Why Do Men Catcall? - (Alternet)

[annabanana]

http://www.alternet.org/story/143383/why_do_men_catcall

"I want to show you a good time."
"Oh, man, talk about country thick -- big, round and juicy."
"Looks like candy. Does you melt in my mouth?"

"For some men, catcalling reinforces their sense of dominance or manliness," explains Yvonne K. Fulbright, Ph.D. and author of Sex with Your Ex & 69 Other Things You Should Never Do Again. "Others may be eternal optimists, hoping that maybe just one woman will actually throw herself at him. Still others do it because they're really just thinking with their dicks, saying the first thing that jumps into their heads."

All human beings who operate within society learn to censor their primal instincts. When nature calls, most people don't just pull down their pants in public, pop a squat and take care of business. We don't leap over the counter at Dunkin' Donuts and start stuffing Munchkins in our faces just because they look good.

So how is it that so many men operate without an "off" switch when it comes to making sexual comments? Is it because by not protesting, we've implicitly given them the go-ahead?

Gentlemen, Would you care to weigh in?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

1. never done it in my entire life

and have no idea why any would behave that way...

sP

[BlueJazz]

29. I'd commit Suicide if my Brain ever got that callous and stupid.

A Lot of men don't understand that Women, (Generally Speaking) don't like to be threatened.
..And yes, it's easy to take shit-like-that as a Threat.

[panader0]

2. Are you a religious gal?

'Cause if you are, your prayers have just been answered.

That's not really a catcall.

[annabanana]

3. huh?. . (and not especially). . .n/t

[madrchsod]

4. never have

but in my younger days i did have women make some "comments"...one when i was in 8th grade by a girl in my class...

[rucky]

5. Do men really still do that?

I've been a guy, and been around 'em all my life and never witnessed it. I thought it was done just on shampoo commercials - these days, at least.

[datasuspect]

9. i've done work in and around construction sites, industrial sites, plants

and have never seen this.

[lumberjack_jeff]

197. I'm pushing 50. I've never seen it either. n/t

[debbierlus]

235. Try wearing a mini-skirt

:)

[LWolf]

232. I used to have to walk the gauntlet

to get to high school in the 1970s. A lumberyard.

They did a good job of reinforcing what I'd already learned was my sole value to males in the world; I had no father, uncles, or brothers to teach me any differently.

[NewJeffCT]

13. well, not exactly recent

but, 11-12 years ago, not long before I married my now ex-wife, I had gone to work while she had decided to walk to the local grocery store (a 10 minute walk) wearing a new sweater I bought for her. I guess the way the sweater fit, it flattered her already big chest and she called me up at work later to complain about how a bunch of guys that were doing roadwork did the catcalling routine... and, then it happened to her again outside the grocery store. She decided to walk home another way to avoid the roadwork crew, and never wore that sweater again.

[Bobbie Jo]

158. Yes...they 'still' do this.

....and they seem to be more vocal and obnoxious in groups.

[Rabrrrrrr]

225. Used to hear it all the time by construction sites in NYC; and by the men in general in Harlem

[MineralMan]

6. I don't know. It was never my thing...

I think you're overestimating the numbers, though. Very few men engage in such nonsense.

[Arugula Latte]

152. I grew up in California and in my teens/twenties and I got this all the time.

Mostly it was guys driving by in vehicles (usually pick-up trucks) yelling stuff out the window, comments on my ass, etc. I moved to the East Coast and then later Oregon and I didn't get it as much, but that was probably because I wasn't as much of a sweet young thing by then. :eyes:

[Fla_Democrat]

7. if they were Gentlemen....

they wouldn't be catcalling. :think:

[NewJeffCT]

8. I think guys in groups

tend to act that way because they think they're supposed to act that way. Plus, in a group of 8-10-12 guys, they don't feel like the woman will tell them off for being obnoxious like the woman could in a 1 on 1 situation.

I'm not excusing it, but just trying to explain it.

[Richardo]

11. I think you're right on, NewJeff

But the group doesn't have to be that big.

[NewJeffCT]

19. true

sometimes it can be 2 or more

[RaleighNCDUer]

51. But almost NEVER one guy by himself.

It's homophobia.


Yeah. Let me explain.


Guys surrounded by guys all day long, in a purely male work atmosphere. Hot, sweaty work. Inevitably, they notice each others' physique and that freaks them out. So, they reassert their masculinity by very publicly putting on a show for the other guys of 'appreciating' attractive women who pass by.

IOW, it has little to do with the women, and everything to do with them being insecure adolescents.

[seabeyond]

63. agreed. i disagree appreciation of attractive women though. but i do believe it is for fellow men

and not about the woman. it is to confirm their own masculinity to fellow male, which is ultimately, the saddest.

but know.... appreciation gives it a respect to woman, and there is NO respect going on. the woman is a nothing, a thing, dehumanized and used by the male for his own purposes to validate his masculinity.

[RaleighNCDUer]

99. Which is why I put "appreciating" in quotes. nt

[seabeyond]

102. ah... thank you for the clarification. appreciate, lol. nt

[Captain Hilts]

39. Yes, I think that's the case. If you ask a group of cops a question, you get a smartass answer, if

you ask one, you get a polite, succinct answer.

[nolabear]

87. I totally agree with you. I grew up in a cafe that was for shipyard workers.

When I was little, I was like Shirley Temple, the cosseted little girl everyone gave treats and encouraged to be cute. When I hit puberty I started working there (too young really but it was family) and you wouldn't believe the change. Ninety per cent weren't the same men, but all I'll say is that I learned how to strategically "spill" coffee into men's laps very quickly. If I met any of those men alone on the street, they either ignored me completely or gave me that sheepish smile that said they knew they'd treated me badly. If they were in a group, as in a carpool, it was hell. It was clear they only did this for one another. Made of me a lifelong smart aleck.

[NewJeffCT]

169. Sorry you had to put up with that

I've never done more than a friendly wave & smile to a woman when I'm in my car. Never been part of the gang of guys catcalling women, though.

[nolabear]

178. Believe me, I support the smile and friendly wave!

People can be spookier than I think is good for us, too.

[Richardo]

10. It should say "Why do *Groups* of Men Catcall?"

My theory is that those who catcall, do it to impress the guys in the group, not the women. Has a woman ever been catcalled by one man standing by himself? I have no real data, but I'll bet catcallers are always in groups of two or more.

[geek tragedy]

14. Yes, it does happen. My wife gets that crap when she jogs

around NYC.

Sometimes it's guys driving delivery trucks.

[Bunny]

20. I think you're right. I think it tends to be a group thing - machismo or something.

And to address the poster below: lone males may do it, but they're in a delivery truck, or have some other method to retreat quickly if the woman decides to confront them.

[JVS]

25. I think that there are stare cultures and there are call cultures.

When I visited Italy, one of the first things I saw was a guy driving a floor waxing machine and yelling loudly to any young woman who walked by. Up in Germany or the Czech republic that wouldn't have flown at all.

[closeupready]

35. That's a good observation. France must be the most stare-friendly place on Earth.

This is going to sound arrogant, but I'm well-endowed, and even as a guy, when I was younger and living in Paris, it was marvelous to go walking about La Madeleine and the Marais commando, watching sidewalk cafe patrons admire me. Took some getting used to, to be honest. But once I did, it did wonders for my ego, :D I miss it. :( :D

But I don't even think women get catcalled in France, do they?

[paulsby]

59. i've seen it in italy

many times. never seen in in the US, so i think it's rare here.

[seabeyond]

64. yup. never one on one in face, but where he can run away..... nt

[Tracer]

22. I guess you could call this a "single-man-catcall".

Some years back, I was walking to work in the city.

A young guy walking towards me from the opposite direction, leaned toward me as we passed and said "Nice legs!" -- and kept on walking.

Actually, I didn't mind one bit!

[katkat]

49. nice legs, that's different

I had that happen in my younger days. When it's not meant to be offensive or threatening, it is nice.

[Kalyke]

122. I have been catcalled by solitary men.

It doesn't just happen in groups.

Of course, I just flip them off and ignore any further protestations.

[geek tragedy]

12. Because they're sexist pigs.

Another short answer to a simple question.

[ensho]

61. kick lol

nt

[NashVegas]

15. In My Hometown

You can be out on your morning walk in loose shorts, a t-shirt, sneakers, 30 lbs overweight ... and passing trucks will honk and wink.

[DrDan]

16. I have never even seen it - much less participated

[aikoaiko]

17. Any attention from a woman (even a look of disgust) is better than no attention at all for some men.

Plus, there is the very weak intermittent reinforcement of it sometimes leading to a reciprocating smile, a little conversation, a date, or sometimes, rarely, sex.

And yes, when there is no social punishment for doing it, it happens more -- especially in groups, but that is true of most things.

[cleveramerican]

18. boredom? Ignorance of actual women?

showing their plumage to the other males in the flock.

[Phoonzang]

21. Mob mentality? Same thing that drives groups of bullies in school to

team up and torment a single individual. I suspect it's something biological. Not that that excuses anything since we're a sentient species.

[JVS]

23. Because we care.

Actually, I don't catcall much. I'd much rather wink. ;-)

Actually, that's not true either. I avoid eye contact with strangers. Unless they seek eye contact, in which case I stare them into the fucking ground.

[Fleshdancer]

24. I've only experienced cat calls twice in my life

The first time scared me because I was only 14 years old and it was extremely intimidating. I was walking to the bus stop and a group of roofers thought it would be funny I guess.

The second time was odd. I was in a restaurant with a group of girlfriends where a large table of men would cat call loudly every time a woman passed by. When it was my turn, I whipped around and yelled "SHUT THE FUCK UP!". Everyone else in the restaurant applauded and the men didn't do it to anyone else after that. :)

[MineralMan]

164. An excellent response, I think...and effective.

A blast of pepper spray would also work, I bet.

[tonysam]

201. Only twice?

I have had it happen DOZENS of times in my life. There NOTHING flattering about verbal sexual harassment.

[apples and oranges]

26. instinct

[Bonhomme Richard]

27. Maybe when I was ten. But then I grew up. n/t

[kenfrequed]

28. Never have...

So unfortunately I can't weigh in on it.

Though I have done 'guy talk' about women when they are not around.

I suspect there is probably a correlation and I imagine it is sort of a group activity. The what for might not be much different than a strange instinct humans have for rating things or quibbling about quality. Half of the reality shows on television seem to make use of this impulse.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TorchTheWitch]

41. hot babes, hot chicks, piece of ass

I can see why you think it's all entertainment - just fun and games. :eyes:

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

42. I thought I'd spice up the response with some colorful nouns.

I have more, but it's a bit early to try offending everyone.

[TorchTheWitch]

45. {CLICK}

[annabanana]

56. Ah yes. . I "remember" {CLICK}. . . . .

I got it during an antiwar protest organizing meeting. . and was sent for paper & pencils.

[TorchTheWitch]

80. just my way of "disposing of rubbish"

some people here just beg to be taken out to the trash if you get what I mean. ;)

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[annabanana]

55. "cat calls are all fun and games" . . if you're a guy

From the "other side" they are horrible.

[seabeyond]

65. guys know this. and they dont care. they do it to feel like men. why they need other men to

validate their own masculintiy says a hell of a lot about them, and are the men that women DONT want anyway

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

71. Yes, and women never hoot or hollar when their packs are out on the town...

I can't tell you the number of times I've seen a pack of gals scream something like "Ow Ow!" at some guy out the sunroof of a car or at the mall. Girls, don't even try and talk your way out of the raucous you make at the beach on spring vacation or at greek parties. I've never seen a guy get butthurt by a female cat call, so call me a skeptic concerning your anguish in the matter.
Cat calls... OH THE HORROR!!!! :rofl:

Really, it's all just fun and games and the people doing it seriously... well they're obviously not getting any.
I don't see the big deal. Cat-calls have never been my thing but I can certainly get a laugh at them as well.
Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

[Whisp]

100. the big deal is women don't feel safe in public

and get raped a lot more often than men do by women howling at them from cars.

sheesh.

[seabeyond]

but... it is a valid point. and i have seen (generally) girls do this and didnt like

i felt it just as demeaning and purpose to embarrass, adn didnt think any more ok than when men, groups of men or boys did it either.

[Whisp]

106. I don't like women doing that either, it's pathetic

actually. still trying to act 'like men' to feel 'equal'.
bah, such nonsense.

[seabeyond]

110. exactly. "trying to act 'like men' to feel 'equal'." point, right on. yes. nt

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

141. So when women cat call, they're just "acting 'like men'"?

Sure, in an act to feel 'equal' to men women emulate a "manly" action. :eyes:
I mean, cat calls MUST be "manly" because catcalls are rude and pathetic - otherwise women would not be compelled to emulate those actions.

or it could just be because it's humorous/entertainment/shenanigans/etc.
C'mon, you really think there's any other reason for cat calls outside of already sexual atmospheres than entertainment???
I'm going to have to side with Occam's Razor here: When you get a group of peers together, joking around often ensues.

If anything, women whom call the men out on their piggish behavior are showing far more zeal for equal rights than a pack of liquored up gals dropping bad pickup lines at some guy in a Ferrari.

[Whisp]

147. thats what I think, yes.

a lot of woman mistake what feminism is or should be about. It's not to act more like men to get 'accepted', - )like a woman politician has to be 'tough' to be taken seriously, i.e. be even a bigger asshole than the male counterpart) its to feel comfortable being women and doing things a woman's way.

Women catcalling is a relatively new development I think, coinciding generally with the start of the womens movement. Or at least in the same abrasive and piggish way that men tend to do that.
Wheeeee! isn't this freedom grand! I can make an ass out of myself 'jus like a maaaan'.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

148. I can see your logic and understand it.

I just tend to disagree. Not saying your idea is wrong or mine is right... just recognizing that I think differntly.
No doubt the difference in opinion is XX vs XY viewpoint related. :toast:

[tonysam]

113. It's basically telling women they have no right to go in public alone

n/t

[Whisp]

117. or if they go out in public, they are then public property

and if you don't like it, don't wear that sweater, don't walk that way to work, or just don't walk that way, don't look good.

don't don't don't
it's your fault, whats a red blooded guy to do?

[tonysam]

150. It's a point in the continuum of the rape culture

Few men who catcall would actually rape women, but the attitude displayed by these men says women have NO business being in public, alone (or even with other women), without a male escort. These women who have the unmitigated gall to actually take advantage of their right to freedom of movement are a threat.

[Heidi]

133. It's probably never happened to you, and that's why you don't "get it." (nt)

[MineralMan]

167. Are you being deliberately provocative or are you

just not that bright?

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

177. The OP asked for male input on the motivation for catcalling.

The comments are relevant and I truly believe a majority of catcalling is made in jest.
What's your issue with the line of discussion?

[redqueen]

73. +1

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FSogol]

32. It would be so weird if a cat called me. What would it say, "Meow?"

:woohoo:

[juno jones]

166. Knowing cats it would say,

"Why don't you call MEEEEEEE! You never call MEEEEEE! You leave me all alone, never feed me enough and you never call MEEEEEE!"



Of course this might simply translate as "Meow". :)

[dionysus]

33. guys that do that are otherwise known as assholes?

:shrug:

[SIMPLYB1980]

34. Not defending it per say, but it is a way to

find promiscuous women. I've done it in a club, but I wouldn't do it to a lady walking down the street.

[left coaster]

43. Hmmm...

So is the man doing the whistling also promiscuous, in your estimation, or no? You didn't say.




I would say that men who engage in this kind of behavior, whether alone, or in groups, are, by in large, of the insecure variety. It's happened to me, it's happened to female friends of mine, I've/they've usually just ignored the fools. Not worth the time, really.

[SIMPLYB1980]

47. Yes. I don't see why people get so hung up on

people enjoying sex. I go to the club to hook up with women that want to hook up with me. It's not like we are not adults. If I come on to her with a stupid line or cat call, and she responds positively them I basically know it's on. Nothing wrong with promiscuity as long as you are single and use protection.

[left coaster]

52. Who's chastising consenting adults for looking for/ or enjoying sex?

It's your terminology I found fault with.. promiscuous has a, for better or worse, moral judgement connotation attached to it (I also found it interesting that you initially only labeled the woman who respond to your whistling as promiscuous, and not yourself) The term 'sexually active' men and women would be a better way to say it, in my opinion..

[SIMPLYB1980]

54. I can understand that, but I have no problem with the word

being used to describe a male or female it it is accurate. I'm promiscuous because I am not looking to get married. I'm honest with my partners about this so I don't see what the problem is. Women like sex with no commitment as much as men do.

[G_j]

36. Is it because by not protesting, we've implicitly given them the go-ahead?

YES

[raccoon]

44. In many such situations, a woman might be concerned about her physical safety. Such as a woman

alone walking past a group of men.


Sounds like you're blaming the victims.

[Gormy Cuss]

70. Sometimes it feels unsafe, but often times just challenging them will stop the behavior.

That's what I discovered when I figured out as a teen that a catcall in public was always meant to be demeaning. So if it happened on a crowded street, flipping the bird or just giving them a cold stare was enough except for the worst troglodytes. For them a well placed comment like "You really think that matters to me? Seriously?" or for the coarser ones, "Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?" The worst that ever happened was they started yelling "Dyke!" but none ever threatened me.

Now walking alone at night or in a desolate place is another story. There it's usually not worth the risk of engaging them.

[G_j]

156. no, I'm speaking of a guy w/ his 'buddies', calling them on their behavior

that's what came to my mind. As a man who has worked w/ carpenters and other trades, I've been in that exact situation.
It can be intimidating at times, confronting other men over sexist attitudes. Still. I've tried my best, because I hate that stuff.

[seabeyond]

160. and this is what i hear from a lot of men. i respect that position too

my son has talked to me about things said, and says, really wants to speak up, but knows when it is not going to do any good.

hubby has expressed the same.

i dont even ALWAYS want to speak up and deal with it.

but really, for males to be "enlightened" it has to come from other males. those opinions are what is important to a guy. women.... tend to place the importance on what the man thinks. odd, but consistent

[G_j]

163. absolutely

" it has to come from other males "

& that is what is lacking most of the time.

[seabeyond]

165. i agree. why i like threads like this, when not about attack, more awareness and

expressing just how it feels from the other perspective. but really, for me, i think the guys point of view, yours, is as valuable on threads like this

[G_j]

172. I also think threads like this are really important

I have to believe, from my what I've learned in my lifetime, that these issues are at the top of the list, in terms of humanity getting it's act together. Being silent in the face of sexist attitudes and policies, is complicity.

[seabeyond]

226. it also helps me keep in perspective this is not the whole of the male think

further, it is a small minority, adn listening to men, does us women good too. just thinking about your post and other male posts on this thread. the strong majority, that think this behavior at the least is childish.

it ALWAYS does me good. and hubby, always appreciates it, lol. i am feeling so blessed with him when a thread is all said and done, and i value and appreciate him just that much more.

[left coaster]

53. In some ways, yes, we do..

As I said, I generally have ignored men who engage in this kind of behavior.. there have been times, however, when I've responded negatively, flipping them the bird or telling them to eff off.. It generally has stopped the activity, but on rare occasions, it has actually fueled the behavior.

Bottom line, it is a form of sexual harassment, and it really shouldn't be tolerated or condoned.. thing is, what is the most effective way to curb this behavior? I don't have a ready answer..

[G_j]

161. actually

in terms of my own experience as a man, I was answering that question from the point of view of men who say nothing about the behavior of other men.

[JerseygirlCT]

194. Which amounts to blaming the victim

the men who do that are the jerks. It really shouldn't have to take women telling them so - especially when the woman feels threatened - to get them to behave like adults.

[G_j]

195. please see #36

for clarification

[JerseygirlCT]

229. You might notice that I was responding to just that

post.

It's ludicrous to attempt to blame women when men aren't able to exercise the slightest self-control. Sounds like the Taliban, frankly.

[tomm2thumbs]

37. the ones that do have small minds and even smaller labidos

if they could, they would. they whistle cuz they can't and they don't

[Captain Hilts]

38. I've only gotten it from Hispanic construction workers. Not from sailors, or other whites.

I would get it in Little Portugal in Toronto, or near construction sites in DC.

I never experienced this is Norfolk, VA, with the highest concentration of military personnel in the world.

[Arugula Latte]

153. White guys were the main ones who said stuff to me when I was younger.

[Captain Hilts]

174. I specified the cities because I'm sure the patterns vary and the stereotype is that sailors are THE

worst. Who knows? In San Diego, they might be...

[Extend a Hand]

40. nice tits

A friend and I went into a Hardees in Springfield, OH a couple of years ago and a group of about eight construction workers were eating and one hollered at us "nice tits." My friend, never missing a beat looked him right in the eye and returned "nice bulge."


All the guys at the table with him just about fell on the floor laughing. I don't think I could ever pull that off but it sure was hysterical when she did it.

[annabanana]

58. "HA". . . I must remember that one. . . .n/t

[seabeyond]

66. my response

would be more in line with.....

little penis?

[Mari333]

46. Constantly happened to me in Chicago when I was a young woman

I would go right up to them and say "Im someone's sister and I have a mom and a dad and I am in a family Im someone's daughter".
A lot of them would stop.
Once, I got so mad I threw a bottle at them and it crashed in front of them.
If you ignored them they got worse, they would call you "bitch!"
I really hated it.
I felt, at the time, that I was being subjected to their ideas that they had every right to infringe on my life. without my permission. I was pissed off, because that meant they thought I was owned by them. That I was less than them. That I was nothing to them but an object. I hated it, because I liked who I was as a human being. and to me, people like that were shallow and ignorant. I was a very very angry young woman.
Ive talked to young women now who have the same thing happen to them..I mean, really young women of 15 and 16. They told me they hate it also.

Now, I am sooo glad I am old, and appreciate the PEACE and PRIVACY. I had to wait 40 yrs to get peace and privacy and respect .

[PassingFair]

57. Can't say I hated it, but it made me completely uncomfortable...

When I first started working in our family printing
business, my dad would send me down to drop off artwork
and pick up magnesium plates (dating myself BIGTIME here....!).

The plate makers space was on the third floor of a very
old warehouse, and there was always construction going on
around it.

In the second week of my job, after being catcalled everytime
I walked to the warehouse door by construction workers across
the street, I decided to yell back.

One of the jerks yelled out: "Hey sweet thing, wanna get lucky?"

I yelled back: "If I want to get lucky, I'll buy myself a lottery ticket-- better odds!"

I heard hysterical laughter from the third floor windows and looked up to
see my dad's business acquaintances laughing their heads off.

When I got up there, the oldest guy came up and said "Lottery Ticket!...you're
your old man's daughter all right!"

Instant respect, although the cat-callers also referred to me as "Lottery Ticket"
for the duration of their project.

:evilgrin:

But let me tell you about the time I went on a DATE and afterwards,
the guy took me to a "party" which happened to be a BACHELOR PARTY
for a friend of his, and I was mistaken for the STRIPPER....

[seabeyond]

68. i feel it is an infringement to. a control. a way of dominating. and i hate it too. and yes

every young girl i know, talking to them, feel about the same

the men know they are making the woman or girl uncomfortable, that is the purpose. and they continue to do. that says everything about it.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

94. I hear you!

I went to a Catholic high school, so I had the whole uniform skirt thing happening as well. :( I went through daily verbal harrassement and leering while waiting for the bus at 24th and Mission streets here in SF. It could be one guy by himself or a whole group of them -- my classmates and I would huddle together trying to fend off the unwanted attention. :( It was worse when I was alone and a group would be going off on me. I felt really threatened by it all. Once I started working downtown, every lunch hour I got some sort of commment, whistle, leer.

I found the behavior utterly disgusting and wanting nothing more than to punch the fuckers square in the face. Now I am older and invisible. And I love it! :D



Now don't get me started on the guys on a crowded bus who would rub up against your back with their dicks. :eyes:

[seabeyond]

101. rub up against your back with their dicks. ..... yup. nt

[Hell Hath No Fury]

118. GADS I hate that!

I was so young and had never been told how to appropriate respond - I just tried to move away.

Luckily my crowded bus days are over, but today I would just reach around and grab them and squeeze as hard as I could! :D

[seabeyond]

119. that is the problem and men know. by the time we are old enough to grab and squeeze

they go after the girls that are intimidated, inexperienced, afraid adn sit there with deer in headlight behavior. cause they dont have the courage, experience or confidence to grab and squeeze

[intheflow]

48. Some butthead unrec'd.

You've obviously threatened a freeper's manliness by calling him out on this. Good work!!

For the record, I was catcalled quite a bit back in my 20's, about 20 years back. It always guaranteed them to get the finger from me, and nothing more. I think it's a one of those weird guy things, like straight men who get drunk and compare dick size or football players who slap each other's asses, except without the homo-erotic overtures. Maybe it's a way for them to signal to their mates that they're straight. :shrug:

[izzybeans]

50. I wonder just how many men do this.

I don't know any. I know it happens.

They could have saved time and money if they just concluded apriori that only douchebags catcall.

And apparently Sir Mix A lot: "Oh, man, talk about country thick -- big, round and juicy."

[Sancho]

60. Men just make noise to show off to other men...

even the dumbest men expect women to be po'd or ignore catcalls.

I suspect that women know when they are trying to be attractive to get attention. I not sure that men always know that they are acting pretty immaturely. I'm grateful to my mother for teaching me as much as I was capable of learning about how to behave! Thanks, Mom.

[Lerkfish]

62. I'm not a good male to weigh in, having never done it.

except to my wife in private... heh.

but I think the linked article is bit too slanted. I personally don't think its intended to really have a result (in other words, I don't think the men believe a woman will stop on the spot and hand out her phone number). I think these guys think they're complimenting a good looking woman walking by. kind of holding up numbers like the olympics.
Its juvenile and stupid, but I think the article doesn't go any deeper than the surface to analyze it.

Not that I condone it, by any means, I think it can be a disturbing thing for a woman to go through. But I don't think its entirely meant in the way that article characterizes it.

[left coaster]

72. The article is from the female POV... if you call that slanted, fine..

I think it's important to raise public awareness on this subject, and what better way to do that than to hear from a woman who has actually been intimidated/insulted/or at the very least, had their peace of mind taken away due to an incident of group sexual harassment. It's a learning opportunity, for both genders, I should think.

[Lerkfish]

202. The OP REQUESTED male input.

which I provided. My input does not negate the article's. I am only offering my impression of what is going on, AS REQUESTED.

[LanternWaste]

67. I imagine it's little more than a lack of dignity and class...

I imagine it's little more than a lack of dignity and class with the particular men who are either guilty of it or feel compelled to do it-- regardless of whether they act on it or not; and illustrate that lack of dignity and honor by verbally objectifying females. It all comes to class, honor, respect and dignity-- any other defense else is simply a lazy justification.



That being said, in my younger days Ive been catcalled by groups of young ladies on more than one occasion, and my only thought was, "clean up your act, show a little class, and then maybe we can talk..."

[seabeyond]

69. see, totally agree on both your points. thanks

for throwing in your perspective on females too. just as valid. and spot on

[eShirl]

74. I've seen women catcall, too.

I believe they meant it to be light-hearted, harmless teasing, but the man I talked to was too embarrassed to speak up and ask them to stop this behavior that made him uncomfortable. (This was in a vocational school class with a 10-1 female to male ratio.)

[Vehl]

75. Never done it....

I have not done this ever....In fact i get extremely annoyed when some of my friends(they get evicted from that list the moment they do this :)) )do this. Imho this act is low class and should be shunned by men altogether, as it treats women as some object to be lusted after..especially in public; rather than as fellow human beings with complex emotions.

[seabeyond]

78. guy....

i think i love you..... teasing. i agree whole heartedly with your post. and thank you

[Vehl]

88. yw

No thanks needed but thank you. I was but stating the obvious :)

[Deep13]

76. I guess it's the best they can do sometimes.

It's the functional equivalent of, "I want to say something to express my attraction, but I've got nothing." Women's minds are a mystery to most men.

[seabeyond]

79. when men do this, it is meant to be demeaning, meant to be dominating. i think you are off

i dont think it is anything so innocent as trying to express attraction.

[Deep13]

89. What makes you say that?

For the record, I've never resorted to cat calls.

[seabeyond]

91. being a female and living with it a lifetime. talking to fellow females about

what we feel when it is done to us. they project what they are doing, their intent is clear.

we as people cannot get away with nearly what we think we can. we project our intent. and women and GIRLs, living with this forever know the intent of the male that does this. they dont hide it

i would have to say experience lets me know and every other female

read the thread

[Deep13]

95. What's their intent?

I guess I'm rephrasing my question in repose to your rephrased statement.

Sorry, I'm at the office and don't really have time to read the thread. I was hoping you could just give a brief explanation, because I really don't know. I would figure their intent was was relieve the monotony of the day, but having never made cat calls, I really don't know.

[seabeyond]

sure. "relieve the monotony of the day" at the expense of the female. entertain

themselves at the expense of another person. to feel like a man, in front of their male peers at the expense of a female.

to demean. to dehumanize a person. they are nothing, .... it is all about the male entertainment and using that female for their entertainment. her "attractiveness" doesnt really matter. he pumping his chest out for fellow guys, or self is what is at stake

[Deep13]

130. I may be a little slow when it comes to these things.

I can see that cat calls are rude and would make a woman uncomfortable. I just don't understand how it is dehumanizing. Is there an implied assertion of power in the cat calls? Is it that expressions like this are necessarily at someone's expense? How? There seems to be an underlying assumption here that you find obvious that I am just not seeing.

:shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

[seabeyond]

136. maybe cause you dont, havent experienced. a lifetime of knowing place because of female.

have you ever been in service industry and been treated like nothing, because you are there to serve.

they take a females sexuality and play with it, without the consent of the female. that alone takes the power away from female.

the men do this as the dominate figure. and they generally go after the very young, insecure girl. they do it with intimidation. it implants a fear. and they dont consider the effect it may have on the person, cause it is their entertainment and that person doesnt matter. they have been dehumanized. they are not treated like a person. their personhood does not matter, is not relevent.

all that alone is offensive behavior if one has to experience it.

of course their is an implied assertion of power, as there is when a man merely leers. lets a woman know he can "hit it". the female is not a consideration, who she is. she is a thing to this man. to be hit. it is menat to be demeaning and insulting. men do it purposely. they do it on du. they know they are being insulting to a female and chuckle with glee.

not funny

they look the fool. tells me they are men, that likely miss and hit nothing.

[Deep13]

189. I think I understand. Thanks. nt

[Hell Hath No Fury]

104. Not many of guys I ran into.

There were very clear thought bubbles over their heads: "Man I'd like to fuck her." What gave it away? Was it the naked, sexual leer on their faces while their eyes ran over every inch of my body? Could be.

I wish it were always as "innocent" as "I want to say something to express my attraction, but I've got nothing."

[seabeyond]

111. "Was it the naked, sexual leer on their faces"... yes, and words are not always used

"Man I'd like to fuck her."

to do the same as a catcall.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

120. Honestly, the catcall was bareable --

compared tr The Leer. After The Leer I always felt dirty, like I needed to go home and clean myself off. :(

[seabeyond]

123. you are right on. and so many pretend it is harmless or just a game and it isn't

it is offensive, insulting and no one should have to be subjected to it because of a person immaturity or stupid. they are fools. they come off as fools. there is nothing attractive or desirable about this behavior

but the really odd, is this is to make them feel like a man. and it is all that a man is not.

[Deep13]

206. My guess is that it is not knowing their intentions...

...makes it implicitly threatening. I don't think sexual desire is guilty in anyway. Desires do not necessarily lead to action. "I'd like to..." doesn't mean "I intend to...." Of you have no way of knowing what they intend to do. My guess is that 's why it is rude and unwelcomed.

Am I stating the obvious or am I way off base? I don't understand these things instinctively, so I have to figure them out.

[redqueen]

77. It's bullying behavior. Whether men or women do it.

Those that do it are bullies.

Lots of kids that bully other kids think they're just having a good time, it's no big deal, it's all fun and games.

No coincidentally, those are the exact justifications used for this. And the same kind of advice comes for those who are bullied - just stand up to them. But how about we also stop pretending that bullying is all just 'fun and games'? How about that?

[seabeyond]

81. and you are right on. bullying. yes. nt

[Sky Masterson]

82. I find it rude.

..

[DarbyUSMC]

83. Back in the day, it was definitely done when men were in groups........ BAM is a slang term for

Marines who are women. The Marines who worked with the females were not apt to ever use the term but when walking to work or by any of the Marines in 2nd Marine Div who were were in a "clump" we got "BAMed" No Marine would ever have yelled that out had he been alone. It's discouraging to think that group mentality often is the rule of thumb. (Photo USMC 1963)

[Romulox]

84. I think this is a television cliche. What evidence exists for this behavior in the real world?

:shrug:

[eShirl]

86. Real world experience. n/t

[Hell Hath No Fury]

96. Not a cliche' --

that was my life for 15+ years.

[Romulox]

103. Guys in hardhats biting their fists (as in the picture in the OP)? nt

[Hell Hath No Fury]

114. They are not biting their fists --

they have their fingers in their mouths and are whistling.

And yes, I have experienced the cliche' of hardhats whistling as I passed a construction sites.

I have also experienced a man telling me he had a nice sausage for me, a man touching his dick while watching me at a bustop, many men rubbing themselves against me on crowded buses, a man on a motorcycle whip his dick out while I crossed the street, a man masturbate against my car window after I left a club -- I could go on, I have a lot of them.

Men can do somne seriously nasty shit when out in public.

[Romulox]

151. It's an obviously staged photo, whatever it is they are doing...

"I have experienced the cliche' of hardhats whistling as I passed a construction sites."

That's bad, but it's hardly a daily experience for most women. Like I said, a tv cliche.

[guitar man]

90. Because they have tiny penises

The rest of us are confident enough to know how to talk to a lady ;)

[seabeyond]

93. right on BUT

i think there is something to be said about the tiny penis too. it is all good, wink. dont want to knock the tiny penis. i see it more the shriveled penis. even the tiniest can be mighty. but the shriveled.... use less.

seriously. i do feel it is the man, trying to be a man, in front of fellow males. my hubby has never felt the need to prove his manhood to other men, and he is the most confident and secure. a good place to be, i think. has taught me a lot about men. and that reflects on how they treat women

of course, there is the insecure female that brings a lot into the party too. not a one gender thing. insecurity for either gender is hell, to me.

[Blue_Tires]

92. wow...people still do that?

and it's enough of an issue for this author to comment?? i haven't seen, heard, or given a catcall since 10th grade...

[seabeyond]

97. my boys, about 8 and 10 outside in front yard with big boob niece at 11 who thought she was still a

kid

was outside in swimsuit playing in the sprinklers.

a couple young men driving up street in pickup slowed down and gawked. pulled in neighbors driveway, back out and came back down the street to slow down to a stop and gawk some more.

ya

they still do it.

she was given a lot of lessons at a young age cause of early development. waiters rubbing crotch against her pouring water in her glass at 12....

[eShirl]

128. most of my experiences with that kind of behaviour was between age 11 and 15

it made me feel disillusioned with humankind for a while :(

[seabeyond]

132. my poor niece. it has so messed her up. i feel so sorry for young girls today. i have boys

it is a different angle i see in my life regularly adn what i parent to. a whole different world. but they learn by seeing what peers and their cousin and other girls go thru. at least they "get it".

[Blue_Tires]

135. i'm not trying to pick nits, but isn't there a difference between

a leer/gawk/lewd stare and actually calling out something sexually juvenile to the woman...granted, the motivations for both are the same, but a lot of men i know can leer and gawk while none of them catcall...

[eShirl]

139. yes, there is a difference

at least the ones who gawk without hollering out something rude have some amount of self control

[seabeyond]

the motives are the same. why i psoted this. it is not jsut the catcalls we get to

make us uncomfortable. there are other ways males behave that are not catcalls. the leer. the rubbing up against us with their dicks. the touching.

none of them are different, all the same, all with the same motive. to enhance the males masculinty, power, control, intimidation of female. to dehumanize. objectify.

this is what women, girls experience for a lifetime and when we try to talk about it, then we are dismissed. let a male one day walk in the shoes of female, just to understand

all these behaviors sole purpose is to put a female in her place. we know it. we feel it. we know the intent and purpose of the behavior. it is not hidden.

as we age, we dont put up with. men know this. they look for the girl that doesnt connect eye to eye. they are cowards. and it is to make them feel empowered.

[Posteritatis]

214. I'd consider a car doubling around and *stopping* to leer to be about the same, really. (nt)

[Deep13]

98. Perhaps it's caused by sexually repressive nature of our society.

:shrug:

[Gwendolyn]

108. Well, in that case I'll take it any day over the alternative...

Two women walking down the street in Brussels and taking a wrong turn down the wrong male-dominated street to find ourselves plopped in the middle of culture shock... facing down a hundred or more stoney-eyed males, their expressions barely disguising the contempt they had for us. THAT felt like running the gauntlet. Crossing a construction site at lunch time, much, much less. I'll take it any day.

I hope someday someone can show me how to catcall. Every time I try I end up spitting saliva all over my hand.

[Deep13]

125. Eww!

I think men can be both nonviolent and not rude. Obviously, some of us never got that lesson, but that does not mean we are not responsible for our own behavior.

[seabeyond]

126. eeew is right. why settle cause somewhere else is worse.

appreciate your post.

[Gwendolyn]

149. Which is ewww? The religious fanatics disgusted by women out alone, or me spitting on my hand?

I agree that men and women are responsible for their own actions. Sometimes the catcalls can get uncomfortable, especially if there are hundreds of them having lunch at the same time or are starting work in the garment district in the morning. They can be dispersed pretty easily however. The one guy in his truck appreciating my behind as he drives by barely registers. I count myself lucky that most of the leerers and catcallers in my life have been as respectful as can be. But then, I usually meet their gaze when they call attention to themselves, so that may have something to do with it.

As usual though, I see the one or two voices that always appear on these threads have overwhelmed it with the absolute height of hysterical drama. Most women don't think all men are disgusting pigs the way the one or two do.

[redqueen]

155. "most of the leerers and catcallers in my life have been as respectful as can be"

What an odd statement.

[Gwendolyn]

159. Allow me to explain then.

I don't have big boobs so it's usually the face or ass they're looking at. I've noticed that when I meet their gaze they often back down right away, or grow quiet and get this o-mouthed look of wide-eyed semi-fear, or awe in their eyes. Sometimes it becomes a smile and a compliment. I differentiate this behavior from the sexually charged, laughing, jeering kind.

[seabeyond]

162. and you are older, and more confident and experienced, and you arent a kid

it isnt always about you, or me. but sometimes about our girls growing up in this very world and their experience. as a female, i do place the emphasis on the confidence as i am sure they will gain thru experience. and the eye to eye. but that comes with ..... age.

it still does not lessen the feeling our girls experience when they have this done to them, and the intent by the male.

[Deep13]

188. The "other alternative."

I took that to me aggression.

I didn't realize the men in the group you described were religious fanatics.

[Gwendolyn]

230. Yes, I didn't describe it well.

It was basically a small city block converted into a series of menz cafes, with tables lining the street. We didn't realize women were verboten till we got about a third up the block and the sudden silence and piercing, contempt-filled stares gave us a clue. It really was like running the gauntlet. We thought about turning around and going back, but by then it was six of one, half a dozen of the other so we continued on, hearts pounding. That was far, far worse than any construction crew's lunchtime wolf whistling, let me tell you.

[ddeclue]

105. UNRECC'D for BROADBRUSH STEREOTYPING.

The vast majority of men do NOT act like this.

[tonysam]

109. Far too many men do

Women who are past 30 or 35 seldom get this treatment; it is almost exclusively young women who are treated like crap in this fashion.

[ddeclue]

112. I've never seen it IRL and I'm 43 years old and a man.

Men certainly talk about women to other men but I've never seen them cat call to a woman's face IRL.

[tonysam]

115. They do

I have been at the receiving end of it, although I am much older now so it is very rare in my case these days.

But it happens ALL the time with younger women, especially those under 30 or 35 years of age.

[seabeyond]

116. these male posters that ignore all the posts women have made on this thread and say nu uh.....

really dont want any info. denial is a friend to some.

[ddeclue]

131. not denial. personal experience. Sorry if ours differs from yours.

[seabeyond]

143. of course it is denial. if you dont listen to all the women, and as a male say

i dont see it, so it must not be there. then it is denial. yes, experience is different. as i know i dont experience the same as male, nor would i ever presume to know male experience beyond a male. i listen, and learn, and listen some more. i want to knwo what they experience, why the feel as they do. and i KNOW i cannot gain that info from my perspective

so you know how often i read on du, a conversation about woman experience and men telling me how i am suppose to fee, what i am suppose to think adn they are clueless.

i always wonder about the lack, in that kind of mind

[ddeclue]

146. It's NOT denial - I only have YOUR anecdotal word for it - your word is no better than MINE.

Go do a statistical study if you want me to think this is more than stereotypical male bashing.

:P

[Arugula Latte]

184. "Personal experience" -- Yeah, your personal experience of NOT geting cat calls (and worse)

which differs greatly from the vast majority of women who have actually experienced this shit.

[seabeyond]

187. i think the poster is .... male. lol. dont imagine his experience is quite the same. nt

[JonQ]

191. The vast majority of women have had this happen?

I doubt that. In italy maybe, but not here. I've never seen this and if any of my friends did this I'm pretty sure everyone else would be amazed at that behavior.

[Scout]

211. so we women are just fucking liars then, that's what you're saying.

"I'm a man, I've never seen this. It must not happen. Shut up bitches."

[JonQ]

212. Yep, that's exactly what I said

you are in no way misinterpreting or overreacting to my comment. Your reading comprehension skills need no improvement whatsoever.

[eShirl]

220. unless they are cloistered, yes.

[ddeclue]

124. I think it is just very rare in ANYONE's case these days because we aren't cavemen anymore.

[seabeyond]

127. but you are wrong. and you are right, lol. how about that

yes it is happening today. no we arent cavepeople anymore. unfortunately there has been a movement last handful of years to promote exactly the caveman mentality. so though it shouldnt be, and many guys know and understand and are not this.... too many are buying into "dna, biology, instinct, caveman, what a man does"

[ddeclue]

129. I guess I just don't hang out with cavemen...not cat calling so easy a caveman could stop doing it.

:P

[seabeyond]

145. and it could be true. my husband doesnt. he is/was clueless

but it is not his world.

he is amazed adn surprised as shit when i tell him what some posters on du post, how they think. he thought it a huge joke. my oldest son comes to me, telling me about his peers at school and how they talk about females. he was amazed. my hubby sits with mouth open listening to what son says. cannot believe it. does not sink in. he is watching what his nieces experiences and pisses him off so, disgusts him.

i dont hang with that male either. that is why i KNOW it is not all males. before the crowd on du, i really did not know men were still like this.

[ieoeja]

186. You just gave the answer. You don't hang out with cavemen.

Neither do I. As such I have only witnessed it a handful of times in my life. And it never ceases to astonish me.

I'm guessing the targets of the cat-calling don't hang out with cavemen either. But it is all about being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The wrong place is anyplace the cavemen are.

The wrong time is anytime the target is there alone.

It goes without saying that the target will be there each and every time the target is there thus maximizing her opportunities for witnessing this first hand. Conversely, we can only witness it when we are there at the same time the target is. Yet our being there decreases the odds of it happening as they are less likely to do this if a strange man is there (they know most men don't approve and might just knock one of them upside the head). For instance, I have only witnessed this ONCE by construction workers in downtown Chicago. All the other times have been in neighborhoods where bad behavior had taken over the streets.

So to repeat what the women here have said, maybe you should listen to them. They are there far more often than you or I can possibly be.

[redqueen]

190. I've experienced it when I was with a group of friends.

They had all sorts of ugly things to say to 'express their appreciation'.

So you don't even have to be alone to be a target.

[JonQ]

238. A "movement in the last handful of years"?

What movement was that?

[LanternWaste]

140. I've witnessed it quite often (also a 43 year old male).

I've witnessed it quite often (also a 43 year old male). So I see the article in the OP less a broad brush, and more an indicator that many people still have quite a bit of evolution to undergo.

[Arugula Latte]

154. Gee, maybe you haven't seen it because you're a man.

I'd say it has happened to me a couple dozen times in my life -- usually when I was walking alone.

BTW, I am also 43.

[ddeclue]

157. Gee and I work in a highly male centric workplace so you'd think I'd see a co-worker cat-calling

sooner or later...

:crazy:

[Arugula Latte]

183. And your workplace is the only place that could potentially be the source of catcalls?

Do men think we're making this stuff up? I've lived it many times. I've also been groped by men in public -- once when I was 12 and in a crowd at a concert.

There was a thread a year or so back when female DUers were talking about all the experiences like this that had happened to them -- and worse. It was stunning to see the extent of it.

[ddeclue]

193. No of course not but you are speaking in anecdotal terms and I'm pointing out my own anecdotal

experience runs entirely contrary to your own claims.

Do a statistical study that is repeatable - otherwise this is just anecdotal male bashing with an overly broad brush.

[JonQ]

192. Couldn't that logic be used to smear any group?

Far too many of X engage in Y behavior. You don't need to come up with statistics then to back such an argument and you can successfully insinuate that most Xers are doing this.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

216. Just ask ACORN...

[eShirl]

121. true, but the vast majority of women have experienced this behavior

from a small minority of men

[Scout]

210. NO one said they did.

the question was "Why Do Men Catcall?"

if you don't catcall, then it's not about you is it?

if the "majority" of men don't catcall, then it's not about them, is it.

the question is about the men who DO catcall.... WHY DO THEY DO IT?

IT'S NOT ALWAYS ABOUT YOU

[JonQ]

218. I'm pretty sure a post

with "why do women X" with x being some obnoxious habit and with no qualifiers added (like why do some women do this) would generate alot of anger from the ladies around here.

[tonysam]

107. It is disgusting and rude

and only shows how much contempt men who do this have for women.

I have ALWAYS despised this, even when young. I felt like I had no freedom to go where I wanted, to do what I wanted, without being molested in this fashion.

[Xithras]

134. Because it works?

Never did it myself, but was with plenty of friends who did. Every one of them got laid at least once when a woman responded to it. Most more than once.

There are a lot of women out there who aren't interested in anything more than a hot night spent with a good looking guy, and those types can often be attracted by catcalls. It works.

The trick, of course, is that you have to be a young, fit, good looking guy to pull it off. Those half-bald 45 year old construction workers with the potbelly catcalling every woman who walks by? Nevergunnahappen. Those guys are simply in denial.

[muriel_volestrangler]

137. On a tangent: when did the meaning of 'catcall' change completely?

The dictionaries haven't caught up with this change, but load of DUers seem comfortable with the new meaning that is 180 degrees away from the old one:

Oxford Dictionary:
noun a shrill whistle or shout of mockery or disapproval.
verb make a catcall.

Chambers Dictionary:
noun a long shrill whistle expressing disagreement or disapproval. verb, tr & intr to whistle at someone in this way.

Merriam-Webster:
1 : a loud or raucous cry made especially to express disapproval (as at a sports event)
2 : a derisive remark : criticism

What this article is talking about are 'wolf whistles', or sexist shouts and remarks.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wolf+whistle
http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/features/chref/chref.py/main?query=wolf+whistle&title=21st
http://www.askoxford.com/results/?view=dict&freesearch=wolf+whistle&branch=13842570&textsearchtype=exact

[DireStrike]

204. Good question, and I wasn't aware of this particular case.

I'm 25 now and I've only ever heard the newly accepted definition.

Some errors just replicate themselves, I suppose, as they hit some snag in the general consciousness which creates a stronger association with the new meaning than the old one.

[muriel_volestrangler]

215. Seems a fairly recent American usage

which Merriam-Webster, or those other 2 (British) online dictionaries I quoted, haven't caught up with yet. I (I'm British) would still think of a catcall as being associated with booing.

The update to the Oxfrod English Dictionary has:

DRAFT ADDITIONS MARCH 2007


catcall, n.

orig. U.S. A whistle, cry, or suggestive comment intended to express sexual attraction or admiration (but usually regarded as an annoyance), typically made by a man to a female passer-by. Cf. WOLF-WHISTLE n.

But they've followed that back to 1956: Charleroi (Pa.) Mail 4 Apr. 7/1 The catcalls and approving whistles brought her back to the present and she stood in the center aisle and gave them a gay smile.

The original use dates from 1659, in Samuel Pepys' diary - "A squeaking instrument, or kind of whistle, used esp. in play-houses to express impatience or disapprobation. ", and from that it developed into just the sound made by a person.

[bertman]

138. I think y'all have about covered it, so I'll just keep my big mouth shut.

B-)

[Fumesucker]

142. "Men" don't catcall.. A relative few do..

When you use a broad brush you get paint all over everything, including yourself.

I worked construction for over thirty years and never once made that sort of stupid display to a woman.

[Brickbat]

144. Without reading any of the responses, I'll say "Because they can."

That's about it.

[TrogL]

168. Is it only an American thing?

I've never heard it here, ever, and due to a variety of circumstances (climate, economics) the city is almost permanently under construction.

[Taverner]

170. No idea why they do it, but I can make some guesses

Peer pressure - each guy trying to outdo the other
Some kind of illusion of anonymity
I really don't think it has much to do with sex, and probably doesn't have anything to do with dehumanizing women... its hard to dehumanize someone who might as well be a picture or a robot...

[seabeyond]

171. didnt you just define the dehumanization, lol. no more than a picture or robot

certainly not a human walking down the street, lol.

that last sentence was sarcastic, right?

[Taverner]

179. No I'm just sick and not communicating clearly

Yeah, what you said....

[seabeyond]

180. lol. i am sorry you are sick. hope you feel better

soon

[redqueen]

176. "its hard to dehumanize someone who might as well be a picture or a robot"

It has everything to do with dehumanizing women, actually.

[randr]

173. It is in our jeans!

[seabeyond]

175. so you are powerless and penis has total control over you? that is really the statement you

are making.

since ALL men have a penis, is this true for ALL men?

on to a different point. embarrassing, harrassing a female does WHAT for your penis?

[randr]

219. While I am not a male who indulges in such behavior

I do think those men who do make such gestures do so more for their male companions than directly to a female target.
Much like the display of antler size is to impress other males among some species.
I might add that I have witnessed women who did not see such displays as harassment. To the contrary I have witnessed women encouraging such behavior.

[seabeyond]

221. so it really isnt about the penis, it is really about insecurity about their masculinity?. nt

[randr]

223. To a large extent

Men that work around "cat callers" generally assume these guys are not getting any.
The most obnoxious woman harasser is usually the guy that strikes out the most.

[seabeyond]

224. i think so too randr. thanks for your post.

and those women that need it for validation of their sexuality, well, they are about int he same boat as the guys.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

181. lol @ "jeans"

[Lydia Leftcoast]

182. Not a gentleman, but I've lived long enough to notice two things:

1. Men do this ONLY in groups. I've never been cat-called by a lone man. It is a way of showing off to one another.

2. Getting any reaction from the woman, including anger, is considered a "win." If you can't actually deck the guy, your mother's advice is correct: Just ignore them and look bored, because then YOU "win."

[SIMPLYB1980]

185. Anger is not a win it's a loss, I assure you guys see it this way.

If a cat call fails he get's ragged on by his buddies. What we are looking for is a woman that cat calls back, now that is a win!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

231. I've seen men laugh together and high five if a woman gets angry at a cat call

Either way, it's stupid and immature.

[lumberjack_jeff]

196. Weigh in? Who are we to argue with the lady professor.

She's got "men" all figured out. :eyes:

[LanternWaste]

203. Much like many posters...

"She's got "men" all figured out..."

Much like many posters believe they have the author all figured out I imagine.

[TexasObserver]

198. Cat calls are made by men without confidence.

It's a group phenomenon, where the members of the group gain courage by the presence of other adolescent males in the pack.


A confident male would approach the woman directly, one on one, with something interesting, entertaining, or witty to say, and it wouldn't be a commentary on her body parts or what he might do with them. He and she might understand there is a "body parts" subtext that is unspoken in the encounter, but that's just animals sniffing each other upon meeting.


Cat calls are made by losers, pure and simple.

[TK421]

199. I don't do it myself, but I suspect it's some kind of macho test

one guy does it, the others are expected to

[DireStrike]

200. Desperation. Possibly also evolutionary disposition.

10000 failures and one success is a very effective tactic from an evolutionary standpoint.

[proteus_lives]

205. I think it comes down to group-think.

There is the social-sexual angle most of the time. I've seen groups of men do it and less often groups of women do it. Hell, I've even catcalled by several gay men. (weird experience) I've never seen a lone person do it. People seek approval of their group and they want to reinforce their own egos and self-worth.

I've never done it because it's rude. I don't want people shouting at me so I'm not going to do it anyone else.

Plus, it does make women feel uncomfortable. Most of the time they are more vulnerable then men and this behavior could be the prelude to an attack.

There is nothing wrong with noticing a pretty lady walking past you but real men keep to themselves or if the situation is apprioate, they walk up and try to start a conversation.

Another reason it sucks is because it can ruin a nice encounter you can have. When a women looks at and gives you a smile, that's great! It puts a spring in your step and makes you puff out your chest a little. I imagine it's the same for women when it's done it the correct and polite manner.

[bridgit]

207. Roseanne Barr, "Men can read maps better than women. Cause only the male mind could conceive...

"...of one inch equalling a hundred miles."

[Puzzler]

208. The catcalls are really for their friends to hear...

... it simply means:

"I'm not gay"

[spanone]

209. i'm a guy and i've never witnessed it. they refer to 'many men'.. i doubt it.

i don't live in the city, maybe that's where it occurs....seems pretty rude to moi

[LWolf]

233. It was a regular circumstance of my life, age 12-35ish.

And a relief when I got too old to be worth it to them.

[SIMPLYB1980]

213. Time to lock this to mods.

IBLT

[SoCalDem]

217. Insecure men do it to impress their male friends, and to "prove"

they can make an anonymous woman feel uncomfortable :(

[flvegan]

222. The Aristocrats!!

[Kievan Rus]

227. My best friend gets this all the time

My best friend is a woman...a very beautiful one. She has to deal with catcalls all the time and hates it. She's also told me that guys that are old enough to be her dad have hit on her a few times.

[SmileyRose]

228. Being one of the unfortunate fugly people myself

I would not mind getting a 2nd look just once in my life. Catcall maybe not.

[debbierlus]

234. The men here are cracking me up. I've never seen it!

This speaks well of you and the people around you, however, the reason that you haven't seen it is mainly because you are a man.

Believe me, it goes on. And, as much as it pisses me off when men do it to me, it really pisses me off when they do it to my 14 year old daughter.

I don't know why people are suprised at this behavior considering porn is the biggest industry on the web and women are constantly placed as sexual objects in the media. Why is cat calling surprising in the least?

[Scout]

236. +1000 n/t

[redqueen]

237. Thank you.

:yourock:

[JonQ]

239. It's odd

allegedly this is very common, with a great many men doing it and always in groups (so there's no way you could hide such behavior from your male friends). And yet no man has seen it, because obviously a man would be unaware of it going on.

Seems contradictory: most men do this, and they all do it in large groups of other men, but men can't be expected to have noticed it going on because . . . ?

That's like saying women wouldn't notice how much women like to gossip, because they all do it and they do it around other women. Huh?