No one is fucking permanently unemployable - RANT

[KillCapitalism]

I was reading a local publication and there was an article on unemployment that really pissed me off. The author was some holier-than-thou "employment consultant." The article states "Workers need to relentlessly update their skills to be competitive in our global economy. Most workers should be able to adapt unless they're laid-off auto workers who are permanently unemployable in this new economy." :mad:

I think I'll send in a letter to this asshole, but I'm not sure what I should say. Maybe DU can help me out with suggestions.

I hate hearing/reading shit like this, no one is permanently unemployable! People with Down's Syndrome are able to hold down jobs, so why not laid-off auto workers?

[zorahopkins]

1. You Might Try This

Here's my suggestion for a reply to this "employment consultant":

Dear "Employment Consultant":

Those who can, work. Those who can't work become "employment consultants".

[Hannah Bell]

31. +100. good example of paying too much for a worthless product.

[tonysam]

2. It's called "passing the buck" and "blaming the victim"

resulting from lousy economic policies of the past 30 years by both political parties which are on the take from those interests benefiting from the "global economy."

[Captain Hilts]

3. Folks here want to keep Insurance Companies afloat for employment. nt

[Cirque du So-What]

4. Union-busting scare tactics

A baldfaced attempt to influence union workers into accepting concessions that would dilute seniority. These 'consultants' want employers to have the ability to reduce the number of classifications of workers in order to make reassignments at the drop of a hat. You didn't mention the name of this 'consultant,' but I'd bet good money that he's well-known in union-busting circles.

[G_j]

5. that is exactly what it sounds like nt

[sandnsea]

6. I think he means the industry

Not the individual. I have stenography skills, but if I was relying on being a stenograhpher for a job, I'd be pretty well permanently unemployable. Just the way it is.

What annoys me is that they can't seem to grasp that people can't give up 10% of their income to eduation, 10% to health care, 10% to social security, 10% to their IRA and life insurance, 40% to their mortgage, and have anything to raise the kids on.

[jody]

7. Hope you're right about "laid-off auto workers" because Detroit needs your optimistic view. n/t

[HereSince1628]

8. My VA social worker thinks I should apply for a disability pension

I'm 56. I have a PhD. After months of cardiac rehab I can go for 45 minutes at a pace the machine says is 14.3 mph, my pulse at rest runs from 51-53 and my blood pressure at rest is about 110-67. Because my sternum isn't healed completely, I've been told to avoid lifting, but I lay with my back on the floor and can curl 15 lb dumbells with no problem. I'm surely at least fit enough for cleaning toilets...

Yet, I have an appointment on Thursday when I have to make a decision about selling off my assets in order to meet the pension requirements.

My point in all this is just this--The folks who are making the decisions both publicly and privately don't agree with you and I.

[alfredo]

12. I didn't have to sell off my assets when I became disabled.

I got SSD, USPS pension, then later I got VA disability due to hearing loss.

[HereSince1628]

58. Did you hold a mortgage for a farm?

Jess vondering.

[2Design]

9. these type of people can not hear and believe if they are employed you can be too n/t

[zbiker]

11. i guess i took a different

approach right out of the gate, rather than depending on someone else for employment, i took a tax rebate check and started myself a business, now the only one that can lay me off is me :), as long as i run my little company well, then i am employed
plus i get the joy of giving my community something they can use. If viewed from this perspective, then no one should be unemployed, find yourself a talent and make a go of it, i did and it worked very well

[2Design]

13. yo if you can do it - everyone can - lol

[zbiker]

14. agreed, i am just a dumb old ranch kid

with no college education, if i can anyone can, trust in yourself and make a jump at it. it can be anything from repairing pocket watches to building bowling balls. start small, do a good job and keep your Witt's about you, you just never know how you might do

[tonysam]

16. It doesn't work for everybody.

In fact, not for the vast majority of people. If there are no jobs for people, they aren't going to have money to spend for your "services."

[zbiker]

23. that would be true

if absolutely everyone was unemployed, many have done just what i am doing and are still getting by just fine. plus their are always attorneys, judges,and other mucky mucks with government jobs still working and they all have needs to be filled, find out what they are and dive right in, you may just be surprised

[laughingliberal]

24. True. My husband has been in business for himself since 1982 and profitable

and considered the very best at what he does. The dump of the housing market pretty much destroyed demand for our services. And he's a little old to master another skill we could turn into a business.

[zbiker]

27. ahhh, one is never to old, in fact

that could easly be an asset if you work it thatway, what are his hobbys, what if anything does he like to read, i know a gentelman here in town that is 87 years old and he started whittling fish from exotic wood only 2 years ago.( yea, i know, it's not up my alley either) he showed his work to the game and fish here and he got such high praise that he is making a shamefull amount of money creating these life like examples and he sells them all over the world :). his grandaughter takes the orders and does all the publicity and such. he just sits on the porch and makes fish ha ha . i think part of his appeal is he is elderly ( the grandpa type) and he does good work ill try to post a link of what he brought in the store to show me.



pay no attention to the date stamp on the pics, i cant set the time on my vcr either ha ha

if these dont show ill try to link to my photobucket

[laughingliberal]

30. Well, after 46 years in the same business (apprenticed with the masters from the age of 16) it

wouldn't be easy especially as his health is not very good anymore. We're actually relatively lucky compared to the other tradesmen here. My husband's reputation means anyone with any money to spend who needs this type of work does call us. Every other finisher/refinisher/restorer in the area except one has closed up shop in the past 2 years. The other one is a guy who apprenticed under my husband years ago. We did manage to decrease expenses by combining our shop with his and splitting rent. Our clients base has, fortunately, been among some of the wealthier citizens in the area so we have managed to pull in enough to keep eating and putting gas in the truck. The rich still have money. There just aren't very many of them any more.

When I became unable to nurse anymore we were also able to pick up some faux finishing work which I learned years ago from some artists in Houston. We've also taken a job or two for house painting. But it's tight. We're in a state with 13.2% unemployment. Unless we could figure out something people can't live without, I really don't see much hope here for a while. But we'll keep going as long as we can find a place to plug in a compressor and we still have a little trickling in. Beyond that, we'll have to try to relocate but I'm not sure how we can set up with no money and build a customer base somewhere new. One lead we had recently was from a former apprentice who packed up and went to the Gulf. He says there's a lot of building there and he's finding enough work. So we may have to make our way down there, eventually. Maybe after we lose the house which shouldn't be much longer.

[zbiker]

43. hhhmmmm, well i am

unsure of what you mean by health issues, sounds like he may still be well enough to get around and speak well. don't let those years of experience go to wast. he obviously loved what he was doing and was good at it, that being said then he may be ripe for the teaching profession so to speak.
i look at it like this, if all the old masters are retiring or getting away from the business, then their is a vacuum being created, maybe he can approach the local community college and share his wisdom with others as an elective class a few days a week. i bet he could almost name his price the college may charge a small fee to the kids to enroll as well as the local house wife who has just one of her grandmothers pieces to bring back to life.
that is just one option of coarse, there are a million ways to work the idea but you get my point, and the best part is since i am sure he has all his equipment already, there is liter ly going to be no start up cost outside of local advertising to get started, and this could be done on the cheap with flyer's and home made signs to get started :)
hhhhhhmmmm, maybe i should take my own advice and do this as well, even with my schedule surly i could squeeze in a few hours to teach what i know to others, what do you think :)

[laughingliberal]

73. It's a good idea but few here who need retraining have any money right now

We have people who volunteer and ask to come work in our shop to learn from my husband but there are few in this state, right now, with money to spend. We do get some free labor that way and, as a lot of these guys are painters, we make good contacts with local contractors. One of these led to a job last spring where the customer needed to have their front entry way distressed and finished to look like a 700 year old castle door. One of the painters on the job was a kid we'd been training in furniture finishing and he gave the decorator our name. We don't get paid for teaching right now but it has come back to us in ways like that.

As I said, we closed up our shop and moved in to share space with one of his apprentices of old which has helped us and him cut the expense of running the business. It's getting a little better than it was. Summer of 2008 we got not one call and my husband (60 at that time and undergoing cancer treatments) went out in the Nevada desert and cut up old D9 CATS with a blow torch and sold the scrap iron to feed us. Last summer we got a couple of big kitchen remodels which fed us through the fall. Just as the bottom was really about to fall out in December we got a call from a local decorator who uses us and she had just gotten a client who had stripped out a castle in Europe of antiques and mantels they wanted restored for use in a house they are building (the rich still have some money, it seems). That took us to now and we were looking at falling off the cliff, again, when we got several calls week before last and now we're actually having to keep a calendar again to keep up with several little jobs. Today, one of the masters my husband apprenticed under called (if you can believe it-over a hundred years old and still at it) and has decided it's time to retire. Lol. So, he wanted us to know he has given our name to his clients told them to use us in the future. Don't want to celebrate too soon but I'm starting to think we might just weather this storm.

Anyway, the teaching thing is something we have looked at before and my husband was actually approached about teaching a course at one of the prisons here years ago. That one didn't go as the prison was opposed to having any toxic chemicals in the workshop and my husband has not found a lot of the water based applications to produce the quality or durability he wants in his work. But, it is a thought. My training with faux finishes tends to be more with the water based products so, perhaps, we should pitch a course in faux finishing to them. Custom high end housing and remodels seems to be picking up a little in this area (as I said, the rich still have money).

We got into the custom wood finishing in new construction and remodels as of one of those spin offs like you have talked about. My husband was always in the antique restoration and furniture refinishing business. Some years back a wealthy customer of his in the area whose antiques he had been doing for years called and she wanted him to finish the new cabinets and bathroom vanities she was having built. He was going to tell her he didn't do new construction when I butted in (lol) and told him there's only so many antiques in the world and new construction was a good bet for expansion. It has been probably 75% of our income since then. If things dry up too bad here we really do think we may drag our old fifth wheel to the Gulf and see what we can shake out down there.

[Raineyb]

47. That kind of thing depends on people having disposable income. Perhaps you didn't notice

how bad the economy has been of late.

(That's not even going into why anyone would want to spend their disposable income on such -stuff.)

[zbiker]

54. then approach

it from another angle, what is it that folks must have, food,clothing and shelter. tie one of those into something you enjoy, see my post referring the retired school marm that makes pies and cakes......
their are various degrees of disposable income, if you are doing something that (say for example) another business depends on to help them generate their income, you have filled a demand and this will in return build more demand for your service/product.
if you look around and see nothing but doom and gloom, of coarse you will not make it, look for an opportunity, that where you'll find the money
sometimes with a little imagination a down economy can be a benefit for a start up business, unless your someone that can't/wont take advantage of it to make a potentially good thing better. if not for yourself then maybe others.......
the secret is being able to see potential instead of road blocks, it's out their man, just take your hands out of your pockets and get busy
as far as people spending money on weird or bizarre stuff, one thing my little antique/collectible store has taught me is their is a collector for virtually every thing,and i do mean everything, granted their are a lot of items that are simply not worth 2 plug nickles, but folks still collect it. heck if i can sell old elk turds on a string, surly you can find something and a product that folks will be interested in
remember, not everyone in the world is destitute, expand your sales area into places where there is still money available, see my post about selling wood fish all over the world. there is a prime example of not hemming yourself in to just one depressed area

[JDPriestly]

18. What kind of work do you do, zbiker?

I know so many small business owners whose businesses have failed. Some of my friends had businesses that were really doing well and then failed. What kind of business did you start?

[zbiker]

20. well i started

refinishing antiques to start, very little money to get started and as business grew i got a little more selective. i decided that since work was coming in faster than i could do it,rather than expanding and hiring help at such an early stage, i would only take work from museums and historical sites. never mind that i was working out of my 2 car garage, folks really liked my work and word spread like wildfire. well 2 years went by and i began to notice that every time someone came in to pick up their furniture they were asking about buying someone Else's stuff. i would graciously give them their numbers and let them haggle out a price. it didn't matter to me who wrote me the final check for my work as long as the check cleared :). anyway, one day i got the bright idea that since i either knew or had done work for every antique dealer in the state of wyoming and obviously by this time i had a great reputation and that i should ask around and see what dealing antiques was all about, next thing i knew i had rented a down town site where i could rent floor space out to various dealers by the foot, plus charge a small commission to sell their wares, had i known that a small town of 5000 people would keep me so busy may have rethought the whole idea :O
to make a long story short i am now the local antique store / antique clock repairman / antique radio repairman and local honey supplier.
it is true many times i thought that the business might fail, but i think that if one does think outside the box just a little, and is not afraid to learn as he/she goes along, anyone ( and i do mean anyone) can be self employed and do just fine. the thing that made it for me was NEVER going to a bank for a loan. no need for a partner in business that is not helping to produce by his labor, that is simply a drag on the business that will kill it eventually, period
unless the tax rates goes up by this time next year i should begin to hire help to let me get free time to expand my honey bee business a little more, once that is done i should be able to hire even more if everything keeps going on like it is.

so ask yourself, is there something i would like to learn to do, if so give it a try and see where it takes you, doubt never got dinner on the table. and always remember, there is always a demand for something out there, find it and fill the need.
oh yea, and never go the the bank..... do it on your own and your chances go up

[tonysam]

22. The bank thing is critical, I think

If I were to try self-employment, which is a distinct possibility, I will need to take classes at the local community college just so that I am prepared for the money end of it (taxes, accounting, etc.). I only want to take classes short term, a year at most. I don't need another college degree. I am thinking about applying for a Pell Grant to do it.

[zbiker]

25. it's a good idea

and i recommend it highly, i myself am no math whiz but fortunately i know someone who is, also see if the local small business council can help put you in touch with the folks that deal with beginning business people to help them Thur the money end. it may save you the cost of the classes in the end.
also, keep in mind that more than one source of revenue is always ideal. you never see a successfully farmer/rancher/business man deal in one thing and one thing only. don't spread yourself overly thin but have several "item" related things going all at the same time.
do like me, all my stuff except the honey stems from antiques. clocks/radios/furniture/glassware/jewelry repair etc are all sort of related by the fact they are old. and it makes me more in demand than my competition :)

[JDPriestly]

32. Thanks. I think you made a wise choice in your work.

I have long thought that if I were younger, I would try to learn to repair things. You can make a good, independent living with just a little investment. Unfortunately, I'm too old to go into that. You have to have good hands and a good eye for what you do. Also, you have to hope that your field does not become flooded by other capable people.

Getting a job as a teacher used to be a pretty sure thing. It isn't any more. Getting a secretarial job about 30 years ago was a cinch. No longer.

Then there were service representative jobs -- outsourced for the most part.

Sales -- no one has any money.

Law -- Don't bother to become a lawyer now. Thousands of people paid a lot of money to go to law school. Only the top students get jobs, and many of them end up unemployed after a few years. I applied for a part-time job teaching in my field -- and was told that there were 50 other qualified applicants.

If you can find a niche and have a special talent, you can survive and start your business. If not, forget it. There just are no jobs right now. That's the ugly truth. This is especially true if you are over 50.

[zbiker]

41. once again, not everyone has looked

internally, don't limit you thought process to simply fixing things like i do, i have a retired school teacher who actually lives two houses from me that bakes for her home job. when the economy took a dump last year she found she couldn't,t make ends meet and was in fear of losing the house she and her now deceased husband bought back in 1952. she loved making cakes and cookies for the neighborhood children, now she is selling wedding and birthday cakes to the local food stores and at the local farmers market, in fact she buys some of my honey for her baking needs.all she had to do is locate a small commercial kitchen from a restaurant that was going under from poor management, make a deal with the owner of the building ,fill out the paperwork and she was up and running. she is around 65 or 70 years of age i think.
look, the point i am trying to get across here is there must be something you enjoy doing that will have a marketable value somewhere, simply open your eyes and ears and take a try at it, if you do it well,get the word spread that it is what you do, keep the price right and treat your customers fair, if you see that the business is not taking off, try a new approach, keep it simple as you can and control costs
if you don't have the will or desire, then all the light i can shine on this subject is simply wasted, you haft to want to try it, after that it's simply up to you to make it work.

[JDPriestly]

53. I, like many in my generation, have already had numerous careers.

I invested an enormous amount of time and money in my last one and now there is no market for my skills. I don't think I will make that mistake again. We even moved to Europe for jobs we couldn't get here. No, something has to be changed in the structure of our economy. People need help to adjust to the changes. It is not right that some extremely wealthy trust fund bum can suddenly pull the jobs out from under millions of people and ship them to China or India and then leave the people who lost their jobs to "re-train" themselves for new jobs -- only to discover that just when they get out and get enough experience in their new field to qualify for a good job, the job is being outsourced or disappeared due to an economic downturn.

I did not borrow too much money. I always worked. I am asked to retrain when I'm over 65 already.

Some guy on Wall Street who gambled with other people's money including my savings walks away with millions in bonuses and keeps his job. What is wrong with this picture?

I'm happy that you have found a good way to make a living from your talents. But my talents aren't in demand right now. They were a few years ago, but they aren't now. And more and more Americans are discovering that they are in my situation.

When the injustice becomes unbearable people demand change. We are almost there.

I do wish you good luck in your business, but I also hope that you can have compassion for others who are possibly older than you are and no longer have the time to retrain and fit into the job market that changes so rapidly.

[zbiker]

55. i suspect we

were in the same boat at one point. for years i worked as a early model harley mechanic, i had spent a ton of money on school and was finding that even thou i enjoyed what i did to no end, in the winter i was definitely NOT in demand as you may well imagine, so i would run heave equipment working construction. as the years progressed and fewer and fewer of the old harleys needed my attention because folks were buying the new fangled "no leak specials" i discovered my skills were less and less in demand, it made no sense to go back to school and spend a ton of money i didn't have just to update my education, and at 65 you well know how the joints feel after a day of getting up and down doing different jobs ( i always said, build me a bike 6 feet tall and i would be happy :))
what i had to overcome,(and you may be with me on this one) was the mindset that since this is what i was trained in, it's all i can EVER do, what turned it around for me was for my sainted old mothers birthday she asked if i would get her old singer sewing cabinet restored :o, ok,this shouldn't be too bad i thought, till i found out how much it would be and how long it was going to take for him to even get to it.
so i said to myself," self, it cannot be that tuff, study up on it and do it yourself" and the rest is history......
now if i remember correctly you stated your expertise is nursing. ok, think back and remember what it was that really bugged you about your job ??, what was the one thing that either the doctors, the patients or nurses needed help remembering or getting done, how about the ambulatory guys, the list goes on
once you have a bead on that,what could you do or make to solve the problem. when i was younger and we had family in the hospital i always wished they had a place for the kids to be watched and out of our hair while we were visiting. personally i would have wanted it to be a nurse rather than a simple baby sitter service. who knows, the hospital may even provide such a space if asked.
but i digress......
if nothing comes to mind in your old field, what do you like to do know ?? read,golf,walk,watch jerry springer,whatever it may be, i would bet that there is someone out their you can provide something your already doing anyway as a service.
my sweety dabbles in home bound health care for accident victims, reads to those that cant and drives folks around that do for themselves on their shopping excursions. with your training any of those would be a snap, plus your being a nurse is a bonus on a resume

give it some thought and ill bet you could find yourself in a dandy position of your own making in no time.
and always remember, keep your chin up honey, their ain't no way out but up :)

[eridani]

33. What businesses require $300 or less in start-up costs? n/t

[zbiker]

39. actually quite a few

if one uses his witt's, take my antique clock repair for instance. a guy/girl can put together everything one needs in an afternoon, for about 100.00 to get started and have the rest of the other 200.00 for building and painting a nice home made sign,business cards,a small listing in the phone book etc.
honey bees are another, one can purchase a small starter nuc hive locally that is ready to go for around 45.00 thru 60.00, purchase a pair of bib overalls,a light colored jacket,some wedding veil material and a straw hat and your in business so to speak.......
and the list goes on and on, one just has to try and figure out the need and have the desire.
be creative, if you have artistic talent put it to work, if not ask around, i'll bet you know someone who does. go to the local junk/consignment store and pick up used equipment for cheap to start your enterprise,new is not always better. Also a home made sign is the cheapest advertisement you can have as it does not need a payment every month to get the word out. and if placed in the right location is almost better than word of mouth....plus it will cost little of nothing to start.
as mentioned earlier, use your consignment store or junk dealer to put together what you need, or do not be afraid to try to build it yourself, my first clock lathe for polishing pivots was nothing more than an old 1950's hand drill mounted in a home made holding bracket....total cost was 12.00. that little lathe has more than paid for it's self trust me :)

like i said, be creative, think a little outside the box and be adaptable, if your market changes, or has a need to fill, fill it on the cheap or change to meet the changes, you can always upgrade later if you are not locked into a "one way to do the job" mentality.

[Bluerthanblue]

42. just got through reading your posts on this thread and I just want

to say Thank You for being so encouraging.

It's easy to be discouraged, to look at the hurdles and recall past failures and just say 'it can't ever work'.
Hearing you so obviously content and successful in your adventure, has given me a much needed glimmer of hope.

:grouphug:

thank you for that-

may you continue to prosper.

[zbiker]

44. thanks for the hug

but really the thanks should go to all you guys, as mentioned earlier i am just a dumb ranch kid, no college education to speak of but i see so much potential on the members here on the forum. sometimes it simply takes someone to point out the obvious and show a new idea at work to get a head of steam built.
it's really up to you all, simply decide that you are tired of relying on someone else for a income and create one for yourself, if your out of work as of right now, then what have you got to lose, and please be creative, look about and see what is in need. no matter how small, if it is something you enjoy then by god pull your pants up and make a go of it. :)
is it risky, you bet, is their a chance it won't fly, perhaps.... but if does fail, change the way you do it and try again,you will eventually hit on a way to make it go. simply stay away from the bank and do it on the cheap
ok, everyone is probably tired of me blabbering by now so ill go back to lurking, good luck with your endeavors and may you all prosper wildly :)

[eridani]

59. Sounds like a fantasy world to me

A business license and bonding is way more than $300. Explain how you pay rent from the income from a single beehive. All this stuff sounds feasible only for people who are married to someone with a regular job and health insurance.

[zbiker]

62. ahhh, i think you did

not read the full post, a single bee hive by it's self would not "pay the rent" so to speak. but it makes a dandy supplement as it requires almost no time on your part as the honey bees do most of the work themselves.
also keep in mind that a hive of bees must expand and swarm in the spring in order to increase it's population. they can cast as many as 3 swarms a year if left unchecked. often if the hive is managed correctly and a "split" is done on the hive so that the swarms do not go feral, you can easily triple your number of hives by fall of the first year (:nuke: now thats what i call a population explosion)
and don't forget that once the word is out that you are handling honey bees, people will be calling YOU to remove that pesky swarm that moved into the tree outside there back door and right next to their favorite swimming pool ( and these bees can be had for free, or you can charge a small fee in some areas.
i find that keeping enough top bar hives on hand at any giving time is the biggest challenge.
a business license is not needed to raise honey bees anywhere that i am aware of, and if you simply go to the farmers markets or sell to individuals directly. most states only require that you register your hives as hobby hives and no fee is required for that. i am living in wyoming which is the state with one of the most stringent bee laws on the books and even at that it is still super easy.
one must of coarse be diversified, you could never pay off the house the first year by bees alone starting so small and using a 28.00 top bar hive, but as a supplement income it's sure hard to beat

[eridani]

65. Yes, it's a great idea. However, the key word here is SUPPLEMENTAL

Someone who is unemployed has to get a real income from some other source first.

[zbiker]

66. absolutely, thats why

i never promoted it as your first choice to get up and running.( see post #20 for the rest of the story) as mentioned before, be diversified and make your services/items/whatever your first career choice such as i did. my thing is antique themed items such as my store, clocks, radios, furniture , glassware ect....that comes first, then the honey is a nice low cost, low labor money making kicker.
i suppose if someone planned ahead and set up a site, built or had built some tbh's and did the necessary homework he could go commercial right out of the gate, but from a start-up position i wouldn't recommend it. start small and see if you like it first i always say. then take it from there
that aside, honey bees are just one example of small cost start up things, many can turn into a career if given a chance, their is a world of possibilities if one looks around and see a need that can be filled, or a service to be preformed. but one has to open their thought process a little, shop cheap, use the internet for your initial education on a subject( their is a forum for just about everything under the sun) and use what you already have on hand to get started.
and as mentioned before, if it does not fly at first, take a look at why and change up your methods to make it do so. no one will hold it against you if you need to change your game plan to make it a success.
well, there you have it, now all you haft to do is step up to the plate and decide you want to try, start the leg work, put a little effort into promotion and get busy. time will tell if you are doing it right or not
I started my antique store on a 350.00 tax retern check, so i know it can be done......

[Raineyb]

46. Exhibit A n/t

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

48. You DO realize your (and anyone's) small business is at a permanent risk of going under...

through no fault of your own. Even if you stay sharp and work a lot and always make the decisions you judge to be the best.

Effectively, lots of people and external factors can STILL lay you off.

[zbiker]

56. yep, in fact the world

could end tomorrow, but i also that if i don't try ill never succeed, when it comes down to going with out because i couldn't bring myself to pull my hands out of my pockets and make a go of it then there is no one to blame but me.
i have always kept in the back of mind mind my granddads old saying as well, " the barter system will never go out of style"
when all else fails trade for something that will generate an income.......
if it fails today, do it different tomorrow

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

60. My point is that sometimes people DO reach the end of the rope

for reasons other than they're lazy or dumb or unwilling to change. It's because (a) shit happens, and (b) right-wing policies increase the probability of shit happening.

What do you think happens when unempoloyment figures change noticeably over time? 10% of the population were lazy that year, ten years later only 5% were lazy, then ten years later 10% are lazy again?

Hardly. Policies have consequences.

[zbiker]

63. who said anything about being lazy ??

i believe most folks are unemployed right now because something happened that was out of their control. they had no say in the hand they were dealt and it is totally a shitty deal.
being lazy had absolutely nothing to do with it. far from it in fact. but simply throwing your hands in the air and saying their is nothing that can be done is a wast of time. especially if you have the capability to think a little creatively and are not afraid to put your self out there with something you already enjoy.
if you have reached the end of your rope, don't use it to hang yourself, use it to swing over to a new vantage point and see whats there. don't lock yourself into a "it cant work for me because" train of thought, that will simply keep you on the rolls of the unemployed :hurts: i guess i am confused why this is such a hard concept

[stray cat]

10. There are people I would permanently never hire for any position

but then I have limited funds so I can't employ people who refuse to show up for work, refuse to do anything besides chat on facebook or can't read, write or follow written simple tasks.

[mudplanet]

15. I agree that most auto workers aren't necessarily permanently unemployable but

many people are, for all practical purposes, permanently unemployable by reasonable standards.

The vast majority of people with Downs Syndrome that are employed are employed in "supported employment" situations. That means they are employed in either a government subsidized job and/or they work for someone that understands their limitations and is willing to employ them anyway.

If a man or woman has a history of working in a specific occupation, for example as a tool and die maker, and there are no jobs for tool and die makers, and that individual is over 50 years old, their options are to go to work in some non-skilled occupation that pays minimum wage (in many cases, or most cases in a bad economy). By most standards that individual is permanently unemployable (or at least until jobs that call for their professional skills become available). Their options may very well be to go to work in a minimum wage occupation and, if there are 5000 or 20000 other tool and die makers unemployed in the same area at the same time, it just isn't happening. Besides, if they do get a minimum wage job, they're taking the job from the unskilled population that normally does that type of work.

If you believe that to be an unreasonable standard, look at it this way. If you are, for example, a 45-year-old construction worker such as a skilled carpenter, making something in the range of 25 to 40 dollars an hour, and you lose the use of your legs, you are considered by Social Security and private insurance companies to be permanently disabled (permanently unemployable). Some folks, including Social Security, may argue that you could still take tickets at a movie theater (and some of these folks will insist this, so if you do become disabled, get a lawyer) and so are not "permanently unemployable." Think about this question carefully - in the social work profession we refer to folks like you as "temporarily abled."

Virtually anyone that isn't quadriplegic, it could be argued, can be employed somehow in an occupation. But how do you go about getting them into a employed situation? Is it reasonable to expect that they should be virtually "infinitely adaptable?" Especially in a bad economy?

[JDPriestly]

19. Severely mentally ill people are not employable.

A person has to be able to function in the social setting of the workplace in order to stay employed. That is one of the tragedies of our society. In a simple, agrarian society, the mentally ill could simply work on the family farm. They were protected from the judgment of society. But when a person who is mentally ill tries to work in an office or restaurant today, he or she messes up eventually.

I used to work for a homeless project that tried to place people into jobs. You really don't want a kleptomaniac cleaning your office when you aren't there. You also don't want a drug addict cleaning your office -- or even the street. So our society has lots of unemployable people. Drug addicts could be employed if they could be clean and sober, but for many of them staying clean and sober is a really tough job in and of itself. Some never make it.

So, this job consultant is not living in the real world of the needy and chronically unemployed. He or she needs to show a lot more compassion. Life is incredibly difficult for some people. Ordinary things that most of us do easily without thinking can be tremendous hurdles for some of us.

Especially at this time in our history, especially in this Easter/Passover season, we all need to remember to show compassion for others.

[JDPriestly]

17. I have a friend who is extremely paranoid. Believe me, she is

permanently unemployable although she looks quite normal. I talk to her on the phone every once in a while. She really, really suffers. Thank God for SSI. She would starve without it.

As for updating skills, it depends. Before taking courses, you need to carefully consider whether you will get a return on your investment. Sometimes the courses cost more than you can earn from the job you might get after you complete your training.

It is especially risky to go back to school once you reach a certain age. It's really hard to get high-paying jobs if you just obtained a professional degree at the age of 56. You have the degree but others of your age have a lot more relevant experience than you do.

So. No. We are not all employable. And no. Retraining is generally a good idea but it does not always make economic sense.

[zbiker]

21. i understudied with someone

who had been in the business (refinishing antiques) for over 30 years. i didn't haft to go in full time, what i made is what i got paid and i got to know the customers in the field. other than my time and a few tools it was the best way to train cost wise. i recommend it highly

[lumberjack_jeff]

40. People need identity and a sense that they are contributing.

The question isn't if people are employable, it's if they are profitably employable. Not everyone is profitably employable in any given profession, but everyone can in some way contribute.

The examples above of people with significant mental illness issues miss the point. If they were needed to fulfill a role in society, society might be motivated to treat them.

Something that really bothers me is the generally-accepted belief that it's all a big competition, the jobs should be 20% fewer than the population and that they must go to those who are willing and able to compete for them. Simultaneously, those who are otherwise conversant in basic arithmetic believe that everyone can get a job, if they work hard enough, thus validating their self image as an unusually smart, talented and hard-working cog in a fair system.

[zbiker]

49. hey, i resemble that remark :)

actually what i have been promoting here is different in theory:

--"Something that really bothers me is the generally-accepted belief that it's all a big competition, the jobs should be 20% fewer than the population and that they must go to those who are willing and able to compete for them. Simultaneously, those who are otherwise conversant in basic arithmetic believe that everyone can get a job, if they work hard enough, thus validating their self image as an unusually smart, talented and hard-working cog in a fair system."--

what i am suggesting is not looking at getting a job, it is creating one for yourself. self reliance is it's own reward to a great extent. and yes it does mean it is in a sense competitive, the urge to give up and sit on the couch is hard to over come at times,once beaten then yes, everyone can have a job :) plus if done well, then others can and will come work with ( notice i did not say for) you.

[bobbolink]

26. Really? Tell that to the man who has been severely injured in a work "accident"

who now lives in terrible pain and isn't even ambulatory.

Please.

Just try telling him that.

[Odin2005]

29. +1

[bobbolink]

45. .

:hi:

Notice the OP doesn't reply.....

..................

.....{crickets}

[zbiker]

64. deleted

[Odin2005]

28. I'm "Permanently Unemployable" for most low-end McJobs.

I'm any of those jobs I would quickly have an autistic meltdown and get fired, that is if I somehow got the job.

Over 80% of people diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome are unemployed.

[RandomThoughts]

34. You know, there are some people that like to throw the aspergers label around me sometimes.

So I am going to respond to your post, even though you obviously are not talking about me directly.

It took a great deal of work, and mental thought to widen the pipe to be able to do pattern matching at a high level.

And most of the pattern matching I do, I don't even know the pattern exist till post effect, hence why it is not marketable, since I really don't do it.

But there are people that think when I do pattern matching that I am doing something like aspergers, had a few people say that about finding correlations in music or posts.

Although you are not speaking of me directly, I have heard that about my posts.

I will say, my employment issues come from two things, first everything I have done in last 8 years regarding pattern posting is not marketable because I really can't make claim to the coincidences, and I don't think it is about money.

However, it is also hard to justify going out and working for less then acceptable value, when I am already owed from a decade ago, not from anything in the last decade, but if I was not compensated for wrong done then, why would I expect to be paid in the future?. So I just advocate for things I think are important, and have fun. I also understand, most people really aren't worried about it, and know I am just one person. So there is that also.

However I will say my text and thoughts on issues, are mine, and might have some value, I really don't see that as highly marketable, even though what I have said has popped up in all kinds of different places without compensation. Although I did not ask for any. I am happy if ideals I might mention other people might agree with, and also understand correlation is not causation, so it could just be many people thinking the same things.

But I do want to comment on the Asperger's comment, since I have fun with pattern matching in posts, and coincidentally the comment seems to pop up in a few posts and even comments in person.

[Greyhound]

35. You misunderstood. This was not an assessment of your value, (s)he was

informing you of an established policy.

Union members or former union members are not welcome in the "new economy".

[RandomThoughts]

36. heh, that's not a good thing to say.

First off it makes some presumption of who can define what the new economy will be.

I will assume it is sarcasm, since such a declaration would require some authority that I do not see nor recognize. And of coarse I do not accept it either, nor do I accept the ability to declare what the economy will be, nor do I accept the claim to have the ability to set up exclusionary rules or systems around it.

[Greyhound]

50. Not presumption, merely observation. The Corporate States of America are

the New Economy®

They are not interested in experience and they certainly are not interested in people that already know how to stand up to their plantation policies.

[RandomThoughts]

57. Only if people want to be part of that economy.

They only have any control, if people think they do, they are actually a very small group with very limited power. There only way to try to sustain themselves is to get people to believe they are sustainable and go down with them.

They have to continue to consolidate to maintain their ethos, and that excludes more and more, till they fall over.

[Greyhound]

61. Small group, but power beyond what most people believe is possible.

But you are right, the answer is to stop playing, however as long as so many of us believe the illusion/con-game it will go on and woe to those of us that fight them.

[RandomThoughts]

70. Your statement continues to have the same tone.

Your whole perception is as if they have some ability or power, Why do you repeatedly bow down to them with statements like woe to those that fight them.

Joy and victory to those that fight them with good ways of love and kindness.



I do detect that you state you understand it is not playing their game, and exposing their con, but then you support their con with the woe statement.

[Greyhound]

71. If you do not believe they are that powerful, go poke one.

You will learn just how powerless you really are. You think the law protects you? What will you do when law enforcement says , "no, not going to enforce that."? What will you do when you loses your house, job, credit? What will you do when they come after your friends and family?

We in America live in this wonderful fantasy and most can go through their lives without ever disturbing or noticing that it is a fantasy, and that is it's purpose.

Really, this is a learning opportunity, go piss off a person that matters and then report back to us how you beat them.

[RandomThoughts]

72. LOL

I think the difference is I do not put my trust firstly in laws, although I admire justice and advocate for it, not all laws can be said to line up with justice. But limited justice within the flaws of any system can be helped by laws.

What will you do when you loses your house, job, credit? What will you do when they come after your friends and family?

Been there, and my life only improved, then again I did not run away, or bow down to them. But that also depends on perspective of what it is to be alive.


Really, this is a learning opportunity, go piss off a person that matters and then report back to us how you beat them.

I chuckle on that a bit, but pissing off people is not the goal. To defeat an enemy is to expend energy and only have that enemy replaced by another of unknown thought, only to start from the beginning again. To love an enemy is to have him join in thought and be part of better solutions, adding to your side, and what you believe.

And knowing that all people are partly good, and most people are more good then bad, even that so called powerful person in your view can be helped, not beat, by the most insignificant act. It is not about beating them, it is about bringing out the good they want to be, and many are.

See the difference, but in all that, when they are bad, you don't follow that part, nor agree with it. Just like you expect the same when people act on your thoughts or actions.

[Odin2005]

67. Which is exactly one of the reasons I will never last long in a McJob.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[demodonkey]

51. I'm told by friend (staff person for an elected official) that over 50 is permanently unemployable.

Says her office gets dozens of calls from people over 50 who can't find ANY job. They are "overqualified", or there are "no openings", etc. etc. etc. She says she can't help any of them.

What are people supposed to do if deemed "unemployable" -- KILL THEMSELF???

[Vinca]

52. It seems I'm always hearing about people who have "updated"

their skills, only to watch their new job opportunities outsourced. The problem isn't with the workers, it's with the greedy employers who'd rather pay a kid in China 10 cents to craft a product than pay a decent wage to an American worker.

[datasuspect]

68. the only way we can compete is to achieve wage parity with india, china, and the third world

[Capitalocracy]

74. yeah, there you go

my new catchphrase is if you compete with sweatshops, even if you win, you lose.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

69. I'm an artist and have sold very few things.

I could start lots of small businesses, but they need customers with disposable income. Cash flow.

It's called DEMAND. The real world, which is the opposite of the supply side economics that Milton Friedman and his group of delusional economists have preached since the Reagan years.


Lots of people have goods and services, but if there is no demand for it, and people are not willing to part with their money for what you can sell or do, it's just tough toenails.

:banghead:

This ties in with my statement that I cannot FORCE somebody to give me a job. A job must be a valid contract and duress creates an invalid contract.