The University of Texas presently provides Yudof $250,000 per year in supplemental deferred compensation in addition to his base salary and normal retirement benefits.)

an automobile allowance of $743 per month or $8,916 per year;

university-provided housing, as a condition of employment;

reasonable lodging, transportation and other business-related expenses associated with university business prior to his relocation, along with reimbursement of actual costs for packing and relocation of household effects and library;

consistent with past practice, if Yudof assumes a UC faculty position immediately after his tenure as UC president, the university will arrange for the relocation of his personal belongings, and he will be eligible for a Mortgage Origination Program loan in order to purchase a primary residence;

use of administrative funds for official entertainment and other purposes allowed by policy;

standard health, pension and senior management benefits,

and standard sabbatical, sick leave and vacation accrual.

http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/17548

[imdjh]

47. Clearly I have made poor choices in life and my objections are merely class envy.

[Hannah Bell]

54. just saying, most profs, even at uc, don't make that much, & the people doing

most of the undergrad teaching, even less.

[amborin]

56. you're right, they don't

they make near the top for public universities, and well they should, since UC is world class

but near the middle to bottom , compared to private schools

uc wants and needs to keep its top faculty, who can EASILY get tenure tracks at the top private universities

[Hannah Bell]

60. yes, i guess supply & demand doesn't hold for the upper crust.

which tenured folks elsewhere will get bumped to hire the dissatisfied uc profs? or will new openings be created especially for them?

[SoCalDem]

19. Nothing new.. UCR is about 85% Asian

and mostly from abroad..

[imdjh]

22. If they were really smart, UC would open a HUGE campus someplace really cheap.

Then they could crank out UC grads at a reasonable price and take all comers.

[amborin]

26. they did, in Merced....i see you're in Florida,

why not study up first?

[imdjh]

31. I mean really cheap. Like UC Idaho. Smartass.

[Liberal_in_LA]

62. lol.

:hi:

[SoCalDem]

27. in 1996 , as a high school junior, my son took chemistry during the summer, at UCR

that ONE class cost us $700.00, the books & lab fees another $500.00.. all so he would not have to take it in High school as a senior.. He was the only "anglo" in the class, but since most of the class were cute girls from Japan and China, he did not mind one bit :evilgrin:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

45. Uh, Davis? Merced?

Maybe we should open one in Utah. Would that make you happy?

[amborin]

55. lOL

[imdjh]

30. Syrian? Iraqi? Saudi? Lebanese?

[Bonobo]

33. I think they mean "orientals".

[imdjh]

35. Wouldn't it be culturally aggressive for one race to take the name of the whole continent?

[SoCalDem]

40. No.. "Oriental" was YOUR word..

Asian is the commonly accepted terminology at schools, when they delineate their cultural composition of students.

Most around here are broken down into 5 basic categories:
Hispanic
Anglo
Asian
African-American
Other

and often the students themselves "choose" other,. since so many in CA are multi-racial, but the foreign students usually identify with their home country, for simplicity's sake. India would probably show up as "other", since most from there would most likely see themselves as SOUTH-Asian

[imdjh]

46. So is Asia, silly. Mongoloid is the clinical designation in English. Asia was the mother of Atlas..

...and as a geographical term specifically refers to the western portion of what we call Asia. On the other hand, oriental refers to the East or the rising sun, (god forbid WE associate the region with the rising sun as the Japanese and Chinese so clearly don't :sarcasm: ) and has never been used in a derogatory fashion, there being plenty of derogatory terms already in use. So really, what we have here is a bunch of puff which makes the language less specific, less accurate, all for the sake of what exactly?

[SidneyCarton]

37. Yeah, I'm currently a grad student at UCR, and got my undergrad there too.

One gets used to being in the "minority" here, it's actually kinda cool.

[SoCalDem]

41. My son loved it, since there were more girls there than guys

and since he's a smart kid, he had no short supply of young women, eager to help the cute high school guy :evilgrin:

and he was a cutie:

[SidneyCarton]

42. Well the gender imbalance hasn't changed all that much.

But being that I'm married, I would imagine your son was able to enjoy it far more than I have. :evilfrown:

[Nikki Stone1]

23. If you're angry about this, write to UC Regents

http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/regents/contact.html

[SidneyCarton]

38. They couldn't care less.

They answer to the Governor alone, and he couldn't care less either. Power+0 accountability = abuse.

[ddeclue]

34. Like some states, Florida has a "pre-pay" program

where parents can pay for college decades in advance and save money.

If Florida follows California's lead to raise more cash, then I see a ginormous Supreme Court of the United States lawsuit in Florida's future because people would be paying into a system that is then screwing them by denying access.

Does CA have pre-pay?

[imdjh]

36. I love Florida Prepaid. It's the one thing I feel like I am doing right.

I just wish a had started sooner, but hey, coulda shoulda.

[LeftyMom]

57. No.

CA offers no prepaid tuition scheme. On the upside, our state schools, in addition to being fantastic, are dirt cheap. In-state undergrad tuition in the UC system is about $8k/yr, CSUs are a bit less. The community college system, which tends to absorb any overflow, is about a grand a year for a full time student.

[barb162]

39. This is another example of how out of kilter this country is.

Imagine another country, say Japan or Germany or France, favoring non citizens over its own citizens, who are paying the damned taxes to support these public universities.

[Obamanaut]

44. You mean like introducing a bill to double the number of H-1B

visas, especially in this era of joblessness. Our own elected officials are a driving force in the out of kilterness.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=6816685

[treestar]

59. Do we know whether they do or don't?

If Americans don't go to foreign universities, it's probably because they don't learn the language to be able to go at that level to classes.

[Hepburn]

48. It all started with that fucking POS Ronald Reagan....

...education in California used to be a priority and basically free. Once Ronnie Raygun fucked the students and made higher education subject to tuition, ever since then education (along with the mentally ill) have been safe budget targets.

[imdjh]

53. How did they pay for it?

Were they also paying for Medicaid, free breakfast, lunch, and dinner, day care, infant care, section 8 housing, etc... at the same time?

This isn't a bash, but Reagan was governor a long time ago, and some of these programs probably weren't in existence or drawing as much of the tax revenues as they are now.

When I went to the high school, it had a principal, a vice principal, an office manager, a school nurse, three guidance counselors, and an admin asst. Now, there are four vice principals, two security guards, a mini health clinic, and the school serves breakfast and lunch mostly for free. It's not that I begrudge anyone a meal, I do condemn people who make it necessary to have paid security staff as well as additional admin mostly for behavior issues. But, the point is that the money has to come from some place. You simply can't do anything you want, and then send the bill to the homeowners and business owners.

[treestar]

58. Don't they always do that

All universities want diversity and accept international and out of state students. So there are always going to be some instate students that did not get in.