FBI to man who was placed on No Fly List: "We know you've converted to Islam, tell us about that."

[ck4829]

Raymond Earl Knaeble IV said that when he presented his U.S. passport at the airport in Bogota, Colombia, for a flight to Miami last month, "They came back and told me, 'You can't fly with any airlines to the USA.' "

Knaeble, 29, a California-born military contractor scheduled to start a job in Texas that week, said the airline sent him to the U.S. Embassy to straighten things out. There, he said, an FBI agent questioned him about his recent conversion to Islam and a trip to Yemen, where he had spent three months studying Arabic.

"He said, 'I can't give you back your passport,' " Knaeble said. That was almost three weeks ago, and Knaeble says no one has told him why.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/01/AR2010040103909.html

What is creepier about this? The fact that this man is on the no fly list and doesn't know why, that he can't return home, or that the government knows he's made a change in religions?

[jody]

1. In spite of all the Hope & Change, things remain the same. n/t

[uponit7771]

12. Yeah, it's all Obama's fault

[jody]

19. Obama is president. Everything that happens in the executive branch is his responsibility. n/t

[Laughing Mirror]

2. and "the lists are likely to continue to grow"

Welcome to the United States of Insecurity, with freedom of religion for all.

[Freddie Stubbs]

3. It would appear that his trip to Yemen aroused suspicion

[immoderate]

6. Not to mention punishment for said suspicion.

--imm

[Mithreal]

8. -1 Consistently defending the powerful against the powerless.

[Rage for Order]

14. You're the one defending a military contractor

aka "mercenary". You have an awful lot of sympathy for said mercenary. is there something you'd like to share with us?

[tblue37]

18. When the basic rights of any individual are denied by the US

government, that means that the government has the power to deny the same rights of any other individual.

I hate the idea of mercenaries, too, but he is a US citizen whose rights have been denied without due process. If you want those rights to be there for you and yours, then you can't say it's okay to deny them arbitrarily just because you hate what someone does for a living.

The rule of law cannot be arbitrary. If it is, it is not the rule of law.

[OnyxCollie]

30. Military contractor does not equal "mercenary."

Please show where either person mentioned in the story provided security.

[Mithreal]

48. Really? That's the best you've got?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

4. "The Land of the Free and Home of the Brave" and other comic sketches.

Eeeek!!

[KG]

5. guess that 'hopey-changey' thing isn't working out for him.

[rcrush]

7. USA USA

[kas125]

9. As someone who was on "a list" made by CIA director

Hayden for no reason other than starting a thread on DU, I find this disturbing.

[jeanpalmer]

11. Really?

What were the circumstances? What was the thread about. Just curious. Wouldn't surprise me. We're probably all enemy combatants for posting here.

[kas125]

45. Yep, really. I had my congressman write to them to find

why. Their answer was a lie, it said that 'with my history of disrupting public events, they had every expectation that I'd do the same again.' Only, at the time, I'd NEVER disrupted anything, never done any more than march in parades, stand on a corner on Saturday afternoons, and attend some rallies and marches. I'd just come from DC where I'd met with my congressman and both senators to discuss the war and we were given VIP treatment there. We got a private tour, got to go in and watch them voting on the floor, rode the little tram in the basement basement that's supposed to be for staff and members, etc. NO disrupting. I truly, truly believe that it was because they read that thread here and he didn't want to discuss the 4th amendment and probable cause in public.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2183321

[Citizen Worker]

10. Land of the free, home of the brave?

More appropriately the good ol' US of A should be referred to as the star spangled curtain.

[Echo In Light]

13. Home of the tragically disinformed & brainwashed

[Rage for Order]

16. He spent 3 months in Yemen "studying Arabic"

What could go wrong? He couldn't find a course in Arabic at a local community college? He had to fly to Yemen to study Arabic? Yeah, that's not suspicious at all.

:eyes:

[Echo In Light]

20. Correct, not at all

[Rage for Order]

21. Fortunately, you're not in charge of security

As your response reveals your naivete

[Echo In Light]

22. Phony war. Deal with it.

[Rage for Order]

23. Our Democratic president doesnt think so

And neither do our Democratic House or Senate.

But I'm sure you're right and they're all wrong. Nobody in the world wants to harm America; it's all make believe.

:dunce:

[protocol rv]

34. it is a human rights abuse by the US government

Whether it's inspired by Republicans and then maintained by the Democrats, or whatever, it is still a human rights abuse. Of course people want to attack the USA. Osama bin Laden has told you quite often he's after you, and he lists the reasons, so you can understand why you are under attack. This, however, doesn't justify US human rights abuses.

I know this will sound harsh, but it seems to me people who support US government human rights abuses are cowards. They can't face the possibility that 10 thousand Americans may die each year, paying this price to make sure you, as individuals, are free of human rights abuses by your government. Yet you are very willing to see many Americans die each year on the roads because you want to drive at 70 mph, and you see thousands die because you want to have the right to own guns.

You see, I happen to be a non American, but I am also fully aware of the fact that human rights abuses are common, and governments do abuse their power. Which means I'm not opposed to your driving at 70 mph, and I think you should keep your right to own guns. But I also think you should take that yellow paint off your back, and tell your government to go to hell when they want to protect you so much by violating a citizen's rights. And this means if the man wants to be a Muslim, grow a beard, and go to Yemen, that is his damn right.

And if you want to take it away, then you're just another coward who is willing to give up his freedom, curl up, put your thumb in your mouth, so that your daddy government can protect you.

[muriel_volestrangler]

41. Fine; strip search him, open all his luggage, but let him come home

If he's a security risk, then do a thorough security job. This FBI activity has cost him his new job. He's stuck in a Colombian hotel, the FBI have taken his passport away so that he can't go anywhere, and his life is now a disaster although they have not shown he has done anything wrong at all/

[Raineyb]

43. Strip search? On what grounds? Flying while a convert to Islam? n/t

[muriel_volestrangler]

44. I'd rather be strip searched than lose my job and right to return home

No, there isn't actually any justification for a strip search either; but if the FBI is trying to justify this by saying it's about security, then they should do their fucking job and search him, not screw his whole life up.

[Raineyb]

47. The FBI has to have grounds. Obviously they don't have any or they'd have searched him. This is a

clearly a blatant abuse of power, probably evidence that this man was eavesdropped on, and complete bullshit. He should sue the shit out of them when he eventually returns home. (And as he's a natural born citizen they have to let him go home. They can't strand him in a foreign country without his passport indefinitely.)

[Raineyb]

39. Unfortunately, the people in charge of security have YOUR idiotic mindset.

Punishment based on suspicion, trapping citizens in foreign countries, the government spying and asking about changes in religion? Yeah that's what we should be about.

:sarcasm:

Your authoritarian slip is showing.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rage for Order]

28. He's also a mercenary

Which means his services are available to the highest bidder. Or did you miss that part of the article?

"Knaeble, 29, a California-born military contractor..."

Pay attention, there will be a quiz later.

[OnyxCollie]

33. KBR, Bechtel, Parsons, Raytheon- all mercenaries.

Who knew?:eyes:

[OnyxCollie]

35. Iraq DOD Contractor Personnel by Type of Service Provided.

[14thColony]

42. But apparently you'll be an idiot now

I work for a company on a contract to the DoD. Therefore I can rightly be called a 'military contractor', just like him. So I'm a mercenary too? There are real mercenaries out there, I've seen them. But not everyone who works for a company that the US DoD contracts to do something is a mercenary, no matter how much you want it to be true.

[muriel_volestrangler]

46. He was a driver in Kuwait

He converted to Islam about a year ago, after working in Kuwait for three years as a driver

Or did you miss that part of the article?

Pay attention, there will be a quiz later. :eyes:

[protocol rv]

31. Seems to me it's a US government abuse of human rights

if the man went to study Arabic in Yemen, that is his business. If the US is worried about the man being a terrorist, then they can put him under observation when he arrives in the USA. But it's evident this is a serious case of human rights abuse by the US government. Which is well known to be a serial human rights abuser. They joined the dark side of the force a long time ago, and became evil doers.

[Rage for Order]

32. Okay, George W Bush

"Evil doers"

:rofl:

[protocol rv]

36. Liked it? It was meant that way

I thought you would get the point. As it turns out, the use of the term "evil doers" by Bush was a role reversal. Bush was the evil one. Or do you really think there were WMD in Iraq? Do you support torture?

[treestar]

49. He said it was cheap

to live there. And studying a foreign language where it is spoken is a value. He's a US citizen and has the complete right to enter the U.S. The government has no power to keep a US citizen outside of the US like that.

Weird that they are paying his expenses to stay there. But he has a right to travel to the US by boat, train, bus, on foot, car, or any airline that will take him.

FBI overreaching IMO.

[Toots]

15. Still some of the Bush* doctrine hold over I guess

If somehow you may do something down the road we will put a stop to you right now instead of waiting until you actually commit a crime..A thought crime...We think, you think so you will be punished..

[treestar]

17. He's a U.S. citizen

He could be deported from Colombia. There is no right to keep him out of the U.S.

If they don't want him to fly, that's one thing - but the have no right to keep his passport or keep him out of the U.S. if he drove or took a bus.

[muriel_volestrangler]

40. Yeah, confiscating his passport sounds illegal

Without it, he can't even travel overland to any other country, or by air on non-US flights to other countries. And the Colombians may insist he leaves if he has a visa that runs out. They may even insist on being able to see the passport inside the country as a form of ID card - I don't know.

They've lost him his job too:

Knaeble is paying $50 a night for a Bogota hotel. The FBI has given him $500 to cover expenses, but he said he feels trapped.

"I don't understand, what did I do? Why can't I go back to the USA?" He has lost his job, he said, and some of his faith in the government he served in the military.

If the government were trying as hard as that to ruin my whole life for my choice of religion, I'd lose all faith in it.

[Renew Deal]

26. Wow

I guess the gov't really is paying attention to this stuff. Traveling to Yemen through Colombia set off alarms. hmmm.

[Heidi]

29. Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours.

So I'll kick it with my whole heart.
:kick:

:kick:

:kick:

[progressoid]

37. I got that same error.

:kick:

[Octafish]

38. ''We know you are a communist. Tell us about that.''

That FBI smear helped keep the Cold War going for 50 years.

Who knows how long the secret government can keep their latest Big Lie going.