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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 08:38 AM
Original message
'Priests Commit No More Abuse Than Other Males' - Newsweek.com
Edited on Sat Apr-10-10 09:35 AM by onehandle
The priesthood is being cast as the refuge of pederasts. In fact, priests seem to abuse children at the same rate as everyone else. The Catholic sex-abuse stories emerging every day suggest that Catholics have a much bigger problem with child molestation than other denominations and the general population. Many point to peculiarities of the Catholic Church (its celibacy rules for priests, its insular hierarchy, its exclusion of women) to infer that there's something particularly pernicious about Catholic clerics that predisposes them to these horrific acts. It's no wonder that, back in 2002 when the last Catholic sex-abuse scandal was making headlines a Wall Street Journal-NBC News poll found that 64 percent of those queried thought Catholic priests "frequently" abused children.

Yet experts say there's simply no data to support the claim at all. No formal comparative study has ever broken down child sexual abuse by denomination, and only the Catholic Church has released detailed data about its own. But based on the surveys and studies conducted by different denominations over the past 30 years, experts who study child abuse say they see little reason to conclude that sexual abuse is mostly a Catholic issue. "We don't see the Catholic Church as a hotbed of this or a place that has a bigger problem than anyone else," said Ernie Allen, president of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. "I can tell you without hesitation that we have seen cases in many religious settings, from traveling evangelists to mainstream ministers to rabbis and others."

Since the mid-1980s, insurance companies have offered sexual misconduct coverage as a rider on liability insurance, and their own studies indicate that Catholic churches are not higher risk than other congregations. Insurance companies that cover all denominations, such as Guide One Center for Risk Management, which has more than 40,000 church clients, does not charge Catholic churches higher premiums. "We don't see vast difference in the incidence rate between one denomination and another," says Sarah Buckley, assistant vice president of corporate communications. "It's pretty even across the denominations." It's been that way for decades. While the company saw an uptick in these claims by all types of churches around the time of the 2002 U.S. Catholic sex-abuse scandal, Eric Spacick, Guide One's senior church-risk manager, says "it's been pretty steady since." On average, the company says 80 percent of the sexual misconduct claims they get from all denominations involve sexual abuse of children. As a result, the more children's programs a church has, the more expensive its insurance, officials at Guide One said.

The only hard data that has been made public by any denomination comes from John Jay College's study of Catholic priests, which was authorized and is being paid for by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops following the public outcry over the 2002 scandals. Limiting their study to plausible accusations made between 1950 and 1992, John Jay researchers reported that about 4 percent of the 110,000 priests active during those years had been accused of sexual misconduct involving children. ... Experts disagree on the rate of sexual abuse among the general American male population, but Allen says a conservative estimate is one in 10. Margaret Leland Smith, a researcher at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, says her review of the numbers indicates it's closer to one in 5. But in either case, the rate of abuse by Catholic priests is not higher than these national estimates.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/236096


I've always wondered about this. Of course this doesn't excuse the cover-ups, but what other organizations are covering up? Probably not to this degree, but there must be some. Not to mention the 'cover-ups' of long term abuse in people's own homes. Only a fraction of abuse is ever discovered or reported.



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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. it's the cover-up
Edited on Sat Apr-10-10 08:44 AM by rucky
can't tell me it won't happen more in an environment that tries to sweep the problem under the rug.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. ...and the smarmy sanctimony
Edited on Sat Apr-10-10 08:49 AM by SpiralHawk
It is soooooo Republicon. It galls the spirit that Pope Ratzinger and his cabal O' creeps keep wagging their fingers at everyone else. Take the frikkin beams out of your OWN eyes, Pope...
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
2. Even if true, does the average male have the trust level of a priest,
who is often looked upon as being right up there with God? Does the average male have a massive and powerful organization like the Catholic Church to cover up his crimes and simply shift him to another location which allows him to continue to sexually prey upon innocent children and young people?
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Fathers, uncles, ministers of other religions, big brothers. Hell yeah'
Edited on Sat Apr-10-10 08:59 AM by jobycom
There's a lot of bigotry towards religions, and that's feeding this media frenzy. There's also a Protestant hatred of Catholics, and the fact that the Catholic sexual morality is too far behind the times, and people are using this to attack them.

But molestation happens all over, and frequently the abuser is someone close to the family, and frequently it's not reported. Even worse, when it is reported it is ignored--by parents who don't want to believe it, by family members who don't want to go public with such painful issues, and by society who just doesn't really want to hear about it unless we can whip a priest or politician over it.

I don't know why society is so mad at the Pope, since society at large is just as, and probably more, responsible for covering it up.

Not that I don't think the pope and the Catholic Church deserves a lot of blame for the way they responded. It's just that denial and coverup is the usual response, from everyone. Don't believe that, then hang out at an AA meeting.

And in case you're wondering, I grew up Catholic, became Protestant around twelve, have been an atheist most of my life, and have never been molested nor been to an AA meeting (though I have many friends who attend them). I'm not defending or condemning anyone for any personal reasons here, in other words.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Exactly right. Except I do think it is clear why society is mad at this Pope. nt
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #12
33. THey chose him because he was old, not because he was good.
They knew he was the type of leader who would just protect his corporation until he left office for a better qualified candidate. A caretaker pope. That's pretty much what he did all along. I doubt he had any malicious intent in his previous actions, I suspect he was just the weak-willed sort of manager who protects the company and follows orders, and so when confronted with a molesting priest he just followed the manual and moved on to his next task.

His main sin is that he's just too average to be a good leader, in my opinion. He's a company man, without the ability to see beyond that in any moral sense. Sad that he's where he is, but they only promoted him because he didn't piss off too many people and because they figured he'd die soon enough anyway.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #8
39. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. Deleted message
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #2
32. When a priest talks with a child he is speaking for "god" . . . !!!!
Or a family -- when the deed is done -- and asking for their silence!!

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edhopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
3. Uh,
priests are suppose to have a higher moral code than the general public. Do they have the same rate in all criminal behavior?
And the church is not suppose to act like a criminal organization when the crime is found out.
If they do they lose all moral authority. Which they have.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. You're right. But that's not the point of the article. nt
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edhopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #10
23. What do you think
the point is?
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movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #3
21. Most organized religions are criminal organizations...money, sex and
politics...how so many are taken in by these criminal organizations really astounds me..
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #21
30. Right . . . imagine if this said, "priests don't steal anymore than anyone else" . . .!!!
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
5. I am sorry, but in most other organizations they do NOT cover it up like the Church has been doing
for years. It gets reported to the police or authorities

The Church has shown a pattern of covering things up

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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. I have no doubt that they did the biggest covering up, but you can't say that all others report it.
And only a tiny fraction of home abuse is ever discovered or reported.

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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. I do not believe other organizations in the western world go to the lengths that the
Church does to protect those who have done criminal wrong-doing

Is the Catholic Church the only organized religion that has done this, most likely not, however, when events like this come to light, I do not recall other organizations going to the lengths that the Church is going to make excuses

If the Church had come out and said this was intolerable, and they will throw out any member of their clergy who had molested a child, and report them to the authorities, I have no doubt this would have blown over very quickly

The problem is that after it was exposed in the U.S., and now with these current revelations, some of the comments that have come from the Church have been outrageous

It is no wonder that many are skeptical

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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
55. It's not even the cover-up,...
it's allowing priests with a known pattern of abuse to continue to abuse, in a different location.

It would be one thing if, when a particular priest has been discovered, he had been removed from responsibility and shuffled off someplace where he could no longer do any harm. But the church didn't do that. They took these abuser priests and just foisted them onto a different parish, where the abuse started anew.

It would be bad enough if they "only" covered up the problem. In fact, they facilitated it.

Sid
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
6. The reason the Catholic priests made such a big story
is because of the hypocrisy and cover up and the homosexual aspects.
I have been telling everyone I know that sexual abuse is found in all avenues of society. And it fits nicely with those who have jobs where they have some authority over others, especially children.
You have probably read the stories but most people tend to slough off these stories because it doesn't hit their buttons as much as the hypocrisy of the Catholic church in this.
There are actually many cases of teacher/student abuse. About the only one anybody remembers is Mary Jo Laterneau.
And priests predominately abused girls. Hardly anyone remembers that.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
7. The title is very misleading...says they don't commit more, then in the body
of the article it says there have never been studies comparing as such...they might very well not commit more, but don;t say they outright don't if that's not the thrust of the article...stupid Newsweek...another example of pathetic journalism.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #7
29. Good catch . . .
looks like they're trying to help out the Vatican . . . !
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
11. Those "Other males" are in prison
They have no powerful protectors shielding them. Or moving them to another part of the world where they can continue to abuse children.

It's systemic and has been happening for centuries.

Reform the Church - or let it die.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Not all of them. Not a fraction of them. nt
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #14
36. The Vatican KNOWS who the sexual abusing priests are . . .
and covers up for them --

Meanwhile, in society at large we don't always find out who has sexually abused

a child -- but, when we do, they go to prison!!

And, now, they are labelled for life as child abusers!

Same should be true in the RCC -- find out who they are, report them, put them in prison --

keep them away from children for the rest of their lives!

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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #14
42. Yes, I should have qualified that
The other males that were CAUGHT.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #11
35. Absolutely . . . when caught, child abusers go to prison -- not to Rome!
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Sanity Claws Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
13. Good reason why the Church should allow women to be priests
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. I do believe they should. And let priests have relationships.
They let them marry for hundreds of years in the early church.
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Sanity Claws Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. I agree
The church just prevents its priests from marrying in order to gather more riches for itself. If priests don't have families, you don't have to provide for the families.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #18
54. Whatever the reason, it would help greatly if they did away with this. nt
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #15
44. Amen. They should just let married people, men and women
in. The 14th century was over long ago.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #13
31. It's good reason why our spiritual leaders should probably be women . ..
Edited on Sat Apr-10-10 09:44 AM by defendandprotect
give those skirts back, guys!

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zazen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
16. Wha?! One in 10 to one in FIVE males are pedophiles?
You know, I'm from the Dworkin/MacKinnon school of radical feminist analysis of male violence and I'm thinking this is a stretch.

"Experts disagree on the rate of sexual abuse among the general American male population, but Allen says a conservative estimate is one in 10. . . . Smith . . . indicates it's closer to one in 5."

Did they mean males who are themselves abused? Did they mean males who commit all forms of sexual assault, including date rape of adult females? The latter is egregious, but more in keeping with the general acculturation of males than up to 1 in 5 men actually want to have sex with pre-pubescent children of either gender.

From what I understand, the urge to have sex with pre-pubescent children, as opposed to teenagers who are still underage and should be left alone of course (cultural approval of marriages of 13-year-olds be damned), is really triggered by something very different than the desire to abuse persons you recognize as sexually mature. It's also much more closely linked to being sexually abused one's self as a child. Sexually abusing a girlfriend, wife, or a stranger is more in keeping with other awful cultural norms, but ones that are more widespread and not as linked to personal victimization.



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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. Given the number of children each pedophile typically abuses....
there would be no child left untouched if even 10% of the population were acting out.

I call BS on those statistics.
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zazen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. Good pt. I just think they misread "# of sexually abus_ed_" as # of sexual abusers
I can believe that 1 in 10 males are sexually abused as children, given the stories male friends have told me about coaches, Boy Scout counselors, and other nasty situations in their youth. I used not to have a frame a reference for it, but looking back at the experiences guy friends have told me about, I'd say that 1 in 10 males had some sort of unwanted sexual contact by an older male by the time they were 15.

I bet the Newsweek writer just misinterpreted the statistics. That's a shocker.
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Jim__ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. Those numbers apply to general sex abuse by males.
Edited on Sat Apr-10-10 09:33 AM by Jim__
IOW 1 in 10 (or maybe 1 IN 5) males commit some kind of sexual abuse. For the RCC priests, the number is 4% of priests, but these are not all pedophilia. There is a technical definition for pedophilia, and even some sex crimes against children are not technically pedophilia.
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zazen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. I can believe the 1 in 10 commit general sexual abuse. . . that's plausible
But they are not guilty of, as you say, the technical, or even slightly broader, definition of pedophilia.



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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #16
37. Hetereosexual Males are 100X more likely to sexually abuse children . . .
From "same-sex -- marriage in the United States
Focus on the Facts" -- Sean Cahill, PH.D
Lexington Books -- 2004
See: Footnote

A 1998 Study in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that 90% of pedophiles are men, and 95% of these individuals are hetereosexual.

Research has indicated that gay men and lesbians are less likely than heteeosexual to sexually abuse children.

Perhaps the most egregious and damaging claim promulgaed by anti-gay groups is the claim that homosexuality is intrinisically linked to pedophiia and child sexual abuse.

The social science research on sexual orientation and child sexual abuse clearly disproves the claim that homosexuals are more likely to molest children. A 1998 study in the Journal of the American Medical Assocation found that 90% of pedophiles are men, and 95% of these individuals are hetereosexual. One researcher explained this statistic by noting, "Gay men desire consensual sexual relations with other adult men. Pedophiles are usually adult men who are sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children. They are rarely sexually attracted to other adults. In fact, research has indicated that gay men and lesbians are LESS likely than heterosexuals to sexually abuse children. Two studies that examined the sexual orientation of convicted child molesters found that less than 1% in one study and 0% in the other were lesbian or gay.

One psychologist reviewed the existing social science literature on the relationship between sexuality and child sexual abuse and found that "a gay man is no more likely than a straight man to perpetrate sexual activity with children." Further, "cases of perpetration of sexual behavior with a pre-pubescent child by an adult lesbian are virtually nonexistent."

Gay rights activists, like all advocates for children's welfare, oppose child sexual abuse and support equitable age of consent laws that help prevent and punish such abuse.

At least 110,000 children are waiting to be adopted in the US. Approximately 588,000 children are currently in foster care. Barring gay men and lebians from adopting or foster parenting decreases the number of potential suitable homes for children in need.
Children who remain in foster care for much of their childhood, as do tens of thousands of American children, are more likely to have emotional problems. Some children in foster care live in 20 or more homes by the time they reach the age of 18. Barring gay men and lesbians from adopting or foster parenting is not simply unjust and unethical; it also decreases the number of potential suitable homes for children in need.
Research shows that children raised by gay and lesbian parents are not disadvantaged vis-a-vis their peers raised by hetereosexual parents.

Footnote 65 -- p.123

A review of 352 medical records of children evaluated for sexual abuse during a 12-month period at a Denver chidlren's hospital found that less than 1% had been abused by a gay man or a lesbian. Of 269 adult perpetrators of child abuse identified among the 352 cases of abuse, only two were gay or lesbian. The vast majority of the children in the study (82%) "were suspected of being abused by a man or a woman who was, or had been, in a hetereosexual relationship with a relative of the child." And the review concluded that in this sample, " a child's risk of being molested by his or her relative's heterosexual partner is over 100X greater by someone who might be identifiable as being homosexual, lesbian, or bisexual."
Jenny, C., and Roesler, T.A. (1994)

Are children at risk for sexual abuse by homosexuals? Pediatrics. 94(1).p.44.
In an earlier study of convicted male child molesters in Massachusetts, none of the 175 men were found to have an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation or to be primarily attracted to other adult men.

Groth, A.N., and Birnbaum, H.J. (1978).
Adult sexual orientation and attraction to underage persons.
Archives of Sexual Behavior.7(3).pp.175-181.

Also : The right-wing "Family Research Council" notes/confirms findings that "almost all child sexual abuse is committed by men."
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #37
53. Thank you. Very enlightening.
We KNOW these things, but it's good to have them backed up with real data.
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Sheepshank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
19. I wonder about the comparative percentages
of mothers and other family members that actually and physically deliver their child into the hands of a priest pedophile (like lambs to the slaughter) vs. mothers and family members delivering their child into the hands of 'other' pedophiles. That position of trust extends in many directions and there are parents that are having to deal with the idea that they did not adequately protect their children because they too were duped. How many parents ignored their kids pleas for help in favor of the priest?
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #19
60. Look to Ireland for an answer to that.
A child reporting abuse by a priest ran the risk of the wrath of family, community and state.
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
22. Ignoring the fact that priests are NOT LIKE any other males - they are
supposedly "called to a vocation" and spend years training, praying and reflecting on that calling. They are sent into the world to serve as spiritual representatives of the church, in whom people trust, come to for advice and comfort.
They are supposed to help and advise and guide people, not fuck them and lie about it.

I guess Newsweek forgot that part.
So did the pope.

mark
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edhopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
25. It's like reading a study
that says "Police are no more likely to commit crimes than the general population." and saying, well that's okay, they aren't worse than anyone else.
This is NOT the standard they are held to.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
27. "almost all child sexual abuse is committed by men."---
Edited on Sat Apr-10-10 09:41 AM by defendandprotect
Right Wing "Family Research Council" notes/confirms findings that "almost all child sexual abuse is committed by men."

From "same-sex -- marriage in the United States
Focus on the Facts" -- Sean Cahill, PH.D
Lexington Books -- 2004
See: Footnote

A 1998 Study in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that 90% of pedophiles are men, and 95% of these individuals are hetereosexual.

Research has indicated that gay men and lesbians are less likely than heteeosexual to sexually abuse children.

Perhaps the most egregious and damaging claim promulgaed by anti-gay groups is the claim that homosexuality is intrinisically linked to pedophiia and child sexual abuse.
The social science research on sexual orientation and child sexual abuse clearly disproves the claim that homosexuals are more likely to molest children. A 1998 study in the Journal of the American Medical Assocation found that 90% of pedophiles are men, and 95% of these individuals are hetereosexual. One researcher explained this statistic by noting, "Gay men desire consensual sexual relations with other adult men. Pedophiles are usually adult men who are sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children. They are rarely sexually attracted to other adults. In fact, research has indicated that gay men and lesbians are LESS likely than heterosexuals to sexually abuse children. Two studies that examined the sexual orientation of convicted child molesters found that less than 1% in one study and 0% in the other were lesbian or gay. One psychologist reviewed the existing social science literature on the relationship between sexuality and child sexual abuse and found that "a gay man is no more likely than a straight man to perpetrate sexual activity with children." Further, "cases of perpetration of sexual behavior with a pre-pubescent child by an adult lesbian are virtually nonexistent."

Gay rights activists, like all advocates for children's welfare, oppose child sexual abuse and support equitable age of consent laws that help prevent and punish such abuse.

At least 110,000 children are waiting to be adopted in the US. Approximately 588,000 children are currently in foster care. Barring gay men and lebians from adopting or foster parenting decreases the number of potential suitable homes for children in need.
Children who remain in foster care for much of their childhood, as do tens of thousands of American children, are more likely to have emotional problems. Some children in foster care live in 20 or more homes by the time they reach the age of 18. Barring gay men and lesbians from adopting or foster parenting is not simply unjust and unethical; it also decreases the number of potential suitable homes for children in need.
Research shows that children raised by gay and lesbian parents are not disadvantaged vis-a-vis their peers raised by hetereosexual parents.

Footnote 65 -- p.123
A review of 352 medical records of children evaluated for sexual abuse during a 12-month period at a Denver chidlren's hospital found that less than 1% had been abused by a gay man or a lesbian. Of 269 adult perpetrators of child abuse identified among the 352 cases of abuse, only two were gay or lesbian. The vast majority of the children in the study (82%) "were suspected of being abused by a man or a woman who was, or had been, in a hetereosexual relationship with a relative of the child." And the review concluded that in this sample, " a child's risk of being molested by his or her relative's heterosexual partner is over 100X greater by someone who might be identifiable as being homosexual, lesbian, or bisexual."
Jenny, C., and Roesler, T.A. (1994)
Are children at risk for sexual abuse by homosexuals? Pediatrics. 94(1).p.44.
In an earlierstudy of convicted male child molesters in Massachusetts, none of the 175 men were found to have an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation orto be primarily attracted to other adult men.
Groth, A.N., and Birnbaum, H.J. (1978).
Adult sexual orientation and attraction to underage persons.
Archives of Sexual Behavior.7(3).pp.175-181.

Also : The right-wing "Family Research Council" notes/confirms findings that "almost all child sexual abuse is committed by men."
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zazen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #27
34. and this is where rigid distinctions between het/gay break down
W/r/t adults, the men are "attracted" to women (probably for all of the societal and family benefits that buys them); but they prey on boys. I don't think of these guys as straight or gay (or bisexual). I think of them as having an entirely different (fucked up) sexual identity that doesn't fit into any of the above categories.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #34
38. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #34
48. Deleted message
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kgnu_fan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
41. Difference is the assumed and unquestioned POWER of Church
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
43. Deep pockets
There's a motive to sue where the Church has to pay. Many a pedophile doesn't have anything so the time to sue and get the judgment - it could cost money with not return.

Not that there is anything really wrong with that - if the priest is guilty and the church is guilty of failing to properly supervise, the person is entitled to that recovery.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
45. There's a difference between individual pedophiles and institutionalized pedophilia
The Catholic Church Priesthood is institutionalized pedophilia.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. And it carries over as . . .
pedophilia "in the name of god" . . .

That's a lot of power for a pedophile to have over children/parents!!

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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #45
56. +1....
shut 'em down.

Sid
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olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
46. One in ten or one in five males are pedophiles?
Pure unadulterated, unsubstantiated BULL SHIT! The article appears to be in large part nothing more than an apology that attempts to minimize the Catholic Church's failure to protect children and engage in a massive cover-up by claiming that it is a common occurrence.

Who can say just how extensive the abuse is when the church has used every legal dodge available to prevent unrestricted access to their secret files. When the have been pried open, the number of abuses cases was far more substantial than first admitted. Having a personal knowledge of what took place in my wife's extended family I know of six cases of sexual abuse by priests that were never reported even to the pastor of the church and have never been pursued by those who were abused. One was girl at the time and five were young boys. These kid's parents weren't aware of it and those who were molested didn't talk about it until the the scandal erupted. These cases involved four different priests. Based on these revelations, I could venture to surmise that perhaps the extent of the abuse by priests was far more extensive than it appears. I really wonder just how many kids who were abused will never reveal what happen to them.
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
47. This makes me want to vomit.
Count me as one of those guys who was "inappropriately touched" by a doctor. I was in my early 20s when it happened, and it was...in retrospect, it was just fondling under the guise of medical curiosity. No harm, no foul, no lasting damage other than some lost trust in those who claim the authority of the medical profession. I knew when it crossed the line and was too cowardly to do or say anything about it, just waiting until I could put my pants back on. I've been pissed at myself ever since for not speaking up, or at least calling the doctor on his shit while it was happening. It bothers me I gave that asshole just that much more confidence to pull similar shit with his next patient.

If a grown man, if a 20-something can be considered grown, reacts like that, though, how the hell are we to expect a child to do more? As a parent, this is the kind of thing which gives me nightmares.

The statistics provided in the article make me ill. The notion that 1 in 10 men are or could be pedophiles provides a good argument for exterminating the gender. Cut that number 10-fold and it is still unacceptable. One in a hundred is insanely high. One in a hundred isn't a pathological aberration, it's a goddamned syndrome. We market medications which affect smaller percentages of the population.

What have we done wrong which permits this kind of illness to fester? And, how the hell did the numbers get so high?

This isn't very liberal, but I strongly advocate the death penalty for pedophiles. Not the 18 year old charged in statutory rape of his/her 17 year old significant other. The sick bastard scoping out the playground. You put a rabid dog down. You may cry about it later, or lament the loss of so much potential, but you put the bastard down because you can't allow its sickness to exist in your community.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. Here's some more info on it . . . including from the rw "Family Research Council" . . .!!
From "same-sex -- marriage in the United States
Focus on the Facts" -- Sean Cahill, PH.D
Lexington Books -- 2004
See: Footnote

A 1998 Study in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that 90% of pedophiles are men, and 95% of these individuals are hetereosexual.

Research has indicated that gay men and lesbians are less likely than heteeosexual to sexually abuse children.

Perhaps the most egregious and damaging claim promulgaed by anti-gay groups is the claim that homosexuality is intrinisically linked to pedophiia and child sexual abuse.

The social science research on sexual orientation and child sexual abuse clearly disproves the claim that homosexuals are more likely to molest children. A 1998 study in the Journal of the American Medical Assocation found that 90% of pedophiles are men, and 95% of these individuals are hetereosexual. One researcher explained this statistic by noting, "Gay men desire consensual sexual relations with other adult men. Pedophiles are usually adult men who are sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children. They are rarely sexually attracted to other adults. In fact, research has indicated that gay men and lesbians are LESS likely than heterosexuals to sexually abuse children. Two studies that examined the sexual orientation of convicted child molesters found that less than 1% in one study and 0% in the other were lesbian or gay.

One psychologist reviewed the existing social science literature on the relationship between sexuality and child sexual abuse and found that "a gay man is no more likely than a straight man to perpetrate sexual activity with children." Further, "cases of perpetration of sexual behavior with a pre-pubescent child by an adult lesbian are virtually nonexistent."

Gay rights activists, like all advocates for children's welfare, oppose child sexual abuse and support equitable age of consent laws that help prevent and punish such abuse.

At least 110,000 children are waiting to be adopted in the US. Approximately 588,000 children are currently in foster care. Barring gay men and lebians from adopting or foster parenting decreases the number of potential suitable homes for children in need.
Children who remain in foster care for much of their childhood, as do tens of thousands of American children, are more likely to have emotional problems. Some children in foster care live in 20 or more homes by the time they reach the age of 18. Barring gay men and lesbians from adopting or foster parenting is not simply unjust and unethical; it also decreases the number of potential suitable homes for children in need.
Research shows that children raised by gay and lesbian parents are not disadvantaged vis-a-vis their peers raised by hetereosexual parents.

Footnote 65 -- p.123

A review of 352 medical records of children evaluated for sexual abuse during a 12-month period at a Denver chidlren's hospital found that less than 1% had been abused by a gay man or a lesbian. Of 269 adult perpetrators of child abuse identified among the 352 cases of abuse, only two were gay or lesbian. The vast majority of the children in the study (82%) "were suspected of being abused by a man or a woman who was, or had been, in a hetereosexual relationship with a relative of the child." And the review concluded that in this sample, " a child's risk of being molested by his or her relative's heterosexual partner is over 100X greater by someone who might be identifiable as being homosexual, lesbian, or bisexual."
Jenny, C., and Roesler, T.A. (1994)

Are children at risk for sexual abuse by homosexuals? Pediatrics. 94(1).p.44.
In an earlier study of convicted male child molesters in Massachusetts, none of the 175 men were found to have an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation or to be primarily attracted to other adult men.

Groth, A.N., and Birnbaum, H.J. (1978).
Adult sexual orientation and attraction to underage persons.
Archives of Sexual Behavior.7(3).pp.175-181.

Also : The right-wing "Family Research Council" notes/confirms findings that "almost all child sexual abuse is committed by men."


---------------------

And thank you for your personal story -- so right, how could children possibly protect themselves

against one of "god's" own . . . !!

And, parents, as well, were intimidated into silence very often -- though they sometimes got

somekind of therapy for the child, sometimes money.

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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
51. could be attributed to just the massive business the RC church is...
its massive membership and the huge amounts of churches and schools that it owns so it comes down to math really.

ex: 1,000 kids in a catholic school - 38 % are abused = 380 cases
50 kids in another denomination - 38% are abused = 19 cases

but making men go without sex is just not healthy, neither is believing in a fantasy.
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
52. What's the big hoopla about pederasts in the Church? It happens everywhere.
Move along...

:sarcasm:

This article strikes me as being pro sexual abuse of children simply because it says it's no big deal because it isn't just in the church.

I don't recall a single accusation that it's solely an activity of priests, but this article seems to be saying the church shouldn't be singled out.

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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
57. celibacy is unnatural.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #57
58. That's actually one of the best reasons to let Priests have relationships. nt
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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
59. That's not the fucking point
Other males don't have the wealthiest corporation in human history shielding them, covering up for them, moving them to new areas so they can find fresh victims, etc.
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