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It's OK for vegans to eat oysters (?!?!)

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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:09 PM
Original message
It's OK for vegans to eat oysters (?!?!)
Consider the Oyster

Why even strict vegans should feel comfortable eating oysters by the boatload.

Last summer, I visited a friend in San Francisco whom I hadn't seen in a while. Normally in such cases, I must gently remind my host that I eat neither meat, nor dairy, nor eggs, but my friend beat me to it: "I recall that you are a vegan," he wrote, "though one that appreciates fine oysters." Finally, someone who understands me. The trip went off without a hitchI tore into some fantastic Point Reyes bivalves to go with my green salad, and friendship and comity were reaffirmed.

Because I eat oysters, I shouldn't call myself a vegan. I'm not even a vegetarian. I am a pescetarian, or a flexitarian, or maybe there's an even more awkward word to describe my diet. At first I despaired over losing the vegan badge of honorI do everything else vegans dobut I got over it. Oysters may be animals, but even the strictest ethicist should feel comfortable eating them by the boatload.

There are dozens of reasons to become a vegan, but just two should suffice: Raising animals for food 1) destroys the planet and 2) causes those animals to suffer. Factory farms are the worst offenders, but even the best-run animal operations can't get around the fact that livestock are the largest contributors to global warming worldwide and that the same amount of land used to feed one beef-eater can feed 15 to 20 vegans. Animals are terribly inefficient machines for turning plants into food, and an inefficiency of this scale is disastrous. The animal welfare argument is even simpler: While there are limitless ways in which humans are different from nonhuman animals, one thing we share with most is the ability to feel pain. Since I consider it unethical to cause you, dear reader, undue pain, there's no reasonother than simple preference for my own speciesto have a separate standard for mammals, fish, and birds.

But what if we could find an animal that thrived in a factory-farm cage, one that subsisted on nutrients plucked from the air and that was insensate to the slaughterhouse blade? Even if that animal looked like a bunny rabbit crossed with a puppy, it would be A-OK to hack it into pieces for your dinner plate. Luckily for those of us who still haven't gotten over the death of Bambi's mother, the creature I'm thinking of is decidedly less cuddly. Biologically, oysters are not in the plant kingdom, but when it comes to ethical eating, they are almost indistinguishable from plants. Oyster farms account for 95 percent of all oyster consumption and have a minimal negative impact on their ecosystems; there are even nonprofit projects devoted to cultivating oysters as a way to improve water quality. Since so many oysters are farmed, there's little danger of overfishing. No forests are cleared for oysters, no fertilizer is needed, and no grain goes to waste to feed themthey have a diet of plankton, which is about as close to the bottom of the food chain as you can get. Oyster cultivation also avoids many of the negative side effects of plant agriculture: There are no bees needed to pollinate oysters, no pesticides required to kill off other insects, and for the most part, oyster farms operate without the collateral damage of accidentally killing other animals during harvesting. (Relatedly, although it's possible to collect wild oysters sustainably, the same cannot be said for other bivalves like clams and mussels. These are often dredged from the seabed, disrupting an entire ecosystem. For that reason, it's best to avoid them.)

http://www.slate.com/id/2248998

:popcorn: <- vegan butter
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. I guess I'm a whatever-I-want-itarian.
Though the little pile of bloody piggies ad is getting to me.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. Deleted message
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Sigh...
Posting meat pictures on vegan threads has been done to death. Try again.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Some people have no sense of humor...
From the title I thought the entire thread was intended as a joke...
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
41. If you think the same joke posted hundreds of time is funny, you have no sense of humor.
Edited on Sat Apr-10-10 02:13 PM by jgraz
And this has never really been a joke. It's been a way to bully committed vegans and vegetarians.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. Deleted message
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Oh right. So your particular choice of meat makes you a comic genius.
:eyes:

Also, fuck you for making me hungry for a KFC Double Down sandwich. :P
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #46
53. Deleted message
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #53
58. You disrupted poorly. n/t
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #41
60. Bully vegans and vegetarians?
That is trying way too hard in the victimhood department
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. How 'bout these veggies, then?
Edited on Sat Apr-10-10 12:37 PM by MineralMan
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. frutti di mare
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Nu, ess...ess a bissel...
Edited on Sat Apr-10-10 12:52 PM by MineralMan
In whatever language...it's all good. Bubbe knows best...

In my wife's Norwegian family, it's vr s god!
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lynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. A "vegan" thread about how it's okay to eat oysters???
- Get real. This is JOKE thread. It becomes a Vegan Joke thread if anyone actually believes that oysters fit into a vegan diet. Sounds like an excuse to eat seafood to me. Next they'll find a way to consider beef appropriate for a vegan diet. LOL!

Nothing worse than the sound of oysters screaming as you rip their homes apart to rape and pillage their tiny bodies.

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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. If they can genetically engineer a cow that actually WANTS to be eaten.
Like in The Restaurant at the End of the Universe.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. The cow thing has already been done
From The Onion, of course.

DESPERATE VEGETARIANS DECLARE COWS PLANTS

LAS VEGAS -- At its annual national conference Saturday, the American Association of Vegans and Vegetarians released results of a detailed in-house study determining that the common beef cow is actually a plant, 100 percent fit for vegetarian consumption.

"Contrary to what was previously thought, the cow is not a higher form of animal life, capable of thinking and feeling pain," announced AAVV spokeswoman Denise Chalmers to the large crowd. "Rather, we have found it to be a harmless, non-sentient form of plant life, utterly incapable of experiencing the slightest pain or simplest thought."

Chalmers then passed around a large tray of dripping red meat, which the vegetarians in attendance ravenously devoured, feverishly licking the bloody juice from their fingers.

According to the AAVV researchers who conducted the study, cows feature many of the basic characteristics of plants. In addition to possessing roots, leaves and branches, cows produce pollen, which in the springtime is eagerly devoured by honey bees.

"The bees swarm feverishly around the cow, eager to get a taste of its delicious nectar," Chalmers said. "The cow, however, is usually too busy taking up water through its hooves, or 'roots,' to even notice."

Cows, say researchers, also practice photosynthesis, the process by which plants convert sunlight into chemical energy.

"When exposed to sunlight, the cow produces chlorophyll," researcher Darrick Holten explained. "The cow then uses the chlorophyll to produce chemical energy."

Added Holten: "A very similar process occurs in chickens."

According to Chalmers, the study's findings will not alter the AAVV's basic viewpoint. "Animals still should not be eaten, and meat is murder," she said.
The study results also shed new light on the reproductive process of cows, which had been shrouded in mystery since the animal was discovered 200 years ago.

"Cows reproduce much like the common pine tree," Holten said. "They develop a hard, bristly, fertilized cone, drop it on the ground and await the natural elements of wind, rain and animal life to carry it to open forest territory."

Overall reaction at the conference was muted at first, as many of the vegetarians expressed surprise, then glee, at the unexpected announcement. Some rushed madly to the trays of processed lunch meats lined up on buffet tables around the hall, knocking over bystanders and onlookers in a mad dash for freshly carved roast beef.

"It does not taste anything like meat," vegetarian Tina Mothersby said. "It's chewy like a boiled carrot or even like a nice chunk of sourdough bread."

Added Chalmers: "Cows are plants, and we feel pretty silly for avoiding them for as long as we have. Inside the stockyard warehouse near my Chicago home is not a meat locker, but a plant locker, and that fetid stench is not one of cow heads festering in a maggot-covered pile, but rather of ripe vegetables ready to be prepared in myriad delicious ways."

Due to the overwhelming acceptance on the part of the vegetarian crowd, the AAVV announced plans to move ahead with studies proving that the pig and duck are plants. Mutton, however, is still meat. -- Janury 23, 1996
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I love meat. But wow, that's disgusting. n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Wow! That's tellin' 'em!
Yessir.
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MyNameGoesHere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
33. I don't get vegans either
every civilized being knows that the Breatharian way is much more humane and civilized way to live. Eating veggies? How crude and uninformed.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
38. DU has a collective of folks like this.
Insecure is absolutely the right word for it.
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tango-tee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #38
75. I need your advice.
I'm trying to sneak out of eating meat, but I also have a husband who feels he has not eaten a meal unless it includes meat. Can you give me a few hints on particular dishes which disguise the lack of meat? I realize that vegans go a step beyond "mere" vegetarians, but your name on DU is so familiar to me that I feel you are good source for advice.

Many years ago I made a vegetable lasagne with portobello mushrooms, spinach and artichoke hearts, and it was out of this world. Absolutely delicious. Everyone at the table was a meat eater - but no one even thought of the lack of meat in that particular dish.

Do you have any suggestions for cookbooks? Perhaps hints on how to take it a step at a time so DH won't balk?

Thank you so much in advance!
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #75
86. No such thing as a "mere" vegetarian.
BUT! For your question, I highly recommend that you check out our little group here on DU, the Veggie Group http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=231

We've got mad, mad, mad recipes and cookbook rec's that bill with the Gods!

AND...we won't tell your husband!
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tango-tee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 05:47 AM
Response to Reply #86
87. Great idea!
I'll do that! Thanks...
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MattBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #75
92. WHat you are suggesting should be a legal reason for an uncontested divorce
with no chance for alimony. Trying to trick a man into eating meatless meals is cruel, unusual, and a crime against huMANity.
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HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. I only have one response to that...
:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

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endless october Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
27. i am not a vegetarian, but..
that doesn't even look good. for the calories, i can think of a million better things to eat, meat or no.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
40. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
subaltern Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
51. I'm a meat eater. However,
one might as well just start driving to the emergency room upon bighting into that.
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. So presumably clams, scallops and mussels are also OK?
Would that include octopus? They are said to exhibit quite complex behaviors?

How about crawfish, shrimp, and lobsters?

Choclate covered ants? Fried grasshopper?

Where to draw the line....?
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. For this author, no -- clams and mussels are addressed in the last line of the OP
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eShirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
21. here clams are dug from mud flats using hand tools, not dredged up from the ocean floor
does that make them ok for vegans?
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Potatoes of the sea...verily...
Edited on Sat Apr-10-10 12:51 PM by MineralMan
You may eat of those.
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eShirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. woot!
Edited on Sat Apr-10-10 12:54 PM by eShirl
"pommes de mer"
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. But, of the shrimps that swim, thou mayest not eat.
Edited on Sat Apr-10-10 12:55 PM by MineralMan
And shun the lobster, for it is a shrimp, and is an abomination.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. LOL
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
55. Mussels are farmed sustainably.
I think that mussels raised by the French method are possibly less damaging to the ecosystem than is oyster farming.

French traditional mussels culture obtains sustainability recognition.
http://www.worldfishingtoday.com/news/default.asp?nyId=5152

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d_r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
29. I was thinking mussels, too
They are invertebrates, farmed efficiently. I'd have to think that octopi, even though they are invertebrates, would be a no-no for someone concerned with causing a creature pain; they show reactions to avoid painful stimuli, and you are right, they have complex behaviors. Crawfish are routinely farmed, but I've known people who wouldn't eat crawfish and shrimp because they were grossed out by the simple digestive system - I guess some people might object to oysters as filter feeders on that sort of ground, even if farmed.

Personally I love oysters, but I usually only eat the fried now unlike when I was a kid and gobbled them raw; got sick like that in grad school. When I was a kid we would take a boat out to the oyster bar with post hole diggers and a bottle of hot sauce and shuck oysters in the sun.
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Webster Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'm hooked on Tomales Bay oysters.
They are the best I've ever had. We throw them on the grill, and add a little butter and hot sauce when they open. Yum!:9
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Brother Buzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
64. Grilling is my preferred method, too, although I prefer BBQ sauce over hot sauce
I'm a Hog Island oyster fan myself. I was introduced to one of the boys before they even got started and listened to what I thought was a BS 'Pie-in-the-sky' story. Who would have thought they actually pulled it off.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #64
70. Grilling is pretty good, but nothing beats a raw, unadorned oyster.
Nothing.
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Brother Buzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. I've shucked my share and enjoy them....
plain, with lemon, or hot sauce.

But on a cold day, grilled oysters are the way to go. My BBQ sauce is Legendary among my circle of friends.
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tango-tee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #72
76. Care to share your recipe, Brother Buzz?
I'm salivating...

Please let us in on it! I've been using a wonderful recipe from the Farm House Cook Book which has been well received among family and friends, but I'm ready for a change.

Please? Pretty please?
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
16. AAACK!!! MY SECRET IS EXPOSED!!1
:rofl:

No, of course it's not "ok" for an actual vegan to eat oysters. Not that I wouldn't belittle someone that was otherwise vegan except for the once every rare while plate of oysters. That person isn't a vegan, but they're still living pretty damn low on the food chain most of the time, and that's important.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
18. Oysters not cute and cuddly?
Edited on Sat Apr-10-10 12:52 PM by Crunchy Frog


The sun was shining on the sea,
Shining with all his might:
He did his very best to make
The billows smooth and bright--
And this was odd, because it was
The middle of the night.


The moon was shining sulkily,
Because she thought the sun
Had got no business to be there
After the day was done--
"It's very rude of him," she said,
"To come and spoil the fun!"


The sea was wet as wet could be,
The sands were dry as dry.
You could not see a cloud, because
No cloud was in the sky:
No birds were flying overhead--
There were no birds to fly.


The Walrus and the Carpenter
Were walking close at hand;
They wept like anything to see
Such quantities of sand:
"If this were only cleared away,"
They said, "it would be grand!"


"If seven maids with seven mops
Swept it for half a year.
Do you suppose," the Walrus said,
"That they could get it clear?"
"I doubt it," said the Carpenter,
And shed a bitter tear.


"O Oysters, come and walk with us!"
The Walrus did beseech.
"A pleasant walk, a pleasant talk,
Along the briny beach:
We cannot do with more than four,
To give a hand to each."


The eldest Oyster looked at him,
But never a word he said:
The eldest Oyster winked his eye,
And shook his heavy head--
Meaning to say he did not choose
To leave the oyster-bed.


But four young Oysters hurried up,
All eager for the treat:
Their coats were brushed, their faces washed,
Their shoes were clean and neat--
And this was odd, because, you know,
They hadn't any feet.


Four other Oysters followed them,
And yet another four;
And thick and fast they came at last,
And more, and more, and more--
All hopping through the frothy waves,
And scrambling to the shore.


The Walrus and the Carpenter
Walked on a mile or so,
And then they rested on a rock
Conveniently low:
And all the little Oysters stood
And waited in a row.


"The time has come," the Walrus said,
"To talk of many things:
Of shoes--and ships--and sealing-wax--
Of cabbages--and kings--
And why the sea is boiling hot--
And whether pigs have wings."


"But wait a bit," the Oysters cried,
"Before we have our chat;
For some of us are out of breath,
And all of us are fat!"
"No hurry!" said the Carpenter.
They thanked him much for that.


"A loaf of bread," the Walrus said,
"Is what we chiefly need:
Pepper and vinegar besides
Are very good indeed--
Now if you're ready, Oysters dear,
We can begin to feed."


"But not on us!" the Oysters cried,
Turning a little blue.
"After such kindness, that would be
A dismal thing to do!"
"The night is fine," the Walrus said.
"Do you admire the view?


"It was so kind of you to come!
And you are very nice!"
The Carpenter said nothing but
"Cut us another slice:
I wish you were not quite so deaf--
I've had to ask you twice!"


"It seems a shame," the Walrus said,
"To play them such a trick,
After we've brought them out so far,
And made them trot so quick!"
The Carpenter said nothing but
"The butter's spread too thick!"


"I weep for you," the Walrus said:
"I deeply sympathize."
With sobs and tears he sorted out
Those of the largest size,
Holding his pocket-handkerchief
Before his streaming eyes.


"O Oysters," said the Carpenter,
"You've had a pleasant run!
Shall we be trotting home again?'
But answer came there none--
And this was scarcely odd, because
They'd eaten every one.

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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
19. But they have a face!
I think..... somewhere.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
24. Eating an animal is, by definition, not vegan.
No matter how low on the food chain or how simple in biology that animal is. That guy totally can't play in our tree fort. /vegan police
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. But the ethical question is interesting, no?
:shrug:
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. I don't really think there is one.
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madmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
26. But do they feel pain?
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #26
35. No nervous system
If they can possibly feel pain, then corn can possibly feel pain.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #35
56. They have nervous systems. Very simple ones, but there nevertheless.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #56
65. Cool. Thanks for the info!
Always like being proven wrong with interesting new facts.
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yewberry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
28. "I shouldn't call myself a vegan. I'm not even a vegetarian."
And there you go. Neither vegan nor vegetarian.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
31. I have wondered why...
anyone eats oysters...:D

I have also wondered who was the fist person to actually smash the thing open and try it? Those shells are particularly hard, and I figure shucking then back in the stone age was pretty much out of the question, since these days, it is tough enough.

Some things are better left alone...who caught the first shark and decided it tasted good? After losing a few digits or an arm, you'd think discretion would be the order of the day...:D
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #31
91. You only need to sit by the shore and watch the gulls.
They'll gladly eat mollusks, flying them high and dropping them
on the rocks to crack them open so the odds were pretty fair that
mollusks aren't too poisonous.

Tesha
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
34. No. it's not.
By way of disclosure, I'm a meat eater (did you know that pigs are the candy store of the meat world?) but my family has been vegetarian for 30+ years.

If you eat oysters you are not even vegetarian, let alone vegan.

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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
39. It's OK for vegans to eat dolphin meat as far as I'm concerned
Since all things are immaterial and food is a thing, then food is immaterial so it doesn't matter what you eat.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. You should probably stick to the gungeon.
Applying gunny logic to other issues is always an EPIC FAIL.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. I've been studying Tibetan Buddhism
Edited on Sat Apr-10-10 02:23 PM by slackmaster
They eat meat. Read up on it.

BTW, I just bought two dozen live Blue Point oysters. They've been farmed on the Connecticut and Long Island, NY shores for more than 100 years.

http://www.blueislandoyster.com/bluepointoysterfarm.html

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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. OK, now I'm just jealous of you.
We rarely get Blue Points out here, though Tomales Bay oysters are pretty good.

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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
42. I think the author of the article is confusing vegan diets with ethical diets.
Vegan diets are pretty cut and dry. The only "controversy" is in jokes; "Can vegans swallow?"

Ethical diets are more open to interpretation.

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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. Good point... though many vegans are vegans because they feel it's the only ethical diet.
The question is: do oysters fit within the ethics of a vegan diet?
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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
48. I'm a confirmed meat-a-tarian & I refuse to eat oysters
does that make me a vegan? :sarcasm:

I still don't get why some on DU feel they need to push vegans/vegetarians around. :shrug:

dg
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Do you feel this post is intended to "push vegans/vegetarians around"?
That's certainly not my intention. I'm very active in animal rescue and the humane farming movement. I'm interested in dietary ethics. The only point of the post is to generate a discussion.

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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. You maybe not, but other responders, yes
They see posts like this & like moths to a flame, come running with their vegan/veggie jokes at the ready.

I wouldn't eat oysters, shellfish, shrimp, or anything else that eats off the bottom, like catfish.

dg
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #50
59. Can vegans eat mushrooms?
Or must they eat only things in kingdom Plantae?

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eukaryota

See also alternative classsification into unikont and bikonts, where I think that vegans may be restricted to Archaeplastida.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Of course.
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. How about sea cucumbers?
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. Nope. Can't eat sea apples either.
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superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #50
89. Do you really think there can ever be a "discussion" of veganism on DU?
I think you greatly overestimate the average DUer.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #89
90. Sigh, you're probably right.
I'm about as carnivorous as they come but I don't understand the hostility directed at someone who's simply trying to live by a strong ethical code. Veganism makes a helluva lot more sense than any religion ever invented.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
54. Good grief. I haven't seen a head twisted around that far since "The Exorcist."
The closing line about clams and mussels reveals a lack of understanding on how and where most mussels grow. Clams requiring some digging. Mussels don't. In general, mussels attach to rocks and are exposed at low tide. Farmed mussels are tricked into attaching to ropes or similar devices.Dredging for them would be stupid.

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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
57. I'm a strict vegan...
except for the nice juicy prime roast that I have on occasion. :9

I still get to count myself as a vegan, right?
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TK421 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #57
68. I think that would make you a vegan part-timer....and prime rib roast is
one of my weaknesses.

Those are your kids in your sigline? They're adorable!
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Flubadubya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
66. Vegetarian Classifications...
Classifications of Vegetarians:


The two (well, four) most common types of vegetarians are:

Lacto-ovo vegetarians dont eat beef, poultry, or fish, but do eat eggs and dairy products. (Similarly, lacto vegetarians consume dairy but not eggs while ovo vegetarians eat eggs but dont consume dairy.)

Vegans consume no animal products or animal by-products. This means no beef, poultry, fish, eggs, or dairy (many vegans also avoid honey). Veganism also extends beyond the diet. Vegans avoid leather, wool, silk, down, etc. Some people use the term strict vegetarian for people who follow a vegan diet but still use animal products in other parts of their lives.

There are also some restrictive subcategories of veganism:

Fruitarians eat raw fruit and seeds only.

Raw/living foodists eat at least 75% uncooked (items may be heated up to 110 degrees), unprocessed, organic fruits and vegetables, with the intention of preserving more vitamins and minerals. There are very few pure raw foodists though many people eat raw at least occasionally.

Then there are the classifications of vegetarians that arent really vegetarians. Their inclusion here does not imply an acceptance of these often confusing, misleading terms, but rather to serve as a reference.

Pesco-vegetarians eat no beef or poultry but do eat fish.
Pollo-vegetarians eat no beef, but do eat poultry.
Semi-vegetarians or Flexitarians eat less meat (than who? Most people? Themselves, before? Ted Nugent?)
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. By way of comparison
Inuit diet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit_diet

Inuit consume a diet of foods that are fished, hunted, and gathered locally. This may include walrus, ringed seal, bearded seal, beluga whale, polar bear, berries, and fireweed. According to Edmund Searles in his article Food and the Making of Modern Inuit Identities, they consume this type of diet because a mostly meat diet is effective in keeping the body warm, making the body strong, keeping the body fit, and even making that body healthy.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. The Inuit?
As a comparison to what?

Searles should have added to his article that they consume that type of diet because they can't grow shit where they are.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #66
88. There's Lacto-Vege-Lesbyterian restaurant in my neighborhood
Edited on Sun Apr-11-10 10:07 AM by slackmaster
Some of the people who work there are kind of flaky but the owner is very kind and the food is pretty good.

(Anyone who lives in San Diego is likely to know exactly what place I'm referring to.)
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Flubadubya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
67. delete dupe
Edited on Sat Apr-10-10 06:28 PM by Flubadubya
:shrug:
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
73. Summary of the article:
It's ok for vegans to eat oysters because I'm a vegan and I love oysters and I can create a convoluted rationalization to eat them.
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #73
80. The author plainly states that he cannot label himself a vegan.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
74. It's OK for vegans to eat oysters.
Hell, it's OK for vegans to give up the whole thing. I recommend it.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #74
77. What whole thing?
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #77
78. The whole vegan thing.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #78
79. Yeah, well much like asking Bornagin*heh to give up being a total fucking douchebag
Edited on Sun Apr-11-10 01:46 AM by flvegan
probably not gonna happen.

*pinches cheeks*
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #79
81. Listen, I understand why you're bitter.
But it's OK to give it up. Nobody's impressed. I mean, Catholic priests have been pretending to want this whole celibacy thing for many hundreds of years, and it's not working out for them. You only live once.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #81
82. Heh.
Edited on Sun Apr-11-10 01:46 AM by flvegan
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #82
84. Why would I be bitter?
I can choose to eat both meat or vegetables, because I don't have some silly, phony ascetic code I live to.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #84
85. Heh.
Edited on Sun Apr-11-10 01:45 AM by flvegan
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #78
93. Would you be satisfied if flvegan began eating oysters but otherwise...
continued to live a vegan lifestyle?
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
83. "My robe, Antoninus."
"My taste includes both snails and oysters."

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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
94. Eww
I cannot bring myself to eat any of that stuff that so closely resembles phlegm.
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