Some Swine Flu info from my Doctor today.

[Raven]

Went for my regular visit and my Doc said that I am not a priority for the shot. I am 63. He said that the Swine Flu has many of the characteristics of a flu that was around in the 70's and that people my age have built up an immunity because of that. I can get the shot in November if I want it but he said he didn't think it was necessary. He gave me the regular flu shot today.

[tabatha]

1. Yeah, common sense.

Not everyone SHOULD get the shot.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

7. Who has said that everyone should get the shot?

[tabatha]

12. Someone was ranting on DU the other night saying that

he hopes the people who do not get the flu shot, get swine flu.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

14. Okay so just some random poster.

[tabatha]

26. Nope, actually one who posts often.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

29. A random poster that posts here often and likely has no input in public health.

[MrMickeysMom]

20. Yeah, that was stupid...

I'm inclined to believe the people who study these things, and they seem to agree with this doctor.

[seabeyond]

13. there were a couple or more saying if you dont get the shot, then causing death of those

that cant get. herd mentality. and shame on you. our greater responsibility

yes

it has been said on du

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

15. Herd immunity is important but those over 52 may have some immunity.

That's why they aren't their normal high priority.

[seabeyond]

36. so are you suggesting we should all get the shot to protect those vulnerable or unable to get shot?

:)

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

37. From a public health stand point yes that would be ideal.

Since there isn't enough vaccine to go around though, we have basically triaged the rollout and dispensing of the vaccine. I personally don't care who gets the vaccination. From a public health standpoint though, more people immunized will result in fewer people with the virus that hopefully will result in fewer exposures to those with underlying problems or comorbidity issues that prevent them from getting the vaccine.

[seabeyond]

39. but as you say, reality is there are not enough vaccs, so really those with top priority

should be getting them, before all the rest of us, otherwise we are being .... selfish. and it really is shortsighted to call people names and accuse them of murder if they dont get the vacc that isnt available.

it is not even in my area yet. supposedly 7 more days, adn that is with an inside connection. h1n1 is already been here and has been for a while.

ah well, all those immune thru nature

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

40. I can only speak for myself and I haven't accused anyone of murder.

I may have called a few people irresponsible for posting false information in regards to vaccines. Making exaggerated, over the top accusations is common place here. Gun owners are called gun proliferators and told that they have blood on their hands. It's the way of the internet it would seem.

David

[seabeyond]

44. i hear ya. but it has been a couple threads that you have said, people arent saying

and people are saying. but i know you werent sayin, grinnin

[valerief]

2. Don't you then have immunity to regular flus, too? nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Changes year to year

but this critter has at the genetic level some elements that the 1968 flu in particular match... not full, but enough to offer some immunity.

Remember, the 1976 did NOT become a pandemic, and thank the US Army for that

[Blue_In_AK]

3. I had heard that, too,

which is one of the reasons why I'm not getting it either - although I never get a flu shot, in any event. But in this case, I think the younger people might need it more.

[gleaner]

4. Thanks for posting this ....

My doctor had some reservations about the swine flu vaccine and was hesitant to give it. I don't mind that so much. I am 62 and in the same category as you, but I can't find regular flu vaccine. Here the pharmacies bought it all up before many of the doctors could order it, mine being one of them. So I am still searching for some regular flu vaccine. The pharmacies are all sold out and my county health department says there may not be any more until November. I'll keep canvassing, but I have MS and if I get the flu, I generally get pneumonia.

[Ilsa]

5. I have a question about that: doesn't immunity wear down after that much time,

decades, I mean? 30+ years is a long time to expect the immune system to "remember" a particular virus or variant of it.

[northernlights]

10. it varies by disease

For some diseases, immunity lasts only a few months, some for years, and some for a lifetime.

[SpiralHawk]

6. Stuff a stinkin sock with garlic and...

wear it around your neck. It will keep all kindsa stuff away. Fer sure.

[neverforget]

34. especially vampires

[JSK]

8. If you were alive in 1957

There is a good chance you have an immunity.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

17. Actually if you were a school aged child from 1947-1957 you probably have some immunity.

If you got the flu between 1947-1957, there is a strong probability that have some immunity.

[Lugnut]

33. I had just about every childhood illness out there at that time.

You name it, I probably caught it. I've had the flu once and I've never had a flu shot. Now that I'm 64 I'm not in the high risk group for H1N1.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

42. Total cases are very low in your age group.

You probably have some immunity from the flus from 47 to 57 even if you didn't get the flu then.

[MrMickeysMom]

21. If you've not been given many flu shots and haven't really had the flu much

I see no reason to disagree

I recall "usual childhood diseases', which used to be a part of a history and physical, as something from the past that makes some of us immune.

[Robyn66]

9. I kind of freaked out when my doc's office told me I was HIGH RISK!

I called to ask about the flu shot and talk about whether or not I should bother, and they told me I was already "on the list" because I was high risk. I am assuming its because of my allergy induced asthma. I don't know if its because I had cancer last year. THAT is all gone but the asthma is still around. But it really freaked me out because I didn't survive cancer to die of the freaking FLU! They also strongly suggested I get the kids shots.

[MrMickeysMom]

22. Probably this is right...

... but monitor your peak flows and keep a script for inhaled steroids, so you're in control of the asthma, I say.

[Dappleganger]

23. Don't freak out.

I as well as all of our kids (4) have asthma and we're going through swine flu right now. Stay on top of your inhaler treatments (be proactive, in other words) and you should be fine.

[dysfunctional press]

30. i'm 48, with an auto-immune disorder, and diminished lung function- so i'm high risk as well.

i'm hoping to get the shot on monday at a free immunization by the county health department at a local high school- i just hope that there's no big panic before then that causes huge throngs of people to show up- it's their first of so far 6 scheduled days, with 3-4 locations on each day. they start monday, and go 1-2 times a week thru mid november. so far.

[amborin]

11. true....though those over 65 who develop complications are most

threatened by the complications

also, the CDC is denying, but investigating, Canadian reports that getting the regular flu vaccine makes one slightly more susceptible to contracting h1n1

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

18. Actually no, 25-50 year olds are the most threatened by complications.

[amborin]

19. that's not what CDC says:

"•Early empiric treatment with oseltamivir or zanamivir should be considered for persons with suspected or confirmed influenza who are at higher risk for complications including:

◦Children younger than 2 years old;
◦Persons aged 65 years or older;
◦Pregnant women and women up to 2 weeks postpartum (including following pregnancy loss);
◦Persons of any age with certain chronic medical or immunosuppressive conditions (see page 3); and,
◦Persons younger than 19 years of age who are receiving long-term aspirin therapy.

<http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/recommendations.htm>

and this:

Persons 65 years and older are less likely to become ill with 2009 H1N1 influenza compared to younger persons. However, when persons aged 65 years or older acquire influenza, they are at higher risk for severe influenza-related complications.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

24. Of those hospitalized 25-50 yos had the highest rate of death.

That's what I was trying to say sorry if I didn't make it clear.

[amborin]

27. the story

is not totally clear

you say:

"of those hospitalized"

25-50 yr olds had the highest rate of death

But: where did you get that statistic from, and how was it calculated?

as it stands now, younger people are more likely to be hospitalized, because they are more likely to have contracted h1n1 in the first place

so, if the 65+ don't yet have the higher death rate in hospital, it may simply be because fewer 65+ are in hospital, because fewer caught it

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

28. It's from the CDC I posted it here often.

Far fewer of that age group were hospitalized but of those a greater percentage died. I'll see if I can't find it tomorrow, I think I have it on a PP slide at work.

[amborin]

32. i'm curious

thanks

so, you are saying that fewer 65+ were hospitalized, but of those who were hospitalized, a greater percentage died?

that dovetails with the cdc link....which says that age group suffers more severe complications, if they get it and develop same

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

41. That was a huge pain in the ass. Here it is though.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/recs/acip/downloads/mtg-slides-jul09-flu/02-Flu-Fiore.pdf

I was specifically referring to slides 6, 7, 10, 11 and 17. You can see how disproportionate the deaths are in the 25-49 year old age group. This article does say that older adult are more likely to die as a percentage of total cases, but obviously of those hospitalized the 25-49 year old age group has the highest death rate. So my initial statement was likely incorrect and for that I apologize. As you can see though there is a very significant risk among the 25-49 year olds and if they get sick enough to be hospitalized then they are actually at greater risk. I do realize that this information is from 4/09 to 7/09. I gave my presentation over a month ago so things may have changed. Anyhow there is some good stuff in there.


David

[amborin]

45. thank you very much! it's very informative! much appreciated!

i realize it was a pain to dig all this up and it's very much appreciated!

as you said, the 25-49 are at high risk and also have disproportionate deaths ....but isn't this because they are more likely to get it, as they have no immunity w/o a vaccine/

it's still confusing...

the slides confirm what the other cdc website seemed to say, which is that, the 65+ are least likely to contract h1n1, since those over 57 may have some immunity if they contracted other flus over their lifetimes; and therefore 65+ are least likely to be hosptalized for it; however, if hospitalized, they have the highest death rate per hospitalized case. p. 19 says this : "fewest cases, but highest fatality"

so if a 65+ gets it, it's a potentially much worse situation than if a younger individual gets it, no?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

46. It is confusing.

I would agree in comparison of total cases vs. total deaths then the elderly are more at risk. In terms of patients that are hospitalized vs. total deaths then 25-49 yo's are more at risk. The very low numbers of elderly patients and higher prevalence of pre-existing conditions in those patients is one of the things that is so worrisome about the deaths in the 25-49 yo age group. An infection of any type could be fatal for the elderly patients with pre-existing conditions. To see the high rate of death in 25-49 yo's is something rarely seen, at least since 1918-1920. I'm glad the information helped. Please deduce what you can from it and remember I'm a Fire Medic and not a statistician, so take my conclusions with the appropriate grain of salt.

David

[MrMickeysMom]

25. So, the difference would be "typical" flu with the over 65 age group-

I couldn't argue with that.

[amborin]

31. jama article says those 60+ may not develop fever with h1n1

and the lack of fever may lead to their not being tested, which in turn can lead to the conclusion that those 65+ are less likely to contract it

[lonestarnot]

35. I asked about the allergic to eggs thing yesterday, and the doc told me that if allergic no can take

:shrug:

[gkhouston]

38. That's true, sad to say. I've heard they're working on growing vaccines in

other ways, but apparently it's a slower process.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

43. I always heard it depended on how allergic you were to them.

I'll have to check into that.