Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Venezuelan government dissimulates protest (cacerolazo) with fireworks during CELAC summit

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
Home » Discuss » Places » Latin America Donate to DU
 
ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 10:01 AM
Original message
Venezuelan government dissimulates protest (cacerolazo) with fireworks during CELAC summit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=567IGqadq2A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez3I9_IM0F8&feature=player_embedded


Fireworks started during Raul Castro's speech.

"La relativa improvisación en el lanzamiento de los cohetes oficialistas se pudo evidenciar cuando el presidente de Cuba, Raúl Castro, hizo una pausa en su intervención en la Celac, visiblemente atento a los sonidos que se emitían desde el exterior del recinto por las detonaciones.

El presidente de la República, Hugo Chávez, tuvo en ese momento que aclarar que las detonaciones eran en honor a la cumbre. Con risa algo nerviosa, Castro aseguró que si era así, podía continuar con su discurso."

http://www.eluniversal.com/nacional-y-politica/111202/cacerolazo-de-protesta-coincidio-con-fuegos-artificiales-oficialistas
Refresh | +2 Recommendations Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. "Chavez starting a war against the mosquitos or what?"
Castro referring to the loud fireworks in the background during his speech (minute 9)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl0qtfXJltM&feature=related
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
14. Heh, timing was horrible. I bet the fireworks went off just to send a message...
...and I doubt there existed a chain of command to say to do it at that time. They heard the protesters, decided to go early.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
2. brief translation summary (mine)
the first two you tube videos you hear the protests where people are banging on metal objects (pots, pans, rejas???) so the government launches a fireworks display to cover up the noise. it happens during Raul's speech where he coincidentally is criticizing the NATO action against his recently departed friend in Lybia.

Raul stops and wonders what is going on and Hugo responds this is part of the CELAC celebration.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I don't usually think of fireworks as an improvisiation.
They may or may not have changed the time for the display, but they have to have planned to have fireworks.
Just saying.

I thoroughly approve of the method of protest though, the OWS people and the drumming come to mind. Noise can be the best of all forms of protest, done right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. i'm sure they planned to have fireworks to drown out the protests
doesn't sound like the visiting participants were aware of that aspect of the summit though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. They are fairly normal at political events anywhere you go?
Edited on Sat Dec-03-11 12:58 PM by bemildred
Kind of militaristic, patriotic, etc. You may think it was all done to drown people out, I mean I don't doubt that would be done, but I'm pretty sure they would set them off anyway. I suppose if you had a program for the event, you could tell when the fireworks were supposed to happen, and if there was no mention of them, then it would be fair to say that they might have been there for "contingencies".
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. the fireworks were more disruptive than the protest noise
at least to the participants at the conference. I doubt the plan was to have them go off during Raul's speech rather it was to occur during the protest whenever that occurred. Chavez is full of shit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. That's the other problem, fireworks don't last long, too expensive.
So all the pot-bangers need to do is take a short break.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Your solicitude for Raul Castro's comfort is quite moving.
lol
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. well, he looks like he is about to keel over n/t
s
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #3
15. That's what makes me think it was early, they would've never timed it for Raul's speech.
That would've been the most asinine decision to make.

I think once it was set up the fireworks people decided that the protesters needed to be sent a message.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Hard to say.
Edited on Sun Dec-04-11 09:49 AM by bemildred
That is at least plausible, I don't know that I find it convincing by itself. Asinine/stupid/criminal behavior in politics is sort of the norm, so I am reluctant to draw conclusions in politics on the same sort of assumptions about self-interest, empiricism, reasonableness and rationality which I would use with ordinary people in real life. It's like watching a movie and being impressed with how good the acting is while still being aware that they are all acting, following a script, and you have to watch to the end to find how it's supposed to come out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. Reuters: Venezuela's Chavez hosts Latin American summit
Venezuela's Chavez hosts Latin American summit
The new group has lofty aims including the creation of a regional reserves fund for economic crises and a body for human rights monitoring.

~snip~
Anti-Chavez protest

Venezuelan opposition activists organized protests after dark, honking horns and beating pots and pans in parts of the city in a traditional "cacerolazo" demonstration.

"During Hugo Chavez's presidency in our country more than 100,000 Venezuelans have died due to crime, thanks to the government's inefficiency in taming crime bands and drug-trafficking," said protest organizer and opposition candidate Maria Corina Machado on her Twitter site.

At the same time, in a colorful demonstration of Venezuela's polarized politics, fireworks went off across the city organized by the government in honor of the meeting.

Reuters

More:
http://www.worldbulletin.net/?aType=haberYazdir&ArticleID=82492&tip=

Odd, isn't it, that an international wire service didn't catch the fact the scheduled fireworks were actually a plot to keep the people at CELAC from hearing the right-wing fascist filth imitating real protesters from other Latin American countries.

Here's the police response to protesters in Miami, Florida:




Medic treating cameraman Carl Kesser, FTAA
protests, Miami, FL, November 20, 2003. Kesser's
son reports he was filming a police attack on
demonstrators when a police-fired bean bag bullet
entered his temple. He now suffers from paralysis on
half his face, is considering a lawsuit, and is grateful
to the medics who helped him.
Photo: www.ftaaimc.org


http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/229085/20111011/occupy-wall-street-protest-movements-leading-to-occupy-wall-street-movement.htm#page2



http://miami.indymedia.org/news/2008/02/10424.php



A protester receives aid from a medical worker
during demonstrations against meetings of the
Free Trade Area of the Americas in Miami
November 20, 2003. The protester said he was
hit by a police baton. Riot police attacked
demonstrators as ministers of the FTAA met in
a nearby hotel. REUTERS/Shannon Stapleton



Police assaulted and arrested protesters, usually without cause, at the FTAA protests.



Police tasered this man at the entrance to a permitted rally sponsored by CTC,
the AFL-CIO, and other groups. Officers then forced CTC members, Steelworkers,
and others to lie face down on the ground at gunpoint.



ETC., ETC.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. I prefer fireworks over police brutality.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Much prettier. Less bloody. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Samba Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
11. seattlepi - AP - Leaders at Americas talks: world economy top worry
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Thanks for the AP article, Samba. How surprising they didn't notice Chavez shot off fireworks
to keep the other leaders from hearing the protesters. -> sarcasm, for sure <-.

If there had been anything at the meeting, anything at all, which could be twisted into an anti-Chavez smear, you can be sure AP and Reuters would both have been wild to print it!

Welcome to D.U., Samba. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
18. The most important event in the history of the Western Hemisphere
in the last century--the formative meeting of CELAC (all Latin American countries represented; U.S. and Canada not invited), and all you are concerned about is misfired celebratory fireworks?

This is the petty, peevish sort of thing that Venezuela's USAID-funded rightwing opposition is notorious for. It's why I find them contemptible. They remind me of the "Tea Party" here. They don't have the intellectual depth to come up with their own platform of positive change and then get all in a snit when they are ignored by everybody except the Corporate Media. The leaders of Latin America, who have worked with such vision and courage toward Latin American independence, prosperity and social justice don't give a hoot about these self-interested rightwingers and their noisemakers--and will drag them kicking and screaming into the 21st Century--Latin America's century!

You want to hang onto the past and the oil elite's looting of Venezuela and U.S. corporate looting of the whole region? Fine. That's your choice. But PLEASE don't bother the rest of us with such a silly post. We have more serious things to think about, such as our Corporate Rulers, having looted Latin America, now looting us.

I say "Hoorah!" for CELAC, for Hugo Chavez and his government, who have played an important role in the formation of CELAC and for all the leaders of Latin America for their vision and courage!

And I also say this: I WISH that there was an opposition party in Venezuela that was worthy of admiration--that had ideas worth considering and people of real stature running for office, and were not just naysayers and obstructionists (like our Republican Party has become here). I DO wish this--but I DON'T see it. It was the Chavez administration that pulled Venezuela out of the long night of poverty and oppression that had gone on for decades prior to it, and, much like FDR's New Deal here, has created a more equitable society ("THE most equal country in Latin America," according to the UN Economic Commission on Latin America and the Caribbean). What's needed is NOT naysaying, NOT whining, NOT focusing on stupid shit like this (how the fireworks were or weren't timed) but legitimate, native (not U.S. funded), local, constructive criticism, in a context of approval of the more just society that Venezuela has become! What I see is well-off crybabies trying to claw their way back into power in order to loot Venezuela all over again and give its resources away to transglobal monsters like Exxon Mobil--so like the rightwingers here!

There is no more important question facing the world right now than balancing the benefits of "the marketplace" with social justice. I DO think that "marketplaces" are beneficial and are a human need. But what we have seen here is the triumph of a "dog eat dog" jungle--not a "marketplace," a jungle of predators--over human needs. Where is the balance of these two needs of human society? The Venezuelan people and their government have been experimenting with what I would call "classic" socialism (with parts of it rather like European socialism) and with strong central but democratic control of resources, as opposed, say, to Brazil, which is much more like the U.S. in the 1960s--regulated capitalism with strong social spending and controls. I say "opposed" but they are not really "opposed"--they are just different models of social justice, and their leaders are very much in accord on most fundamental questions. What is wholesale "opposed" is U.S. predatory capitalism which is bankrupting a good part of the world in order to make the rich richer.


And just about the only region that has been exempt from that bankruptcy is South America and that is entirely due to LEFTIST government policy in the region--with the people of Venezuela and their government in the lead.

What do you or other opposers of the Chavez government have to say to this? What does the rightwing or centrist opposition in Venezuela have to say to this? What do they offer as solutions? I DON'T CARE what you think about the fireworks! And I am sick and tired of the kneejerk opposition to the Chavez government in the Corporate Press and in your posts that NEVER acknowledges the REALITY of Chavez government accomplishments and ALWAYS and ONLY mentions ANYTHING negative that can be stressed or invented. This is NOT reality. The reality is that Chavez is a highly respected leader. That is WHY Latin American governments held this important meeting in Caracas. And the reality is that the Chavez government has won fair and honest elections in Venezuela, time and gain (much like our FDR) for GOOD REASONS. So--given that reality--how do you, a) criticize it in a reasonable and constructive manner, and b) improve upon it (retain its social justice advances, improve upon them and solve problems that the Chavez government has not solved--such as street crime)?

What is the positive program that you are advancing? Is there one? Can you articulate it? It's not enough to be against Chavez. You have to be FOR something else. What is it? Let us see it--so that we can make our own assessment of its merits, on this vital question: Marketplace vs socialism. Or strong central government vs more local control. Or however you want to frame what you are FOR, not just what you are against.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Dec 13th 2024, 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Places » Latin America Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC