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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 12:17 PM
Original message
Brazil's labor minister quits amid allegations of corruption
http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/04/world/americas/brazil-labor-minister-quits/index.html

(CNN) -- Brazil's cabinet lost another minister Sunday with the resignation of Carlo Lupi, who as labor minister became embroiled in an alleged corruption scandal involving non-governmental organizations.

Brazil's official Agencia Brasil news agency reported Sunday that Lupi became the focus of an ethics investigation involving the alleged misuse of public funds and alleged preferential treatment of certain NGOs.

-------------
The investigation against Lupi began after news reports showed him traveling in a private plane paid for by a non-governmental organization that was receiving money through his ministry. Investigations showed several irregularities and alleged kickbacks that benefited several other NGOs.

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He is the seventh cabinet member to resign this year.

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ocpagu Donating Member (154 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. The accusations against Lupi:
Edited on Tue Dec-06-11 12:30 PM by ocpagu
- Taking ride in a private plane.
- Preferential treatment of NGOs.

That would be routine in any public office.

One of the 6 ministers that resigned was in fact fired by Dilma for ideological reasons. The other 5 fell to corruption allegations in the middle of a war involving the government and the press.

None of the allegations have so far been proved. The same will happen to Lupi.

The ones accusing Lupi?

The Brazilian corporate press. Several American lef-wingers know how biased is their press and that there's always some kind of interest when they're involved with politics. And they're right. What many of them don't know is how much more balanced and responsible their press is when compared to Brazil's.

The press in Brazil has been controlled, for almost a century, by four aristocratic and criminal families. The Civitas, the Marinhos, the Frias and the Mesquitas. They are called "PIG", Partido da Imprensa Golpista (Pro-coup Press Party)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partido_da_Imprensa_Golpista

Courrier International, a magazine of French Newspaper "Le Monde", has writen an article about the government x press war in Brazil. You can read it here (in French):

http://www.courrierinternational.com/article/2010/09/30/une-presse-tres-remontee-contre-lula

As the Courrier puts:

"Quatre grandes familles se partagent le contrôle des principaux médias : les Marinho, propriétaires du quotidien de Rio O Globo et de la toute-puissante Télé Globo ; les Mesquita de O Estado de São Paulo ; les Frias, de Folha de São Paulo ; et les Civita, de la maison d’édition Abril, éditeur du principal hebdomadaire, Veja. Ces grandes familles ne se sont jamais remises de l’élection de Lula, ce président peu instruit, venu d’un Etat pauvre et issu du syndicalisme."

"Four big families share among them the control of the most important media: the Marinhos, owners of the daily "O Globo" and the powerful "Globo TV"; the Mesquitas, owners of "O Estado de São Paulo"; the Frias, owners of "Folha de São Paulo"; and the Civitas, owner of the publishing and printing company "Abril", which publishes the most relevant magazine, "Veja". These families have never accepted the election of Lula, a president with little formal education, born in a poor state, and coming from the Unions."

"Recently, the media has launched a campaign against Dilma, Lula's protegée, hoping to take the Worker's Party from the presidency."

As the Brazilian journalist Paulo Henrique Amorim puts, the four families "historically defends coup d'états whenever the Brazilian President is not elected from among members of the ruling elites." They "helped to kill Getúlio Vargas", and continued their "struggle against democracy throughout the governments of Juscelino Kubitscheck and João Goulart, when finally "it openly defended and promoted the Brazilian military coup of March 1964"

The four families supported the military dictactorship, not only by the use of their mediatic apparatus, but also financing repressive militias to kill and torture citizens opposed to the military dictactorship.

The newspaper "Folha de São Paulo" lent the company's cars to be used to transport civilians to session tortures and "disappearings". A former jornalist of the newspaper, Elio Gaspari, has revealed this.

The Globo organizations had an active participation in finacing and supporting the military junta. Until the early 1990s, they still called the military coup of "Glorious Revolution".

The "Abril" publishing house is by far the worst - and the one responsible for the accusations against Lupi. Abril is a facist company. Literally. They are partially owned by NASPERS, the South-African multinational responsible for financing the Apartheid for decades. Abril is involved in dozens of corruption scandals and were expelled from several countries - including Argentina and the United States - for active corruption. They've been financed by the oppoistion party, PSDB, which uses public money to buy almost 1/4 of the company's total output and is also the biggest annunciator of Abril.

These are the ones accusing Lupi of "corruption" for taking a ride in an airplane...

Buy it if you want. I don't.

Lupi, which was appointed by Lula to the Ministry of Labor during his government and helped create 19 MILLION jobs commited two mistakes: making the Worker's Party more popular among the population and defying the status quo of the cast society of Brazil.
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. 6 ministers have left, I don't think Lula had that problem
seems Dilma has alot of corruption problems in her administration.
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ocpagu Donating Member (154 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. The 7 ministers...
Edited on Tue Dec-06-11 12:36 PM by ocpagu
...were already in office during Lula's government. Dilma only keep them in office after she assumed the presidency.

The press didn't dare to attack them while Lula was in government because attacking Lula (which has an approval over 82% among the people) is a terrible mistake in Brazil.

They were just waiting for the opportunity to be more incisive.
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. thanks, should have know better. corruption in latin america is common no matter who the president
jjjjjj
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ocpagu Donating Member (154 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. "corruption in latin america is common no matter who the president"
As opposed to the United States, where lobby is considered "freedom of expression"... sarcasm intended.

You know, corruption doesn't stop being corruption for being legalized.
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. the US is not without corruption. I think lobbying is a poor example
though. there are numerous interests who lobby not just greedy financial and industrial interests.

I think corruption is tolerated on a wider scale in latin america than in the US by the governments there.
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ocpagu Donating Member (154 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Perhaps we have different perceptions of what corruption means.
Edited on Tue Dec-06-11 04:36 PM by ocpagu
You've mentioned the dismiss of 7 ministers of Dilma's government.

The reason behind the resignation of each one of the 6 ministers (Nelson Jobim was dismissed for other reasons) accused of "corruption" is... lobby. In Brazil, we call it "corruption", in the US government it would be a perfect legal practice. The 6 of them would still be in power.

So, we'll definetely have to disagree about that.

Though, I believe you're right when you say there are better examples. The connection Dick Cheney/Hally Burton/War on Iraq shows that quite well.

But... invading a country, killing some dozens of thousands of civilians, overthrowing a government to get profitable oil contracts... is that any better than the "common practice" of corruption in Latin America?

I really don't think so.
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. it sound like our definition of "lobby" is different then
taking kick backs, stealing government funds for personal enrichment, misuse of public funds, giving family members contracts is NOT lobbying.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/Latin-America-Monitor/2011/0805/Brazilian-President-Rousseff-ousts-another-cabinet-minister

http://en.mercopress.com/2011/09/15/fifth-cabinet-minister-drops-out-from-brazilian-cabinet-on-corruption-allegations

as far as I can tell, only the defense minister was dismissed essentially for criticizing other cabinet ministers.

Lobbying in the US means a particular interest attempts to get a congressman to vote or support something that favors that particular interest. It doesn't necessarily imply the corrupt actions I noted above.
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ocpagu Donating Member (154 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. ...
Edited on Tue Dec-06-11 08:29 PM by ocpagu
"taking kick backs, stealing government funds for personal enrichment, misuse of public funds, giving family members contracts is NOT lobbying"

Do you have proofs that the ministers that resigned have done any of that? If you do, please, send them to the Brazilian Judiciary System, because so far, nothing of that has been revealed. All the ministers that resigned did because of suspects of lobby. Including Lupi.


"as far as I can tell, only the defense minister was dismissed essentially for criticizing other cabinet ministers"

Not exactly. But, you really don't care, do you? Your point is bashing other countries to feel better about yours.

"Lobbying in the US means a particular interest attempts to get a congressman to vote or support something that favors that particular interest. It doesn't necessarily imply the corrupt actions I noted above."

I know exactly what "lobby" in US mean, sir. I think you need to find out its REAL meaning: buying votes.

That's corruption, either you admit it or not.
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. so why did they resign if there is no evidence of wrong doing?
anyway, 7 ministers left, most under allegations of corruption, not for lobbying. Lobbying takes many forms. it can mean industry providing perks or money to a politicians campaign or an outright illegal bribe. money for a vote. However, it can also take the form of mobilizing constituents for or against a particular cause, and is perfectly legititimate, and in fact, an exercise of democracy. people lobby for worthy causes and give money for them all the time so "lobby" isn't a dirty word.

lobbying is a way for constituents to influence a politician or policy maker to a particular cause. nothing wrong with the people and even certain interests lobbying leaders to vote a particular way. hell, politicians are supposed to represent their constituents interests, not their own.

on the other hand, corruption is a completely negative connotation. I didn't see any of those ministers from Brazil accused of "lobbying", they are accused of corruption.
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. p.s. here are your words that confound me
"All the ministers that resigned did because of suspects of lobby." Suspects of lobby makes no sense to me. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that the translation of lobby in Portuguese is negative, just like corruption is always negative in English. but lobbying is not an inherently negative word or activity.
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ocpagu Donating Member (154 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. They resigned to spare the government of the political use of these supposed corruption scandals...
... but none of the ministers is currently facing any kind of legal charges. None of them is being investigated. Why? Because each one of the accusations ended up being... only accusations. They were not made by officials, they were not based in proofs of any kind, they were not presented to prosecutors or to fiscalization agencies. ALL of them were done by an oppositionist press which has the terrible habit of comndening people before judgement.

All the 6 ministers that resigned have served for years in their cabinets under Lula's government. And no accusations were ever made against them in this period. So, what happened? They've all decided to become corrupted at the sime time in the following year after Lula left the government? Don't you find that at least weird?
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I also find it weird that they all resigned this year
are you saying there is nothing to the corruption charges? if there isn't, that again begs the question, why did they resign. anyway, you tell me, does Brazil have an adequately independent justice department that would investigate allegations of officials of the current administration? if not, then here is a word that gives an answer to your doubt: impunity.
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ocpagu Donating Member (154 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Now you're questioning law enforcement in Brazil?
Edited on Wed Dec-07-11 12:50 AM by ocpagu
You see, I could take moral lessons of Brazil (or any Latin American country, for that matter) being corrupted or suffering with an "impunity culture" from citizens from most countries. Yours DEFINETELY is not among them.

The Dick Cheney/Halliburton/Oil looting/Iraq War episode is probably the most disgusting act of corruption/deception/looby (all together) practiced by a top official in the history of mankind.

Was Dick Cheney arrested? Was he prosecuted? Was he at least investigated?

What about the Wall Street gangsters and their fabricated financial crisis which caused damages in global proportions?

Were they prosecuted? Were they arrested? Did they have their money confiscated?

Or were they granted public money by US government to pay for their irresponsability and save their personal patrimony, at the cost of the working class?

What about Bush?

Seriously. Get a grip.
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. it was Bush's call, he has the ultimate responsibility
that's why we voted for and support Obama here. at least some of us.
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