The Vatican has decided to 'forgive' the Beatles.

[ZeitgeistObserver]

Monday, Apr 12 2010
Forty years on, Vatican tells Beatles: We love you, yeah, yeah, yeah
By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 9:06 PM on 11th April 2010

The Vatican has forgiven The Beatles on the 40th anniversary of their break-up - as sex scandals continue to rock the Catholic Church.

Absolving the British group of their excesses involving 'drugs and blasphemy', the Vatican's newspaper L'Osservatore Romano hailed them as a 'precious jewel'.

In a front-page article, it said: 'It's true they took drugs, lived life to excess because of their success, even said they were bigger than Jesus and put out mysterious messages, that were possibly even Satanic


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1265220/Forty-years-Vatican-tells-Beatles-We-love-yeah-yeah-yeah.html

[malaise]

1. Fuck the Vatican

as if anyone gives a flying fugg who they forgive or don't forgive. They fugging forgive pedophiles - that says all I need to know about them.

[givemebackmycountry]

21. You read my mind.

Fuck the Vatican.
Forgive the Beatles, give me a break.
One thing that's not going to be forgiven, are the Roman Catholic Priests that have funny ideas about what they can, and can not do, with their dicks.

Bastards.

[ccharles000]

55. +1

[struggle4progress]

61. Vatican picks the Beatles and Oasis among its top ten albums (February 2010)

Vatican picks the Beatles and Oasis among its top ten albums
Many would consider them a rather ungodly collection of rockers, Sixties drug-takers and hell-raisers - but they have all been given the holy seal of approval from the Vatican.
By Nick Squires in Rome
Published: 6:22PM GMT 14 Feb 2010

... 1. Revolver by the Beatles
2. If I could Only Remember My Name by David Crosby
3. The Dark Side of the Moon by Pink Floyd
4. Rumours by Fleetwood Mac
5. The Nightfly by Donald Fagen
6. Thriller by Michael Jackson
7. Graceland by Paul Simon
8. Achtung Baby by U2
9. (What's the story) Morning Glory by Oasis
10. Supernatural by Carlos Santana ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/vaticancityandholysee/7236258/Vatican-picks-the-Beatles-and-Oasis-among-its-top-ten-albums.html

[Lugnut]

65. +100 n/t

[truebrit71]

83. [phone]

..

[Soylent Brice]

84. ***STANDING OVATION***

:applause:

[AngryOldDem]

88. +100,000

It's just the Vatican's way of trying to stay hip and current.

Not working, Rome -- but you've got your own massive, stinking, maggot-infested pile of shit to clean up, without having to worry about pop culture. Get to work, shut the fuck up, and leave the rest of us alone. Thanks.

[dmr]

91. As the Beatles would say "Fook the fookin' Vatican"

I actually thought this was from the Onion. The whole forgiveness is a joke, there is nothing to forgive.

[Liberal_in_LA]

97. +100,001

[walldude]

2. Yeah this is gonna help...

Fuck why can't they just admit it and get rid of the damn priests? As it stands anyone who enters a Catholic Church is supporting child abuse.

[harkadog]

25. They have been plenty of teachers caught up in sexual abuse of kids

Does anyone who sends their kids to school support child abuse?

[walldude]

30. Were the teachers removed from their jobs? Did the schools cover for them?

Were they arrested? Did the school send the teachers to another school serving up more kids to be abused? NO.

Nice try. Not only has the Church not taken any responsibility or removed any of the priests from their positions, they have accused the victims, the jews and the press of "petty gossip" as the pope put it. One lovely priest claimed the kids wanted it and the poor priests have to be careful around them. Did the school call the abuse of children "PETTY GOSSIP"? YEah I didn't think so. Also the church has taken priests who have committed crimes against children and moved them to places with MORE CHILDREN.

So the answer to your pathetic attempt to defend the church and it's believers is NO the people who go to schools where child abuse is a crime and people lose their jobs and go to PRISON are not supporting Child Abuse. But if you go into a Catholic Church and donate money while they continue to lie, coverup and propagate crimes, fuck yes you are supporting Child Abuse. Sorry if the reality is painful for you but it is reality.

[TexasProgresive]

73. School districts did the same thing

The keep it under wraps. The guilty were offered deals where if they resigned quietly they would be given letters of recommendations allowing them to get employed in other districts. The same thing happened in other then Catholic denominations but like the schools they don't have a strong central structure to target by lawyers and media.

I don't want to give anybody a break on this, but to concentrate only on the Catholic Church is to turn blind eyes to what is a pervasive problem in our society.

[harkadog]

102. Yes and Yes

Nice try at covering for the schools. Don't you ever read/listen to news?

[rurallib]

32. And they are dealt with, unlike the priest who molested me.

let me just say that it was not pleasant having to return and see this SOB everyday.

[Dorian Gray]

76. Ouch

I am so so sorry that you had to live through that. A horrible experience for any child, and always unexcusable.

[harkadog]

103. Many many times they are not dealt with.

This comes up in the news constantly.

[rationalcalgarian]

99. Education is necessary,

religion is not.

When a teacher gets caught, a teacher goes to prison. When a priest gets caught, a priest gets transferred to a new parish for new victims.

No comparison.

[harkadog]

104. A teacher giving physical sex education to a child is not necessary.

Teachers are often not caught as other cover for him/her. Or they are sent to other schools. It is just the same. Nice try at a cover up for teachers.

[Webster Green]

3. Not fromThe Onion either.

This is surely the weirdest planet in the galaxy. :wtf:

[deutsey]

5. I was certain this was from The Onion

but it ended up being further proof that I've somehow been sucked into a strange alternate universe.

[Ichingcarpenter]

69. Vatican decides to forgive Jesus

for being a Jew. News breaking next week

I thought it was an Onion title too at first.

[struggle4progress]

59. Nope. It's from the Daily Mail. And it's actually several years old, at that:

P.S. I Love You: Vatican newspaper to Beatles
Last Updated: Saturday, November 22, 2008 | 3:41 PM ET
CBC News

The Vatican's newspaper, Osservatore Romano, has come out lauding the Beatles while forgiving a remark by John Lennon declaring the Fab Four more famous than Jesus Christ ...

Lennon, who was killed in 1980, was shaken by the reaction and addressed the controversy in a news conference in Chicago on Aug. 11, 1966:

"I'm sorry I said it, really. I never meant it to be a lousy anti-religious thing. I apologize if that will make you happy. I still do not know quite what I've done."

The Vatican accepted the apology ...

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/11/22/beatles-vatican-newspaper.html#ixzz0krG6BoQ6

[ZeitgeistObserver]

63. It's from L'Osservatore Romano today

The item you're posting is about their forgiveness of Lennon 2 years ago, also mentioned in today's article.

[struggle4progress]

79. ... It is not the first time the Vatican has praised the legendary band from Liverpool. Two years

ago, Vatican media hailed the Beatles' musical legacy on the 40th anniversary of the "White Album." And last month the Vatican paper included "Revolver" in its semiserious list of top-10 albums ... Giovanni Maria Vian, the editor in chief of L’Osservatore Romano, told The A.P. that he is a fan of the Beatles, and minimized John Lennon’s notorious 1966 remark that the band at that time was “more popular than Jesus.” “In reality it wasn’t that scandalous,” Mr. Vian said, “because the fascination with Jesus was so great that it attracted these new heroes of the time” ...
http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/12/forty-years-on-vatican-tells-the-beatles-they-passed-the-audition/

... In a 2008 article marking the 40th anniversary of the Beatles' "White Album" release, the Vatican newspaper, L'Osservatore Romano, issued the statement: "The remark by John Lennon, which triggered deep indignation, mainly in the United States, after many years sounds only like a 'boast' by a young working-class Englishman faced with unexpected success, after growing up in the legend of Elvis and rock and roll. The fact remains that 38 years after breaking up, the songs of the Lennon-McCartney brand have shown an extraordinary resistance to the passage of time, becoming a source of inspiration for more than one generation of pop musicians" ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_popular_than_Jesus

... On 11 August 1966, The Beatles held a press conference in Chicago, in order to address the growing controversy. The Vatican accepted his apology, but the Southern Baptist Convention did not ... http://www.search.com/reference/John_Lennon

Most of the noise around Lennon's 1966 remark came from rightwing fundamentalists in the American South, shrieking rightwing DJs of the same sort who later went after the Dixie chicks, and related mixed nuts like the KKK

[ZeitgeistObserver]

80. The Beatles are not the point.

Yesterday a public forgiveness of the group was on the front page of L'Osservatore Romano, in the midst of a serious crisis for the church.

The Beatles are not what the church should be concentrating on at the moment

[struggle4progress]

89. Here's a 2008 article, which was misleadingly covered exactly the same way by the media: "Vatican

finally forgives the Beatles." The truth, of course, is that the Vatican left this "controversy" behind decades ago

La rivoluzione bianca della banda dei quattro

di Giuseppe Fiorentino e Gaetano Vallini

"I Beatles sono più famosi di Gesù Cristo": la frase pronunciata da John Lennon, che suscitò profonda indignazione soprattutto negli Stati Uniti, dopo tanti anni suona solo come la "spacconata" di un giovanottone della working class inglese alle prese con un inatteso successo, dopo essere cresciuto nel mito di Elvis e del rock'n'roll. Eppure al talento di Lennon e degli altri tre Beatles si devono alcune delle migliori pagine della musica leggera moderna. Solo canzonette, diranno i detrattori non senza una punta di snobismo. Tutto vero. Nessuno può pensare ai Beatles come a dei geni assoluti della composizione e neppure, in fondo, come a dei virtuosi dei rispettivi strumenti. Ma resta il fatto che dopo 38 anni dallo scioglimento, le canzoni con il marchio Lennon-McCartney, hanno mostrato una straordinaria resistenza all'usura del tempo, divenendo fonte di ispirazione per più di una generazione di musicisti pop.

Esattamente 40 anni fa, il 22 novembre 1968, i Beatles pubblicavano una pietra miliare e non solo della loro discografia. Un doppio lp, senza titolo, conosciuto come The White album, "album bianco", dal colore della copertina che aveva inciso in rilievo solo il nome del gruppo. Nel 1968 i Beatles erano all'apice del successo, nonostante il fallimento del progetto Magical Mistery Tour. L'album Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, con le sue musicalità psichedeliche, la ricercatezza dei suoni, aveva portato una vera e propria rivoluzione musicale e li aveva consegnati al mito. Tuttavia non sarebbe stato quello il loro vertice creativo; un vertice che avrebbero toccato paradossalmente nel momento in cui stava già divenendo insanabile la crisi interna del gruppo, che vedeva contrapposti in particolare Paul McCartney e John Lennon, con George Harrison e Ringo Starr impotenti spettatori. Di fatto i "Fab four" non esistevano più; esistevano entità separate, musicisti di talento che si presentarono in ordine sparso negli studi di Abbey Road, ognuno con i propri musicisti a supporto. Eppure fu in un tale scenario che il White Album si concretizzò.

Fu una vera e propria cesura con il passato. Chi si aspettava un seguito alle escursioni visionarie di Sgt Pepper's e in parte di Magical Mistery Tour rimase deluso. I Beatles, lo si intuisce fin dal minimalismo della copertina, scelsero in qualche modo di tornare alle radici. Ma a modo loro, dando libero sfogo alla creatività e continuando a curare particolarmente le liriche, in alcuni casi ricreando atmosfere e nuclei narrativi. Musicalmente nell'album coesistono canzoni ispirate al rock più puro e duro, come Back In The U.S.S.R. e Helter Skelter, ballate acustiche come Blackbird o Julia, il country di Rocky Raccoon, "canzonette" come Obladi Oblada, pretenziose incursioni nello sperimentalismo come Revolution 9. Un disco di suggestive contaminazioni, cross over si direbbe oggi, un'utopia musicale dove si trova tutto e il contrario di tutto, in un assemblaggio forse discutibile ma rivelatore dello spirito di un'epoca: gli anni della contestazione giovanile, in cui - tra contraddizioni, eccessi e fughe in avanti - tutto sembrava possibile e lecito; in cui i giovani si avventuravano in terreni anche artistici fino ad allora inesplorati e ricchi di prospettive.

I Beatles in questo erano privilegiati. Osannati dai fan anche se non sempre dalla critica, attenti alle trasformazioni in atto, veri e propri investigatori della scena artistica, potevano permettersi di comporre liberamente, senza i lacci imposti dall'industria discografica. Per questo avevano fondato una loro etichetta, la Apple Records, che veniva inaugurata proprio con il White Album. Opera ambiziosissima, come detto, in cui coesistevano tutte le anime
del gruppo e in cui trovarono pari dignità anche le canzoni di George Harrison, in particolare While My Guitar Gently Weeps (in cui cedette l'"a solo" all'amico Eric "slowhand" Clapton) e persino di Ringo Starr. George Martin, il loro produttore e arrangiatore, aveva consigliato di pubblicare solo la metà dei brani; ma pur nella loro incompiutezza musicale, anche quelli considerati meno riusciti sono serviti a confezionare un'opera unica nel suo genere.

A quarant'anni di distanza l'ascolto di questo disco rende evidenti i cambiamenti verificatisi nella musica leggera. E non si tratta di cambiamenti sempre migliorativi. Quale disco potrebbe oggi contenere un brano onirico come Dear Prudence insieme con una canzone in stile anni Trenta come Honey Pie? Quale gruppo sarebbe oggi talmente libero da poter inserire in un cd un brano come Revolution 9? Attualmente i prodotti discografici appaiono per lo più standardizzati, stereotipati, ben lontani dalla creatività dei Beatles, che peraltro incidevano con apparecchiature tecniche rudimentali se rapportate a quelle odierne. E sebbene la tecnologia oggi venga in soccorso - anche troppo - del talento, esperienze d'ascolto come quelle offerte dai Beatles sono davvero rare.

Più orientata a sfornare modelli consumistici musicali, soprattutto a livello d'immagine, che a produrre musica vera e propria, l'industria discografica sacrifica troppo spesso fantasia e creatività. I Beatles agli inizi degli anni Sessanta si proposero come modello attraverso la loro musica, diventando solo con l'arrivo del successo personaggi da emulare. La loro rivoluzione passò prima di tutto attraverso le canzoni. Era la loro musica a essere originale ancor prima del loro abbigliamento o del loro taglio di capelli. Rappresentarono certo anche un fenomeno di costume, ma sostenuto soprattutto dal valore creativo della loro produzione musicale.

Se ancora oggi, su scala planetaria, ci sono ragazzi - oltre che nostalgici ultraquarantenni - che acquistano e ascoltano i dischi dei Beatles vuol dire che, al di là delle mode del momento, resta il fascino delle loro canzoni. Di quella strana alchimia di suoni e parole che probabilmente non si è più realizzata nella storia della musica leggera, nemmeno nei suoi episodi più felici. Non che all'epoca, nel 1968 e giù di lì, i Beatles fossero amati da tutti. Molti, soprattutto negli ambienti più duri della contestazione giovanile, li consideravano troppo sdolcinati e intimistici, preferendo espressioni più ruvide o ritenute più "impegnate" del rock. Ma il tempo ha dato ragione ai quattro ragazzi di Liverpool. E mentre di molti gruppi di allora si è persa traccia, la stella dei Beatles appare ancora intramontabile. Malgrado permanga nella pubblicistica una grande sproporzione tra agiografia e analisi, è indubbio che il loro vero talento risiedeva nell'ineguagliata capacità di comporre canzoni popolari (pop) con quella sorta di euforica leggerezza che costituisce un autentico marchio di fabbrica. E il White Album, pur nella sua eclettica unicità, non sfugge a questa regola. Quarant'anni dopo resta una sorta di magico florilegio musicale: trenta canzoni da sfogliare e ascoltare a piacimento, certi di trovarvi delle perle a tutt'oggi inarrivate.
(© L'Osservatore Romano - 22 novembre 2008)

Here, for example, is a HuffPo article from 2008 making the same mistaken claim that "the Vatican has finally forgiven the Beatles":

Vatican Officially "Forgives" John Lennon For Jesus Joke
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/22/vatican-officially-forgiv_n_145775.html

It was nonsensical anti-Catholic stereotyping in 2008. And it's still nonsensical anti-Catholic stereotyping today

[ZeitgeistObserver]

90. Yes, you've said that several times now.

But it still has nothing to do with the front page article yesterday in L'Osservatore Romano 'forgiving' the Beatles when the church should be focussing on more important things.

[struggle4progress]

92. And here is the article dated 10 April 2010, which of course doesn't say what you say it says:

Il 10 aprile 1970 si scioglievano i Beatles
I sette anni che sconvolsero la musica
di Giuseppe Fiorentino e Gaetano Vallini

È vero, hanno assunto sostanze stupefacenti; travolti dal successo hanno vissuto anni scapestrati e disinibiti; in un eccesso di spacconeria hanno detto persino di essere più famosi di Gesù; si sono divertiti a lanciare messaggi misteriosi - perfino satanici stando a improbabili esegeti - assecondando voci e leggende metropolitane sulla loro vita e anche sulla presunta morte di uno di loro; certo non sono stati il migliore esempio per i giovani del tempo, ma neppure il peggiore. Tuttavia ascoltando le loro canzoni tutto questo appare lontano e insignificante. A quarant'anni dal turbolento scioglimento dei Beatles - ufficializzato il 10 aprile 1970, ma di fatto avvenuto l'anno precedente, al termine delle registrazioni di Abbey Road - restano come gioielli preziosi le loro bellissime melodie che hanno cambiato per sempre la musica leggera e continuano a regalare emozioni.
Ancora oggi i fan più incalliti si rammaricano per la fine precoce di un gruppo che aveva pubblicato il primo disco appena nel 1963. E continuano a chiedersi quali e quante altre perle avrebbero potuto regalarci i fab four se personalismi, malumori e incomprensioni non avessero incrinato irrimediabilmente un sodalizio che sembrava plasmato soprattutto sull'amicizia. Domanda legittima, ma del tutto speculativa. Più o meno volutamente - ma come fanno solo gli autentici fuoriclasse - Paul McCartney, John Lennon, George Harrison e Ringo Starr decisero di smettere all'apice del successo e della creatività. Avevano detto tutto quanto c'era da dire in quei sette anni e tredici album che cambiarono la storia della musica leggera. E forse non c'era altro da aggiungere.
Preso atto che la complicità si era dissolta anche per un'esigenza di maggiore libertà individuale, scelsero - sia pure con non poco rincrescimento da parte di qualcuno di loro - di continuare come solisti, regalandoci alcuni buoni lavori, in particolare Lennon (Imagine) e McCartney (Band On The Run) - ma non raggiungendo più le vette che solo il lavoro comune aveva reso possibili. E certo non fu facile scrollarsi di dosso cotanto passato. Loro erano stati i Beatles, il gruppo più famoso e acclamato al mondo, e per un poco il peso del mito sembrò schiacciarli.
Lo aveva presagito McCartney. Let It Be, canzone che dà il titolo all'ultimo album in ordine di pubblicazione, ma non di realizzazione, racchiude infatti il pensiero di quello che più di tutti tentò di evitare la separazione. "Lascia che sia", cantava, rilanciando le parole dettegli in sogno dalla madre Maria. Parole dalle quali traspare però l'amarezza per una fine annunciata, probabilmente inevitabile ma non per questo meno dolorosa. Paul si chiede ossessivamente: there will be an answer?, ("Ci sarà una risposta?"). In quell'aprile del 1970 la risposta attesa da milioni di fan in tutto il mondo - la notizia di una riappacificazione dei quattro - non arrivò. Così come non arrivò mai quella di una loro riunione, fosse anche per un solo, indimenticabile concerto.
Ma più che rammaricarsi di cosa non è stato, è forse più interessante porsi la domanda su come sarebbe la musica leggera senza i Beatles. Quando appena sette anni prima - ma sembra un secolo musicalmente parlando - i quattro giovanotti di Liverpool irruppero sulla scena portarono una vera rivoluzione. Di costume certo, divenendo idoli di una generazione che non vedeva l'ora di liberarsi dalle strette maglie di una cultura ritenuta troppo tradizionale e opprimente, ma soprattutto musicale. Arrivarono con la loro faccia da bravi ragazzi, sorriso furbo e sbarazzino, e sbaragliarono la concorrenza, scalando a ripetizione le classifiche nazionali ed estere con canzoni tanto semplici (in apparenza) quanto accattivanti. E soprattutto diverse: diverse nelle sonorità, nelle atmosfere, nei testi via via più complessi e raffinati, nelle suggestioni ricche di contaminazioni inimmaginabili e di sperimentazioni mai praticate. Quelle canzoni furono una ventata di novità in un panorama bloccato, se si eccettuano timide fughe in avanti.
Di quella magica alchimia creativa, un misto di genialità e di incoscienza, sono stati scritti fiumi di parole. Ma a contare davvero è il valore della loro eredità musicale che, per l'influenza che ha avuto e continua ad avere, è inestimabile. Decine e decine di gruppi si sono ispirati a loro e continuano a farlo, ne hanno ripreso le intuizioni, hanno usufruito più o meno consapevolmente della loro sperimentazione anche tecnologica. Interpreti di chiara fama hanno cantato le loro canzoni in una miriade di rivisitazioni non sempre riuscite, e ancora oggi esistono in tutto il mondo cover band che ripropongono il repertorio beatlesiano.
Un'eredità importante, dunque, che però non si esaurisce nel solo valore filologico, ma che trova la sua principale conferma nel fatto che ancora oggi, quarant'anni dopo, i loro dischi vengono ascoltati non solo da nostalgici ormai maturi ma anche da giovani, persino bambini. Prova ne è il balzo in testa alle classifiche mondiali di alcuni degli album rimasterizzati in digitale e pubblicati lo scorso settembre in una operazione certamente commerciale, ma che, nell'era degli mp3, ha consegnato il più grande gruppo di musica popolare al futuro. Basta ascoltare quei dischi per capire il perché di un successo intramontabile: alcune canzoni sembrano scritte ieri; sono degli anni Sessanta e paiono non accusare il peso del tempo che ha fatto giustizia di tanti gruppi musicali assurti a una tanto vasta quanto effimera notorietà.
Non a caso - sopravvissuti a se stessi senza esser dovuti passare attraverso la deprimente esperienza fatta da altri gruppi rock geriatrici i cui componenti ancora si ostinano a dimenarsi pateticamente sui palcoscenici a torso nudo e con jeans attillati - i Beatles restano il fenomeno più duraturo, consistente e rappresentativo della storia della musica popolare. È stata la band che per prima ha dato dignità artistica al pop, "esplorando le consuetudini della musica classica", come scrisse il critico Carl Belz, ma anche le suggestioni di altre esperienze artistiche, dalla fotografia al cinema. La loro fu un'imprevedibile evoluzione dal ruolo di semplici entertainers a quello più impegnativo di artisti, protesi, quindi, alla ricerca di nuovi linguaggi non solo musicali. Già nel 1967 Luciano Berio colse il legame sostanziale tra l'opera dei Beatles e le avanguardie, soprattutto il surrealismo, in una traslazione dall'idea di canzone a quella di "drammaturgia sonora" costruita grazie a frammenti di dialoghi, ritagli, sovrapposizioni di registrazioni.
Particolarmente attenti alle trasformazioni che investivano la scena culturale di quegli anni, i Beatles sono stati i simboli di una rivoluzione generazionale sotto la bandiera del rock, ma più ancora i geniali divulgatori di un'onda che pure altri hanno cavalcato con piglio diverso e rabbia maggiore - "Non riesco a trovare nessuna soddisfazione/ per quanto ci provi e ci riprovi", cantavano i Rolling Stones - senza però riuscire ad avere la stessa presa sul pubblico. Attraverso la loro musica quei quattro ragazzi di Liverpool, splendidi e imperfetti, sono stati capaci di leggere e di esprimere i segni di un'epoca che a tratti hanno persino indirizzato, imprimendovi un marchio indelebile. Un marchio che segna lo spartiacque tra un prima e un dopo. E dopo, musicalmente, nulla è più stato come prima.

http://www.vatican.va/news_services/or/or_quo/cultura/2010/082q04f1.html

Seven years that shook music
Giuseppe Fiorentino and Gaetano Vallini

It is true, they took drugs ... were uninhibited rakes and uninhibited, in a fit of bravado called themselves more famous than Jesus ... favored .. urban legends about their lives and also the alleged death of one of them, were certainly not the best examples for the youth of the time ... However, listening to their songs all this seems far away and insignificant. Forty years after the turbulent breakup of the Beatles - made official April 10, 1970, but actually happening the previous year after they recorded Abbey Road - like precious jewels, their beautiful melodies forever changed pop music and continue to excite ...

It's an article by two reporters who write on pop music for the paper. It doesn't even devote a complete sentence to the 1966 media issue. I've pointed out clearly that whenever these guys mention the Beatles, the media reliably crank out headlines that the Vatican has "finally forgiven" the Beatles. I've posted several links indicating the Vatican dropped the Lennon-Jesus controversy forty odd years ago; and several links pointing out that that Lennon-Jesus controversy was an American rightwing issue. Your insistence on misrepresenting the facts here suggests to me little more than anti-Catholic prejudice on your part

[ZeitgeistObserver]

93. And again it has nothing to do with the topic.

Or me for that matter, since I don't write the news.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/vaticancityandholysee/7579019/Vatican-forgives-The-Beatles-for-bigger-than-Jesus-comment.html

http://www.examiner.com/x-2082-Beatles-Examiner~y2010m4d11-Vatican-newspaper-has-high-praise-for-the-Beatles-says-they-changed-music

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/vatican-makes-peace-with-the-beatles/article1531408/

Now when will the church address the current crisis in any meaningful way, and stop fussing over irrelevant things is the question.

[struggle4progress]

94. A link to article discussed in OP "has nothing to do with the topic"?

:eyes:

I can find enough disagreements with the Vatican, based on actual facts, that I don't need need bigoted anti-Catholic misrepresentations

[ZeitgeistObserver]

95. The Vatican is in crisis. The media has reported it,

and is following the situation as it unfolds, since there is world-wide interest in it.

Find a priest and snark at him, because snarking at me on here isn't going to change that.

[Lucian]

4. This coming from people who cover up pedophiles.

[Bluebear]

6. Beatles answer: "Do you want to know a secret?"

"Go to hell."

[RainDog]

7. can this organization BE more irrelevant?

who gives a fuck who they approve of? they approve of pedophiles, shelter them from prosecution and annoint the chief enabler of pedophiles as pope.

the beatles are more popular and more like jesus than the catholic church... still.

[ZeitgeistObserver]

9. Maybe it's a pitch for baby boomer support?

:shrug:

[Sebastian Doyle]

8. I can just picture John Lennon and Joseph Ratzinger standing before God on judgment day.

God sees that Lennon once claimed the Beatles were more popular than Jesus, which was arguably true at the time.

God sees that Ratzinger covered up the rape of children and was then proclaimed "infallible" by the church which protects these child rapists.

Who do you think is getting the express ticket to Hell? :evilgrin:

[KatyMan]

18. and that's not even what Lennon said or meant

He was saying that in England at the time, young people were more interested in things like pop groups, etc. Nothing close to what the whackos claimed.

[Captain Hilts]

34. True. The comment was not a boast at all. nt

[Sebastian Doyle]

45. Yeah, I know. But I'd love to see it anyway.

More specifically, I'd love to see John grab his Rickenbacker at that moment and sing....

The Pope's got a ticket to Hell
The Pope's got a ticket to Helllll
He's got a ticket to Hell
And I don't care.

:evilgrin:

[lame54]

87. Then he could segue into "Happiness is a young bum"

[dflprincess]

29. I just wish Lennon was still alive

I would have loved to hear his reaction to this.

[msongs]

10. lol they ARE bigger than jesus being loved by people of all/no religions + they were real nt

[rucky]

11. Are we square, now?

added the Pope

[bleever]

56. Good one.

Pope: "My final offer".

[fishwax]

12. lol

:rofl:

[monmouth]

13. Wasn't there a Brit recently who stated he would have the pope

arrested when he went to Great Britain??? Was it a UN guy or someone? Maybe covering their tracks ahead of schedule. If the pope was smart he would step down and certainly not go to England for whatever reason he was going.

[RainDog]

15. British citizens were planning to protest the pope's visit

and demand arrest.

Richard Dawkins supported them. Dawkins is a scientist who has taken on religion in the last few years after DECADES of attempts to dumb down science by religious fundies.

I love to watch people squirm as the atheists are finally saying ENOUGH.

this is really funny... the hierarchy is SOOOOOOOOOOO out of touch with people they don't get that very few, even within their own church, really give a fuck what they say about anything since they've proven how worthless they are.

[monmouth]

19. Yes, Dawkins was the person. Many thanks...n/t

[graywarrior]

14. Oouu oouu, a news flash for my essay!

[Grand Taurean]

16. The worlds bigest whore house (the Vatican) has NO BUSINESS

dictating morality to anyone!

[Mojambo]

17. Oh man, are they ever desperate! n/t

[Bucky]

20. This proves it! Sex leads to Rock and Roll!

[ima_sinnic]

22. what planet are these people on? who are they to "forgive" anybody, anyway?

forgiveness is reserved for the wronged.
how did the Beatles ever "wrong" these perverts?
and aren't they, um, the least little bit concerned about certain, er, legal and moral matters pertaining to them? they're thinking about the Beatles, which broke up, oh 20+ years ago, as if that is relevant to something?

oh ratzy, we aren't so easily distracted! it ain't gonna work!

[LongTomH]

23. ".....and put out mysterious messages, that were possibly even Satanic?"

Gimme a fucking break! :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

I remember Sinbad's (The comic not the sailor) comment about people looking for 'backward masking' messages: "If you're sitting around in your darkened basement, listening to records being played backward - You ARE Satan!"
:rofl:

[RagAss]

24. Hide pedophiles...wear a pointy hat and forgive The Beatles....now that's fucking funny !

Do they realize how fucked up they are?

[ZeitgeistObserver]

26. The Vatican has given this deep thought for over 40 years,

apparently. Hey, it took them 300 years for Galileo, so they're improving.

Except none of the Beatles are RC as far as I know.

[dflprincess]

31. Paul & George were both baptized Catholic

I don't know how strict their parents were about it when they were young, obviously Paul & George didn't stay with it.

[ZeitgeistObserver]

38. I don't recall their religion ever being mentioned,

but I just now read that Harrison became a Hindu, and Paul was raised non-denominationally by an RC mother and a protestant agnostic father.

[dflprincess]

43. I did double check before I posted rather than relying on memory

The sources I found today both mentioned the batisms, but gave no indication of how strictly Catholic they were raised and I was aware that George had become a Hindu later in his life.

(my original source for which Beatles were Catholic was my 6th grade Catechism nun who, I think, had a touch of Beatlemania herself - this was back in 1964 and she was one of the younger nuns.)

[ZeitgeistObserver]

44. I had to look because I didn't know.

I don't remember it ever being mentioned. Their tastes in candy, music, reading material, shampoo etc all was, ad nauseum, but nothing on religion that I can recall. :)

[Art_from_Ark]

70. Let It Be--1970-- sung by Paul

"When I find myself in times of trouble
Mother Mary comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom
Let it be"

[Art_from_Ark]

71. Compare that to the Ballad of John and Yoko (1969), sung by John

"Christ, you know it ain't easy
You know how hard it can be
The way things are going
they're going to crucify me"

[Sebastian Doyle]

96. Ah, but the "Mother Mary" referenced here

was Mary McCartney, Paul's own late mother. Not JC's mom.

[Art_from_Ark]

106. Could be, but it came across as reference to "JC's mom"

to just about everyone who heard the song

[Sebastian Doyle]

109. Paul's explanation here

"I was going through a really difficult time around the autumn of 1968. It was late in the Beatles’ career and we had begun making a new album, a follow-up to the “White Album.” As a group we were starting to have problems. I think I was sensing the Beatles were breaking up, so I was staying up late at night, drinking, doing drugs, clubbing, the way a lot of people were at the time. I was really living and playing hard.

The other guys were all living out in the country with their partners, but I was still a bachelor in London with my own house in St. John’s Wood. And that was kind of at the back of my mind also, that maybe it was about time I found someone, because it was before I got together with Linda.

So, I was exhausted! Some nights I’d go to bed and my head would just flop on the pillow; and when I’d wake up I’d have difficulty pulling it off, thinking, “Good job I woke up just then or I might have suffocated.”

Then one night, somewhere between deep sleep and insomnia, I had the most comforting dream about my mother, who died when I was only 14. She had been a nurse, my mum, and very hardworking, because she wanted the best for us. We weren’t a well-off family- we didn’t have a car, we just about had a television – so both of my parents went out to work, and Mum contributed a good half to the family income. At night when she came home, she would cook, so we didn’t have a lot of time with each other. But she was just a very comforting presence in my life. And when she died, one of the difficulties I had, as the years went by, was that I couldn’t recall her face so easily. That’s how it is for everyone, I think. As each day goes by, you just can’t bring their face into your mind, you have to use photographs and reminders like that.

So in this dream twelve years later, my mother appeared, and there was her face, completely clear, particularly her eyes, and she said to me very gently, very reassuringly: “Let it be.”

It was lovely. I woke up with a great feeling. It was really like she had visited me at this very difficult point in my life and gave me this message: Be gentle, don’t fight things, just try and go with the flow and it will all work out.

So, being a musician, I went right over to the piano and started writing a song: “When I find myself in times of trouble, Mother Mary comes to me”… Mary was my mother’s name… “Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.” There will be an answer, let it be.” It didn’t take long. I wrote the main body of it in one go, and then the subsequent verses developed from there: “When all the broken-hearted people living in the world agree, there will be an answer, let it be.”

I thought it was special, so I played it to the guys and ’round a lot of people, and later it also became the title of the album, because it had so much value to me, and because it just seemed definitive, those three little syllables. Plus, when something happens like that, as if by magic, I think it has a resonance that other people notice too.

Not very long after the dream, I got together with Linda, which was the saving of me. And it was as if my mum had sent her, you could say."

http://mattandjojang.wordpress.com/2009/05/03/the-story-behind-paul-mccartneys-song-let-it-be/

[Art_from_Ark]

110. So that shoots down an illusion I've had for 40 years

Our music teacher introduced the song in music class, and mentioned that "Mother Mary" was reference to the divine mother. I guess it never occurred to her, or really anyone I knew, that it was a reference to Paul McCartney's mum.

[Aristus]

27. You don't have to dig too deeply into Church history to find four Popes who make

John, Paul, George and Ringo look like Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

Pope John XII and Pope Alexander VI. There; that's two right there...

[salguine]

28. I don't recall that the Beatles molested thousands of children. Although I must admit

that since we already had a Pope John Paul, I've always thought one should choose the name Pope George Ringo.

Otherwise, the Vatican should shut the fuck up. This decades old child-raping scandal gets worse by the week, and it now goes all the way up to the Pope himself, and they're condescending to "forgive" the fucking Beatles? I think the ghosts of John and George need to pay the Pope a visit.

[struggle4progress]

57. Nope. The Beatles just got thousands of guys singin "I'd rather see you dead, little girl, than to

be with another man. You better keep your head, little girl, or I won't know where I am, you better run for your life if you can, little girl. Hide your head in the sand little girl, catch you with another man, that's the end, little girl ..."

Incredibly vibrant and catchy music. Shit-headed lyrics

[ZeitgeistObserver]

64. The Beatles evolved, the church never has.

However, this isn't a choice between the Vatican and the Beatles, it's about the church fussing over something as unimportant as a band from half a century ago, instead of dealing with a current serious crisis.

[Sebastian Doyle]

98. Truth about that regrettable lyric though

is that John lifted it right off of an Elvis Presley song, "Baby Let's Play House".

From the last verse....

Now listen to me, baby
Try to understand.
I'd rather see you dead, little girl,
Than to be with another man.
Now baby,
Come back, baby gone.
Come back, baby gone.
Come back, baby, I wanna play house with you.

Not that it excuses John or Elvis for singing it. They both should have known better.

[Warren DeMontague]

33. Sure, we abuse children, but they took the LSD!

:eyes:

[Captain Hilts]

35. Well, this girl is not trading forgiveness for the Beatles for forgiveness for Cardinal Rat. nt

[besdayz]

36. high horse

i'll take things that happen when you fall off your pedestal alex......

[Withywindle]

37. A breathtaking work of staggering hubris.

As if anyone gives a shit who or what the Vatican "forgives" in light of what they're covering up and excusing.

At least it didn't take them 400 years like it did with Galileo.

[Flying Dream Blues]

39. Well that's a hugh relief for xian rockers everywhere.

Free to be, you and me. Thank yew, Jaysus.

[Politicub]

40. Could the Vatican get even more stupid?

The attempt at distraction from the child rape cover up only makes the spotlight on the Pope all that much brighter.

[Stevenmarc]

41. Sometimes you have to just love the Vatican in their attempts to remain relevant

Talk about arranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

[SmileyRose]

42. LOL

Sometimes the jokes just write themselves

[FightingBobsghost]

46. Forgiveness

Isn't it time for Henry VIII to get his seperation from Katherine of Aragone?

[AnnieBW]

47. Can they forgive Yoko, too?

n/t

[cliffordu]

48. ...And we forgive the church for playing three card monty with pedophiles.

:sarcasm:

[Lucy Goosey]

49. This pisses me off more than it should.

What does the Vatican want, a fucking medal?

They forgive pedophiles. Their forgiveness is worth nothing. Less than nothing. They have no valid claim to the moral authority to forgive or condemn anyone.

And not to mention: THE BEATLES DID REALLY WELL WITHOUT YOUR FUCKING FORGIVENESS, VATICAN. You are not nearly as important as you seem to think you are.


Well. I'm glad I got that off my chest.

[ZeitgeistObserver]

50. I think it's part of their 'disconnect' from society.

They actually think that what they say matters to the world at large, when it doesn't.

Unfortunately we've all encouraged them in this belief. Every world leader goes to the Vatican at some point to meet the pope.

They all attend a papal funeral. And on christmas eve midnight mass is broadcast worldwide.

I can't think of any other religious figure that gets this kind of attention.

[Iggo]

51. jeezusaychkeeryst

[old mark]

52. Someday people might be able to forgive the church, but I can't see it.

I think - I hope - they are killing themselves with their arrogant lack of concern for their own people. The organization has outlived any usefulness it may have had and is not worth preserving.

mark

[ZeitgeistObserver]

53. I'm guessing you're not catholic.

[old mark]

72. Born raised and educated. I stopped believing that nonsense around age 11,

started to investigate the organization and learned the truth about it - it is interested in money and power, and it is what the mafia wishes it could be.
I have zero respect for those crooks and only sympathy for the believers.

mark

[ZeitgeistObserver]

81. Obviously you weren't indoctinated properly.

;)

[old mark]

100. No, I learned how to think on my own......

makes them nervous....


mark

[guitar man]

54. The Beatles response

Bang! Bang! Maxwell's silver hammer
Came down upon his head.
Clang! Clang! Maxwell's silver hammer
Made sure that he was dead.

:evilgrin:

[Iggo]

77. Nice one.

The Hammer of St. Maxwell.

Pope, are you dead?
Pope, are you dead?
Pope, are you dead?

[Hissyspit]

58. Oh, God.

They just have no clue, do they?

[ZeitgeistObserver]

60. No, still in fantasyland. n/t

[bridgit]

62. That's It!! Take me to the river ~

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anjT71N4PGM

[Arugula Latte]

66. Well, at least it didn't take them centuries, like it did with Galileo.

:eyes:

[thelordofhell]

67. A Fitting Response To The Vatican From The Beatles.........

Here I stand head in hand
Turn my face to the wall
If she's gone I can't go on
Feelin' two-foot small

Everywhere people stare
Each and every day
I can see them laugh at me
And I hear them say

Hey you've got to hide your love away
Hey you've got to hide your love away

How can I even try
I can never win
Hearing them, seeing them
In the state I'm in

How could she say to me
Love will find a way
Gather round all you clowns
Let me hear you say

Hey you've got to hide your love away
Hey you've got to hide your love away

[thelordofhell]

68. A Not-So-Fitting Response To The Vatican From The Beatles.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gd0hmlWk3Ck

:rofl: :spray:

[piratefish08]

74. Can't Buy Me Love. Can't rape children either. Fuck you pope. Fuck you Vatican.

[Vinca]

75. Is that John Lennon I hear laughing?

[saltpoint]

78. The only thing I really want to toss in here is that this thread

affords the opportunity to say that the Beatles gave us some of the most engagingly listenable music in history and it's a debt I just don't think I can ever repay, except with rapt attention and enjoyment.

[struggle4progress]

82. 'More Popular Than Jesus': The Beatles and the Religious Far Right

Mark Sullivan
Popular Music, Vol. 6, No. 3, Beatles Issue (Oct., 1987), pp. 313-326
Cambridge University Press

Probably the most famous photograph of the entire anti-rock movement features record burnings held in August 1966.l A crowd of elementary school-age children and a clean-cut disc jockey stand before a bonfire; one grinning boy presents a copy of Meet the Beatles to the camera prior to tossing it on the flames. This particular bonfire was organised by radio staion WAYX in Waycross, Georgia, but it was only one of many in response to comments made by John Lennon. In an interview printed in the London Evening Standard of 4 March 1966, John Lennon stated, ... We're more popular than Jesus now ... Jesus was alright, but His disciples were thick and ordinary ... It was not until the quote was featured on the cover of the American teen magazine Datebook, however, that the statement received attention in the United States. A massive backlash against the Beatles ensued ... Immediately, dozens of radio stations, particularly those in the southern 'Bible Belt', banned Beatles music ... Many of these same stations sponsored record burnings like the one in the infamous photograph. The South Carolina Grand Dragon of the Ku Klux Klan burned a Beatles record on a cross ... Numerous religious leaders offered opinions on the furore. Reverend Thurman H. Babbs, pastor of the New Heaven Baptist Church in Cleveland, Ohio pronounced, 'I will revoke the membership of any member of my church who agrees with John Lennon's remarks about Jesus or who goes to see the Beatles' ... Reverend Kenneth Maguire, Anglican Bishop of Montreal, reminded, 'In the only popularity poll in Jesus' time, he came out second best to Barabbas ...

<can't link to secured resource: above is available through databases such as JSTOR>

The simple fact is that it was the American rightwingers who screamed and wailed about this

[lame54]

85. How many children did they molest?

[Rex]

86. So...they were possibly Satanic, but are 'precious jewels'?

I think Benny the Rat's true form is starting to show.

[struggle4progress]

101. It's sloppy translation: the Italian says that some observers questionably

accused them of Satanism

[Rex]

111. Thanks, it didn't make sense.

[spanone]

105. mr richard starkey was not impressed

[devilgrrl]

107. I am soooo sick of the "bigger than Jesus" meme.

How many times do people have to be told that John Lennon didn't mean what every reactionary on Earth thought.

Get over it already.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

108. What a pack of gibbering morans....

Words just fail me. From their lame-ass absolution of four guys (two of whom appear to be dead already) who don't give two shits what the Vatican thinks, to their stunningly tone-death protestations that Jews and Homosexuals are responsible for predator priests. I don't know what to say.

Among the many reasons I wish he were still alive today, I would dearly love to hear what John Lennon's reply to this nonsense would have been.