When will the Pope quit? I figure early June.

[CK_John]

Do you thing he'll be forced out or do you care?

[CountAllVotes]

1. I don't think he will "quit"

I think he'll fall ill or something along these lines and will no longer be able to serve as the pope. :tinfoilhat: ...

:dem:

[Mz Pip]

2. He won't quit.

Being pope is kind of like being a king. You're in it for life regardless of what you do.

[ZeitgeistObserver]

3. The pope isn't going to quit.

Nor will he be forced out.

[JackDragna]

4. I'd be shocked if he quit.

I'm no expert on internal Vatican politics, but based on his career so far, the Pope seems a very determined person who has very entrenched opinions about how the Church should operate. Unless there's a worldwide push by Catholics for the Pope to specifically be held accountable for covering up sex crimes, I don't think anything will cause him to resign.

[wake.up.america]

14. I'm no expert, but I would have to agree with JackDragna.

The Pope does not gauge popular opinion. He is strong-willed, feels as if he has done nothing wrong. His primary call in life is to protect the Church.

As Archbishop of München - Freising, 1978 - 1982, Ratzinger showed little willingness to comply or even confer with dissenters of which there were many.

[postulater]

5. I'm praying to Jesus for that but I think the Supreme Court is going to pardon him. n/t

[spanone]

6. popes don't quit, they're infallible (according to the church)

[wake.up.america]

17. Here are a few popes who resigned:

Here are a few popes who resigned:

Pope Benedict IX in 1045: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02429a.h…

Pope Gregory VI in 1046: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06791a.h…

Pope St. Celestine V in 1294: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03479b.h…

Pope Gregory XII in 1415: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07001a.h…

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01031a.h…

[LiberalFighter]

37. Why did they resign?

That was also back in the days when the forces were different.

It was also a period when the world was much smaller.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

38. actually, the world was the same size, although

some scientists believe that we are constantly bombarded by mini ice cube bits and actually add water to our atmosphere. In fact, one guy developed a communications system bouncing off microwaves off of the blast's remnants, when the ice cubes hit the atmosphere.

Oh, wait. You were talking about people. Well, church policy enforced idiotic policies and caused millions upon millions of deaths. THAT made the world a bit smaller.

[AngryOldDem]

68. They're infallible only on matters of faith and morals.

It's become a stubborn point of pride to hang on in the face of common sense and decency.

[NNN0LHI]

7. He won't quit but I bet he has several full time food testers

[Iggo]

8. Never.

And, forced out by whom?

[Warpy]

9. Popes don't quit. They have to die in office

While a few have been poisoned out of office, most continue on well into advanced senility, even after strokes and bedridden, as their underlings run the empire.

This pope is actually trying to do something about the mess he inherited from his saintly predecessors, in any case. He's doing the wrong things and he's certainly not doing enough, but at least he's doing something besides promoting bad bishops into the Vatican and away from prosecution.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

15. one pope did quit. The vatican then arrested, tortured, and killed him for

his crime. Pope Celestine the V.

Another pope resigned to solve the "great schism" between the two competing Romes. (the present one, and the eastern one, not to mention the "antichrist") Funny, during this time, the Church had actually relocated FROM Rome to the lovely south of France, Avignon, where the women were wild, the cognac flowed like a river, and the food kicked ass.

[Warpy]

21. I'd remembered the Avignon papacy

but I also remember being taught that it was an illegitimate one from the get-go.

The reasons for trying to establish it under French protection were entirely political.

Both the periods you cited nearly finished the hierarchy off, and that's why popes now have to die in office.

Pity. The Vatican outlived its usefulness a millennium ago.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

26. another actually wrote out a resignation, about 200 yrs ago,

but I forgot the circumstances. Of course, the rumors about Nazi take over of the Vatican included rumors that pope Pius had drafted one, too, to allow the cardinals to pick a successor if he were arrested. But Pius had cut way too many deals with the Nazis to worry about that. Plus, more than a few bishops and cardinals actually cheered as Hitler picked up stray jews as though they were feral dogs.

The church STILL has not fully come clean about WWII.

[CK_John]

16. He will have his Nixon moment when the pressure builds to get out. n/t

[RKP5637]

10. Maybe he should ask Sarah Palin for advice... n/t

[salguine]

11. Has there ever been a pope that wasn't in office until death?

[CK_John]

12. I think so, also there was 2 popes at one time. How it worked out I don't remember.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

24. that would be gregory

there were three people competing, actually, Benedict (what timing, eh?) gregory, and I forget the third guy, often called the AntiChrist.

Benedict was a seriously corrupt greedy bastard. Gregory resigned to give Benedict full authority to be pope, then resign himself.


Papal history reads like Shakespeare. Murder, intrigue, power moves, hell, there was even a female pope who masked her true sex. There were several popes with illegitimate kids, by my count, no less than 6 were murdered by shadowy powers within the Vatican, and at least a few were actively practicing homosexuals.

If you want a good primer, try The Bad Popes, from 1986 or so, by a serious writer named Chamberlain

[ChairmanAgnostic]

19. see above. The answer is absolutely

Celestine, a very pious man, never wanted to be pope, but the cardinal see was so conflicted and corrupt, that they could not find a successor among their own. They finally selected Celestine V, who begged them not to. He proceeded to do little as pope, and almost a year later, perhaps less, he quit.

He left and began his pious wonderings again. The church regrouped, then within a month, sent out armed guards to arrest Celestine on trumped up charges. Apparently, no one resigns from that position without committing a crime. He was imprisoned, tortured, and eventually died, quite probably murdered.

Funny, the reason he rejected the papacy was because of the corruption throughout the church. Those same corrupt cardinals were the ones who had him arrested, etc.

[RKP5637]

28. To me, it's a church of misery, cruelty, indoctrination, domination, intimidation and

'dinosauric' beliefs... in short, wealthy masters of brainwashing the masses IMO.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

29. that's why I study its history. One must know his enemy to defeat it.

[RKP5637]

31. So very very true!!! n/t

[NNN0LHI]

22. Yes

Pontian (230-235)

Marcellinus (296 - 304)

Silverius (536 - 537)

John XVIII (1003 - 1009)

Benedict IX (c. 1012 – c.1085)

Celestine V (1294)

Gregory XII (1406 - 1417)

[ZeitgeistObserver]

27. The early power struggles are long over.

There is no resignation of popes anymore. And the church doesn't consider this a serious matter anyway. A temporary embarrassment they'll easily get through.

This pope may die soon as he's had heart and stroke problems before, but he won't resign. And no one can make him do so.

[sharesunited]

13. No way. Loves his Prada too much.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

18. a popey-changey thing?

[RKP5637]

34. +1, n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. Never

He'll stay.

[get the red out]

23. No, he won't quit

But if the heat turned up enough the Church might have him quietly sent to heaven.

[comrade snarky]

57. He wouldn't be the first pope

Hastened to his "reward" when he becomes a burden.

[get the red out]

71. Certainly not

And an institution that would cover up child rape probably wouldn't have a problem sending a tired old man to his just reward.

[Peregrine Took]

25. I could see him retiring for health reasons as he is an old man and the last

few weeks must be very trying on him. I think it would be for the good of Mother Church for him to leave and a younger more modern man could take over and try to begin to repair some of the incredible damage that has occured.

[CK_John]

30. A woman should be the next Pope and would be more open to reform. n/t

[ZeitgeistObserver]

35. I've never seen 2 moons in the sky.

:hi:

[CTyankee]

45. Oh yes, look for them as the pigs fly past...

[salguine]

32. One of the factors that went into Joey Rats' selection in the first place was that he was

older. John Paul II was on the throne for twenty-six years, and the powers that be at the Vatican decided that that was far too long for one man to be pope, so they made a point not to choose anyone too young or vigorous.

[TorchTheWitch]

47. popes don't resign and health reasons are the last thing in consideration

There's been no resigning for popes for centuries. Like kings, they die in office even if years and years of their reign they're practically incopacitated. For a pope to resign for health reasons when they're still mobile and have their facilties reasonably intact would be an admission of guilt that they shouldn't be the Pope.

Even if a pope wanted to resign they couldn't as the Vatican and the church itself would no longer have control of them. This has been accepted and understood for centuries. The church would NEVER allow resignation. Popes HAVE to die in office to keep the church secrets safe and under the control of the church. The Italian Mafia took this lesson from the church... when you're in, you're in for life whether or not you want to be to ensure the protection and control of the secrets of the organization. Above ALL else the organization must be protected even if that means quitely bumping someone off. Again, the Italian Mafia modeled it's organizational protection on that of the Vatican because it works and has worked for hundreds of years. Interesting that the RCC has a better track record of organizational protection than the Italian Mafia.

I really had to laugh at your reference to "Mother Church"... one of the most strictly patriarchal organizations on earth that utterly excludes woman except at the very lowest of lowly tiers being referred to as "Mother" anything. Sorry, but the irony just really struck me.

[salguine]

33. Seeing as the last pope was John Paul, if I were made pope,

I would choose, as my pope name, Pope George Ringo I.

[Contrary1]

36. Will the Pope do a Palin?

The jokes would write themselves.

[RKP5637]

42. Time for a SNL skit!!! n/t

[havocmom]

39. Quit? With his ego? Oh, he wouldn't miss out on the big Pope Funeral

Of course, he may well watch it from behind an ornamental screen, just before jetting off to a great retirement palace, but I don't see him quitting. Not even for his health. Too much invested in infallibility propaganda and too many egos.

[Toasterlad]

40. The Catholic Church Doesn't DO Responsibility.

The Pope will most certainly not quit. I definitely could see the other members of the oligarchy arranging a little health crisis for him, though.

[nickinSTL]

41. can't see him quitting

he won't do anything that might be seen as admitting the pope might not be infallible, IMO.

I don't know that he could be forced out, and it seems that those in a position to try are just as committed to papal infallibility as he is.

Not really sure what will happen, but it won't be pretty for the catholic church, and all those catholics who still believe the pope is infallible and the ultimate expression of god's authority on earth will have their faith strongly shaken if not destroyed.

However, the mess here may well result in the cardinals actually voting VERY differently after Ratz is gone.

The Vatican has declared him untouchable, or something...I'm assuming that there wouldn't be a country anywhere in the world that would have the guts to arrest him and have him tried for conspiracy in the abuse cases during one of his visits, but that might be interesting...

[Stevenmarc]

43. You should avoid bookmaking as a career path, the only way he's leaving is feet first

[Fearless]

44. I think you're greatly underestimating the blind following...

Of a vast majority of his followers.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

46. all too true, and what a sad statement about humanity.

Even with a 2000 year history of lies, wars, rape, murder, just because they call themselves god's princes, people automatically assign them that role.

[TorchTheWitch]

50. and it's the church that set it up that way

Indoctrination since birth. I always found it incredible that the Catholic church actively discourages it's followers from reading the bible. They don't want you interpreting anything for yourself... anything you want to know about the faith you must ask the church so they can TELL you what's in the bible and what it means. Anything you need to know about any kind of important personal decisions - you must be directed by the church in those decisions. The church will TELL you the correct decision even if that decision is the worst one for you personally. It's ALL about what the CHURCH needs and wants and it's the job of the followers to provide it at church insistance regardless of what that means to to it's followers - the church will tell you it is YOUR cross to bear.

I grew up Catholic and have always been creeped out how the church is more like a cult than a religion. The CHURCH is actually MORE important than the religion. That is really messed up scary.

[rcrush]

48. You mean die?

He'll end up dead from "old age" and everyone will forget because there will be a big pope funeral to watch.

[Arkana]

49. Good lord, it's you again.

So, how are all your other insane predictions working out? The Pope is the Pope for life--he's not going to quit, no matter how hateful he is.

[xultar]

51. I never liked Benny. He seemed to be more of an opportunist professional political hack.

Just sayin. JP seemed more ordained by god.

[keroro gunsou]

52. didn't agree with a lot of what john paul 2

said, but it always seemed to be his heart was in the right place.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

53. er, before you make a saint out of him remember who promoted the Rat

and put him in charge of all sexual abuse cases around the world. Who approved the transfer of many child abusers to non-extradition countries? Who approved his recommendation (the Rat's) that they take an extremely hard line on all civilian authorities? And who permitted the issuing of the 2001 directive that the Church had ultimate control over its priests, and that they should not cooperate with outside authorities, under the risk of excommunication?

That was all the work of JP the twooth. If anything, he is even more responsible for the thousands of sex abuse cases, far more responsible than the Rat. After all, he knowingly promoted the Rat, kept him in place, and supported all the Rat's moves. Having a nice smile and being a good skier really does not answer the mess he created.

[keroro gunsou]

61. i never said he was perfect.

when milwaukee's archbishop got promoted to be the archbishop of NYC, i told my uncle (who is a priest), "the pope may be infallible in matters of church doctrine, but he's got a long way to go in term of human resources."

[malaise]

54. He'll die suddenly

That's my guess.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

62. Given Vatican history, with or without help?

[xchrom]

55. Depends on how difficult the northern hemisphere

Makes life difficult for the Vatican

should a child abuse scandal get out -- say in Africa --
then turn the egg timer.

[NoPasaran]

56. Bookmarked for future ridicule

[comrade snarky]

58. Ratzie retiring is about as likely as

Crocodylus Pontifex

The Space Pope!

[WinkyDink]

59. You're joking, right?

[applegrove]

60. Something needs to happen. The catholic church can't just sit there and not change.

I'd personally rather see some change in the doctrine (birth control, prosecuting paedophiles) than see one cookie cutter pope replaced by another.

[Orsino]

64. Sure it can.

The Church has an awful lot of practice at not changing.

I think that the faithful are generally well inured to rape scandals, and that this latest wave will also be ignored and finally forgotten.

[OmahaBlueDog]

63. This Pope will stay, but this will have a lot of impact on who gets chosen next

Remember that this Pope was chosen with little or no debate. I suspect that the next CoC conclave will have complete, thorough background checks on the top 20 candidates, and will devise some means of getting a check brought in if a none-of-the-above candidate emerges. This won't happen again.

[WeDidIt]

65. He won't quit. He'd rather see his own church destroyed

which is precisely what's happening.

We're watching history in action as a major religion is in its death throes.

[saltpoint]

66. He'll be 83 in two weeks. My guess is that death from old age is more

likely to remove him from office than the political abuse firestorm.

[AngryOldDem]

67. It. Won't. Happen.

When will people learn that the Church is a different breed of institution? How can you expect its leader to resign when the organization as a whole still cannot admit there is a problem, and keeps insisting that IT is the real victim here, and that IT is being slandered?

Benny will retire when he goes toes up. Not a minute sooner.

[Karenina]

69. Marketing suggestion: Broken heart caused by the pressure

of unrelenting persecution by abuse victims' petty gossip, lib'ral media, feminazis and jooz turn his toes up!
Benedict has become a liability to all but the most brainwashed virgins in da boyz club. Conspiracy theory: They're setting him up to take him out!!! :evilgrin:

[arthritisR_US]

70. the pope can't quit before he's dead...that's how "god" does it. n/t