Why are we more outraged by a law passed by one state that singles out non-citizens than we are

[cherokeeprogressive]

about a law that not only singles out gays like my teenage daughter, but subjects those who want to serve their country to Court Martial, Captain's Quarters, or any of the other NJP's that not only force them out of military service, but subject them to record-keeping that affects them for the rest of their lives and then denies them the right to marry???

[ashling]

1. I didn't know we were

I know I'm equally disturbed.

[EFerrari]

2. That law doesn't single out non-citizens, it singles out Latinos.

But having said that, are we more outraged about that than about anti-gay bigotry?

I'm just mad all the time nowadays. lol

[xultar]

4. +1

[cherokeeprogressive]

6. I'm reading a LOT more posts that profess outrage about bigotry concerning "the brown"

than I am about "the gay".

Maybe it's just me. Maybe I have skin in the game and expect my daughter's life to be considered at least as much as someone who willingly and knowingly broke the law by entering the country illegally.

Suddenly, there are people speaking out about the rights afforded to people entering this country illegally than there are people speaking out about the rights afforded to my gay daughter, who was BORN in this country.

[EFerrari]

9. I think you may be missing the whole part where this law

only targets people who look Hispanic, the vast majority of whom were born in this country.

[cherokeeprogressive]

10. People who "look".

Get it?

[EFerrari]

12. Yes, I do. But I'm no sure you do

because you keep going on about non-citizens. 30+% of Arizona voters (i.e., citizens) are Latinos and will shortly be subject to illegal search because of how they look. And throw in the high Native American pop there as well as people of Mediterranean and Middle Eastern descent who can also be mistaken for "illegals". Yes, lots of US citizens will be directly impacted by this POS.

And mad as I am about it, I still posted in the GLBT forum today because I can chew gum and walk if I'm very careful.

[cherokeeprogressive]

18. Um, considering your comment about the "high Native American pop", is my nick lost on you?

Want my Tribal Roll Numbers? Google Toolie Catron and Hester Flute, both listed on the Dawes Rolls.

I get it: Civil Rights are reserved for those of "color" before they're allowed those of "sexual orientation".

"Latinos... will shortly be subject to illegal search because of how they look". My daughter has short hair, wears butch clothes, and has been assaulted at school three times in the last two years. Do me a favor and don't choke on your gum as you walk away from her plight.

My ancestors weren't allowed search, they were hunted for sport. Nice try.

I can chew gum, jump rope, and play chess at the same time, without being careful at all.

[EFerrari]

20. You don't seem to get very much.

Including the fact that the majority of Latinos come from indigenous peoples and also have a two spirited contingent.

I'll chalk it up to late night numbskullery.

[still_one]

3. This law does not single out "non-citizens" as you put it, it singles out anyone who looks like a

particular demographic group, with the assumption that you are here illegally without cause except the color of someones skin.

As for you other point your assumption is also wrong, most progressives are outraged by both

[cherokeeprogressive]

8. My 18 soon to be 19 year old daughter falls into the gay stereotype.

I see President Obama supporters (like me, I voted for him) defending that treatment. I see that every day here.

[still_one]

11. I said most progressive, and I doubt you see it "here" on DU everyday, that would surprise me

In addition, Obama is working to eliminate that discrimination. It is not happening quickly, nothing usually does in our Democracy, but it will be within his first term

[Bluenorthwest]

37. I see it each and every day on DU

I have seen outright defenses of hate preachers here. It is common as dirt. Deal with it. The truth, which you do not like, is that Obama favors discrimination, he is not working to eliminate it, as he says God demands it, he says straight couples are 'sanctified by God' and we are not. Tim Kaine also opposes civil unions, full tilt opposition. They are the leaders of the Party, and neither of them is 'working to eliminate discrimination' they promote it, and you need to get real.

[Bluenorthwest]

38. double post

[EFerrari]

5. Btw, Jon Carroll's daughter just got married

despite the fact that it's illegal.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/04/23/DD6L1D27K4.DTL

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

7. Ah, the old "there is no such thing as multitasking" canard.

Yawn.

[Toasterlad]

13. Because the GOP Are the Ones Dicking Over the Latinos, and Obama Is the One Dicking Over the Gays.

And whatever Obama does (or doesn't do) is A-OK with most around here.

[Jamastiene]

14. +7

You got that right.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

16. That's part of it too.

[cali]

32. the GOP don't "dick over gays"? who knew?

I find Obama's foot dragging reprehensible, but the GOP are far, far, far, far worse on GLBT issues.

[Toasterlad]

42. The GOP Is Not In Power Right Now.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

15. It is not singling out "non-citizens", it is singling out people that look like Mexicans.

Citizen and non-citizen alike.

If you are wondering why we're talking about it, I would say the biggest reason is that it was a law just signed Friday and new events tend to get more attention than ongoing events even though the consequences are both unjust.

[ChicagoSuz219]

17. It's not a competition.

Both laws are equally bad & both need to be overturned.

The reason the law targeting 'illegals' is getting so much play is because it was just passed... and hasn't gone into effect yet. There still may be time to overturn it...

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pinboy3niner]

21. False equivalency

Gays are denied civil rights; Hispanics will now be TARGETED and criminalized by police authorities.

AZ is the FIRST state to so outrageously codify racism into state law in our times, and it must be struck down NOW.

Have we forgotten about equal rights for gays? Absolutely not. As others have posted, we CAN chew gum and walk . . .

I understand your passion, but now is not the time for divisiveness. What's that quote--"We shall all hang together, or surely, we shall all hang separately"? We may not be as good at it as the Right, but what we really need now is unity.

[Bluenorthwest]

39. The irony of what you think the reality is.....

Learn about the police and the gay community. The very genesis of our movement lies in police targeting and specific harassment. In most States, it is still legal to fire us, deny housing, just on the basis of an assumption based on looks, and it happens all them time.
Targeted? We are not targeted? Politicians stand up and make speeches against our community by name, all the time, Obama himself used a surrogate that called us child killers. Obama.
So some perspective and reality might help here. I see no evidence that the straight community has ever 'walked and chewed gum' about gay issues, in fact, the most common argument from straights has to do with timing. It is always not the right time. Because of midterms. Or the Presidential. So clearly they can not run and chew gum at the same time. They always say they can't.
Show us this unity, this solidarity. I think it is your comfortable delusion, same as your delusional ideas of how gay people are discriminated against, but not targeted, oh no. You see to say that we come looking for our discrimination. We are not targeted, it just happens, I guess, because of God and nature? The laws that discriminate against us don't target us? How do you make that work, and why do you need to?
When you all manage to walk and chew gum, I'll cheer for you. But first you need to do so.

[pinboy3niner]

43. Excellent response

I agree with everything you've said. Timing is an excuse, the pols are cowardly, and gays are targeted every day. You're absolutely right.

What is new and differnt here is that targeting has now been codified into law. It may be Hispanics now, but who's next? That's why we jump up and down about this. It's actually a broader civil rights issue than Hispanic rights or gay rights.

Still, I hope you'll keep after us--and keep reminding us, so articulately, as we try to walk and chew gum, of what is left undone.

[Chulanowa]

22. Why do you think that's the case?

It's possible to be outraged about two things at the same time.

Why are you pissed that other issues and problems get attention, too?

[BlueIris]

23. I am not "more" outraged by the Arizona situation than by the shameful DADT policies

or other homophobic laws. Just FYI.

[TheKentuckian]

24. Its not in small part an urge to nip it in the bud.

Its a clear strike that can be seen versus something that has always been with us. I'm not saying the older problem isn't fucking pressing but killing this in the crib has to be a good thing.

The non-citizen angle is also missing the issue, at least in part. A citizen can certainly be singled out and hell, they might also be gay.

[Orsino]

25. We aren't. n/t

[saltpoint]

27. When laws are drafted, endorsed, and passed by conservative legislatures,

meaning in this era Republican legislatures, and the laws in question target human beings on the basis of race or gender, for example, then where those laws are enacted is far less the point than the climate which produced them in the first place. Discrimination and bigotry are not state-specific.

I don't hear many folks on this site arguing in favor of discrimination. If I ever do I'll leave.

The Arizona bill in particular, 1070, is an assault on the dignity of human beings. The heat it's getting on this site is a rationale response to an ugly, irrational bill.

[Bluenorthwest]

40. A couple of things

While the spirit of bigotry is not state specific, the laws that allow open and free discrimination against gay people, or forbid such discrimination are in fact State specific, and in most of America, gay people can be fired, evicted, refused housing or employment on the basis of their being gay. State by State. That is just the fact.
During the Prop 8 aftermath, here on DU, we had people lecturing us, telling us we should not criticize churches, we should not protest, we should not say a word about Obama. During the Warren slanders, same thing. During Donnie McClurkin, same thing. McClurkin says 'gay people are trying to kill our children'. Obama employed him, praised him, and many on DU defended the whole thing.
So while I agree that this bill is an assault on humanity, so was Prop 8, and here, that discussion was far from supportive of our goals. The discussion was instead critical of our methods. And defensive about the fact that millions of Democrats voted for that assault upon human dignity.

[saltpoint]

45. OF course the conditions under which various states impose

restrictions on human rights, related to gender and race, for example, are State-specific, but the discrimination and bigotry which drives them is not.

I support the effort to overturn Prop 8, and in enough of a financial way as to be still affordable yet reflective of my concern about the bigotry of the people who did support it, and their bigotry was ballot-specific in California but readily recognizable just about anywhere.

[zbdent]

28. um ... you must have been sleeping during Prop H8 ...

and this is the current "shiny object" ...

And I'm surprised that the current shiny object is getting any attention in the "liberal media" ...

[Warren Stupidity]

29. I have a lot of outrage. nt.

[HillbillyBob]

30. True I live as and example

I was outed from the service..too long to list all the bs and police harasment tat followed, job discrimination, abuse of my person...

[cali]

31. I'm disgusted by both, but

I think the AZ law is a lot scarier.

[eShirl]

33. We're not: one we've been outraged about all along, the other is a newly passed law

You're afraid it is drawing attention away from DADT

[amyrose2712]

34. We are outraged at both and many other things.

Please do not lump us all together. We need to get outraged about more things. I think it is getting so much attention because it just happened and needs to be stopped RIGHT AWAY before it spreads to other places. I feel both practices are unjust.

[ixion]

35. Or a law that does what the AZ law does on a Federal level

Been stopped for no reason whatsoever by DHS or TSA lately?

Why the hell aren't we pissed off about that? :shrug:

[stray cat]

36. Can I see your papers before you post - if not you go to jail

[slackmaster]

41. DUers respond to issues like young kids play soccer - Like a bunch of monkeys fucking the ball.

Many of us seem to be able to focus on only two or three things at a time at most. The media tell us what we should be talking about, and a lot of us respond like dutiful lap dogs.



The situation in Haiti remains one of the biggest humanitarian crises on Earth, yet there's not a word about it on any of the big forums.

[Javaman]

44. Because the news cycle now dictates how american should feel.

Not in the news anymore? what is the next outrage?

Oh they are still having problems? well, to bad, we are on to the next ratings grabbing story.

The "news" no longer is about informing, it's about ratings. Once people understand that, they will turn off faux news or any network news for that matter.