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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 10:40 AM
Original message
Sarah Palin's 'Christian Nation' Remarks Spark Debate
Source: ABC News

Advocates of Church-State Separation Say Palin Is Distorting Founders' Intent

Is America a Christian nation?

Sarah Palin said on Friday that it's "mind-boggling" to suggest otherwise.

But two groups dedicated to the separation of church and state are now speaking out against her, arguing that she is misreading the founders' intent.

"It's incredibly hypocritical that Sarah Palin, who disapproves of government involvement in just about anything, now suddenly wants the government to help people be religious," Barry Lynn, the executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, told ABC News.

"It is wildly inconsistent with her views on limited government to get the government involved in matters of faith."

...

"We hear of a judge's ruling that our National Day of Prayer is unconstitutional," said Palin. "I think we'll be challenging that one."

"God truly has shed his grace on thee -- on this country," Palin told the Women of Joy conference. "He's blessed us, and we better not blow it."



Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/sarah-palin-sparks-church-state-separation-debate/story?id=10419289
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. Sarah Palin's 'irrelevance' is not recognized by the MSM. nt
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newtothegame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. Or DU unfortunately.
As much as we railed on her for being worthless, a "bitch," and a "slut" that brought down the 2008 Republican ticket, we've sure obsessed over her like she's the biggest thing since sliced bread.
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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
27. as long as she is being used to rile up the willfully ignorant, spread theocratic pesudohistory
she is not irrelevant any more than bill o'reilly's years of demonizing Dr. Tiller was irrelevant.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
2. Her bucket of ignorance has no bottom.
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. egg zack lee
" .... as if a wall between church and state." Thomas Jefferson

And yet Palin prattles on about how the founding fathers wanted a Christian nation.
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Delphinus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
30. Weren't some of the
founding fathers deists (or theists)?
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
3. In fairness, boggling her mind is not especially difficult. ...
Anyway, it is another example of "we can't be wrong" thinking. The WANT it to be a Christian nation, so they simply refuse to consider anything that contradicts it and they take personal offense if anyone says they are wrong.
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
4. "christian nation" translates to "no jews or dogs allowed"
nt
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Journeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
5. Oy, this is the longest 15 minutes I've ever endured. . .
and like the unpronounceable Icelandic volcano, it gives no sign of abating as it belches the most grating hot gasses imaginable.
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Brother Buzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Duzy worthy
:thumbsup:
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
8. It doesn't help to have Bush's office of faith based initiatives expanded...
...and filled with evangelicals and catholics - that office should have been closed on day one.
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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
25. +1000
!
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ejpoeta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
9. do these people see countries where you have religious group bossing everyone else around??!!
like where they won't let girls go to school and you can get a good look at what a religious state is! that is not what this country is supposed to be. the people that founded this country had no interest in a 'christian nation' considering they escaped one themselves!! we do not have a national religion. it's supposed to be that the christians are free to worship as they will just as the jewish are free to do the same and so am i and everyone else.... without the GOVERNMENT infringing on that. they are infringing on my rights by trying to legislate their religious beliefs regarding abortion as well as even a national day of prayer. god has no business in government and if i am not mistaken i think i remember something to that effect was IN the bible. maybe i am wrong, but i thought there was something about that in there. but then again, 'religious' folks who call themselves christians only pick the parts of the bible that suit them and ignore the rest.
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Grassy Knoll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
10. .
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
11. If they prayed for the health care bill not to pass.
and it passed, what does that tell them?

I don't get why God can fail them over and over and over but he's gotta be involved in everything.
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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. It's all those demons that have invaded the capitol - just ask Louie Gohmert (R-TX)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/16/texas-republican-goehmert_n_500805.html

Speaking shortly after he riled up a crowd at Tuesday's Tea Party protest, Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Tex.) declared that "demons" - yes, demons - have invaded the capital (and likely the souls of Democrats), forcing lawmakers to mislead the public about the content of the health care bill.

"Well it would take a demon to be this dishonest about a bill," the Texas Republican told the Huffington Post. "If they would just read the bill, they would see what they are saying is dishonest."

snip

And then, out of nowhere, Gohmert began spreading the word that underworld spirits were lurking around the Capitol building behind him.

"There's a whole lot of demon going on," he said. "There are a lot of demons around here apparently."


Republican Congressmen Joining May Day Prayer Rally to Establish a "Virtual Theocracy"
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/republican-congressmen-joining-may-day-prayer-rally-establish-vitrual-theocracy

When Porter says that it is her goal to "take dominion" over every aspect of American culture, she is entirely serious, as this is a key part of a movement to capture the "7 Mountains" and is going to be a central feature of her upcoming May Day prayer rally:

7:00 a.m. - 2:00 p.m. - Every hour will generally feature times of prayer and proclamation, including words from the Constitutions of all 50 States, as well as a number of our Presidents and American patriots. Prayer times will include both corporate and personal silent prayer. Prayers of repentance will be offered about each of the "Seven Mountains of Culture," which are: (1) Business; (2) Government; (3) Media; (4) Arts and Entertainment; (5) Education; (6) Family; and (7) Religion. A number of leaders have been asked to offer prayers of repentance in each of these areas and subcategories, such as the military and our court system.

This 7 Mountains theology was started by Bill Bright, Loren Cunningham, and Francis Schaeffer back in 1975 and aims at quite literally having Christains defeat "the enemines of the Gospel" in order to gain complete control over every aspect of American life: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQtB-AF41p8


snip

Among those listed as participating in Porter's May Day prayer rally are dozens of Religious Right leaders including James Dobson, Rick Scarborough, Mat Staver, Wendy Wright, Harry Jackson, and David Barton, as well as several Republican members of Congress:

Congressman
Randy Forbes (Virginia)

Congressman
Trent Franks (Arizona)

Congressman
Louie Gohmert (Texas)

Congressman
Steve King (Iowa)

Congressman
Cliff Stearns (Florida)
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
12. "she is misreading the founders' intent."
first you have to believe that failin quitter actually reads.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
13. Doesn't matter how many times she spouts utter nonsense from her ignorant Dorito-chute,
the MSM will continue to pretend she has more than two functioning brain cells.
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Junkie Brewster Donating Member (301 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
14. Does she even listen to the bullshit that comes out of her mouth?
??
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Welcome to DU, Junkie Brewster!
Nice screen name! :)

:hi: :toast:
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Junkie Brewster Donating Member (301 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
35. Thank you!
Long time lurker, first time poster. Well, not first, but close to first. Thank you!
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Ezlivin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
16. Treaty of Tripoli - Signed by John Adams, ratified by unanimous vote in Senate
As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. Source


If John Adams is not a founding father, no one is. And if he had no problem signing the Treaty of Tripoli, if the Senate had no problem ratifying it and if the press said absolutely nothing, you can bet that this country was not founded on the Xian religion.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
17. I keep telling Palinistas this, she is a THEOCRAT
As in, wants her church to run the country

Most people don't get that about her
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krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. I agree...it's the first thing I noticed about her. How can one not?
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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. That's why I am one of the annoying people who keep posting about her & her religions political aims
while she does not have the following to legitimately win a national election she still does damage verbaly throwing gasoline on the roaring fire of teabagger rage and 'we are oppressed christians because we can't make everyone else obey our religion' paranoia.

when not enough people pay attention they end up with someone palin-ish as governor & attn general like in Va -

Gay Demon Exorcist Cindy Jacobs To Share Stage With Virginia GOP Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8144641
http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/04/13/gay-demon-exorcist-cindy-jacobs-to-share-stage-with-virginia-gop-attorney-general-ken-cuccinelli

As noted last night on the Rachel Maddow Show, Virginia GOP Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli and evangelist Cindy Jacobs will be appearing (and, it would seem, sharing a stage together) at the Freedom Federation anti-health care reform Awakening 2010 conference, scheduled to be held at Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia this April 15th and 16th. Noting Cuccinellis plan to attend the conference Maddow observed, A lot of conservative politicians admit they want to repeal health reform, but it takes a brave new Virginia style conservative politician to say they want to repeal health reform while appearing at an event with a faith healer repeal and replace indeed.

People For The American Ways Kyle Mantyla has posted footage of Cindy Jacobs attempts at faith healing of HIV and cancer during a March 2010 conference in Dallas but Jacobs is not just a faith healer. As shown in video footage from the 18th International Transformation Network Institute on Nation Transformation conference, held October 2008 in Mar del Plata, Argentina, Cindy Jacobs claims the power to cast out gay demons. During an October 7, 2008 evening ceremony at the conference Jacobs conducted a mass exorcism, casting out not only spirits of homosexuality but also spirits of pornography, addiction, lust, bisexuality, and perversion. (below: exorcism of "homosexual spirits" begins 40 seconds into video)

Watch: http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/04/13/gay-demo... /


Cindy Jacobs purported exorcism and faith healing powers are part of, writes authority on Christian Zionism Rachel Tabachnick, an entire new health care paradigm emerging on the evangelical right in which the first recourse for almost any malady, imagined or real, is faith healing and exorcism.

Jacobs is also fond, it would seem according to the following account from a book by her close colleague C. Peter Wagner, of burning statues of Catholic saints, rosary beads, Books of Mormon, totem poles, and a wide range of other assorted religious and mystical items.

In Wagners book Hard-Core Idolatry Facing the Facts (1999, published by the Wagner Institute of Practical Ministry), on pages 38 and 39 Peter Wagner describes how the Holy Spirit came to Cindy Jacobs and told her that told her that in Resistencia they must burn the idols, like the magicians did in Ephesus. Ed Silvoso, Cindy Jacobs and the Resistencia pastors agreed. .........(more)
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breadandwine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. Palin must be stopped. See this ---
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. Well, so are a lot of her fans
You're deluding yourself if you think they wouldn't buy right into that. Most authoritarians would vastly prefer to be able to use the bible as the ultimate legal sourcebook so as not to be bound by inconvenient provisions in the constitution.
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krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
18. It's laughable that they suggest that, since many of the founders were Deist.
When the reference a Creator in these documents, they are not talking about Christianity. They should read some Thomas Paine.
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #18
33. Her followers believe her, though.
These motherfuckers are dangerous.
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Qutzupalotl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
21. "Debate"?
I thought to have a debate, both sides had to use facts. Otherwise the arguments end quickly.
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chat_noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
23. Any right wing sites defending Palin's theocratic intent?
FReeper Palinbots are strangely silent on the issue.







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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
28. Article: Katherine Harris Was in Sarah Palin's Spiritual Warfare Network
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bruce-wilson/katherine-harris-was-in-s_b_140164.html
or printer version http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bruce-wilson/katherine-harris-was-in-s_b_140164.html?view=print

Katherine Harris became notorious for her role in the U.S. 2000 presidential election when Harris, then Florida's Secretary of State, ordered the Florida election vote recount shut down amidst numerous charges of election fraud and irregularity and with Al Gore trailing George W. Bush by only several hundred votes in the contest for Florida's electoral votes which ultimately went to George W. Bush and so determined the outcome of the 2000 presidential election.


A recording of an October 3, 2006 conference call http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E35HqtI1YvY {link to YouTube video with 3:26 segment from call} between Katherine Harris, then Florida U.S. Congressional Representative, and Florida evangelist Ken Malone {transcript of call http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/11/2/111721/078 }, reported on in a November 4th, 2006 Tampa Tribune story because of remarks Harris made during the call which some took as anti-Jewish, indicates that Katherine Harris was then active in the same national Spiritual Warfare network which Sarah Palin has been associated with and may still be a member of.

Mounting evidence suggests John McCain's running mate Sarah Palin is deeply involved with a global religious movement bent on imposing theocracies around the world and whose top leader, C. Peter Wagner, has decreed to his followers it is God's will that a forcible, massive transfer of wealth, from the 'godless' to members of his movement, take place - http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/11/1/14522/8804 .


A recently released 36 page report (online http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/10/27/115813/98 / PDF http://www.talk2action.org.nyud.net/pages/docs/Transformation.pdf / highlights http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/10/31/115724/94 ) from an independent research team specializing Wagner's movement includes details on what appear to be virulently anti-Catholic http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/10/20/195730/89 and anti-Jewish http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/10/27/133445/54#martha_lucia_calls_knesset_mind_of_satan statements from, and activities carried out by, top leaders of C. Peter Wagner's New Apostolic Reformation.


Sarah Palin joined the Wasilla prayer group of C. Peter Wagner apostle Mary Glazier in 1989, Glazier told Wagner and his top New Apostolic Reformation leaders on July 13, 2008 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5kLreAmgGE

{below: Tube video with audio of Glazier's statement. Audio track of Glazier's statement begins 45 seconds into video}

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5kLreAmgGE


Much more at the link so please click through to read and watch:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bruce-wilson/katherine-harris-was-in-s_b_140164.html
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Contrary1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
31. Quitter is all for the Constitution, except when she's not. n/t
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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. The Constitution is UnConstitutional!
:crazy:
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smoochpooch Donating Member (688 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
32. Again, if our party can't capitalize on this sort of thing, we don't deserve to lead.
Every Jew, Muslim, Atheist, Hindu, Buddhist, and Wiccan should hear that the Republican party believes they can go fuck themselves. Run ads, go to mosques and synagogues, whatever it takes to get the point across that unless you are Christian, Republicans don't give two shits about you and demand that A. you convert to Christianity or B. all non-Christians be bombed into oblivion. Republicans shouldn't get a single non-Christian vote ever.
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