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AtlanticWire: Obama Rattled by Gay-Rights Hecklers

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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 03:43 PM
Original message
AtlanticWire: Obama Rattled by Gay-Rights Hecklers
Since President Obama announced in the State of the Union that he would begin steps to repeal "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," he has made little tangible process. Despite support from Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Mike Mullen, White House efforts have stalled in the face of united Republican opposition.

The lack of progress towards repeal has infuriated many gay-rights activists, and they voiced their frustration during Obama's speech at a fundraiser for California senator Barbera Boxer. The repeated outbursts seemed to rattle the President, who fired back at the LGBT protesters.

When ... you've got an ally like me who standing for the same thing, then you don't know exactly why you've got to holler, because I already hear you, alright? I mean, it would have made more sense to holler that at the people who oppose it. ... I'm sorry, do you want to come up here?


While Obama's retort drew the expected catcalls from the right, liberal bloggers were equally negative on the president for his inaction on DADT.

Playing Dumb on DADT: "It's frustrating, Mr. President," snaps the Huffington Post's Lane Hudson. who challenges Obama to wield his presidential power to enact a repeal. "YOU HOLD THE POWER," he thunders. "You can insert language in the Defense Authorization bill that would repeal Don't Ask Don't Tell. <...> Our impatience is growing, we will hold you accountable, we will pressure you, and we will not be told to wait."

Can't Hide From This: Firedoglake's David Dayen gets to the heart of gay activists' frustration with Obama. "For months since the President announced at the State of the Union that he would get DADT repealed this year, the White House strategy has been non-existent. Congressmen like Barney Frank have asked for answers and received none. The President can run but he cannot hide on this issue."

Why We're 'Hollering': At the Atlantic, Andrew Sullivan informs Obama why LGBT supporters feel the need to heckle him. "Because, Mr President, it is not enough to be "supportive" of ending 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell,'" he declares. "When you have the presidency and your party controls both Houses of Congress, it's a matter of having the political will to end it."

Enjoying the Carnage Conservative blogger Don Surber is perfectly happy to sit back and watch the left's infighting. "This is a popcorn moment for conservatives as we watch these disingenuous people claw at one another over a tertiary issue for them," he chortles. For his part, Serber thinks military personnel don't care that much about their comrades' sexual orientation. "Frankly, I think most people in the military could not care less if the guy next to them is gay. They just want to be sure that he will pull his weight."

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/features/view/feature/Obama-Rattled-by-Gay-Rights-Hecklers-1092/

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MindandSoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. It is time for the President to act on this! Gay rights have waited long enough!
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. and they're right!
The vid I saw of the situation didn't include those comments from the president, just saying he agreed. But I could tell he was visibly bothered by it. Well....
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. Dude.. I can't even begin to figure out how we are going to
solve problems when Democrats are so quick to defend the indefensible.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8183414
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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. Good for them
but if you hear the audio, the President hardly sounded rattled.
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sybylla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
76. I thought the same thing.
Not rattled in the least. Love the spin.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
5. My Dem ex-military father put it this way, "Is he Commander in Chief or not?" nt
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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. *Exactly*
When you actually have power, exercise it. Otherwise it slips away.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
29. Your point about using power is a good one. nt
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
23. Only of the military as approved by the Legislature.

And the Legislature has said DADT is the rule for gay people serving in the military.


The problem with DU is that we all came of age during the era of the "imperial presidency". And too many of us seem to think this is normal and desirable.

Look at your "commander in chief" comment. That sounds like you're saying he is CnC of the United States. And I think there are people out there who actually believe that.


Obama spoke of this during his campaign. He recognized that the imperial presidency was inconsistent with the Constitution and with a democratic form of government. He flat out promised to do his part in restoring power to the Legislative branch of government. His (correct) views on the Constitution appear to be at work in everything he has done, and it grates on DUers accustomed to the dictatorial manner in which every president beginning with Nixon have behaved.

The imperial presidency is a product of the Cold War and the threat of nuclear war. Had the Soviet Union known the President could not order a retaliatory attack without the US Congress first voting on the issue ... First Strike becomes a vastly more reasonable option for the Soviet Union.

And then came Nixon. He demanded imperial powers in more and more areas. Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II continued the power grab. Clinton may have not expanded his powers, but he was happy to use the powers he inherited.

But those powers are illegitmate. They are unconstitutional. And Obama is right in asserting that they are incompatible with a democratic form of government.

I have been waiting decades for the Legislature to assert their authority. They didn't. But we do have a president who appears to be restoring the republic after a succession of imperial presidencies. If Congress gets used to wielding their power, maybe they won't be so quick to let those powers be taken from them if a future power-hungry president comes along.

We are talking about saving democracy.


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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Nobody suggested Obama is "CnC of the United States" - DADT is a military issue...
...and the president is Commander in Chief of the military. It may be easier politically to leave it to Congress, but it's unnecessary.
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #26
56. You seriously believe the President of the United States has the authority to violate laws?

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #56
65. Of course he does. It's a very old practice.
lol
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
33. Bingo. Anyone who says you can't lay this at Obama's feet is full of it..
All Obama has to do is pick up the phone call Sec-Def and say "I order you to allow gays to openly serve".

Adding my own little twist I also think that any politician who stands against this policy should have to give up their office, don a uniform and go and take the place of a gay soldier who isn't allowed to openly serve in Iraq or Afghanistan.
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liquid diamond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #33
46. You mean an executive order?
If so, that could be repealed by a future president. It would be best to let congress overturn DADT, so that it is no longer an issue in the future. Obama isn't God. Interrupting the president won't motivate him further! These hecklers need to be patient and grow the fuck up. Shame on those that encourage this immature behavior.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. Deleted message
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Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #46
53. I'm curious. When did the Collective assimilate you?
:shrug:
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robinblue Donating Member (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
6. Good, We need more public protests like this one.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
7. i watched it, he wasn't 'rattled'.. that's an opinion that i heartily disagree with
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. Anything on the issue, or you just take exception with the "rattled"?
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
41. he sure sounded annoyed, and
yes rattled enough to walk away from the mike for a bit to talk to the anti marijuana Senator Boxer
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robinblue Donating Member (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
8. K and R.
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golddigger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
9. K&R
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
11. He should be.....His waffling on DADT needs to end.
nt
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NoNothing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
12. The frustrating thing is
There is no apparent REASON for the delay. What is the holdup?
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
43. because next year they can whine
"We don't have the votes"
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
13. Dear President Obama
You're going to get a lot of static from the right wing nutsos, no matter what you do. Why not at least do the right thing, and earn their condemnation, instead of trying to appease the unappeasable? We'll have your back, I promise.
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frazzled Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
14. For months since the State of the Union?
Yes, that would be 3 whole months. There are 8 months left in the year. Only a Firedoglake blogger could manage to throw such a disingenuous dagger as that one. Must be taking lessons from their new friends on the right.

So far, the first four months of the year have been focused on passing health care reform--which, by the way, took 60 years to accomplish overall and 15 months of nonstop mishegas just lately-- and now financial regulation reform. Oh, and getting Russia to sign the biggest nuclear reduction treaty in decades and gathering 47 world leaders to discuss nuclear issues. There are pressing foreign policy issues with Israel, Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq, China and elsewhere. And a recession to climb out of and joblessness at record numbers. Miners have died, volcanoes have erupted, and Wall Street has descended on Washington like a pack of rats. And yet there still has been movement from the defense department on DADT, getting the message out in advance of a push to rescind the policy and even adapting enforcement until the law is changed by Congress.

This is trumped up theatrics and it's making things worse for DADT, not better.

Look, there is no one more supportive of equality (including marriage equality) than I am, and have been for several decades. But these tactics are starting to get a lot of supporters ticked off. And it really takes a lot to get me ticked off about an issue of civil rights like this. I sat there politely during the nineties while my gay friends called me the "B" word to my face--"breeder." It really really hurt, but I took it on the chin. And then they all started wanting to have or adopt babies. Go figure. Now you are yelling at a president who supports you to end DADT immediately, as opposed to legislatively (the better solution, so that the next president doesn't overturn it). You won't color me surprised if as soon as that happens, the same "protesters" will be refusing to enter the miltary to oppose the defense budget or Afghanistan policy. I'm confused and frustrated.

I believe the policy will be overturned this year. Let's all act like grownups. Top-level meetings are going on at the WH and Defense about this. Work proactively. But stop biting the hand that feeds you.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Caliman73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. The hand that feeds you?
It is the hand that the people voted in to do things like repealing DADT. He ran on the repeal so while FDL may be using a bit of hyperbole, it has not been only 3 months that the issue has been raised. Obama has been in office over a year and while there is movement from the DoD, the White House has backed them off a few times. People are getting upset and have every right to redress their grievances.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. "But stop biting the hand that feeds you." - LOLOLOLOL
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Especially when they want equality more than you do, Bluebear.
I mean, seriously, get a grip... /sarcasm :hi:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #22
34. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Deleted message
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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. That was one messed up post
Edited on Tue Apr-20-10 09:33 PM by Tailormyst
And I am frankly shocked that the poster got away with saying it.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #20
59. Deleted message
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divvy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #20
67. You must have enough support already.
Evidently, you are not looking for any more .....

So why argue. Go change the laws.
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muffin1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #67
79. WOW, divvy,
You are so smart. Bluebear should just 'go out and change the laws'. Brilliant. Where have you been hiding?

How did it go when you had to go out and change the laws so you could serve in the military? And when you had to go fight to change the laws so you could get married?

Please advise...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-22-10 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #79
81. Deleted message
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. So it takes Obama fifteen months to get around to signing an executive order?
While it takes an act of Congress to end DADT, Obama could simply sign an executive order in the meantime that would ban discharges due to sexual orientations. Why should it take well over a year to get this done? Hell, he's certainly been quick about signing other executive orders. Since Obama has been sworn in, there have been over five hundred military members who were discharged under DADT. This could have been easily prevented by Obama, but instead he couldn't be bothered.

One stroke of the pen, yet he refuses to do so.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
44. He's biting my hand!!!
hurt by those mean gays , how dare they
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
49. If you sounded that entitled and condescending when you talked to your gay friends,
I'm surprised they didn't call you the other b word. I would have, and I'm straight.

I'm sure you mean well, but you should probably read over your post and think about how it sounds.
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muffin1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #14
58. What?
Edited on Wed Apr-21-10 09:08 AM by muffin1
"There is no one more supportive of equality..." Now that's a scary thought.

"Let's all act like grown-ups". So, let's all be more patient? Fuck that. Gay folks have been patient for centuries. Now we have a brilliant, BLACK Democratic President (who should be more than aware of how discrimination affects people), and huge majorities in both houses. Add to that, there is overwhelming support for repealing DADT in the general population - not to mention the generals. We are now a year and a half into the Obama administration. Tell me, just WTF is he waiting for?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
63. Excuse me? The hand that feeds you?
You do realize this is or used to be a democracy of sorts, don't you?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
66. Deleted message
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
74. One more supportive of equality...
...would realize that a president who has staked his reputation on opposition to full equality, and whose party is facing a tough election cycle, does not have the repeal of discrimination near the top of his list--whatever he talks about ending "immediately."
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
17. it would have made more sense to holler that at the people who oppose it..
or you might try screaming at a wall. when are these ballbags going to get it?! you can't REASON with these idiots on the right. i thought this guy was supposed be some fucking genius.
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Caliman73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Seriously. Don't go the the guy who can change the policy with a stroke of his pen.
Talk to the guys who would oppose it to their dying breath. That makes sense. :sarcasm:
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. right?!
:banghead:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
24. Deleted message
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. The President Serves the American People. DADT's repeals time has come.
It's time for President Obama to stop the seemingly endless debate and REPEAL IT NOW!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #25
47. Deleted sub-thread
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. "Grow the fuck up people." - Vulgar nonsense.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
30. Was he really rattled?
Just curious.
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #30
40. FDL has the video here:
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Nightjock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
31. Just do it now, Mr. President
If you are waiting for some correct "strategic" time to change the law, there is none with the other party! They are disgusting POS human beings.
They will holler like little children no matter when you do it. Just do it now please.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
32. "Then why aren't you doing anything about it?!"
I'm sure someone must have yelled that at him.

Acting as if he's not in charge of the issue is disappointing.

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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
35. Maybe he needs to come to CA more often.
Sounds like it was good for him. After all, he keeps saying he's the President of all Americans.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
37. good! he should be rattled. knr
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
39. He should be rattled.
You're the president, Obama, and that powder can't get any more dry.
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
42. He didn't look rattled to me.
I thought he took it as he takes everything, cool and smiling. I thought he played it as he should have. Not that I don't agree with the sentiment expressed by the crowd. DODT is ridiculous and should have been repealed last year.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. he didn't do much smiling
he was clearly annoyed enough to walk away from the mike to compose himself
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #45
60. The clip I saw showed him grinning.
As he was saying "You wanna come on up here?"
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. more like grimacing
did you see him walk away from the mike
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
48. interesting how Obama castigates these protesters, yet kisses up to rethugs
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. It's increasingly obvious that he's personally uncomfortable with gay people.
There's really no other explanation that works for all of his behavior on this issue, because in many cases he's going against public opinion and the will of his base to flip LGBT people the bird.
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #51
57. bingo
I've thought that for months.

And if you read his books, they have no close gay friends.

Who can live an urban lifestyle, interacting with other parents of school aged children, and have no gay couples as friends?
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
52. President Obama it is well past time...
We all deserve equal rights... I have written you weekly asking... demanding... begging you to begin moving us in the correct direction. DADT is a start and a start only, there is sooooo much more to be done. I am not in the military, I am straight and I am ashamed.

I want for all Americans to be treated equal... I want all Americans to be able to enjoy their civil rights.

And Fucking-A right, that includes all of those who are not straight.

Sexual orientation is not a sin or a reason to deny civil rights... You want to see sin, come out and party with this straight white American male on party nights. I'll show you sin }(
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muffin1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #52
55. Exactly.
"Sexual orientation is not a sin..." I'm so sick of the bible being used to deny rights to the citizens of this country.
DADT AND DOMA need to be overturned NOW. It seems Obama is the (chess) master around here with HCR and the stimulus, etc, but when it comes to equal rights? Oh no, he simply doesn't have the POWER to do that.

Do it, Mr. President. It is the right thing to do.
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pecwae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
54. Apparently not rattled enough
or DADT would be history, ancient and shameful history.
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divvy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
62. Heckling and hurling insults is the best way to win support !
Brilliant !
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. Damn.
:rofl:

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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #62
68. Yes- the obvius way to equality is to act like warm, friendly gentle gays
Edited on Wed Apr-21-10 03:29 PM by Tailormyst
Like on the food channel. You know, the "good" kind of gays. Because if they LIKE us and think we are cute and funny then we will have equality in no time at all. We wouldn't want to scare anyone by being pushy activists gays, you know, the "bad" type of gays.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #68
71. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #62
69. Deleted message
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pecwae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #62
75. What would you suggest?
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WorseBeforeBetter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-22-10 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #62
82. The unnecessary space before sentence-ending punctuation has already been done. (n/t)
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VMI Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
72. When did this whole paternalistic "hand that feeds you" bullshit start?
It seems to be a relatively new spin on the "Obama loves gays" shit.
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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #72
78. It's been said more then once today
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-22-10 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #72
83. It's an old argument, and not entirely bullshit.
As long as human rights are seen as subject to voting, we're dependent on the kindness and courage of politicians with little skin in the game.

Those less inclined toward the perpetuation of discrimination are seen as allies, or the closest to allies we'll have, and are the one who eventually get around to loosing the chains somewhat. This they like to think of as doing us favors, and hence the "feeding" meme.

It's mostly bullshit.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
73. Meanwhile, in the real world...
...our LGBT brothers and sisters have been "rattled," ridiculed, beaten and killed for millennia.

I hope the president didn't have trouble sleeping that night in a bed paid for in part by those naughty people who "rattled" him so.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #73
80. Thank you Orsino
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NorthCarolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
77. It's a catch 22 for Obama, sort of. If DADT is repealed, and gays are allowed
to legally fight and die for their country, it would quickly become very hard to justify denying them access to full civil rights, including the right to marry the one they love.
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